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  #1  
Old 07-07-2010, 12:49 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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  #2  
Old 07-07-2010, 02:53 PM
chiwhisoxx chiwhisoxx is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

I know Dave reads (and occassionally responds) to comments here, so I'm going to throw this out here and maybe he'll take the bait. I won't make this a debate about your own ideology, or if you should have been covering the beat you were covering, because that's tired ground that frankly wasn't that interesting in the first place.

What I think the more interesting question is relates to the beat itself. Why does the post have a reporter who just follows conservatives? I'm pretty sure they don't have a reporter who follows liberals, or libertarians, or anyone else. So why give conservatives this sort of gorillas in the mist attitude? It reinforces conservative notions about media bias, by making people think there is such an ideology gap between the paper and conservatives that they need to bring in a special reporter just to investigate and report on these strange creatures.

I don't fault you for taking the job, working at the Washington Post is the opportunity of a lifetime for a reporter. But ultimately, was that job one that needed to even exist in the first place?
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  #3  
Old 07-07-2010, 04:20 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
What I think the more interesting question is relates to the beat itself. Why does the post have a reporter who just follows conservatives? I'm pretty sure they don't have a reporter who follows liberals, or libertarians, or anyone else. So why give conservatives this sort of gorillas in the mist attitude? It reinforces conservative notions about media bias, by making people think there is such an ideology gap between the paper and conservatives that they need to bring in a special reporter just to investigate and report on these strange creatures.
Really well put. It's a very good topic for discussion, IMHO, although I'm sure that many around here will not understand why people so abhorently strange, childish, racist, deluded and mentally unhinged wouldn't obviously be a fertile subject of liberal investigation.

I mean how the hell do those conservatives find the fucking nerve to even get up in the morning??

Last edited by badhatharry; 07-07-2010 at 04:32 PM..
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  #4  
Old 07-07-2010, 04:28 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
Really well put. It's a very good topic for discussion, IMHO, although I'm sure that many around here will not understand why people so abhorently strange, childish, racist, deluded and mentally unhinged wouldn't obviously be a fertile subject of liberal investigation.

just sayin'
I, for one, do think that it's an interesting question. Would they be better off with reporters covering both the Conservative Movement and liberal activists in a semi-anthropological way? I think that Weigel's beat is simultaneously interesting, informative, and problematic in exactly the way chiwisoxx describes. Hopefully Weigel will hop in here and share his thoughts on this.
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  #5  
Old 07-07-2010, 05:18 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
Really well put. It's a very good topic for discussion, IMHO, although I'm sure that many around here will not understand why people so abhorently strange, childish, racist, deluded and mentally unhinged wouldn't obviously be a fertile subject of liberal investigation.

I mean how the hell do those conservatives find the fucking nerve to even get up in the morning??
Let's not forget two things, while you and Chi are feeling sorry for your movement:

(1) The WaPo didn't have anyone on this beat prior to Weigel, so it's probably entirely inaccurate for Chi and you to suggest that the WaPo "had to" or "has to" have a beat that is dedicated to coverage of ultraconservative extremists.

It's true that many years ago, the WaPo hired serial liar and plagiarist Ben Domenech to blog from the wingnutty fringe. But his brief tenure, followed years later by Weigel's brief tenure, hardly support the original implication that the WaPo is determined to "have a reporter who just follows conservatives, ... reinforc[ing] conservative notions about media bias, by making people think there is such an ideology gap between the paper and conservatives that they need to bring in a special reporter just to investigate and report on these strange creatures." The premise is false, so any conclusions you come to using this premise will also be false.

(2) What's even more interesting is that conservatives have been complaining for a long time that the WaPo doesn't have a reporting covering the far-out rightwing fringe. This is the first time I've ever hear a conservative (or two) complain that their movement is being covered. Part of the reason, perhaps, that the WaPo felt compelled to fill this niche is because so many self-pitying conservatives have been complaining that it hasn't dedicated a reporter to cover them.
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  #6  
Old 07-07-2010, 05:44 PM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Let's not forget two things, while you and Chi are feeling sorry for your movement:
I don't feel sorry for the conservative movement, but thanks for your concern.

Last edited by badhatharry; 07-07-2010 at 05:52 PM..
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  #7  
Old 07-08-2010, 11:15 PM
TwinSwords TwinSwords is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Originally Posted by badhatharry View Post
I don't feel sorry for the conservative movement, but thanks for your concern.
But it is interesting, don't you think, that conservatives have so perfected their self-concept as victims that literally no matter what the WaPo does, they are exhibiting "liberal media bias?" When the WaPo didn't have someone covering conservatives, and when they did, it "proved" their bias and further reinforced your movement's self-concept as a bunch of pitiable victims.

Hey, it works! Do what works! Feeling all sorry for yourselves and acting like a bunch of abused children has been hugely effective at rallying the Republican base. I hope you at least stop and smell the flowers once in a while, though. You've piled up a lot of accomplishments in the last ten years, from killing a bunch of innocent women and children in Iraq and Afghanistan, to undermining the American middle class, to enriching the rich, to freeing corporations from the burden of regulation, to packing the judiciary with radical conservative extremists (to name but a few of your accomplishments!), conservatives have an enormous record they can be proud of. And it's only a matter of time before you get back in power and can continue the program uninterrupted, with even greater vigor than before.
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  #8  
Old 07-10-2010, 07:49 PM
rfrobison rfrobison is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Originally Posted by TwinSwords View Post
I hope you at least stop and smell the flowers once in a while, though. You've piled up a lot of accomplishments in the last ten years, from killing a bunch of innocent women and children in Iraq and Afghanistan, to undermining the American middle class, to enriching the rich, to freeing corporations from the burden of regulation, to packing the judiciary with radical conservative extremists (to name but a few of your accomplishments!), conservatives have an enormous record they can be proud of. And it's only a matter of time before you get back in power and can continue the program uninterrupted, with even greater vigor than before.
Fair and balanced? TS reports, you decide.
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  #9  
Old 07-10-2010, 08:17 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Originally Posted by rfrobison View Post
Fair and balanced? TS reports, you decide.
That seems a bizarre standard to demand on a forum of commentary such as this one.

I'd add that if it is going to be your new standard, your context-changing partial quoting (lacking an ellipsis, to boot) left a little something to be desired.
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  #10  
Old 07-10-2010, 08:32 PM
rfrobison rfrobison is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
That seems a bizarre standard to demand on a forum of commentary such as this one.

I'd add that if it is going to be your new standard, your context-changing partial quoting (lacking an ellipsis, to boot) left a little something to be desired.
That's fair, I suppose (your criticism of my criticism). It's just that I get a bit tired of hearing from the other side that Republicans/conservatives are motivated by greed, bloodlust, etc., and that to the extent that we as Americans face two difficult wars and a lousy economy that my side would view those things as "accomplishments" is, well, just a tad unfair.

Were I to present such a caricature of what Obama and his supporters want for the country (e.g., bankrupting the country, destroying the free enterprise system, apologizing to the world for America's sins, real and imagined...) I would promptly be written off as totally unreasonable, and justly so.
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Last edited by rfrobison; 07-10-2010 at 08:35 PM.. Reason: missing comma; clarity
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  #11  
Old 07-10-2010, 10:14 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Originally Posted by rfrobison View Post
That's fair, I suppose (your criticism of my criticism). It's just that I get a bit tired of hearing from the other side that Republicans/conservatives are motivated by greed, bloodlust, etc., and that to the extent that we as Americans face two difficult wars and a lousy economy that my side would view those things as "accomplishments" is, well, just a tad unfair.

Were I to present such a caricature of what Obama and his supporters want for the country (e.g., bankrupting the country, destroying the free enterprise system, apologizing to the world for America's sins, real and imagined...) I would promptly be written off as totally unreasonable, and justly so.
Then your second paragraph would have been the way to frame your critique.

Not that I think the two are at all comparable, mind -- Twin's view is at worst a bit of an exaggeration and a bit of an unfair concentration of blame on one side only; what you list is in the first two instances sheer lunacy and in the third, a warped complaint about Obama doing the right thing.
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  #12  
Old 07-10-2010, 10:29 PM
Whatfur
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
Twin's view is at worst a bit of an exaggeration and a bit of an unfair concentration of blame on one side only;

So??? Unfair and unbalanced? You decide. ???
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  #13  
Old 07-10-2010, 10:49 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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So??? Unfair and unbalanced? You decide. ???
Try to keep up, bonehead. The complaint I originally made to rfr is that there is no requirement, nor should there be, that someone be "fair and balanced" when opining in a comments forum.

You do know what opining means, don't you? Would you like some help learning how to look words up, on the Internet? Think about it. It might help you learn how to read for comprehension.

By the way, I can't wait until the next time you start whimpering about me "following" you around this site. Your behavior in that light is nothing short of hilarious. What's the matter, you sprang a link in your imaginary wife, and you got nothing else to do?
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  #14  
Old 07-10-2010, 11:03 PM
Whatfur
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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... bonehead. ...
How's that medicine taste? Haha.
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  #15  
Old 07-10-2010, 11:22 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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How's that medicine taste? Haha.
Old, stupid, and emulating Lyle is no way to go through life, 'fur.
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  #16  
Old 07-10-2010, 11:24 PM
Whatfur
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Old, stupid, and emulating Lyle is no way to go through life, 'fur.
Lyle has never struck me as being old or stupid and I am not sure where that leaves things after the many embarrassments he has handed you.

Last edited by Whatfur; 07-10-2010 at 11:27 PM..
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  #17  
Old 07-10-2010, 11:26 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Lyle has never struck me as being old or stupid.
You're half right, but those remarks weren't meant to describe Lyle, I'm sure.
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  #18  
Old 07-10-2010, 11:27 PM
Whatfur
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You're half right, but those remarks weren't meant to describe Lyle, I'm sure.
OMG....you ARE fucking brilliant!!
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  #19  
Old 07-11-2010, 12:08 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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You're half right, but those remarks weren't meant to describe Lyle, I'm sure.
Correct. Lyle is young, not old. But the stupid, the hahas, and the declaring himself the victor? That's what 'fur, sad as it is to say, has fallen to.
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  #20  
Old 07-11-2010, 12:20 AM
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Correct. Lyle is young, not old. But the stupid, the hahas, and the declaring himself the victor? That's what 'fur, sad as it is to say, has fallen to.
I just realized he must be going on sixth grade now!
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  #21  
Old 07-11-2010, 12:26 AM
Whatfur
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I just realized he must be going on sixth grade now!
Always a good one.
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  #22  
Old 07-11-2010, 02:23 AM
rfrobison rfrobison is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

In light of the exchange that followed, I'm feeling a bit of poster's remorse.
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  #23  
Old 07-11-2010, 02:43 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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In light of the exchange that followed, I'm feeling a bit of poster's remorse.
Nah, don't. There's nothing to be done about a clown like 'fur except to ignore him or riff on him. And further, you should always apply the first when thinking about what you'd like to say to anyone else.

TSOF's life appears to have dwindled to calling me and a couple of other people gay and claiming that we're always "losing." To worry about what a sad sack like that might say is pointless, and worse, if you do let him inhibit you because of his antics, you are in effect rewarding him for being a dolt.
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  #24  
Old 07-11-2010, 10:34 AM
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In light of the exchange that followed, I'm feeling a bit of poster's remorse.
I apologize. As usual, where Queef is concerned, a non-partisan reading of what transpired will isolate the culprit and would unveil the first insult. His arm flailing at the end about me is true to form yet holds little truth... except that which lies in his own imagination.

Most of the last couple years I have attempted to ignore this oddity by either not responding to his freakish following of me or by other means to disuade him from stalking me and my participation here. Obviously, it hasn't worked. Yesterday, I decided to play his game for a short while and respond to most every post he threw out. Unlike him however, my responses (like here) initially did nothing but question his input, provided articles counter to his supposed points, or provided validation to his constant hypocrisy and projection. As you can see, when the shoe was on the other foot...he doesn't handle it very well.

I am going to once again attempt to ignore the little cretin. Any help in in this quest will be appreciated... but not expected.
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  #25  
Old 07-11-2010, 01:30 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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I apologize. As usual, where Queef is concerned, a non-partisan reading of what transpired will isolate the culprit and would unveil the first insult. His arm flailing at the end about me is true to form yet holds little truth... except that which lies in his own imagination.

Most of the last couple years I have attempted to ignore this oddity by either not responding to his freakish following of me or by other means to disuade him from stalking me and my participation here. Obviously, it hasn't worked. Yesterday, I decided to play his game for a short while and respond to most every post he threw out. Unlike him however, my responses (like here) initially did nothing but question his input, provided articles counter to his supposed points, or provided validation to his constant hypocrisy and projection. As you can see, when the shoe was on the other foot...he doesn't handle it very well.

I am going to once again attempt to ignore the little cretin. Any help in in this quest will be appreciated... but not expected.
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  #26  
Old 07-11-2010, 06:18 PM
ledocs ledocs is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

I have said before that I respect Frum but might hesitate to socialize with him. Now I'm closer to thinking that I might like to have a drink or two with him. Major props to him for saying that Bush-Cheney left the USA in a terrible mess. I like Frum much better on domestic than on foreign policy, as far as I can tell. He seems sort of like a refugee from the Nixon Administration (excluding for the moment Nixon's paranoid excesses) on domestic policy, and he reminds me of Herbert Stein. I suspect that the worst thing about Frum is his take on Israel-Palestine, he's probably Iranian bomb-obsessed, and so on.

This reminds me. I have a friend from grad school who claims to be a conservative, he only follows network news and reads "The Weekly Standard" and "National Review." It all seems to me to be an act of a kind, a persona he has adopted to drive his deconstructionist friends and colleagues crazy. But anyway, the last time I talked to him, he was praising Obama's foreign policy, and the Afghanistan policy in particular. This let me know that Obama was not doing a very good job in foreign policy. Similarly, the fact that I have a certain respect for David Frum cannot possibly be good for Frum's standing among so-called "conservatives."
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  #27  
Old 07-11-2010, 06:22 PM
PreppyMcPrepperson PreppyMcPrepperson is offline
 
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I have said before that I respect Frum but might hesitate to socialize with him. Now I'm closer to thinking that I might like to have a drink or two with him. Major props to him for saying that Bush-Cheney left the USA in a terrible mess. I like Frum much better on domestic than on foreign policy, as far as I can tell. He seems sort of like a refugee from the Nixon Administration (excluding for the moment Nixon's paranoid excesses) on domestic policy, and he reminds me of Herbert Stein. I suspect that the worst thing about Frum is his take on Israel-Palestine, he's probably Iranian bomb-obsessed, and so on.
Agreed.
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  #28  
Old 07-11-2010, 11:00 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Agreed.
I don't. Frum seems like a likable enough guy in some ways, and pretty smart in many ways, but it is a serious mistake to forget what he was like as part of the Bush/Cheney effort to sell the invasion of Iraq. And, as the neocons dreamed back then, the goal to impose Democracy on the entire Middle East, by whatever means necessary.

He has apologized for a bit of that, and acknowledged failure in execution in a bit more. But he has not come close to realizing how wrong his mindset was back then, nor has he come to grips with how much blood is on his hands, and as far as my inclination to bet goes, I would say his ludicrously one-sided view of I/P is the way he's decided he can continue to push his view of the neocon agenda and still be accepted in polite society.

As to the second part:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
This reminds me. I have a friend from grad school who claims to be a conservative, he only follows network news and reads "The Weekly Standard" and "National Review." It all seems to me to be an act of a kind, a persona he has adopted to drive his deconstructionist friends and colleagues crazy. But anyway, the last time I talked to him, he was praising Obama's foreign policy, and the Afghanistan policy in particular. This let me know that Obama was not doing a very good job in foreign policy. Similarly, the fact that I have a certain respect for David Frum cannot possibly be good for Frum's standing among so-called "conservatives."
I'm sorry if I'm missing something here, ledocs, but this sounds distressingly simplistic, especially coming from you. Evaluating something as complex as whether David Frum is worthy of respect, let alone the "job in foreign policy" Obama is doing, based solely on friend-of-my-friend/enemy-of-my-enemy identification? I expect much better from you than being susceptible to such yahooism or Villager-style superficiality.

I would like to think you were speaking tongue in cheek in the above.
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  #29  
Old 07-11-2010, 11:38 PM
PreppyMcPrepperson PreppyMcPrepperson is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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I don't. Frum seems like a likable enough guy in some ways, and pretty smart in many ways, but it is a serious mistake to forget what he was like as part of the Bush/Cheney effort to sell the invasion of Iraq. And, as the neocons dreamed back then, the goal to impose Democracy on the entire Middle East, by whatever means necessary.

He has apologized for a bit of that, and acknowledged failure in execution in a bit more. But he has not come close to realizing how wrong his mindset was back then, nor has he come to grips with how much blood is on his hands, and as far as my inclination to bet goes, I would say his ludicrously one-sided view of I/P is the way he's decided he can continue to push his view of the neocon agenda and still be accepted in polite society.
Nobody's forgetting his role in that administration. Ledocs was differentiating between his domestic views (often compelling) and his foreign policy views (often horrid). I second that distinction.
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Old 07-11-2010, 11:51 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Originally Posted by PreppyMcPrepperson View Post
Nobody's forgetting his role in that administration. Ledocs was differentiating between his domestic views (often compelling) and his foreign policy views (often horrid). I second that distinction.
Eh, I think that's a useful distinction, but on domestic policy, he reminds me of Brink Lindsey. Both are smart guys that think seriously about things, but in both cases they are attractive because they are exceptions to a general rule of craziness and dishonesty more than on their own merits.

For example, Frum recently caught the attention of the Liberal blogosphere with a post in which he admitted that the US lags other OECD countries on many social metrics. Accepting the reality of empirically observable facts is a good start, but it shouldn't be so rare on the Conservative side that Liberals will lionize anyone that does so.
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  #31  
Old 07-12-2010, 12:05 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Eh, I think that's a useful distinction, but on domestic policy, he reminds me of Brink Lindsey. Both are smart guys that think seriously about things, but in both cases they are attractive because they are exceptions to a general rule of craziness and dishonesty more than on their own merits.

For example, Frum recently caught the attention of the Liberal blogosphere with a post in which he admitted that the US lags other OECD countries on many social metrics. Accepting the reality of empirically observable facts is a good start, but it shouldn't be so rare on the Conservative side that Liberals will lionize anyone that does so.
Well said. We are in the position, with apologies to Mr. Johnson, of applauding a couple of dogs with red collars for their ability to walk on four legs.
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  #32  
Old 07-12-2010, 12:06 AM
Ocean Ocean is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Originally Posted by Don Zeko View Post
Eh, I think that's a useful distinction, but on domestic policy, he reminds me of Brink Lindsey. Both are smart guys that think seriously about things, but in both cases they are attractive because they are exceptions to a general rule of craziness and dishonesty more than on their own merits.

For example, Frum recently caught the attention of the Liberal blogosphere with a post in which he admitted that the US lags other OECD countries on many social metrics. Accepting the reality of empirically observable facts is a good start, but it shouldn't be so rare on the Conservative side that Liberals will lionize anyone that does so.
Good points. It's sad indeed.
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  #33  
Old 07-11-2010, 11:57 PM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Nobody's forgetting his role in that administration.
Not as long as I have anything to say about it, that's for sure!

Quote:
Ledocs was differentiating between his domestic views (often compelling) and his foreign policy views (often horrid). I second that distinction.
Someone informed -- like you -- knows enough to see the distinction. Me, being a card-carrying {nanny-stater | liberal skeptic} <-- your choice, I'm less confident in everybody else's ability to pick up on the subtle ways ledocs made the distinction, let alone trusting in their awareness and memory. Especially in light of the never-ending effort by the right to rewrite history. So, sometimes I am going to jump in to restate the obvious (to you) more obviously.
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  #34  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:40 AM
rfrobison rfrobison is offline
 
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Default Musings on Frum

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Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
I have said before that I respect Frum but might hesitate to socialize with him. Now I'm closer to thinking that I might like to have a drink or two with him. Major props to him for saying that Bush-Cheney left the USA in a terrible mess. I like Frum much better on domestic than on foreign policy, as far as I can tell. He seems sort of like a refugee from the Nixon Administration (excluding for the moment Nixon's paranoid excesses) on domestic policy, and he reminds me of Herbert Stein. I suspect that the worst thing about Frum is his take on Israel-Palestine, he's probably Iranian bomb-obsessed, and so on.

This reminds me. I have a friend from grad school who claims to be a conservative, he only follows network news and reads "The Weekly Standard" and "National Review." It all seems to me to be an act of a kind, a persona he has adopted to drive his deconstructionist friends and colleagues crazy. But anyway, the last time I talked to him, he was praising Obama's foreign policy, and the Afghanistan policy in particular. This let me know that Obama was not doing a very good job in foreign policy. Similarly, the fact that I have a certain respect for David Frum cannot possibly be good for Frum's standing among so-called "conservatives."
There you guys go again, praising with faint damns. Best we can hope for, I suppose.
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Last edited by rfrobison; 07-12-2010 at 05:52 AM.. Reason: to make a little less self-absorbed...
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  #35  
Old 07-08-2010, 04:06 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx View Post
[...] Why does the post have a reporter who just follows conservatives? I'm pretty sure they don't have a reporter who follows liberals, or libertarians, or anyone else. So why give conservatives this sort of gorillas in the mist attitude? It reinforces conservative notions about media bias, by making people think there is such an ideology gap between the paper and conservatives that they need to bring in a special reporter just to investigate and report on these strange creatures.

I don't fault you for taking the job, working at the Washington Post is the opportunity of a lifetime for a reporter. But ultimately, was that job one that needed to even exist in the first place?
That's a fair question, and I like your "gorillas in the mist" (midst? ) way of putting it, but as Twin has already noted, I think a big part of the reason for the creation of Right Now was that WaPo management had been taking a lot of heat from movement conservatives (teabaggers, especially, most recently) that they never got covered by anyone, except perhaps superficially and in stereotypically unflattering ways.

I think it is also true that the teabagger phenomenon became one of those Things that big media outfits love to focus on. (Remember the obsession with PUMAs, back in the day?)

There might have been other motivations, as well, and say what you will about the WaPo being correct about any of them, but I do think the end result -- hiring a reporter dedicated to that beat -- was very useful.

As to why a similar thing doesn't exist for the far left, or however you want to characterize the mirror image of the people Dave Weigel was covering, I'd say three things.

1. The WaPo, cringing as they always do in the face of non-stop howling from rightwing blowards, are sure to think "if we did a cover-the-left blog, we'd really get an earful about promoting our Liberal Agenda."

2. The part of the population that is appreciably to the left of the center-left to center-right segment of the spectrum that the WaPo usually covers is not nearly as organized, nor do they have a relatively simple set of issues they care about. The thing about the left in America since maybe shortly after the Vietnam War started winding down is that it is, to first approximation, a bunch of disparate groups, each of whom care strongly about one or a very few issues, and tend not to have more than a casual interest in what other groups most care about. For example, the environmentally-minded people, the anti-war/anti-imperial crowd, the social justice crowd (which is further split into, say, gay rights, feminist issues, immigrants' rights, haves-vs-have-nots, etc.), and so on. Most of these people will share, more or less, similar outlooks on the others' core issues, but they're not motivated to do much about them. More to the point, they are not going to come together and identify a short list of things they'll all be willing to rally around, and even if they did for a short bit, it wouldn't last. Compare the unity of purpose when getting Obama elected to the circular firing squads that formed shortly after, over Gitmo and HCR, for example, to see this.

3. On a related note, the leftosphere already does a lot of covering itself, in effect, and is much more advanced than the rightosphere when it comes to matters of policy, wonkery, and agitation along these lines. The rightosphere has some people who aren't doing nothing but griping about Obama, Media Bias, and how mean liberals are to RealAmericans, but they are nowhere near as well-developed as the leftosphere on this score. Tie that into a concern with "what do our readers want?" and I suspect WaPo's management would conclude a "Left Now" blog would gain them very few new eyeballs. To put it only very slightly cynically, the activist Right does a lot more yelling about things like getting media coverage, and the activist Left has long since written off the corporate media, and especially the WaPo, as beneath their interest.
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Last edited by bjkeefe; 07-08-2010 at 06:36 AM.. Reason: typo (thanks, Twin!)
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  #36  
Old 07-11-2010, 02:28 AM
rfrobison rfrobison is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Originally Posted by bjkeefe View Post
That's a fair question, and I like your "gorillas in the mist" (midst? ) way of putting it, but as Twin has already noted, I think a big part of the reason for the creation of Right Now was that WaPo management had been taking a lot of heat from movement conservatives (teabaggers, especially, most recently) that they never got covered by anyone, except perhaps superficially and in stereotypically unflattering ways.

I think it is also true that the teabagger phenomenon became one of those Things that big media outfits love to focus on. (Remember the obsession with PUMAs, back in the day?)

There might have been other motivations, as well, and say what you will about the WaPo being correct about any of them, but I do think the end result -- hiring a reporter dedicated to that beat -- was very useful.

As to why a similar thing doesn't exist for the far left, or however you want to characterize the mirror image of the people Dave Weigel was covering, I'd say three things.

1. The WaPo, cringing as they always do in the face of non-stop howling from rightwing blowards, are sure to think "if we did a cover-the-left blog, we'd really get an earful about promoting our Liberal Agenda."

2. The part of the population that is appreciably to the left of the center-left to center-right segment of the spectrum that the WaPo usually covers is not nearly as organized, nor do they have a relatively simple set of issues they care about. The thing about the left in America since maybe shortly after the Vietnam War started winding down is that it is, to first approximation, a bunch of disparate groups, each of whom care strongly about one or a very few issues, and tend not to have more than a casual interest in what other groups most care about. For example, the environmentally-minded people, the anti-war/anti-imperial crowd, the social justice crowd (which is further split into, say, gay rights, feminist issues, immigrants' rights, haves-vs-have-nots, etc.), and so on. Most of these people will share, more or less, similar outlooks on the others' core issues, but they're not motivated to do much about them. More to the point, they are not going to come together and identify a short list of things they'll all be willing to rally around, and even if they did for a short bit, it wouldn't last. Compare the unity of purpose when getting Obama elected to the circular firing squads that formed shortly after, over Gitmo and HCR, for example, to see this.

3. On a related note, the leftosphere already does a lot of covering itself, in effect, and is much more advanced than the rightosphere when it comes to matters of policy, wonkery, and agitation along these lines. The rightosphere has some people who aren't doing nothing but griping about Obama, Media Bias, and how mean liberals are to RealAmericans, but they are nowhere near as well-developed as the leftosphere on this score. Tie that into a concern with "what do our readers want?" and I suspect WaPo's management would conclude a "Left Now" blog would gain them very few new eyeballs. To put it only very slightly cynically, the activist Right does a lot more yelling about things like getting media coverage, and the activist Left has long since written off the corporate media, and especially the WaPo, as beneath their interest.
Interesting analysis.
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  #37  
Old 07-11-2010, 02:30 AM
bjkeefe bjkeefe is offline
 
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Default Re: Special Unemployment Edition (Dave Weigel & David Frum)

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Originally Posted by rfrobison View Post
Interesting analysis.
Thx.
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  #38  
Old 07-08-2010, 07:27 PM
ImmRefDotCom ImmRefDotCom is offline
 
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Default All About Weigel

He wasn't really covering conservatives, he was just going after the powerless freaks (or what the establishment thinks of as freaks). He never took on anyone with any power and in fact before the WaPo he worked for the Soros/Rockefeller-funded TWI and before then he worked for the Kochtopus' own Reason Mag. At the latter establishment, I used to point out that the only public figure he'd dared ask a tough question of was Larry Sinclair, and that continued to hold true during his TWI and WaPo years (er, months).

And, his WaPo gig was actually better for his opponents because he was more constrained there than elsewhere; he's probably going to be able to do more damage to the 'partiers at MSNBC (even if only a few dozen people watch it).

For more, see my posts about Dave Weigel, which go back to 2006:

1. He's repeatedly misled about one issue in particular, but it happens to be an issue that the establishment has also repeatedly misled about so you won't hear about that from anyone else. Yet, if - unlike Weigel - you endeavor to understand my point and the difference between evidence and proof, you'll see that he's misled about the facts of that matter.

2. He wrote about me on his personal site and then refused to approve a comment I left pointing out how he's wrong. Yes, he's that low.
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  #39  
Old 07-08-2010, 07:36 PM
AemJeff AemJeff is offline
 
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Default Re: All About Weigel

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Originally Posted by ImmRefDotCom View Post
He wasn't really covering conservatives, he was just going after the powerless freaks (or what the establishment thinks of as freaks). He never took on anyone with any power...
You mean powerless freaks like Rush or Palin?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/rig...ves_elton.html

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/rig...unprofess.html

I detect a personal grudge.
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  #40  
Old 07-08-2010, 10:25 PM
ImmRefDotCom ImmRefDotCom is offline
 
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Default Re: All About Weigel

1. Obviously, I'm not a Weigel fan. When he first joined Reason I tried to get him to actually fight the power; instead he quickly revealed himself to be just a hack.

2. Rush and Palin do have power and can get things done. However, the type of power I referred to - the type that Weigel refuses to take on - is establishment (including Beltway) power.

Any old hack - like Weigel - feels free to criticize Palin or Rush because they know they aren't going to get pushback from those who cut their checks.

However, you'll never find Weigel doing things like this or asking even just one of the many other questions I've since come up with for others. He won't do things like that because he knows what would happen: he'd wind up working in a gas station.
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