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  #1  
Old 05-18-2010, 04:57 PM
Bloggingheads Bloggingheads is offline
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Default What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

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  #2  
Old 05-18-2010, 05:26 PM
Freddie Freddie is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

"Best city" just doesn't mean anything. Cities are far too complex and diverse and multivariate to be ranked.
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  #3  
Old 05-19-2010, 01:28 AM
listener listener is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
"Best city" just doesn't mean anything. Cities are far too complex and diverse and multivariate to be ranked.
Agreed. Best City, Best Picture, Best 100 Albums of All Time, Best in Show, Best Rutabaga, Best Human, it's all silliness. (USA!! USA!! USA!! USA!!1!)

This from one of those obnoxious lifelong, native New Yorkers, BTW.
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Last edited by listener; 05-19-2010 at 01:34 AM..
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  #4  
Old 05-18-2010, 06:16 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/282...0:48&out=72:35

In other news: Water is wet!

No Conor, this small point isn't news or a problem for most people. Especially since most people don't live vicariously through the imagery of Hollywood sitcoms or NY mediated imagery. Many of us have crisscrossed the nation and are depressed by the visual and architectural sameness of cities large and small alike. That isn't to say that uniqueness of place or singular experiences don't abound. But your ill defined complaint, sounds more like a trumped up conservative lament for outside the beltway boosterism.
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  #5  
Old 05-18-2010, 06:23 PM
osmium osmium is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

Growing up in a small town in Tennessee, I was obsessed with the concept of a "block." I had a book for children to fill out about their surroundings, and it asked me all these questions about "how many blocks to the fire department" and "how many blocks to the park." I figured out that a block meant the distance between two cross streets, so I counted all these out in my head while in the car. The police station is 13 blocks (which means nothing since some of those blocks are several miles, and some are literally a few feet).

Now years later I feel a little superior to people in New York who understand block living, but not odometer living as well. It's like I can read two languages and they only know one. The New York (or just city-based) centrism of media has worked in my favor--or at least I see it that way, because it made childhood so much more confusing. As it should be.

(Oh wait, this forum isn't about me?)

Last edited by osmium; 05-18-2010 at 06:25 PM..
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  #6  
Old 05-19-2010, 02:58 PM
paagle paagle is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

Traveling in Montana I got disoriented in Missoula. We had been driving on country roads making very few decisions, then suddenly overpasses and underpasses and where the heck am I going? So I pulled off the road and asked directions. The woman said just get back on the road there and stay on it until you get to Joe's Corner, then take a right.

So we get back on the road and pretty soon we're leaving Missoula. We never saw Joe's Corner, but we could see on the map that we're on the right road.

100 miles later, having forgot all about Joe's Corner, my friend in the co-pilot seat says "See the road up there? Take a right at it." There's a gas station at the intersection and nothing else. As we get closer I see its called "Joe's Corner." I thought "Joe's Corner, Joe's Corner, why does that sound familiar? Holy expletive that's where the woman said to take a right!" She'd said it so casually: "Just go down that road and take a right at Joe's Corner." Apparently that it was 100 miles down that road wasn't worth mentioning!

We had a great laugh about it, and it continues to remind me how people can have such different senses of scale. In the city if I give directions and you're supposed to go straight for more than a mile or two I feel compelled to say "stay on the road for X miles." Otherwise folks get nervous that they missed a turn. I can see why that's not necessary in Montana.

So now this little sub-thread tangent is about you and me!
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  #7  
Old 05-19-2010, 04:41 PM
graz graz is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by paagle View Post
Traveling in Montana I got disoriented in Missoula. We had been driving on country roads making very few decisions, then suddenly overpasses and underpasses and where the heck am I going? So I pulled off the road and asked directions. The woman said just get back on the road there and stay on it until you get to Joe's Corner, then take a right.

So we get back on the road and pretty soon we're leaving Missoula. We never saw Joe's Corner, but we could see on the map that we're on the right road.

100 miles later, having forgot all about Joe's Corner, my friend in the co-pilot seat says "See the road up there? Take a right at it." There's a gas station at the intersection and nothing else. As we get closer I see its called "Joe's Corner." I thought "Joe's Corner, Joe's Corner, why does that sound familiar? Holy expletive that's where the woman said to take a right!" She'd said it so casually: "Just go down that road and take a right at Joe's Corner." Apparently that it was 100 miles down that road wasn't worth mentioning!

We had a great laugh about it, and it continues to remind me how people can have such different senses of scale. In the city if I give directions and you're supposed to go straight for more than a mile or two I feel compelled to say "stay on the road for X miles." Otherwise folks get nervous that they missed a turn. I can see why that's not necessary in Montana.

So now this little sub-thread tangent is about you and me!
One word (acronym): GPS!
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  #8  
Old 05-18-2010, 06:28 PM
pampl pampl is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

I enjoyed this diavlogue the way I enjoy a candy bar: I know it's bad for me (to have all my preconceived beliefs confirmed/to eat a block of sugar) but that just makes it all the more delicious. I do wish Sanchez and Friedersdorf luck in their quest to bring a modicum of integrity to mainstream right wing political discourse.
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  #9  
Old 05-18-2010, 06:44 PM
ImmRefDotCom ImmRefDotCom is offline
 
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Default Oh my

1. The DOJ went on a fishing expedition to AZ trying to catch Arpaio in profiling, and couldn't get anything. They went after him on something else instead.

2. Instead of trying to figure out why the DOJ would do that in the first place (hint: Arpaio is one of those who could cost them power), the two hacks give a skewed view of what went on.

3. For instance, a DHS Asst. Sec'y defended Arpaio against claims of racial profiling.

4. Regarding the tea partiers, they lean libertarian and their strings are being pulled by, in addition to garden-variety DC hacks, libertarians. For instance, without Koch money, one wonders exactly where the partiers (or the Cato Institute) would be.

5. Regarding who's the true libertarian, maybe Sanchez can give us the libertarian justification for playing the race card as he did. (Hopefully BHTV won't delete this comment as Sanchez did with comments I left on his site.)
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  #10  
Old 05-18-2010, 06:50 PM
Freddie Freddie is offline
 
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Default Re: Oh my

Yes, because saying that anything at all is racism, ever, is "playing the race card" these days.
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  #11  
Old 05-18-2010, 07:08 PM
Abdicate Abdicate is offline
 
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Default Porfirio Díaz quote

via Wikipedia:

Porfirio Díaz (in office 12/1/1884–5/25/1911) is usually credited with the saying, "¡Pobre México! ¡Tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca de los Estados Unidos!" (Poor Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States!)
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  #12  
Old 05-18-2010, 11:52 PM
ImmRefDotCom ImmRefDotCom is offline
 
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Default Re: Oh my

1. Referring to "George Will’s column on Arizona’s round-up-the-darkies law" is what exactly, if it's not playing the race card?

2. There's ethnic pride and similar, and then there's hustling. Sanchez seems to be playing up his ethnicity, for some strange reason that I'm absolutely positive has nothing to do with becoming something akin to a libertarian Linda Sanchez.
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  #13  
Old 05-19-2010, 01:40 AM
Furcifer Furcifer is offline
 
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Default Re: Oh my

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmRefDotCom View Post
1. The DOJ went on a fishing expedition to AZ trying to catch Arpaio in profiling, and couldn't get anything. They went after him on something else instead.

2. Instead of trying to figure out why the DOJ would do that in the first place (hint: Arpaio is one of those who could cost them power), the two hacks give a skewed view of what went on.

3. For instance, a DHS Asst. Sec'y defended Arpaio against claims of racial profiling.

4. Regarding the tea partiers, they lean libertarian and their strings are being pulled by, in addition to garden-variety DC hacks, libertarians. For instance, without Koch money, one wonders exactly where the partiers (or the Cato Institute) would be.

5. Regarding who's the true libertarian, maybe Sanchez can give us the libertarian justification for playing the race card as he did. (Hopefully BHTV won't delete this comment as Sanchez did with comments I left on his site.)
The above is a textbook-perfect example of "epistemic closure:"

1. Avoid the specific evidence presented by the other side, in this case, the fact that Arpaio's deputy was found guilty of contempt.

2. Throw around loaded terms like "hack" that have no place in civil, rational discourse.

3. Suggest that your opponent holds his views wholly for financial reasons, even though the same argument could be made about practically anyone in politics.

4. Refer to some ambiguous, unstated standard of authenticity, i.e., who is the "true libertarian" or "real conservative."

5. Throw in a dash of wild paranoia. For example, suggest that your views might be outright censored by the other side due to your relentless truth-telling, and not simply over the fact that you call people names.
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  #14  
Old 05-21-2010, 01:09 PM
ImmRefDotCom ImmRefDotCom is offline
 
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Default Re: Oh my oh my

1. I was discussing their racial profiling claims, pointing out that even the DOJ couldn't get Arpaio on it.

2. I've known of both of them for several years and if they can't be called hacks I don't know what the world could be coming to.

3. If we can't follow the money, I don't know what the world could be coming to. And, once again: where would the 'partiers and Cato (and Reason Magazine) be without Koch money? Would it involve a mimeograph machine and a basement?

4. The reference to "true libertarian" is because of what was said on the segment about whether the 'partiers meet that standard.

5. Actually, my views have been repeatedly censored by the "other side" (it varies) due to my relentless truth-telling. Sure, it occasionally involves links, or I call people by their true names ("hacks"), but even when it doesn't involve links and I'm just as nicey-nice as can be they get deleted. Here are some of those who've deleted my comments or banned me. Check it out, and bear in mind there are still a few who remain to be processed: Sanchez, JasonPye, TaNehisi, and OrinKerr.

The last is a good example: despite posting comments at Volokh since 2002 or 2003, he deleted several of my comments that were nicey-nice but which were critical of him. His reason? Because I harped on him deleting comments. Except, I did that on threads at Volokh about... deleting comments.
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  #15  
Old 05-19-2010, 04:13 PM
JoeK
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Default Re: Oh my

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmRefDotCom View Post
4. Regarding the tea partiers, they lean libertarian and their strings are being pulled by, in addition to garden-variety DC hacks, libertarians. For instance, without Koch money, one wonders exactly where the partiers (or the Cato Institute) would be.

Koch Brothers Fund Trey Grayson’s Campaign (and Trey Grayson is/was Rand Paul's rival, of course).
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  #16  
Old 05-18-2010, 07:06 PM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

This is the pairing I've been waiting for on this topic....finally!
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  #17  
Old 05-18-2010, 07:29 PM
nikkibong nikkibong is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltimoron View Post
This is the pairing I've been waiting for on this topic....finally!
Sanchez, sure...

but I'm surprised/distressed to hear you're a Friedersdorf fan. Or is blander than bland pseudo-intellectual "Sensible" conservatism just your thing?
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  #18  
Old 05-18-2010, 07:58 PM
JonIrenicus JonIrenicus is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkibong View Post
Sanchez, sure...

but I'm surprised/distressed to hear you're a Friedersdorf fan. Or is blander than bland pseudo-intellectual "Sensible" conservatism just your thing?
calling bloggingheads.tv staff, special nikkibong diavlog needs to be commissioned. Must have Friedersdorf + Christopher Beam + Christopher Hitchens.

Might make his head explode, but I'd probably like it.
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  #19  
Old 05-18-2010, 09:11 PM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonIrenicus View Post
calling bloggingheads.tv staff, special nikkibong diavlog needs to be commissioned. Must have Friedersdorf + Christopher Beam + Christopher Hitchens.
What, we can't get Andrew Sullivan in there too?
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  #20  
Old 05-18-2010, 10:07 PM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

OK, I do I have this wonky side that gets way into the weeds, so I like plodding sometimes - maybe after a silly comic aperitif. But, it's mostly IR and Korea stuff. Right now, I'm knee-deep into statistics for a methodology class, so I tend to go off cryptically on Boards and on my blog because my brain is fried. I love Sanchez and The American Scene. I've just wanted a sober, libertarian/conservative critique of the Tea Party that didn't start with "white guys".
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  #21  
Old 05-18-2010, 11:34 PM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

I'll register some disappointment now with this diavlog.

On the Tea Party, Friedersdorf makes a lot of empirical claims about what Tea Partiers believe, and then offers no proof. I'm still waiting for someone to offer a statistical sketch of this movement and its origins. I have two of my own suppositions: one, that the Tea Party is the ugly and emotional side - who knew it had one! - of libertarianism; two, that it's all astroturf, but that the average Rea Partier believes him/herself to be righteous and sincere.

BTW, Arun Gupta wrote this editorial , which has its own problems. Full disclosure: I went to college with Arun, and we participated in divestment and anti-Gulf War campaigns, as well as some other non-political organizations. But, at least he writes this:

Quote:
[/The Tea Party is the latest chapter in the history of the Republicans as the “Party of No.” Its existence depends on continuous promotion from FOX News, organizing by Republican consultants, front groups such as Americans for Prosperity and Freedom Works, and the GOP itself. Much of the Tea Party’s funding comes from right-wing foundations through the front groups, and its politics are anti-government, anti-labor, pro-corporate and often socially conservative, which is the same agenda the right has been pushing for more than 30 years.

(...)

The Tea Party movement – which the Republicans have helped create and exploit to oppose the entirety of the Obama administration – is the latest political variant of the right’s themes. Much of the right’s anger is directed at immigrants, African Americans and social welfare and equality in general. Among Tea Partiers, 73 percent think “Blacks would be as well off as whites if they just tried harder”; 73 percent believe “providing government benefits to poor people encourages them to remain poor”; 60 percent believe “We have gone too far in pushing equal rights in this country”; 56 percent think “Immigrants take jobs from Americans”; 92 percent want a smaller government with “fewer services”; 92 percent think Obama’s policies are moving the country toward socialism; only 7 percent approve of Obama’s performance as president; and a combined 5 percent identify themselves as black, Asian or of Hispanic origin.
(Where are these figures from?)
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  #22  
Old 05-18-2010, 07:57 PM
jimM47 jimM47 is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baltimoron View Post
This is the pairing I've been waiting for on this topic....finally!
Agreed.
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  #23  
Old 05-18-2010, 08:35 PM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

How very clique-like, posting a link to Jim Manzi's critique of Mark Levin's book without also posting Levin's retort where he does a pretty good job of showing that Manzi himself is guilty of “epistemic one-sidededness.”

What were Manzi's words....?

"The problem with this, of course, is that unwillingness to confront the strongest evidence or arguments contrary to our own beliefs normally means we fail to learn quickly, and therefore persist in correctable error."

ha
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  #24  
Old 05-18-2010, 08:46 PM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

Another link to Mark Lilla's very poorly-researched article on the tea-partiers? Where's AemJeff to decry the lack of 'new material'? lol

Since they felt the need to link once again, I will happily add the link to Minnesota Conservatives' post about Lillla's numerous shortcomings.

"Lilla's article is purportedly a review of six books but in his piece only mentions two of them and then indirectly. The review of this clutch of books allows him to lament that the American citizen is not a European. The point cannot be stressed enough: Lilla repeatedly condemns the individual, dismisses the autonomy of people and is contemptuous of the virtue of self-reliance. Culturally, the man is not American and that observation would most likely be met with quiet, smug self-satisfaction. The Committee on Social Thought at the University of Chicago is not quite a Rotary meeting.

Lilla observes that current conditions constitute a revolt against elites; being one himself, he doesn't approve. The goal of that revolt he feels is neutralization of political power. This is always the worst case scenario for people of his ilk. At one point he actually complains about appeals to "petulant individuals" who are convinced they can fend for themselves. The condescension at times leaves one breathless but he carries on.

For example, he blithely ascribes all current political polarization to the "shrunken base" of the Republican party. At such points he risks not being taken seriously and it is clear, whatever else the shortcomings of his missive, he is trying to be so. But myopia subtracts and never adds to seriousness. By now, even ardent supporters of Obama admit to a lack of serious outreach to the other side of the aisle. What's the phrase? Oh yes: "We won.""
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  #25  
Old 05-18-2010, 09:09 PM
pampl pampl is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

Wow, that guy's pretty dumb. The whole point of "we won" and "elections have consequences" was that Obama's supporters were tired of his constant serious outreach being met with a list of far-right demands instead of negotiations. You can argue with that perception, but to claim it's an admission of a lack of serious outreach means you're either a liar or a fool. I haven't read that Lilla article before but if this is the best his critics can do then I guess it's worth checking out.
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  #26  
Old 05-18-2010, 09:22 PM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pampl View Post
Wow, that guy's pretty dumb. The whole point of "we won" and "elections have consequences" was that Obama's supporters were tired of his constant serious outreach being met with a list of far-right demands instead of negotiations. You can argue with that perception, but to claim it's an admission of a lack of serious outreach means you're either a liar or a fool. I haven't read that Lilla article before but if this is the best his critics can do then I guess it's worth checking out.
Yes....sigh,......self-reliance has nothing to do with America's past successes and needs to be placed in the dustbin of history.

Far-right, as in insisting that the majority of Americans who saw through his lies on Obamacare saving money shouldn't have it forced down their throats?

His own people now admit Obamacare is going to increase costs and reduce availability.

Serious outreach, as in condemning immigration laws that they don't even read and which are supported by a vast amount of Americans?

How about no tax cuts on people earning less than $250k?

How about his incredible outreach by taking 50 million of the over one $trillion health care boondoggle to investigate tort abuse?

LOL @ "serious outreach" - Keep drinkin the kool-aid.

And yes, elections do have consequences, even for the liars and fools (your words) who continue to support him.

Change You Can Believe In!
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  #27  
Old 05-18-2010, 10:49 PM
kezboard kezboard is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

Quote:
Yes....sigh,......self-reliance has nothing to do with America's past successes and needs to be placed in the dustbin of history.
What the hell does this even mean?
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  #28  
Old 05-18-2010, 09:36 PM
Whatfur
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

I would be interested in where you feel the "serious outreach" happened and on what planet. Obama has not even been able to reach out to the White House press corp.
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  #29  
Old 05-18-2010, 09:10 PM
harkin harkin is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)

Amazing how someone like Sanchez can be so blind to the msm's liberal tilt, that they first and foremost are just trying to "get things right" before attaching any progressive leanings....lol.

Hey Julian see if you can spot the bubble of reality in the msm's view of AZ's willingness to enforce laws the feds ignore vs the people who are most impacted by illegal immigration:



Below - LATimes poll on whether readers agreed with the LA City Council's economic boycott of AZ (don't you just love the wording of the poll choices? They can't even consider that anyone may actually support the law).

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  #30  
Old 05-19-2010, 07:43 AM
breadcrust breadcrust is offline
 
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Default Re: What Kind of a Monster Are You? (Julian Sanchez & Conor Friedersdorf)



The neutral MSM produced this graph in an article about the generation gap on "racism." As was pointed out in a post by my favorite blogger, this list of cities correlates "hilariously" with the cities that had the most foreclosures during the meltdown. If one doesn't see what is similar about these cities, then my favorite blogger can make sense of it. If one enjoys insolvency, disparate impact suits, and kidnapping, then one is a proponent of amnesty. The question is, do we want to spread rationality (and we could start by ending the drug war) or do we want to import chaos?
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  #31  
Old 05-18-2010, 09:44 PM
rcocean rcocean is offline
 
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Default The puzzling popularity of Conor

He's not very conservative, says nothing interesting, and shows no evidence of wit or great insight.

OTOH, he gives Bob Wright and liberals what they what. Speaks in an elitist tone, calls himself a "conservative", spends most his time attacking other conservatives, and occasionally offers mild, harmless, criticism of liberals on matters they don't really care about.
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  #32  
Old 05-18-2010, 10:02 PM
osmium osmium is offline
 
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Default Re: The puzzling popularity of Conor

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcocean View Post
He's not very conservative, says nothing interesting, and shows no evidence of wit or great insight.

OTOH, he gives Bob Wright and liberals what they what. Speaks in an elitist tone, calls himself a "conservative", spends most his time attacking other conservatives, and occasionally offers mild, harmless, criticism of liberals on matters they don't really care about.
What are examples of the elitist tone? Seriously asking, not being critical.
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  #33  
Old 05-18-2010, 10:38 PM
rcocean rcocean is offline
 
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Default Re: The puzzling popularity of Conor

Quote:
Originally Posted by osmium View Post
What are examples of the elitist tone? Seriously asking, not being critical.
Sorry, but I don't have time to convince you, I'm too busy working on my term papers:

"Why Andrew Sullivan Sounds English" and "Why George Will has an elitist tone".
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  #34  
Old 05-18-2010, 10:52 PM
osmium osmium is offline
 
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Default Re: The puzzling popularity of Conor

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcocean View Post
Sorry, but I don't have time to convince you, I'm too busy working on my term papers:

"Why Andrew Sullivan Sounds English" and "Why George Will has an elitist tone".
Ah I see.

(Osmium gives the homeless man a dollar and walks away.)
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  #35  
Old 05-18-2010, 11:33 PM
osmium osmium is offline
 
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Default Re: The puzzling popularity of Conor

Quote:
Originally Posted by osmium View Post
Ah I see.

(Osmium gives the homeless man a dollar and walks away.)
Added: I'm sorry if this is rude. I can't tell if rcocean is mocking me. Is rcocean mocking me? It reminds me of talking to someone on the street you don't know is a little off, but then suddenly you're like "okay wow that guy's off."

Does anyone else want to talk about what exactly elitism is, how it manifests in Conor Freidersdorf, and what we should think of that?
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  #36  
Old 05-18-2010, 11:40 PM
Baltimoron Baltimoron is offline
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Default Re: The puzzling popularity of Conor

Quote:
Originally Posted by osmium View Post
Added: I'm sorry if this is rude. I can't tell if rcocean is mocking me. Is rcocean mocking me? It reminds me of talking to someone on the street you don't know is a little off, but then suddenly you're like "okay wow that guy's off."

Does anyone else want to talk about what exactly elitism is, how it manifests in Conor Freidersdorf, and what we should think of that?
Yeah, rcocean did come off flippant. I took his post seriously, too, until he buckled when pressed.

Friedersdorf knows people who can or want to pay top dollar for specialists? I don't know if that argument works. The American medical system has created its own culture, and I don't think the way Americans have to deal with it reflects any other aspect of the broader political culture. Lilla's argument might be questionable, but Friedersdorf didn't slay it.
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  #37  
Old 05-19-2010, 12:03 AM
rcocean rcocean is offline
 
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Default Re: The puzzling popularity of Conor

Quote:
Originally Posted by osmium View Post
Added: I'm sorry if this is rude. I can't tell if rcocean is mocking me. Is rcocean mocking me? It reminds me of talking to someone on the street you don't know is a little off, but then suddenly you're like "okay wow that guy's off."

Does anyone else want to talk about what exactly elitism is, how it manifests in Conor Freidersdorf, and what we should think of that?
Yeah, OS I was mocking you. I have no idea what your motive is in asking such a question or whether you're sincere. To often, these type of questions are disingenuous. Further, I have no time or interest in writing an essay on why my opinion in correct - only to get a two sentence reply. Nor am I interested in trying to convince *you* that my opinion is correct.

If you disagree & think Conor is NOT an elitist - then state so, and give your reasons. If you truly cannot understand *why* Conor is an elitist, then maybe you need to listen and read more.
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  #38  
Old 05-19-2010, 12:09 AM
osmium osmium is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: new yorkistan
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Default Re: The puzzling popularity of Conor

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Originally Posted by rcocean View Post
Yeah, OS I was mocking you. I have no idea what your motive is in asking such a question or whether you're sincere. To often, these type of questions are disingenuous. Further, I have no time or interest in writing an essay on why my opinion in correct - only to get a two sentence reply. Nor am I interested in trying to convince *you* that my opinion is correct.

If you disagree & think Conor is NOT an elitist - then state so, and give your reasons. If you truly cannot understand *why* Conor is an elitist, then maybe you need to listen and read more.
Ok great, I don't feel bad anymore. Thanks.
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  #39  
Old 05-19-2010, 12:28 AM
badhatharry badhatharry is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: eastern sierra
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Default Re: The puzzling popularity of Conor

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Originally Posted by osmium View Post
Ok great, I don't feel bad anymore. Thanks.
What a good hearted person you are!

BTW. I answered your question. agree? disagree?

How about this? Sanchez comparing talk show listeners to open minded geniuses in North Korea....they can't be blamed for their environment. Geez!!
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  #40  
Old 05-19-2010, 03:19 AM
Don Zeko Don Zeko is offline
 
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Default Re: The puzzling popularity of Conor

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Originally Posted by rcocean View Post
If you truly cannot understand *why* Conor is an elitist, then maybe you need to listen and read more.
Is Elitism like Pornography - you know it when you see it? Personally, I'm Osmium. I really wish that people making accusations of Elitism would provide some kind of definition of the term, as well as an explanation of why it is a bad trait, particularly given that almost everyone the term is attached to, as well as most of the people using the term in national political discourse, are themselves members of the elite.
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