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Old 12-10-2011, 03:40 PM
stephanie stephanie is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,921
Default Re: Values Added: The Whirligig of Time (Glenn Loury & Walter Russell Mead)

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Originally Posted by ledocs View Post
Thanks for these citations, Stephanie.

I am not someone who has followed Jeffrey Goldberg at all. I am surprised that he has endorsed the kernel of Beinart's video.
I don't follow him all that closely, but I was somewhat surprised too. I think it speaks to how there's been a change going on in the nature of our Israel support, a change that worries even people like Jeffrey Goldberg. (I like Goldberg more than many in these parts, I think, but I do perceive him as to my right on the general I/P issue, and I'm not especially out of the mainstream for the US.)

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I think that Gershon Gorenberg more or less agrees with me on this point, although he is an observant Jew, and I am not.
Yes, that's also what I understood him as saying.

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With regard to the Walt/Mearsheimer book, the question arises about its attitude to the importance of the Christian Zionist movement in determining America's policy towards Israel. My own intuition is that it is quite important, but still less important than the hardline Jewish lobby. A reason for this is that the legitimacy of Christian Zionism is derivative from the legitimacy of Jewish Zionism, although the Christian Zionists no doubt try to work their way around this problem. But secondly, this still all has to be worked out in terms of the nuts and bolts of American politics and power. And in those terms, my intuition tells me that the influence of Christian Zionism derives from the hardline American Zionists, that Christian Zionism could not be nearly as influential as it is in the absence of the hardline Jewish lobby. But showing how that works in terms of lobbying and money and elections would be a very difficult task.
You and I disagree about this -- I think since 9/11 in particular there's been a change. But also there's been an effort by the Israeli right and Jewish right to cultivate Christian Zionism. How much the popularity of Israel and hawkish Israeli policies with the Christian right relates to Christian Zionism is unclear to me, however -- I think one could be not into the religious aspects but still be motivated by certain other aspects of the policies given general rightwing foreign policy post 9/11.

I am willing to say I don't know, however. I'm just basing my view on what makes sense to me about American politics and especially Republican politics. I'd be interested in some real journalism and scholarly studies.
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