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Bloggingheads 07-22-2009 12:57 PM

The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 

JoeK 07-22-2009 01:19 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
I see the lady diavloggers discussed the case of arrested professor. Roger Clegg at the corner has a plausible explanation of what transpired: Never Waste a Good 'Racial Incident'
Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Clegg
I suspect that, as soon as the police arrived, Professor Gates realized he had been handed a great opportunity to play the victim and advance his agenda, and he decided to milk the incident for all itís worth. And heís still doing it. Thatís too bad, since the last thing African Americans need in 2009 is to buy into more victimology.

BTW, I should add that I have a lot of sympathy for the police, and not much for people who make it harder for them to do their jobs and who arenít willing to cut them some slack. Hereís a good article on that from todayís Washington Post, of all places.


popcorn_karate 07-22-2009 01:29 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
of course, cops could make it easier for themselves by not being abusive, racist, assholes - and maybe they could even learn about some of the laws they are there to enforce, like private property rights.

DenvilleSteve 07-22-2009 01:39 PM

what did the police officer do wrong?
 
Democrats dont seem to like to deal with details. They tend to contradict their grandiose thought experiments. ( see Obama, health care, negatively affects too many voters, crash and burns )

In regard to the recent Henry Louis "Big Entitlement Baby" Gates, Jr. vs. professional police officer case, what did the officer do wrong, what should have been done differently? If the objective is to learn and improve, democrats should provide specifics to their complaints.

It is dangerous for a police officer to respond to a call of a possible burglary in progress. The ruling class has taken down from the web the signed report of the event by the police officer in question. When I read it, I did not see anything that the officer did wrong.

Steve Sailer has a good blog post on the subject:
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2009/07/w...-thoughts.html

Here is the police report the BG took down from its site:
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Police%2...s%20arrest.PDF

( also, if you go to Sailer's site, there is interesting reading on how Asian HS students appear to be gaming the quota and requirement system and are crowding out whites from the California University system.
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2009/07/h...-your-kid.html

"...Asians tend to be harder working, more organized, more conformist, and more devoted to gaming the system. In contrast, white Americans tend to have a touching faith that experts have no doubt devised fair methods for selection, so it wouldnít be sporting to try to find an edge Ö an assumption that immigrants find most amusing. ..."
)

I'm SO awesome! 07-22-2009 01:40 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
Louis CK on "the n-word":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqwj--wGEgY

on being white:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY

popcorn_karate 07-22-2009 01:53 PM

Re: what did the police officer do wrong?
 
the cop had been shown ID and knew Gates was in his own home before he called yet more cops to the scene. Shouldn't he have offered an apology and left when it was obvious that he was trespassing in someone's home?

Gates was then arrested for "yelling" - on his own front porch. wtf

skonny 07-22-2009 02:35 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
Quote:

I see the lady diavloggers discussed the case of arrested professor.
If the condescending tone isn't intentional, you should be aware that it's there.

Regarding Clegg's analysis, it's hard to know where to start.

First off, I'll admit that being arrested in the night (in your own home, for no good reason) is indeed a "golden opportunity to play the victim". I'd suggest to NRO/The Corner that seeing the world through such a lens raises serious doubts about the sincerety of your self-proclaimed distrust of the state. Not to mention makes you something of a monster.

Quote:

"The last thing African Americans need in 2009 is to buy into more victimology".
Far be it from me to question the priorities NRO sets for american blacks(!!!), but it seems to me that the victimization itself might be a bigger problem than (and the primary cause of) the "victimology". Just something to consider for next time you opine on what black people need.

claymisher 07-22-2009 02:57 PM

Re: what did the police officer do wrong?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by popcorn_karate (Post 121176)
the cop had been shown ID and knew Gates was in his own home before he called yet more cops to the scene. Shouldn't he have offered an apology and left when it was obvious that he was trespassing in someone's home?

Gates was then arrested for "yelling" - on his own front porch. wtf

What kind of country doesn't let an old man yell on his own front porch?! THIS IS AMERICA!!!111!

popcorn_karate 07-22-2009 03:32 PM

Re: jury nullification
 
anybody have thoughts on jury nullification other than, "hell yeah!" ?

seems like the trump card the people get to play when the powers that be get out of hand.

BigM 07-22-2009 03:35 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
This is appalling. A cursory reading of the police report shows that there was no racism involved, that Mr. Gates behaved belligerently toward a policeman who was only doing his job. A potential break-in had been reported by a neighbor; in fact, in the police report, Gates says clearly that he had suffered a previous break-in, and because of it could not secure his own front door. The policeman immediately accepted Gates as the resident and did not treat him badly. Yet Gates persisted in loudly attacking the man, to the point where he was rightly arrested for disorderly conduct. These two educated journalists immediately accept this as a racist incident without taking the slightest step toward investigating what actually happened; they chortle over what the Harvard bigshots are going to do to these poor policemen. There is indeed bullying going on here, but it is not directed at Mr. Gates

JoeK 07-22-2009 03:51 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by skonny (Post 121182)
If the condescending tone isn't intentional, you should be aware that it's there.

Yes, it was deliberate. I am so glad you noticed it.
Quote:

Originally Posted by skonny (Post 121182)
Regarding Clegg's analysis, it's hard to know where to start.

First off, I'll admit that being arrested in the night (in your own home, for no good reason) is indeed a "golden opportunity to play the victim". I'd suggest to NRO/The Corner that seeing the world through such a lens raises serious doubts about the sincerety of your self-proclaimed distrust of the state.

Small-government conservatives consider law enforcement one of the few legitimate functions of the state. Attempts by race hustlers or some other type of liberal activists to prevent officials from carrying out this basic and gravely important business of the state are frowned upon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skonny (Post 121182)
Far be it from me to question the priorities NRO sets for american blacks(!!!),

I guess it was either that or telling Blacks to jump into the lake.
Quote:

Originally Posted by skonny (Post 121182)
but it seems to me that the victimization itself might be a bigger problem than (and the primary cause of) the "victimology". Just something to consider for next time you opine on what black people need.

If you allow me to put myself in the shoes of white Obama voters, it must be bitterly disappointing to see black victimization alive and well after electing the One.

Jyminee 07-22-2009 03:59 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
John McWhorter's take is here: http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/mcwho...-he-isn-t.aspx

He writes, "The relationship between black men and police forces is, in fact, the main thing keeping America from becoming "post-racial" in any sense."

DenvilleSteve 07-22-2009 04:21 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyminee (Post 121194)
John McWhorter's take is here: http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/mcwho...-he-isn-t.aspx

He writes, "The relationship between black men and police forces is, in fact, the main thing keeping America from becoming "post-racial" in any sense."

McWhorter does not address any of the specifics of the case other than to say we should not judge Gates as a drama queen because of the negative encounters black men have with the police. I dont understand what the police officer did that was wrong.

pampl 07-22-2009 04:24 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigM (Post 121191)
ThThe policeman immediately accepted Gates as the resident and did not treat him badly. Yet Gates persisted in loudly attacking the man, to the point where he was rightly arrested for disorderly conduct.

So basically you're saying it's OK for police to go into the home of anyone they want and arrest them as long as they claim the person was noisy. I'm not sure this approach to policing is a very good way to decrease resentment towards the police. Perhaps the police should stick to arresting people who are committing crimes, rather than accosting old men in their own homes then, upon finding out that they're both innocent and an upstanding member of society, arresting them anyway. Might cause less hard feelings IMO.

pampl 07-22-2009 04:34 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
Does anyone the approximate date when that one right wing gun nut shot and killed two policemen in his house? I vaguely remember some people offering excuses for a psychotic cop killer who was actually breaking the law who now don't seem to be offering excuses for an innocent black man, but I'd like to make sure.

DenvilleSteve 07-22-2009 04:36 PM

bigger picture
 
There appear to be a lot more police employed since 9/11. More police but the same amount of crime. End result being the police have less to do and have more time to stop people for minor infractions. Everyone is being stopped more, only blacks are encouraged by institutional america to think they are being singled out.

Lyle 07-22-2009 04:39 PM

John McWhorter Disagrees
 
John McWhorter's thoughts:

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/mcwho...-he-isn-t.aspx

My thoughts are that Prof. Gates should have acted liked John did in his incident, i.e., remain respectful even if disgusted by the treatment.

Prof. Gates might ought to apologize to the Cambridge police instead of him asking them to apologize to him. The man esteems himself too much, I think.

Lyle 07-22-2009 04:46 PM

Gates Acted Immaturely
 
I can understand his anger. It was his house, etc... but he brought the arrest on himself.

Lyle 07-22-2009 04:48 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
I agree. Gates was out of order in making assumptions about the particular police officer. Attempting to bully him was stupid.

Can't stand people who are disrespectful from the get go with cops. This cop is not a bad cop, at least, not in this incidence.

Lyle 07-22-2009 04:53 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
Pampl,

He wasn't arrested inside the house. The disorderly conduct was made while outside of his house while in public view. Read the police report. And don't forget Gates neighbor was worried and called the police. The police weren't like, oh look a black guy is in that house lets go arrest him.

epiphanius 07-22-2009 05:01 PM

Gates was not charged with burglary.
 
Emily and Farai (or the few commenters I have seen) don't seem to have the facts of the Gates case straight. Gates was not arrested or charged with anything to do with burglary.

He was charged with being disorderly, because, in the words of the arresting officer, he was 'tumultuous'. This happened well after it was established that he was in his own home, rather than breaking into someone else's.

For a very thorough discussion, including links to the police report, see:

http://www.metafilter.com/83424/This...men-in-America

I rather enjoy being tumultuous, so I will try to avoid Cambridge when I'm up for a little tumult.

seancrapola 07-22-2009 05:02 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
I can't understand the absolute certainty of so many people that this was a racist incident. This is a single event. Evaluate it in its own terms. Read the police report. Was it an attempted burglary or a domestic situation? The police don't know until they thoroughly investigate the matter. We don't necessarily know what the attitude of the police or Gates was. Would it kill anyone to reserve judgment or rather than immediately sprint to the most incendiary explanation give these cops, at least two of whom are non-white, the benefit of the doubt?

seancrapola 07-22-2009 05:03 PM

Re: Gates was not charged with burglary.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by epiphanius (Post 121207)
Emily and Farai (or the few commenters I have seen) don't seem to have the facts of the Gates case straight. Gates was not arrested or charged with anything to do with burglary.

He was charged with being disorderly, because, in the words of the arresting officer, he was 'tumultuous'. This happened well after it was established that he was in his own home, rather than breaking into someone else's.

For a very thorough discussion, including links to the police report, see:

http://www.metafilter.com/83424/This...men-in-America

I rather enjoy being tumultuous, so I will try to avoid Cambridge when I'm up for a little tumult.

Maybe the cop just didn't like having someone scream "racist" in his face as he tried to figure out what the hell was going on.

graz 07-22-2009 05:06 PM

Re: bigger picture
 
I'm white and my cop story is similar with the officer being black instead.
I had a new car with dealer tags only. So in broad daylight, I was flashed the lights and siren. The officer pinned my vehichle with his when I pulled into a lot. I had my sons in car seats in the rear (5yo) and pointed to the dealer tags, showed my license and waited after his scowl and veiled threat another ten minutes while he did what I can only imagine was him eating a doughnut only to return without as much as a have a nice day. More scowling, no acknowlegment of the passengers and or a cursory explanation of the reason for the stop. I was patient only to the extent that I didn't wish to escalate the scene due to the presence of the chidren.
Lesson learned: Fuck the police.
Citizens first... State power second and with a smile thanks.

Lyle 07-22-2009 05:08 PM

I Agree With Farai
 
Farai,

I totally agree with you about the use of n-word. N-word is not even a word and when discussing the word ****** in conversation, not in any way using it as a pejorative, people shouldn't be embarrass to just say ******. There is absolutely nothing racist about saying it in a non-pejorative way.

I also agree with you that it is arguable the South has done a better job with dealing its prejudices than some other places in the United States, perhaps even like Boston (school integration didn't happen in Boston until about a decade after it happened in the rural South). Louisiana and Virginia have had non-white governors. Many southern cities and towns have black mayors and police chiefs. The rural parish in Louisiana I'm originally from has even had an African-American district attorney. The South has come a long way. Not perfect of course, but it is a much better place now. Perhaps a reason why African-Americans are migrating back to the South from other parts of the country.

Good diavlog by the way.

Lyle 07-22-2009 05:10 PM

Re: bigger picture
 
No, you should actually respect the police even if they are disrespecting you. There is nothing more immature and mean than citizens who cannot abide the authority of a police officer.

pampl 07-22-2009 05:24 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle (Post 121206)
Pampl,

He wasn't arrested inside the house. The disorderly conduct was made while outside of his house while in public view. Read the police report. And don't forget Gates neighbor was worried and called the police. The police weren't like, oh look a black guy is in that house lets go arrest him.

I did read the report. The cop went into his house first, then when he found out that Gates wasn't a burglar and was actually an upstanding citizen the cop decided to haul him off.

I don't even think this was some big racial deal, sometimes cops are just dicks. Looking at the way people rush to excuse thuggish abuse of power reveals an awful lot about them, though.

claymisher 07-22-2009 05:35 PM

Re: bigger picture
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graz (Post 121210)
I'm white and my cop story is similar with the officer being black instead.
I had a new car with dealer tags only. So in broad daylight, I was flashed the lights and siren. The officer pinned my vehichle with his when I pulled into a lot. I had my sons in car seats in the rear (5yo) and pointed to the dealer tags, showed my license and waited after his scowl and veiled threat another ten minutes while he did what I can only imagine was him eating a doughnut only to return without as much as a have a nice day. More scowling, no acknowlegment of the passengers and or a cursory explanation of the reason for the stop. I was patient only to the extent that I didn't wish to escalate the scene due to the presence of the chidren.
Lesson learned: Fuck the police.
Citizens first... State power second and with a smile thanks.

It's too bad more people don't know how to use a little sense of humor. A quick, "Sorry to waste your time, just doin' my job," from the cop would have made you and the cop a little happier about the whole thing. I guess people with great temperaments don't generally want to be cops though.

Lyle 07-22-2009 05:44 PM

Re: bigger picture
 
Stereotyping cops, brilliant. They're simply trained to act a certain way in certain situations. Some probably don't have a sense of humor, just like a lot of intellectuals don't have a sense of humor because they take themselves too seriously. On the other hand some probably have a great sense humor, just like any other person doing any other job might. There is no good reason to treat cops like they are some kind of "other". Cops are people from every walk of life and have as many different personalities as any other large group of people.

popcorn_karate 07-22-2009 05:48 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeK (Post 121193)
Small-government conservatives consider law enforcement one of the few legitimate functions of the state. Attempts by race hustlers or some other type of liberal activists to prevent officials from carrying out this basic and gravely important business of the state are frowned upon.

yet even with the fixation on private property rights you really don't mind if a black man is dragged out of his own home for no legitimate reason, right?

I hope you get the pleasure of experiencing first hand the joy of police abuse at some time your life, joe, it will undoubtedly make you a better person to feel just how much "freedom" you have when even one cop decides he doesn't like you.


Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeK (Post 121193)
If you allow me to put myself in the shoes of white Obama voters, it must be bitterly disappointing to see black victimization alive and well after electing the One.

no, not really. we didn't figure electing Obama would make racists magically disappear and stop trying to victimize minorities.

Lyle 07-22-2009 06:00 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
He wasn't dragged out of his own home. He wasn't arrested in his own home.

Lyle 07-22-2009 06:01 PM

My Daddy, the Jailbird
 
Gates is interviewed by his daughter Elizabeth.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...jailbird/full/

graz 07-22-2009 06:01 PM

Re: bigger picture
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle (Post 121213)
No, you should actually respect the police even if they are disrespecting you. There is nothing more immature and mean than citizens who cannot abide the authority of a police officer.

No, actually authority ought be kept in check.
It's toadying suck-ups like you that have granted Bushco (etc...) overarching power to survail, scare and curtail freedom.

Lyle 07-22-2009 06:02 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
No, that is not what happened. Prof. Gates wasn't arrested until he was outside of his house. He admits this himself. He was arrested on and "hauled off" from his porch.

grits-n-gravy 07-22-2009 06:04 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle (Post 121205)
I agree. Gates was out of order in making assumptions about the particular police officer. Attempting to bully him was stupid.

Can't stand people who are disrespectful from the get go with cops. This cop is not a bad cop, at least, not in this incidence.

Anyone who thinks it's disrespectful to ask a cop for his name and badge number shouldn't be allowed to vote.

grits-n-gravy 07-22-2009 06:07 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle (Post 121225)
No, that is not what happened. Prof. Gates wasn't arrested until he was outside of his house. He admits this himself. He was arrested on and "hauled off" from his porch.

Gates had already established his identity and residence before stepping outside so the only reason to arrest was out of racial spite. Stop trying to rationalize racism.

Lyle 07-22-2009 06:08 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
Did I say it was disrespectful to ask for their name and badge number? No, I didn't.

popcorn_karate 07-22-2009 06:09 PM

Re: My Daddy, the Jailbird
 
Good link Lyle.

after reading the interview, do you still have the same naive view of police power that you espoused earlier?

Lyle 07-22-2009 06:11 PM

Re: The Arrest of Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (Emily Bazelon & Farai Chideya)
 
Nope. He arrested for disorderly conduct in public because according to the police report he was yelling and being belligerent outside of his house and in front of a group of people.

Nothing suggests he was arrested for being black. Perhaps he was arrested because he was an angry college professor above a petty police officer. Who knows? Saying it was about race is per speculation on Gates and everyone's part.

Lyle 07-22-2009 06:14 PM

Re: bigger picture
 
You don't check a policeman's authority by disrespecting him though.


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