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Bloggingheads 01-20-2009 10:10 AM

Happy Inauguration!
 

Joel_Cairo 01-20-2009 10:35 AM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
I believe Mark & Byron are mistaken in calling Pete Seeger an unrepentant Stalinist. He actually has repented, quite some time ago.

/fact-check nanny.

brucds 01-20-2009 10:42 AM

Setting the record straight....
 
...so Byron York can't just say anything that pops into his head because it suits his dyspepsia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/01/ar...ic/01seeg.html

brucds 01-20-2009 10:56 AM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
It's also telling that York wasn't impressed by "Lincoln Portrait" - perhaps because Aaron Copeland was also a "Popular Front" artist during the heyday of the old Left. In fact, Lincoln Portrait was scheduled for President Eisenhower's inaugural concert but withdrawn because Copland was under scrutiny by the McCarthyites in Congress.

Mr. York's finer cultural and political sensibilities are revealed by his disappointment that Tiger Woods isn't 100% whore and solely focused on his branding image, but was willing to introduce a military chorus and speak of his father's service to his country at a supremely patriotic inaugural event that, nevertheless, ticks off creeps like York's fellow Cornerites who suffer from, yes, Obama Derangement Syndrome.

bjkeefe 01-20-2009 11:30 AM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
I can't think when I've ever heard someone as petty and small-minded as Byron York. If graciousness were gasoline, he wouldn't have enough to push a motorcycle around the inside of a Cheerio. What a noxious little hemorrhoid he is.

harkin 01-20-2009 11:32 AM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Since Seeger decided to quietly criticize Stalin in 1993 and 95 (in his mid 70s), it would seem that he was an unrepentant Stalinist for most of his life, even going so far as to censor criticism from the documentary about him. Byron seems absolutely correct saying he 'was' a Stalinist.

1993, imagine the obtuseness capable of prolonging the insight.

If Seeger wants to brag that he ignored Orwell, Conquest, Solzhenitsyn etc as proof of his political acumen and proudly display himself as a perfect example of a feather-headed fellow traveller, more power to him. The story of he and his ilk should be taught in political science classes countrywide.

Seeing him yesterday was extremely funny, celebrating a political process that (had he and his party been successful) would not exist.

The only thing better would have been Ayers doing a Riverdance on the flag.

brucds 01-20-2009 11:46 AM

Seeger
 
Pete Seeger is, incidentally, the man gave the world the Civil Rights anthem "We Shall Overcome", revising a traditional song. He's the guy who created the contemporary version, changed some lyrics, wrote several key additional lyrics, published it and popularized it. Whatever his weaknesses and flaws, his place on that stage Sunday was earned honestly. York speaks for a magazine that was defending segregation and opposing the civil rights movement in their own country when Seeger was a vital spokesman for racial equality. Glass houses and all that...

(For all that dubious history, National Review was arguably more intellectually - if not morally - respectable in the fifties and sixties than it is under it's current incarnation.)

PaulL 01-20-2009 12:08 PM

No Smoking in the White House.
 
Mark Schmitt sounds like one of those anti-smoking control freak.
The law is the law?
I believe it was Shrew in Chief Hillary Clinton who make/declared the White House Nonsmoking.
I would like Mr. Obama to reverse it and start smoking in the Secretary of State's office.

Tara Davis 01-20-2009 01:28 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 101663)
I can't think when I've ever heard someone as petty and small-minded as Byron York. If graciousness were gasoline, he wouldn't have enough to push a motorcycle around the inside of a Cheerio. What a noxious little hemorrhoid he is.

Right. And when describing the left's reaction to Bush's two election victories, the first word that comes to mind for me is, "graciousness."

Or not.

Losing an election doesn't make you change your opinions, nor should it. Get over it.

claymisher 01-20-2009 01:41 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 101663)
I can't think when I've ever heard someone as petty and small-minded as Byron York. If graciousness were gasoline, he wouldn't have enough to push a motorcycle around the inside of a Cheerio. What a noxious little hemorrhoid he is.

I think I understand York. York sounds like a guy who speaks only to please himself. I was like that too, when I was nine years old.

Tara Davis 01-20-2009 01:53 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brucds (Post 101662)
... ticks off creeps like York's fellow Cornerites who suffer from, yes, Obama Derangement Syndrome.

I'm looking for it, but I'm just not seeing it.

I mean, sure, the professional hot-heads like Mark Levin are screaming to the rafters about Obama, but they would have done so regardless of which Democrat became president.

Most conservatives (and libertarians) quietly counted this election as LOST when McCain sealed up the GOP nomination. No matter what happened from that point on, the White House would not be run by most people's idea of a "Reaganite".

Given the choice between McCain & Obama, most of us (who are not dogmatic party loyalists) are actually relatively okay with the way the election came out. Most of us have been pleasantly surprised with a lot of Obama's cabinet picks, and while we certainly intend to oppose many of his policies very strongly, he's the best we could hope for in a year when conservative leadership utterly failed to produce a candidate we could get behind. (Some of us got behind Rep. Paul, but not nearly enough.)

Bush Derangement Syndrome has always baffled me. Bush expanded federal education spending, vastly expanded medicare, imposed steel tariffs, swelled regulatory spending, and closed his presidency by damn near nationalizing the entire banking industry and bailing out the UAW's sector of the auto market.

Add to that the decision to fight a horrendously unpopular war with thin justification for doing so, and he wasn't so much the second President George Bush as he was the second President Lyndon Johnson.

brucds 01-20-2009 02:07 PM

ODS
 
"I'm looking for it, but I'm just not seeing it."

Guess you missed all of the ugly emails, crackpot blogposts and suggestions by the McCain-Palin campaign that they were fending off a socialist.

Glad you're okay - if you're "pleasantly surprised" it's probably because you believed the irrational bullshit that was being spewed out by Obama's adversaries.

bjkeefe 01-20-2009 02:10 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tara Davis (Post 101671)
Right. And when describing the left's reaction to Bush's two election victories, the first word that comes to mind for me is, "graciousness."

Or not.

Losing an election doesn't make you change your opinions, nor should it. Get over it.

In the first place, I dispute that Bush had two election victories.

In the second place, I challenge you to document any Democratic or liberal commentator who was, on Inauguration Day, anywhere near the pissant that York was today.

[Added] As far as I remember, the so-called liberal media could not stop talking about "the kind of guy you'd like to have a beer with" in 2000 and "the wartime president" in 2004.

uncle ebeneezer 01-20-2009 02:18 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
It seems to me that when somebody "repents" we should no longer call them "unrepentant." Otherwise everyone WAS "unrepentant" until, you know, they repented. It's an obvious smear. And it's most ironic that those who love to throw this sort of thing around, often spend great amounts of time in churches that preach the idea of repentance and forgiveness.

brucds 01-20-2009 02:23 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
I might add, Tara, that given your apparent affinity for Ron Paul and disapproval of the Iraq war, you don't fit the "Cornerite" profile even a little bit.

Also given the too-clever bit about Bush's half-baked, generally poorly concieved programs, you are essentially clueless about the values of liberalism (and competence) vs. the dismal essence of the Bush presidency, but that's another discussion. I'll simply note that Bill Clinton's unique position - sandwiched between the tax-cut dogmas of Reaganism and Bush's particular brand of insane profligacy - sure didn't win much love from the Right for being the only fiscally responsible President in many a decade. Ironies abound.

claymisher 01-20-2009 02:25 PM

Re: Seeger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brucds (Post 101665)
Pete Seeger is, incidentally, the man gave the world the Civil Rights anthem "We Shall Overcome", revising a traditional song. He's the guy who created the contemporary version, changed some lyrics, wrote several key additional lyrics, published it and popularized it. Whatever his weaknesses and flaws, his place on that stage Sunday was earned honestly. York speaks for a magazine that was defending segregation and opposing the civil rights movement in their own country when Seeger was a vital spokesman for racial equality. Glass houses and all that...

(For all that dubious history, National Review was arguably more intellectually - if not morally - respectable in the fifties and sixties than it is under it's current incarnation.)

Yeah, what the fuck is up with that? At least Seeger grew up. What's NR's and York's excuse?

I totally understand why so many people were drawn to communism back then, as dumb as communism is. Both the Democratic and Republican parties were officially racist. If you wanted a non-racist party you had to look elsewhere. When you shut people out of good options you push them into bad options. This is another reason to not shut people out.

brucds 01-20-2009 02:30 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
"Bush's two election victories"


That's opinion, not fact - which goes to the heart of this disingenuous notion that there was such a thing as "Bush Derangement Syndrome."

That might have been arguable in 2001, but current public opinion and the sequence of major failures reveals the "BDS" meme that was used to deflect most legitimate criticism of this sleazy, incompetent, bullying administration for the evasion of honest discourse that it always was.

pampl 01-20-2009 02:35 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tara Davis (Post 101671)
Losing an election doesn't make you change your opinions, nor should it. Get over it.

This is a little off-topic, but I disagree. I believe that the democratic process produces better results than any individual's judgment, even my own, so when (for instance) Bush beat Kerry it gave me strong reason to critically examine my own vote. If you believe in the democratic process at all, it should have SOME effect on your opinions.

AemJeff 01-20-2009 02:51 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brucds (Post 101679)
"Bush's two election victories"


That's opinion, not fact - which goes to the heart of this disingenuous notion that there was such a thing as "Bush Derangement Syndrome."

That might have been arguable in 2001, but current public opinion and the sequence of major failures reveals the "BDS" meme that was used to deflect most legitimate criticism of this sleazy, incompetent, bullying administration for the evasion of honest discourse that it always was.

Yup. It would be hard to overemphasize the truth of this.

brucds 01-20-2009 03:16 PM

Happy Inauguration!!!!!
 
Full text of the Inaugural Address:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/commu...updates/gGxHZR

popcorn_karate 01-20-2009 03:46 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Tara,

off the top of my head, some of the things that ticked me off:

1) not being elected, but being installed in a judicial coup - and being smug about it.

2) allowing 9/11 to happen.

3) suspending Habeous corpus (sp.?)

4) lying his way into a disastrous war.

5) wasting a surplus and economically ruining my country ( think how bad it would be if his stupid SS "reforms" had gotten through)

6) his smugness

7) embracing torture

8) all of the right wing scum that were his cheering section, telling everyone else they were unpatriotic.

9) blatantly breaking the law (fisa etc.), and showing once and for all that our laws are really only for the little people, not for our elites.

10) trying to ruining the department of justice

11) FEMA used to help people, after bush we have the their worthless response to Katrina.

12) his constant abuse of the language. terrorist. nuclear. etc.

the details, though, are less important than the zeitgeist. Sarah Palin is his direct political descendent. The whole idea of the "real" america being the red states; that the rest of us (who subsidize the red states through the federal government) are not patriots; that is what, i think, causes the derangement syndrome. People were scared, and now just sickened, because he was leading this political movement that really looked like a nascent form of the nationalism that lead to... yeah, you know where its going but i'll refrain from saying it. Bush was simply a horrifyingly bad president, and he was arrogantly and smugly leading us away from what many think America is all about - freedom.

bkjazfan 01-20-2009 04:21 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
As far as the previous presidency it was a failed one in my opinion. However, I don't think he is satan.

President Obama has set the graciousness standard regarding his predecessor. In the first paragraph of his speech he thanked George Bush for his service. Then, in a mold breaker he and his wife escorted the Bushs' to the helicopter. Obama is a class act and one to be emulated.

Gutter sniping and playing the blame game at this stage is counter-productive since we are facing the most serious financial crisis since the Great Depression.

John

bjkeefe 01-20-2009 04:28 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bkjazfan (Post 101686)
Gutter sniping and playing the blame game at this stage is counter-productive since we are facing the most serious financial crisis since the Great Depression.

John

I would be happy to agree if there weren't so many slimy little "Bush Legacy Project" types running around, already trying to rewrite history. When I hear a general admission that Bush was a disaster as president instead of hearing excuses and "it was Clinton's fault" and "at least he kept us safe," I'll stop feeling the need to set the record straight.

bjkeefe 01-20-2009 04:32 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tara Davis (Post 101673)
Bush Derangement Syndrome has always baffled me.

Maybe you should look at the numbers and watch "Eight Years in Eight Minutes."

It's not derangement no matter how much the author of Unhinged might wish it were. It is, instead, a strong indicator of sanity to loathe everything about Bush and his cronies.

Salt 01-20-2009 07:27 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Question: If the red states are so misguided, why is it that it's the big, stalwart blue states that are FRIGGIN BROKE?

On the other hand, I must give Barack Obama some credit for his speech. The tone was realistic and appropriate. If I'm not mistaken, where fiscal policy is concerned he also seems to be reluctant to drink his own liberal Koolaid. Of course, he and the rest of us (who haven't sold our stocks, real estate and dollars) will wind up drinking it eventually. Glad the markets cut him some slack for Inauguration Day, only down 5%.

claymisher 01-20-2009 08:05 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
http://inthefray.org/images/stories/72324165.jpg

Lord almighty, Byron York is a WATB!

Mark Schmitt is a deep thinker and a knowledgeable guy, but when you pair him up with know-nothing whiners like York it's a waste.

BTW, Schmitt's got a great piece up today: A Farewell to Words. I thought Obama's speech was a little flat, but reading it later I thought it was terrific. I suspect Obama deliberately played it cool today. He could have made the same words soar if he'd chosen to.

edit: fixed egregious misspelling (thanks harkin!)

pampl 01-20-2009 08:38 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Salt (Post 101691)
Question: If the red states are so misguided, why is it that it's the big, stalwart blue states that are FRIGGIN BROKE?

Assuming this isn't rhetorical, it's because the big, stalwart blue states pay into the federal government whereas the red states live off the fed's dole.

DenvilleSteve 01-20-2009 08:55 PM

The out of control national debt - why few concerns voiced?
 
Since hearing Peter Schiff on the subject of the crushing burden of the national debt, I see other political and policy issues as trivial by comparison. How is the country going to pay for trillion dollar per year deficits? I dont understand why a sensible person like Byron York is silent on the subject.

Not that I think the end game is without hope. It could be a very good thing if the federal government collapses, replaced by a decentralized system.

How can a national bankruptcy be avoided?

claymisher 01-20-2009 09:06 PM

Re: The out of control national debt - why few concerns voiced?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve (Post 101695)
Since hearing Peter Schiff on the subject of the crushing burden of the national debt, I see other political and policy issues as trivial by comparison. How is the country going to pay for trillion dollar per year deficits? I dont understand why a sensible person like Byron York is silent on the subject.

Not that I think the end game is without hope. It could be a very good thing if the federal government collapses, replaced by a decentralized system.

How can a national bankruptcy be avoided?

Look at the yield curve.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/chart?...8357|||0.12323

The government can borrow money for next to nothing. People are dying to loan their money to the government right now. The deficit is not a big deal. Debt as a % of GDP isn't too bad still. We can afford the stimulus. As for the long-run, well, ...

DenvilleSteve 01-20-2009 09:08 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by claymisher (Post 101693)
I thought Obama's speech was a little flat, but reading it later I thought it was terrific. I suspect Obama deliberately played it cool today. He could have made the same words soar if he'd chosen to.

the call to collective action and national service is out of place with large segments of the society. Obama is the president of the urban dwellers - that is where his voters are and where the public works dollars will be spent.

DenvilleSteve 01-20-2009 09:17 PM

Re: The out of control national debt - why few concerns voiced?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by claymisher (Post 101696)
The government can borrow money for next to nothing. People are dying to loan their money to the government right now. The deficit is not a big deal. Debt as a % of GDP isn't too bad still. We can afford the stimulus. As for the long-run, well, ...

loaning the federal government $1 trillion takes that money out of the private sector, no? That is a huge drop in investment available to wealth producing industries.

And if the fed is buying a lot of the treasury debt with printed money, you get rising inflation. Same number of goods - a lot more dollars used to purchase those same goods.

Are the democrats able to repeal the laws of economics? Will production rise to match the increased money supply?

AemJeff 01-20-2009 09:17 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve (Post 101697)
the call to collective action and national service is out of place with large segments of the society. Obama is the president of the urban dwellers - that is where his voters are and where the public works dollars will be spent.

Are you telling us you believe that the 53% of voters who pulled the lever for Obama are "urban dwellers?" (Is that code for something?) I hate hate to tell you Steve, but even if you're from the Jersey sticks, he's still your President.

Gravy 01-20-2009 09:22 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Tim Geithner cheated on his taxes in a very obvious manner and he ought to withdraw. The idea that, after years of paying Social Security taxes in other employments, he simply did not recognize the windfall he was claiming for himself - for multiple years - is grotesque. He should also resign from the NY Fed if he hasn't done so yet. If the President wants change we can believe in, he needs to find officials we can believe in and Tim Geithner doesn't fit the bill any longer.

AemJeff 01-20-2009 09:23 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravy (Post 101700)
Tim Geithner cheated on his taxes in a very obvious manner and he ought to withdraw. The idea that, after years of paying Social Security taxes in other employments, he simply did not recognize the windfall he was claiming for himself - for multiple years - is grotesque. He should also resign from the NY Fed if he hasn't done so yet. If the President wants change we can believe in, he needs to find officials we can believe in and Tim Geithner doesn't fit the bill any longer.

It's not likely to happen. This is a minority view even among Republican senators.

bkjazfan 01-20-2009 09:26 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
President Obama's speech today was an apt one. It's not morning again in America and his words reflected the ominous financial situation the country finds itself in.

By the way, if Tim Geithner is credited with being one of the chief architects of the bank bailouts what has he done that's good?

John

bjkeefe 01-20-2009 09:33 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve (Post 101697)
the call to collective action and national service is out of place with large segments of the society.

Now wait a minute. Those "brave red state Americans" you're always going on about -- what are they doing if not national service? And don't such people (who live in those brave red states) also profess to value "community" and "small town values" like neighbor helping neighbor? And aren't most of them churchgoers? How aren't all of these collective action?

AemJeff 01-20-2009 09:33 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bkjazfan (Post 101702)
...
By the way, if Tim Geithner is credited with being one of the chief architects of the bank bailouts what has he done that's good?

John

It's a little early to tell, don't you think?

bkjazfan 01-20-2009 09:39 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 101704)
It's a little early tell, don't you think?

Just having fun.

John

bjkeefe 01-20-2009 09:40 PM

Re: The out of control national debt - why few concerns voiced?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve (Post 101698)
loaning the federal government $1 trillion takes that money out of the private sector, no?

No. It's going to be pumped right back into the economy, for things like infrastructure spending, alternative energy R&D, and other job creation programs. The private sector will have their hands on it right away.

DenvilleSteve 01-20-2009 09:41 PM

Re: Happy Inauguration!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 101699)
Are you telling us you believe that the 53% of voters who pulled the lever for Obama are "urban dwellers?" (Is that code for something?) I hate hate to tell you Steve, but even if you're from the Jersey sticks, he's still your President.

my patriotism has ebbed since the victory in Iraq. I saw the takedown of the Baathists as necessary to prevent an Iran/Iraq nuclear arms race. But the democrat voters and the ruling class choose to pretend that threat was not a big deal and implicitly state that those who sacrificed did so for a mistake.

Obama is much preferable to Kerry. But he takes things way too seriously and has an elevated sense of the importance of government. I think people are well advised to get their money out of the country.


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