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-   -   Santa Ana Winds Edition (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=2293)

Wonderment 10-18-2008 04:25 PM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
Quote:

7- Schorr reporting on CBS that Goldwater had established "secret links" to Neo-Nazi's in Germany.
I would say this one truly meets the standard, but Schorr was not a Dem. Party operative or acting officially on behalf of the campaign, nor did the Dem. National presidential candidate repeat the idiocy on a nationally televised debate, nor did the party spent gazillions in advertising to reinforce the message.

jimM47 10-18-2008 05:24 PM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
This could be an explanation to any of countless Democratic responses to Republican charges. Seriously, people, don't respond to the explicit (and often irrelevant) charge, respond to the implicit (often highly relevant) charge contained within it.

Don't condemn us to a redux of "but Bush flip-flops too"-style obliviousness.

Bobby G 10-18-2008 06:46 PM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
Some more back-up for rcocean's point:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A37258239

I like these quotes:

If you vote for Nixon, you ought to go to hell.
-Harry Truman, while campaigning on behalf of John F Kennedy in 1960

"Federalists attempted to associate Jefferson with the rapidly deteriorating French Revolution. A Jefferson Presidency was envisioned by one Federalist paper-

"Murder, robbery, rape, adultery and incest will be openly taught and practiced, the air will be rent with the cries of the distressed, the soil will be soaked with blood and the nation black with crimes."

The last quote, of course, comes from a newspaper, not a politician.

DoctorMoney 10-18-2008 06:58 PM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nyc123 (Post 94470)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/us...ics/17joe.html

Perhaps a Toledo paper went nuts to a greater extent, or earlier. Maybe the author of the above piece, Larry Rother, was informed by the Toledo article. You could have politely asked for a link, which I would have provided.

The fact that any paper chooses to tell us more about the economic background (and ideology) of an average citizen than a presidential candidate is problematic.

Your practice of dismissing others without actually addressing the underlying point must make you feel superior, continue stroking yourself. Here is something else to make you feel superior, I'll missspellll someting and then you can dismiss me for that.

Wow, did you invent that "cocoon" meme? Brilliant. How about throwing in the timeless "you are the weakest link" or "where's the beef"? - that would have put me in my place.

Feel better now? I wasn't looking down on you (I don't know you), I was correctly noting that you were pushing for the 'partisan media outlets are pushing this story', which is obviously a form of finger-in-my-ears cocooning.

And no, I was making a Mickey Kaus joke, since it's a word he uses a lot. Yell at him if you think I was being snarky.

Bobby G 10-18-2008 07:55 PM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
I don't know what you mean. Do you mean the idea that Aztlan has revanchist goals?

Wonderment 10-18-2008 08:42 PM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
Quote:

I don't know what you mean. Do you mean the idea that Aztlan has revanchist goals?
I don't know what Aztlan is, but what I mean is the racist garbage often spewed by Mickey about Mexican immigrant families, whom he suspects of organizing a revolution to take over the US Southwest.

That's not merely a stupid idea; it's a crazy idea. It's on a par with a notion like the "Zionists" and George Bush staged 9/11 as an "inside job."

CitizenL 10-18-2008 09:46 PM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
Sieg Heil!!

Bobby G 10-18-2008 09:47 PM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 94532)
I don't know what Aztlan is, but what I mean is the racist garbage often spewed by Mickey about Mexican immigrant families, whom he suspects of organizing a revolution to take over the US Southwest.

That's not merely a stupid idea; it's a crazy idea. It's on a par with a notion like the "Zionists" and George Bush staged 9/11 as an "inside job."

Sorry; Aztlan is not a group; it's a name of what is thought to be the home of a lot of people with Aztec blood in them, if I understand it correctly. Apparently, MEChA makes reference to it, as do La Raza. MEChA's constitution reads: A passage from MEChA's national website reads: "‘As Chicanas and Chicanos of Aztlán, we are a nationalist movement of Indigenous Gente that lay claim to the land that is ours by birthright. As a nationalist movement we seek to free our people from the exploitation of an oppressive society that occupies our land. Thus, the principle of nationalism serves to preserve the cultural traditions of La Familia de La Raza and promotes our identity as a Chicana/Chicano Gente.’"

In addition to MEChA, he may have been worried about the Nation of Aztlan. These organization do exist and they do seem to have nasty tendencies. I don't think they're particularly dangerous, simply because they're not numerous (like Nation of Aztlan) or because the groups with lots of members (like MEChA), even if they think California belongs to them, don't plan on doing anything violent about it.

Wonderment 10-19-2008 02:06 AM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
Quote:

Sorry; Aztlan is not a group; it's a name of what is thought to be the home of a lot of people with Aztec blood in them, if I understand it correctly.
I don't know what "Aztec blood" is. Perhaps you're talking about the 1.4 million Nahuatl speakers in central Mexico who are the descendants of the Aztecs. They would surely represent far less than 1% of Mexican immigrants to the US. I don't have the exact figures, but suffice to say I've never met a Nahuatl-speaker here. I do live in a community where we have about 20,000 Mixteco speakers, but they have no relationship to Aztecs.

Worrying about MECHA as subversive or "revanchist" is like worrying about the Knights of Columbus or the Masons. In other words, it's something only a crackpot or bigot like Mickey would do. MECHA is as dangerous as the Cub Scouts.

I had never heard of the "Nation of Aztlan" until you cited it. But the existence of an obscure fringe group with a bizarre ideology is not particularly surprising in the US.

Smearing Mexican immigrant families by linking them to such groups is an outrage. I understand such sentiments when they come from ignorant people who may get all their education from Lou Dobbs or Rush Limbaugh, but Mickey Kaus knows better. When Mickey spreads that kind of nonsense, it's not just Joe the Plumber ranting in the local bar; it's hate speech, i.e., discourse designed to stir up bigotry and xenophobia.

ROLYAT136 10-20-2008 10:30 PM

Re: Most Dispicable Campaign Charge
 
Goldwater will start a nuclear war commercial - 1964.

johnmarzan 10-21-2008 01:25 AM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
i think obama will get a long honeymoon. but he will be tested, like joe biden said, and his reponse will determine how long that honeymoon lasts.

arg11 10-21-2008 01:17 PM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
Mickey just misheard when Bob asked him if he could think of a worse campaign in the history of this country. Mickey thought that Bob had a map in front of him and was pointing to Germany saying "this country," i.e. the one I am pointing to on the map.

Although, in all fairness, calling Bill and Hillary Clinton murderers does seem to be almost as bad as calling Obama a terrorist.

bjkeefe 10-23-2008 05:11 AM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BeachFrontView (Post 94233)

LOL! Thanks for that, BFV,

bjkeefe 10-23-2008 05:20 AM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Exeus99 (Post 94252)
Except host an important early fundraiser for Obama's state Senatorial campaign. Obviously one can make too much of Sen. Obama's association with Ayers, but that's not best rebutted by intentionally making too little of it.

I'll add to what AemJeff said on this.

What you (along with everyone else who makes these dark mutterings about Ayers) seem to be implying is that Ayers holds the same views that he held forty years ago, and the only reason he would hold a fundraiser for Obama is to support someone who agrees with those old views. That is, you're trying to create the impression that there's this ongoing stealth mission to place Weather Underground operatives into high office.

This is patently ridiculous. Ayers is as much a part of The Establishment now as anyone is. As far as I can tell, the worst thing he's done since Obama got into politics is shoot his mouth off a couple of times.

bjkeefe 10-23-2008 05:23 AM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Usernumberone (Post 94421)
But what about the fundraiser? That's a little bit more than serving on a board together.

Same answer.

bjkeefe 10-23-2008 05:29 AM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kandigol (Post 94267)
Is this [Ayers] really the worst about Obama people can come up with?

Got it in one.

bjkeefe 10-23-2008 05:31 AM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ohcomeon (Post 94299)
about this board thing - I serve on the board of directors for a major charity. My fellow board members ...

Stop, stop, stop! You're scaring people!

bjkeefe 10-23-2008 05:35 AM

Re: Ayers and Kissinger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by claymisher (Post 94340)
Well, I made it as far as the end of the "palling around with terrorists" section. I'm starting to lose respect for Bob now. Kaus is just awful. Why a smart guy like Bob wants to give him a platform, or even waste his time with him, I just don't know.

I keep giving up on Bob/Mickey and I keep coming back, because I'm such a fan of Bob, but Kaus is just nuts. I'd rather listen to Bob talk to a real conservative like Frum, or a real progressive like Yglesias, or a real "other" like Sullivan. Kaus is just a jerk. Maybe not in real life, but he sure is on BH.

Second all of that, except I haven't lost respect for Bob. You do diavlogs with the site co-founder you have, not the site co-founder you wish you had.

Well, to be scrupulously honest, I don't think I even made it as far as "palling around."

Maybe their diavlogs will get better when the election has passed.

TwinSwords 10-23-2008 10:05 PM

Re: Santa Ana Winds Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by arg11 (Post 94769)
Although, in all fairness, calling Bill and Hillary Clinton murderers does seem to be almost as bad as calling Obama a terrorist.

Yeah, you're right. But there's a problem with that example and all of the other ones cited throughout this thread: the murder charges weren't made by Bob Dole or George H.W. Bush, whereas the terrorist charges ARE being made by McCain and Palin directly.

Likewise with the other examples up and down this thread. 3rd parties have always resorted to slime, but this time McCain and the Republican Party have directly embraced the slime themselves.

Like this:

https://donate.barackobama.com/page/...ncmail_slp.jpg


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