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Bloggingheads 12-16-2011 01:01 PM

The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 

apple 12-16-2011 01:57 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
National Review has always been on the dark side morally. William F. Buckley himself defended segregation, racism and justified and minimized the violence against blacks and their allies who were working for their equal rights. It only Romney'd when racism became unacceptable. Remember this when you read articles in the National Review railing against a woman's right to have an abortion.

Here's an article exposing William F. Buckley and the National Review: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...servative.html

David Edenden 12-16-2011 03:26 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Great conversation ... short and sweet. Think of it as a model for the future.

Matt, I can quantify your unease with Huntsman. I think he is great. He is the kind of conservative whom I would lend my car to as opposed to Gingrich, Perry and Bachman unafraid that he would drive it off a cliff.

One of the reasons that he is not doing well is that he "un-American" that is "stylistically" and "temperamentally" he is too Canadian ... mild mannered, reasonable, self-effacing ... the kinder gentler Americans ... you get the picture ... (note: does not apply to hockey players).

He also does not live in what David Frum calls "the alternate reality". That science is good, Obama was born in the US and he is a liberal, not a socialist (we have real socialists in Canada), and we better prepare for "global warming".

This why he doesn't "feel" ... "vibe" like a Republican to Matt, but those are the qualities that appeal to most independents and to some Democrats who regret voting for someone who has zero "touch and feel" for how business works.

badhatharry 12-16-2011 04:51 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Edenden (Post 234821)
He also does not live in what David Frum calls "the alternate reality". That science is good, Obama was born in the US and he is a liberal, not a socialist (we have real socialists in Canada), and we better prepare for "global warming".

He's way more Canadian than even Canadians!

Sulla the Dictator 12-16-2011 05:01 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Edenden (Post 234821)
Matt, I can quantify your unease with Huntsman. I think he is great. He is the kind of conservative whom I would lend my car to as opposed to Gingrich, Perry and Bachman unafraid that he would drive it off a cliff.

One of the reasons that he is not doing well is that he "un-American" that is "stylistically" and "temperamentally" he is too Canadian ... mild mannered, reasonable, self-effacing ... the kinder gentler Americans ... you get the picture ... (note: does not apply to hockey players).

He also does not live in what David Frum calls....

At the end you capture it. Huntsman, inexplicably, choose to woo the two or three dozen members of the party who make up the "Frum wing" of the party. Mostly in the green rooms of media outlets.

Frankly, I would have no interest in being a member of a Republican party dominated by someone like David Frum. I have no interest in what is basically left wing, Democratic governance, minus 20%.

David Edenden 12-16-2011 07:13 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator (Post 234825)
Frankly, I would have no interest in being a member of a Republican party dominated by someone like David Frum. I have no interest in what is basically left wing, Democratic governance, minus 20%.

David Frum is originally from ... CANADA!

Sulla the Dictator 12-16-2011 07:26 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Edenden (Post 234834)
David Frum is originally from ... CANADA!

So is Mark Steyn. Doesn't stop him from being tolerable, now does it?

sugarkang 12-16-2011 07:36 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator (Post 234825)
At the end you capture it. Huntsman, inexplicably, choose to woo the two or three dozen members of the party who make up the "Frum wing" of the party. Mostly in the green rooms of media outlets.

Did you mention in a previous thread that you're an atheist? If so, are you a secular social conservative who has adopted Judeo-Christian morals? Or was it that you're religious, but just not Christian?

apple 12-16-2011 07:44 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarkang (Post 234837)
Did you mention in a previous thread that you're an atheist? If so, are you a secular social conservative who has adopted Judeo-Christian morals?

If you're referring to social conservatism, "obsessions of particular and particularly regressive Christian denominations at this particular moment in time" might be more accurate than "Judeo-Christian morals".

Sulla the Dictator 12-16-2011 08:11 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarkang (Post 234837)
Did you mention in a previous thread that you're an atheist? If so, are you a secular social conservative who has adopted Judeo-Christian morals? Or was it that you're religious, but just not Christian?

Oh no, I am an atheist, I simply find atheism as practiced by moderns to be culturally and intellectually bankrupt. I prefer the milieu of Catholicism, or at least, the warm vagaries of Judeo-Christianity as practiced by earnest Protestants. I am first and foremost interested in aligning myself with the creators or protectors of culture.

Sulla the Dictator 12-16-2011 08:12 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by apple (Post 234838)
If you're referring to social conservatism, "obsessions of particular and particularly regressive Christian denominations at this particular moment in time" might be more accurate than "Judeo-Christian morals".

It would be a silly thing to believe in a transcendent, all powerful being who willingly sacrificed his own son as a gesture of forgiveness, that "changes his mind" conveniently at a time of shifting moral attitudes.

Silly indeed.

badhatharry 12-16-2011 08:49 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator (Post 234836)
So is Mark Steyn. Doesn't stop him from being tolerable, now does it?

for some crazy reason I thought he was British. He has an unusual accent for being Canadian.

Starwatcher162536 12-16-2011 09:21 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Edenden (Post 234821)
He also does not live in what David Frum calls "the alternate reality". That science is good, Obama was born in the US and he is a liberal, not a socialist (we have real socialists in Canada), and we better prepare for "global warming".

I doubt Huntsman wants people to keep mentioning his stance regarding AGW. I doubt he ever conceived it would define him to the extent it has. It was after-all, basically just one tweet, right?

Sulla the Dictator 12-16-2011 09:51 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Starwatcher162536 (Post 234850)
I doubt Huntsman wants people to keep mentioning his stance regarding AGW. I doubt he ever conceived it would define him to the extent it has. It was after-all, basically just one tweet, right?

It was more his tone, than his position.

Sulla the Dictator 12-16-2011 09:51 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 234847)
for some crazy reason I thought he was British. He has an unusual accent for being Canadian.

The best Canadians seem to retain the accent. :p

Maybe its an affectation.

badhatharry 12-16-2011 10:32 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Starwatcher162536 (Post 234850)
I doubt Huntsman wants people to keep mentioning his stance regarding AGW. I doubt he ever conceived it would define him to the extent it has. It was after-all, basically just one tweet, right?

The tweet heard round the world. I guess he was trying to disassociate himself from anti-science types (his characterization) like Perry.

“To be clear, I believe in evolution and trust scientists on global warming. Call me crazy."

but then he said this:"I think there’s a serious problem. The minute that the Republican Party becomes the party – the anti-science party, we have a huge problem. We lose a whole lot of people who would otherwise allow us to win the election in 2012. . . ."

I still, for the life of me, don't understand how a Mormon says with seriousness that he believes in evolution, but what do I know?

sugarkang 12-17-2011 03:33 AM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator (Post 234842)
Oh no, I am an atheist, I simply find atheism as practiced by moderns to be culturally and intellectually bankrupt.

Exclusively in the U.S. or does this apply elsewhere -- Sweden for example? My feeling is that atheism, in cultural and intellectual terms, is too new to be anything but deficient.

Quote:

I am first and foremost interested in aligning myself with the creators or protectors of culture.
What parts of America fall into the anti-culture bracket? Feel free to leave out the obvious examples.

apple 12-17-2011 01:24 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 234858)
The tweet heard round the world. I guess he was trying to disassociate himself from anti-science types (his characterization) like Perry.

“To be clear, I believe in evolution and trust scientists on global warming. Call me crazy."

but then he said this:"I think there’s a serious problem. The minute that the Republican Party becomes the party – the anti-science party, we have a huge problem. We lose a whole lot of people who would otherwise allow us to win the election in 2012. . . ."

I still, for the life of me, don't understand how a Mormon says with seriousness that he believes in evolution, but what do I know?

It's the Out of Missouri hypothesis of human origins.

All kidding aside, Romney also believes in evolution. The Mormons have been aping the Catholic Church lately, so they might be OK with the theory of evolution, too.

stephanie 12-17-2011 02:11 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by apple (Post 234882)
It's the Out of Missouri hypothesis of human origins.

All kidding aside, Romney also believes in evolution. The Mormons have been aping the Catholic Church lately, so they might be OK with the theory of evolution, too.

Here's a discussion from a Mormon blog.

badhatharry 12-17-2011 03:23 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanie (Post 234887)
Here's a discussion from a Mormon blog.

Interesting post and intelligent discussion. So Mormons have the freedom to think whatever they want to think within certain limits.

As I've mentioned, I've done a fair amount of church cruising in my life and at one point found myself in an Assembly of God church (or it may have been Church of Christ, not United Church of Christ). There was a rule which forbade women to lead a prayer if there was a man present. But when young church members met in their homes it was considered revolutionary and a bit naughty to have a woman lead the prayer before a meal. There was even an unofficial magazine of the church which was discussing and encouraging this practice complete with biblical references defending it. I guess every church has its leading edge.

miceelf 12-17-2011 04:03 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Mattenfreude (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 234898)
Interesting post and intelligent discussion. So Mormons have the freedom to think whatever they want to think within certain limits.

And about certain things. As noted by Mollie, the fact that his daughters use alcohol is probably more controversial than his belief in evolution.


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