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-   -   "Peace Activists" Attack Israeli Soldiers (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=5283)

Lyle 05-31-2010 01:47 PM

"Peace Activists" Attack Israeli Soldiers
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkL...layer_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12K...layer_embedded

Great footage.

graz 05-31-2010 02:18 PM

Re: "Peace Activists" Attack Israeli Soldiers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle (Post 163260)
Great footage.

Yes, troll-tastic footage indeed. As you await the sensible posters that will supply context, such as, why, where, who and what? Are you licking your chops for the barrage of inanities you'll counter with?

Let's hope that sensible posters will leave you hanging.

Lyle 05-31-2010 02:36 PM

Re: "Peace Activists" Attack Israeli Soldiers
 
Dude... I'm just simply providing links to raw video footage of the event. Kind of like what your friend bjkeefe does 24/7 here. So excuse me if I go right ahead and do the exact same.

Thank you very much, go grab a beer, some popcorn, or whatever floats your boat and enjoy the can of "peace activist" whoop ass opened up on the Israeli soldiers... and when the Israeli soldiers shoot back in self-defense.

Enjoy the violence (Depeche Mode).

Wonderment 05-31-2010 02:50 PM

Wake up, USA
 
With all due respect to the victims of this atrocity, it's relatively small potatoes compared to the usual mass murder of civilians when the IDF is unleashed on Palestinians. This will get plenty of headlines because the victims were foreigners (apparently).

But we have seen events like this repeatedly since the original sin of the Nakba. We have seen Ariel Sharon, perpetrator of some of the worst mass murders, rise to the level of national hero and prime minister. We have seen the wars in Lebanon (twice) and the siege of Gaza. House demolitions, decades-long torture policies, assassinations. I could go on and on.

Time for the USA to wake up.

Wonderment 05-31-2010 02:54 PM

Schedule of emergency protests today:
 
EMERGENCY PROTESTS TODAY

NY: 3 PM TODAY, Times Square. Assemble at 47th St. and 7th Ave. Look for the JVP banner to join our contingent.

SAN FRANCISCO: 12noon TODAY. Israeli Consulate (456 Montgomery St.) and march to Union Square, Memorial Day. Please be there! Bring your own sign! 1 pm at Market and Powell.

DC: 3pm TODAY: Assemble at the Israeli Embassy, 3514 International Drive NW (Van Ness Metro Stop), moving to the White House at 5pm.

SEATTLE: 1:00 pm TODAY. 5th Avenue and Broad St, Seattle Center near the Experience Music Project.

MIAMI: 5pm-7pm TODAY, at Torch of Friendship (Downtown)

Lyle 05-31-2010 02:54 PM

Re: Wake up, USA
 
You didn't watch the videos did you... victims. Haha. Come on Wonderment. You're better than this.

Lyle 05-31-2010 02:55 PM

Re: Schedule of emergency protests today:
 
Do you denounce the peace activists' violence at all? Do you have any comment about that?

Wonderment 05-31-2010 02:56 PM

Support in Israel
 
Uri Avnery:
Quote:

this night a crime was perpetrated in the middle of the sea, by order of the government of Israel and the IDF Command
A warlike attack against aid ships and deadly shooting at peace and humanitarian aid activists
It is a crazy thing that only a government that crossed all red lines can do

"Only a crazy government that has lost all restraint and all connection to reality could something like that - consider ships carrying humanitarian aid and peace activists from around the world as an enemy and send massive military force to international waters to attack them, shoot and kill.

"Noone in the world will believe the lies and excuses which the government and army spokesmen come up with," said former Knesset member Uri Avnery of the Gush Shalom movement. Gush Shalom activists together with activists of other organizations are to depart at 11:00 from Tel Aviv to protest in front of the prepared detention facility where the international peace activists will be brought.

Greta Berlin, the spokeswoman for the flotilla organizers located in Cyprus, told Gush Shalom activists that the Israeli commandos landed by helicopter on the boats and immediately opened fire.

This is a day of disgrace to the State of Israel, a day of anxiety in which we discover that our future was entrusted to a bunch of trigger-happy people without any responsibility. This day is a day of disgrace and madness and stupidity without limit, the day the Israeli government took care to blacken the name of the country in the world, adding convincing evidence of aggressiveness and brutality to Israel's already bad international image, discouraging and distancing the few remaining friends.

Indeed, today a provocation took place off the coast of Gaza - but the provocateurs were not the peace activists invited by the Palestinians and seeking to reach Gaza. The provocation was carried out by Navy ships commandos at the bidding of the Israeli government, blocking the way of the aid boats and using deadly force.

It is time to lift the siege on the Gaza Strip, which causes severe suffering to its residents. Today the Israeli government ripped the mask of its face with its own hands and exposed the fact that Israel did not "disengage" from Gaza. Real disengagement from the area does not go together with blocking the access to it or sending soldiers to shoot and kill and wound those who try to get there.

The State of Israel promised in the Oslo Accords 17 years ago to enable and encourage the establishment of a deep water port in Gaza, through which Palestinians could import and export freely to develop their economy. It's time to realize this commitment and open the Port of Gaza. Only after the Gaza port will be open to free and undisturbed movement, just like the Ashdod and Haifa ports, will Israel really have disengaged from the Gaza Strip. Until then, the world will continue - and rightly so - to consider the Gaza Strip under Israeli occupation and the State of Israel as responsible for the fate of the people living there.

Contact: Uri Avnery 0505-306449
Adam Keller, Gush Shalom spokesman 03-5565804 or 054-2340749
Coalition Against the Siege Yacov - 050-5733276, 09-7670801, Sebastian -050-6846056

Greta Berlin spokeswoman for flotilla organizers
35799187275
הודעה לעיתונות 31.5.2010

אורי אבנרי: בלב ים בוצע הלילה מעשה פשע בפקודת ממשלת ישראל ופיקוד צה"ל

התקפה מלחמתית על ספינות סיוע וירי קטלני על פעילי שלום וסיוע הומניטארי

היא מעשה מטורף שרק ממשלה שעברה כל גבול מסוגלת לעשותו



"רק ממשלה מטורפת שאיבדה כל רסן וכל קשר למציאות הייתה מסוגלת למעשה כזה – להתייחס לספינות הנושאות סיוע הומניטארי ופעילי שלום מכל רחבי העולם כאל אויב ולשלוח כוח צבאי אדיר כדי לתקוף אותן במים בינלאומיים, לירות ולהרוג. התירוצים השקרניים שמביאים דוברי הממשלה והצבא למעשה הזה לא ישכנעו איש בעולם" אומר חבר הכנסת לשעבר אורי אבנרי מתנועת גוש שלום. פעילים מגוש שלום ותנועות אחרות עומדים לצאת בשעה 11.00 מתל אביב לקיים הפגנת מחאה לפני מתקן המעצר אליו הובאו פעילי השלום הבינלאומיים.



גרטה ברלין, דוברת מארגני המשט הנמצאת בקפריסין, מסרה לפעילי גוש שלום כי חיילי הקומנדו הישראלים נחתו בהליקופטר על הספינות ופתחו מיד באש לעבר נוסעיהן.



זהו יום של חרפה למדינת ישראל, יום של חרדה בו אנו מגלים כי עתידנו הופקד בידי חבורה של אנשים חסרי כל אחריות שידם קלה על ההדק. זהו יום הוא יום של בושה וחרפה וגם שיגעון וטפשות ללא גבול, יום בו דאגה ממשלת ישראל להשחיר את שמה של המדינה בעולם כולו, לספק הוכחות חדשות ומוחצות לתדמית הכוחנית והברוטאלית שכבר יצאה לישראל בזירה הבינלאומית, לייאש ולהרחיק את מעט הידידים שעוד נותרו לה.



אכן, היום התבצעה פרובוקציה מול חופי עזה – אך הפרובוקטורים לא היו פעילי השלום שביקשו להגיע לעזה על פי הזמנתם ובקשתם המפורשת של התושבים הפלסטינים. את הפרובוקציה ביצעו ספינות חיל הים וחיילי הקומנדו, במצוותה של ממשלת ישראל, כאשר חסמו את דרכן של הספינות והפעילו כוח קטלני.



הגיע הזמן להסיר את המצור על רצועת עזה, הגורם סבל קשה לתושביה. היום קרעה ממשלת ישראל במו ידיה את המסכה מעל פניה וחשפה את העובדה כי מדינת ישראל לא "התנתקה" מעזה. מי שהתנתק באמת משטח אינו חוסם את הדרכים לשטח הזה ואינו שולח חיילים להרוג ולפצוע את כי מי משנסה הלגיע אליו.



מדינת ישראל התחייבה בהסכמי אוסלו לפני 17 שנה לאפשר וגם לעודד הקמת נמל עמוק מים בעזה, דרכו יוכלו הפלסטינים לייבא ולייצא באופן חופשי ולפתח את כלכלתם. הגיע הזמן לממש את ההתחייבות הזאת ולפתוח לרווחה את נמל עזה. רק ברגע שיפתח נמל עזה לתנועה חופשית ובלתי מופרעת, בדיוק כמו בנמל אשדוד ובנמל חיפה, תסתיים באמת התנתקותה של ישראל מרצועת עזה. עד אז, ימשיך העולם – ובצדק – לראות את רצועת עזה כנתונה לכיבוש ישראלי ואת מדינת ישראל כאחראית לגורל התושבים בה.



לפרטים: אורי אבנרי 0505-306449

אדם קלר, דובר גוש שלום 03-5565804 או 054-2340749

קואליציה נגד המצור יעקב- 050-5733276, 09-7670801, סבסטיאן-050-6846056

גרטה ברלין דוברת מארגני המשט מדברת אנגלית

+357 99187275

Wonderment 05-31-2010 03:00 PM

Rally at White House, June 13
 
Tikkun statement:

Quote:

We regret and deplore the killings which took place as Israeli troops, in defiance of international law, boarded and assaulted, wounded many and killed some of the participants in a flotilla seeking to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza (itself a morally outrageous policy) to bring humanitarian aid. We ask all people of peace to dedicate at least fifteen minutes today (Memorial day in the US) to silent memorial for those peace activists who have been killed (and we call upon all synagogues around the world to say Kaddish for those people at their Shabbat services this coming weekend), and for prayer for the speedy recovery of all those wounded in this attack (mostly peace activists, but the Israeli soldiers who boarded the boats with violence). We invite all peace-loving people to attend a public memorial for those who died in this assault in Lafayette Park opposite the White House on Sunday, June 13, at 11 a.m-2 p.m., sponsored by Tikkun, the Network of Spiritual Progressives, and many other groups, and which will include a larger consideration of U.S. policies. Memorial prayers and prayers for healing will be said at 1 p.m.

Lyle 05-31-2010 03:17 PM

Re: Rally at White House, June 13
 
Where's the condemnation of the violence against the soldiers?

Lyle 05-31-2010 03:20 PM

"Useful Idiots Condemn Israel"
 
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.co...mn-israel.html

Quote:

The flotilla was organized by the Islamist government in Turkey to aid Hamas with the goal of opening up shipping channels for Turkey's new friend, Iran, to ship more and better weapons as it is doing to Hezbollah in Lebanon. Iran is busy turning Lebanon and Syria into one large missile launching pad against Israel, and a southern base in Gaza will complete the encirclement of Israel for the coming crisis over Iran's nuclear program.

The Europeans on the ships were cover, and the placement of an 18-month old child on these ships was the utmost cynical use of a human shield.

If getting humanitarian supplies to Gaza really was the goal, this flotilla was not necessary. The supplies would have been off-loaded in Eqypt or Israel and then shipped in by land after being checked for hidden weapons.

And that is the rub, only sea-based shipping would provide Iran with the mechanism for almost unlimited armament of Hamas. There is a limit to the quantity and size of missiles and other armaments which can be smuggled through tunnels from Egypt. That is why the sea blockade must be broken for Iran to get what it wants.

But the useful idiots (no offense to idiots) in the left-wing blogosphere ignore this reality, and use the incident for their ultimate goal, which is the cut off of U.S. support for Israel.

bjkeefe 05-31-2010 03:27 PM

Re: "Peace Activists" Attack Israeli Soldiers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle (Post 163275)
Dude... I'm just simply providing links to raw video footage of the event. Kind of like what your friend bjkeefe does 24/7 here.

As far as I can recall, I have never posted context-free video footage to make or even to support a point, let alone merely to stir up trouble.

I grant that I supply numerous links to news articles and blog posts, and the occasional clip from a TV news program, with the aim of calling attention to the inanity of people like you, but I'm sure that most people who hang out here can see that what I am doing is building a case by accruing examples relevant to the theme of a given thread; e.g., the Republican Party is turning into a cult, the far right is excessively prone to using violent rhetoric, Sarah Palin is jaw-droppingly stupid, wingnuts say the darnedest things, etc.

I am not surprised that you are unable to see the distinction, but, as with most things involving intellect and an appreciation for context, you are in a small minority compared to the rest of this community.

bjkeefe 05-31-2010 03:32 PM

Re: Wake up, USA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 163278)
With all due respect to the victims of this atrocity, it's relatively small potatoes compared to the usual mass murder of civilians when the IDF is unleashed on Palestinians. This will get plenty of headlines because the victims were foreigners (apparently).

But we have seen events like this repeatedly since the original sin of the Nakba. We have seen Ariel Sharon, perpetrator of some of the worst mass murders, rise to the level of national hero and prime minister. We have seen the wars in Lebanon (twice) and the siege of Gaza. House demolitions, decades-long torture policies, assassinations. I could go on and on.

The most recent example, it would appear, although we should probably wait for further reports before drawing any firm conclusions.

Lyle 05-31-2010 03:36 PM

haha... bjkeefe
 
Haha. Man you're ridiculous. :) And technically I did offer a comment... I wrote, "great footage". Haha.

bjkeefe 05-31-2010 03:46 PM

Re: haha... bjkeefe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle (Post 163292)
Haha. Man you're ridiculous. :) And technically I did offer a comment... I wrote, "great footage". Haha.

If you're persisting in retyping "haha" because you like to be a pest, save yourself some work. The jury has already rendered a verdict, for this and a myriad of other reasons, and now you're just pissing in the ocean.

Lyle 05-31-2010 03:47 PM

Re: haha... bjkeefe
 
I forgot to tell you, but your first comment is beyond disturbing. That you can write such hypocritical stupidity is disturbing. You really need help man. I mean seriously. Get help.

bjkeefe 05-31-2010 04:03 PM

Re: haha... bjkeefe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle (Post 163296)
I forgot to tell you, but your first comment is beyond disturbing. That you can write such hypocritical stupidity is disturbing. You really need help man. I mean seriously. Get help.

Just asserting it doesn't make it so. I invite you to explain yourself, an invitation which I am certain will be declined, or at best, met incoherently.

Lyle 05-31-2010 04:13 PM

I Think You're Disturbed
 
I think you're disturbed. This isn't the first time, with a straight face, you've complained about people doing the exact thing it is you do just because they disagree with you, have a different perspective than you, or of a different political stripe.

In your disturbed head you actually think you're absolutely right and can post or link whatever you want to about whomever, and then when someone else does it... oh, they're a Republican (I'm not even one)... can't do that. You call people stupid, but you're above being called stupid or your ideas stupid.

You're a joke of a human being and I wish you would get some help. You're a bit crazy. I'm serious. Seek help. You're not right in the head. Seriously. You are an embarrassment to yourself and your cherished cause.

bjkeefe 05-31-2010 04:23 PM

Re: I Think You're Disturbed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle (Post 163296)
I forgot to tell you, but your first comment is beyond disturbing. That you can write such hypocritical stupidity is disturbing. You really need help man. I mean seriously. Get help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 163298)
Just asserting it doesn't make it so. I invite you to explain yourself, an invitation which I am certain will be declined, or at best, met incoherently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle (Post 163304)
I think you're disturbed. ... In your disturbed head ... I wish you would get some help. You're a bit crazy. I'm serious. Seek help. You're not right in the head. ...

Repeating your assertions, no matter the number of times, does not count as explaining yourself.

As I said earlier, I am not at all surprised that you are unable to see the distinction between the posts I put up and the sort of context-free (and often borderline racist) trouble-making you indulge in, but that is of little concern, because I know pretty much everyone else here can make that distinction.

Lyle 05-31-2010 04:30 PM

Re: I Think You're Disturbed
 
Haha... yeah, that may actually be, but that just says something about you and the bh.tv commentariat. Haha. :)

Lyle 05-31-2010 04:44 PM

I Asked You A Question
 
Wonderment,

I asked you a question. Do you condemn the violence of the activists against the Israeli soldiers?

Lyle 05-31-2010 04:56 PM

"Peace Activist" Stabbing a Soldier
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buzOW...ayer_embedded#!

Enjoy the violence.

bjkeefe 05-31-2010 05:01 PM

Re: I Think You're Disturbed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle (Post 163310)
Haha... yeah, that may actually be, but that just says something about you and the bh.tv commentariat. Haha. :)

Not sure why you're laughing right after admitting that pretty much everyone here is smarter than you, but then, assuming rationality when dealing with you is rarely appropriate.

bjkeefe 05-31-2010 05:02 PM

Re: "Peace Activist" Stabbing a Soldier
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle (Post 163315)
Enjoy the violence.

Noted for the record.

Lyle 05-31-2010 05:08 PM

Dig that hole
 
Haha... keep digging your hole. Oooh... you say you and everybody else is "smarter" than me. Is that supposed to hurt my feelings? Haha. :)

bjkeefe 05-31-2010 05:09 PM

Re: Dig that hole
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle (Post 163320)
Haha... keep digging your hole. ... Haha. ...

Exactly.

Lyle 05-31-2010 05:10 PM

haha... notated for the record. classic keefe.
 
Oh. My. God. He's notated it for the record. Run away Lyle, run away.

Lyle 05-31-2010 05:11 PM

Re: Dig that hole
 
Precisely. :)

bjkeefe 05-31-2010 05:11 PM

Re: haha... notated for the record. classic keefe.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle (Post 163322)
Run away Lyle, run away.

.

Lyle 05-31-2010 05:12 PM

!
 
!

Wonderment 05-31-2010 05:53 PM

Re: Wake up, USA
 
Glenn Greenwald on Obama administration response:


Quote:

UPDATE VI: Among the countries condemning Israel for its attack are Russia, Turkey, India, China, Brazil, France, Spain and many more. By stark contrast, the White House issued a statement which conspicuously refused to condemn the Israelis (Obama "expressed deep regret at the loss of life in today’s incident, and concern for the wounded"), while the U.S. State Department actually hinted at condemning the civilians delivering the aid ("we support expanding the flow of goods to the people of Gaza. But this must be done in a spirit of cooperation, not confrontation").

Obama's call for "learning all the facts and circumstances" is reasonable enough, but all these other countries made clear that this attack could never be justified based on what is already indisputably known: namely, that the ship attacked by Israel was in international waters and it resulted in the deaths and injuries to dozens of civilians but no Israeli soldiers were killed and a tiny handful injured. In any event, Obama's neutrality will have to give way to a definitive statement one way or the other, and soon.

Wonderment 05-31-2010 06:07 PM

Re: I Asked You A Question
 
Quote:

Do you condemn the violence of the activists against the Israeli soldiers?
It is sad that Israeli violators of international law and defenders of an illegal blockade were hurt on the high seas in the course of their piracy, assault and abduction attempts.

Also sad is how perversely you have interpreted this event to serve your ideological view that everything the criminal Israeli government does in its perpetual war on Palestinians is acceptable.

Lyle 05-31-2010 06:11 PM

Re: Wake up, USA
 
Good for Obama. Fist bump baby.

Lyle 05-31-2010 06:11 PM

Wonderment is Pro-Violence/Against Self-Defense
 
Since you will not condemn the violence, I assume you agree with the violence that was used against the Israelis. Lets be honest you wanted to be right there with them stabbing, throwing, beating, and hurting them... didn't you? :)

By the way, what international law did Israel violate again?

JonIrenicus 05-31-2010 06:19 PM

Mission Accomplished
 
Dead "activists" in exchange for bad pr for Israel. In the minds of many of the organizers, I am convinced this was a positive trade. But then the lives of their own people were never that important, better they be used as tools to an end.


And in that they have succeeded. Congratulations.

Over 6000 posts/articles and counting.

http://news.google.com/news/more?pz=...cqk-3M&topic=h


Which was the plan and the hope all along.

Oh please let our own people be killed by Israelis so that a pr victory can be scored.

What a noble people.

Lyle 05-31-2010 06:21 PM

Amen
 
Amen.

Wonderment 05-31-2010 06:28 PM

Re: Wonderment is Pro-Violence/Against Self-Defense
 
International law...

Quote:

By the way, what international law did Israel violate again?
Quote:

UN Special Rapporteur for the Occupied Palestinian Territories, Richard Falk, urged Monday the international community to bring to justice those responsible for the killing of some 16 unarmed peace activist, when Israeli armed commandos stormed a convoy of ships carrying aid to Gaza.

"Israel is guilty of shocking behavior by using deadly weapons against unarmed civilians on ships that were situated in the high seas where freedom of navigation exists, according to the law of the seas," Mr. Falk said. "It is essential that those Israelis responsible for this lawless and murderous behavior, including political leaders who issued the orders, be held criminally accountable for their wrongful acts."

By sailing directly to Gaza, outside of Israeli waters, with cargo banned illegally by Israel, such as the 10,000 tonnes of badly needed concrete, toys, workbooks, chocolate, pasta and substantial medical supplies, the flotilla is exercising international law and upholding article 33 of the Geneva Convention which clearly states that collective punishment is a crime against humanity.

The hardships of Israel's closure of Gaza have been well documented by all human rights groups operating, most recently by Amnesty International in their Annual Human Rights Report concluding that the siege has "deepened the ongoing humanitarian crisis. Mass unemployment, extreme poverty, food insecurity and food price rises caused by shortages left four out of five Gazans dependent on humanitarian aid. The scope of the blockade and statements made by Israeli officials about its purpose showed that it was being imposed as a form of collective punishment of Gazans, a flagrant violation of international law."

For updates go to http://witnessgaza.com/ and http://www.freegaza.org/

bjkeefe 05-31-2010 06:33 PM

Re: I Asked You A Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 163334)
It is sad that Israeli violators of international law and defenders of an illegal blockade were hurt on the high seas in the course of their piracy, assault and abduction attempts.

TBogg's take.

Wonderment 05-31-2010 06:54 PM

Re: I Asked You A Question
 
The real gem is in the link to Commentary and Noah Pollack's column in which he calls the peace activists, including the Nobel Peace Prize winner and the 85-year-old Jewish concentration camp survivor "an Islamist lynch mob."
Quote:

There are claims that the Islamist lynch mob aboard one of the ships is actually a group of “peace activists.” Mahmoud Abbas says that the IDF “slaughtered” the “peace activists.” J Street should explain precisely which claims made by the Israeli government are “propaganda.” When the Gaza war started in 2008, J Street said that there was no difference between terrorists trying to murder Israeli civilians and the Israeli military trying to stop those attacks. Here we have another easy slide into moral equivalence.

It is a classically demented J Street product: there is moral equivalence; the refusal to place blame on the guilty party; the eager repetition of Islamist propaganda by classifying terrorists as civilians; outright sympathy with the lynch mob, which J Street incorrectly says was composed of civilians, and the expression of condolences for those who tragically lost their lives as they tried to beat and stab Jews to death; and, ultimately, the laying of blame on Israel, which created this whole situation in the first place with its cruel and pointless Gaza blockade.

Whatfur 05-31-2010 07:17 PM

Re: I Asked You A Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 163343)
The real gem is in the link to Commentary and Noah Pollack's column in which he calls the peace activists, including the Nobel Peace Prize winner and the 85-year-old Jewish concentration camp survivor "an Islamist lynch mob."

The company we keep. Pretty sure Lyle referred to them as Peace activists. Pretty sure he was going for irony. Including the above only adds to the irony. As peace activists, and as a pacifist yourself would you have been able to come up with a different response?


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