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-   -   The Evolution of God: Jewish Edition (Robert Wright & Mark Kleiman) (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=3480)

DenvilleSteve 07-17-2009 05:45 PM

Re: Religious conflict not about religion?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 120672)
Nowhere could this be more ironically than in Christianity. Jesus was a pacifist who never hurt a human being in his life, if you discount a minor tussle with moneychangers at the temple. The religion is based on turning the other cheek, forgiveness and reconciliation.

render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's is an implicit acceptance of the authority of the state. Since taxes then and now are used to finance a professional military, by Jesus saying you should pay your taxes, he is saying you should fund your government's military. I read the turn the other cheek admonition to apply to actions that dont injure you. It is the teaching that the rich man cant get into heaven, that is something Christians and the Church conviently forget about.

Wonderment 07-17-2009 05:47 PM

Re: Religious conflict not about religion?
 
Quote:

...by Jesus saying you should pay your taxes, he is saying you should fund your government's military.
I rest my case.

uncle ebeneezer 07-17-2009 05:53 PM

Re: What Do BHeads Think of DD??
 
Ouch!!

Simon Willard 07-17-2009 09:13 PM

Re: Religious conflict not about religion?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve (Post 120680)
render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's is an implicit acceptance of the authority of the state. Since taxes then and now are used to finance a professional military, by Jesus saying you should pay your taxes, he is saying you should fund your government's military. I read the turn the other cheek admonition to apply to actions that dont injure you. It is the teaching that the rich man cant get into heaven, that is something Christians and the Church conviently forget about.

I was taught that Jesus isn't accepting the authority of the state over a Christian. And he isn't saying you should pay your taxes. He is just saying that state and taxes are irrelevant. A rich man can go to heaven after death because at that point he is penniless by definition.

scted 07-18-2009 12:57 AM

Re: The Evolution of God: Jewish Edition (Robert Wright & Mark Kleiman)
 
I haven't watched a single vlog since the book came out. Is the book any good? The God vlogs are certainly a major turn-off for me.

sapeye 07-18-2009 10:02 PM

Re: The Evolution of God: Jewish Edition (Robert Wright & Mark Kleiman)
 
I have also not yet read the book, but I have listened to Bob talk about it several times. The title, while quite sexy, seems to be a misnomer in that he is actually writing about the evolution of human conceptualizations of God. Seems to me that there are two more intriguing questions: 1. Has our experience of the sacred -- as well as our conceptualizations of that experience -- evolved over time? 2. Does God him/her/itself evolve? If God is equated with universal consciousness, does such consciousness evolve, or is it the one thing that does not?

AemJeff 07-18-2009 10:08 PM

Re: The Evolution of God: Jewish Edition (Robert Wright & Mark Kleiman)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sapeye (Post 120746)
I'm a bit confused. I have also not yet read the book, but I have listened to Bob talk about it several times. The title, while quite sexy, seems to be a misnomer in that he is actually writing about the evolution of human ideas about God. The more intriguing question is: Does God him/her/itself evolve? If God is equated with universal consciousness, does such consciousness evolve, or is it the one thing that does not?

Why misleading? Taken literally, "evolution of God" is either incoherent or referential to something to which we have no access. "Evolution of 'God'" is too on the money for a good book title, which often seem to be required to contain some sort of double entendre. The only sense that seems to make sense is the sense in which it was intended, or at least so it seems to me.

sapeye 07-19-2009 01:55 AM

Re: The Evolution of God: Jewish Edition (Robert Wright & Mark Kleiman)
 
To my ear, the title purports to point to something beyond the thinking mind; to direct experience of the numinous. But the actual book seems to stick with conceptualizations of that direct experience. How we interpret such experience and whether it is of something Other or not, is, of course, open to disagreement. What seems less open to disagreement among those who have actually spent time looking is that we do have the capacity to experience something beyond conceptual thinking that sometimes seems like Other.

popcorn_karate 07-20-2009 08:51 PM

Re: The Evolution of God: Jewish Edition (Robert Wright & Mark Kleiman)
 
welcome to disputes!

the idea that god exists outside your mind is not going to be accepted as a fact by many in this discussion.

ricoyote 07-25-2009 02:58 PM

Re: The Evolution of God: Jewish Edition (Robert Wright & Mark Kleiman)
 
I saw Robert Wright on Bill Moyers the other night and enjoyed the interview...I think God is everything, even if everything is an illusion...we're all in this big dream and we have to wake up and not keep repeating the same consciousness that we limit ourselves to.

Aliceinwonderlanczz 07-28-2009 04:29 AM

Re: The Evolution of God: Jewish Edition (Robert Wright & Mark Kleiman)
 
My understanding of what the book says about the way religion will affect the near future is that globalism will create more opportunities for non-zero sum interactions and produce a merging of culture and religion to incorporate all of the abrahamic religions.

I would venture that we will see a mingling of Asian/Christian culture before a merger with the Muslim Faith. We have well entrenched non-zero relationships with Asia and in the last fifty years have already seen a broad cross fertilization of culture and spiritual practice. In the Muslim world our relationships are based on oil, a very zero sum commodity that is becoming scarcer and so conflict is growing.

Pressing against the evolution of a global universalist culture is the fact that we are in a transition of global dominance and according to the book it is hegemonic power that fosters non zero relationships. An additional destabilizing force is the difference in time scale. Evolution on the religous timeline occurs over centuries, our current politcal timescale to stave off disasterous, even nuclear, conflicts are measured in tens of years or less.

Is it possible that conscious awareness of the process of global concordance can hasten our adjustment in time to stave off disaster? Can we, for the first time in human history, turn a reactive consequence into a proactive process and how do we go about it?


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