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-   -   Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade) (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=6194)

Bloggingheads 10-27-2010 09:33 AM

Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 

badhatharry 10-27-2010 10:03 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Hmmmm two liberals again...fourth time running by my count. Could this be a mid-term election conspiracy? Is Bloggingheads leaning forward?

db63 10-27-2010 10:43 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Two liberals again ... underwhelming--and this is coming from a self-described member of the moderate left. Also, Adam Serwer continues his tradition of spouting out insipid liberal tropes like they're going out of style. Replace him with a journalist who actually knows something, please. Bloggingheads needs more academics (read: specialists) and fewer journalists who, although smart, due to the vagaries of their profession, cannot know enough about something to sustain an interesting conversation.

badhatharry 10-27-2010 10:50 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Sowell is pronouced 'soul'.

Dayo finds Fox to be partisan but NPR to be not partisan. She also characterizes Juan's background as 'checkered'. I suppose that is because he worked at Fox...enough said, eh?

It's also OK to use the term 'lawn jockey' if you know what it means.

Clarence Thomas is one of the more odious figures in American history...Dayo just wants to say that for the record. Condolezza Rice's book wasn't even that good but Dayo got a lot out of it.

Dayo would love to have substantive conversation except the right creates stick figures which prevents deep thought. Jeez!

It is impossible for a white person to be intimidated at a polling place. “Never bring another lawsuit against a black or other national minority, apparently no matter what they do.”

This conversation would have been better had at a small table at Starbucks and informs me about why I am not a liberal.

badhatharry 10-27-2010 10:53 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by db63 (Post 184722)
Also, Adam Serwer continues his tradition of spouting out insipid liberal tropes like they're going out of style.

sort of, like, what do you mean?

operative 10-27-2010 10:57 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 184723)
Sowell is pronouced 'soul'.

Dayo finds Fox to be partisan but NPR to be not partisan. She also characterizes Juan's background as 'checkered'. I suppose that is because he worked at Fox...enough said, eh?

It's also OK to use the term 'lawn jockey' if you know what it means.

Clarence Thomas is one of the more odious figures in American history...Dayo just wants to say that for the record. Condolezza Rice's book wasn't even that good but Dayo got a lot out of it.

Dayo would love to have substantive conversation except the right creates stick figures which prevents deep thought. Jeez!

It is impossible for a white person to be intimidated at a polling place. “Never bring another lawsuit against a black or other national minority, apparently no matter what they do.”

This conversation would have been better had at a small table at Starbucks and informs me about why I am not a liberal.

Thanks for the summary, now I don't have to bother listening to this diavlogue :D

At least neither Adam nor Dayo are as obnoxious or vicious as Michelle Goldberg.

Unit 10-27-2010 11:03 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Dayo discovers her inner libertarian!!! Whooohooo!

AemJeff 10-27-2010 11:05 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 184723)
...

Dayo finds Fox to be partisan but NPR to be not partisan. ....

Most people do. NPR has (and upholds) high journalistic standards across its news programming (ME, ATC.) FoxNews literally provides support (and money!) to the GOP and is a source of high paid employment for former and future GOP candidates.

operative 10-27-2010 11:17 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 184727)
Most people do. NPR has (and upholds) high journalistic standards across its news programming (ME, ATC.) FoxNews literally provides support (and money!) to the GOP and is a source of high paid employment for former and future GOP candidates.

Only liberals find NPR to not be partisan. NPR overwhelmingly employs people on the left, and regularly hosts shows that are on the left and even the far left (eg Counterspin).

I watch the PBS News Hour pretty regularly. But I watch it knowing that there is a left-wing bias to it. The regulars, ESPECIALLY Gwen Ifill, are transparently liberal, and often when they have two journalists on to discuss political matters, both are liberals.

badhatharry 10-27-2010 11:22 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 184727)
Most people do. NPR has (and upholds) high journalistic standards across its news programming (ME, ATC.) FoxNews literally provides support (and money!) to the GOP and is a source of high paid employment for former and future GOP candidates.

I like NPR and have spent whole days listening to it in my shop. I have always liked the diversity of subject matter and the long form interviews they air. That they don't have commercials helps, too.

I think they attempt to get a variety of opinions which helps the listener weigh the various ways of looking at a subject. But I do think there is a bias, subtle usually and nothing I can't see through, so I am not bothered by it.

As for Fox's affiliation with the GOP, I can't argue with that. And further, there are other media outlets which stump for and employ the democrats. The first ammendment is alive and well, even though the separation of church and state is not mentioned therein.

operative 10-27-2010 11:26 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 184730)
I like NPR and have spent whole days listening to it in my shop. I have always liked the diversity of subject matter and the long form interviews they air. That they don't have commercials helps, too.

I think they attempt to get a variety of opinions which helps the listener weigh the various ways of looking at a subject. But I do think there is a bias, subtle usually and nothing I can't see through, so I am not bothered by it.

As for Fox's affiliation with the GOP, I can't argue with that. And further, there are other media outlets which stump for and employ the democrats. The first ammendment is alive and well, even though the separation of church and state is not mentioned therein.

Speaking of church and state, how about negative political flier and church:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_uzVZA7KHnG...c_Postcard.jpg

Nothing like some rum, romanism, and rebellion to stir up the voters.

badhatharry 10-27-2010 11:26 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 184729)
Only liberals find NPR to not be partisan. NPR overwhelmingly employs people on the left, and regularly hosts shows that are on the left and even the far left (eg Counterspin).

I watch the PBS News Hour pretty regularly. But I watch it knowing that there is a left-wing bias to it. The regulars, ESPECIALLY Gwen Ifill, are transparently liberal, and often when they have two journalists on to discuss political matters, both are liberals.

You'd have to provide me with an example of Gwen Ifill's bias. I watch Washington Week pretty regularly and think she's an excellent moderator and hides her bias if she has one.
And for the News Hour, what about Shields and Brooks? Certainly Brooks is not hard right (kinda milktoast, actually) but he gives at least some balance to the format.

cacimbo 10-27-2010 11:28 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Wow, Olopade has psychic ability. Able to see into the mind of the black conservative and discern who is honestly expressing their beliefs and who is not.

operative 10-27-2010 11:33 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 184733)
You'd have to provide me with an example of Gwen Ifill's bias. I watch Washington Week pretty regularly and think she's an excellent moderator and hides her bias if she has one.

I do think that Ifill usually tries to hide her bias, but for an example of her bias, check out her condescending tweet re: Palin's 1773 comment. She was writing a book that was quite supportive of Obama in 2008 and apparently didn't disclose that before she was brought on to be a moderator for one debate. And I think it comes through in many subtle ways on Washington Week, so much that I stopped watching the show. To be sure, she's not Sean Hannity, but she still doesn't quite reach that level of non-biased for my taste.

At least she never made a boneheaded "Great Unwashed" comment.

Quote:

And for the News Hour, what about Shields and Brooks? Certainly Brooks is not hard right (kinda milktoast, actually) but he gives at least some balance to the format.
I think the segment is a wonderful example of PBS' faux balance. You pair a respectable but very, very partisan Democrat (Shields) with an obsequious pseudo-conservative who spent the 08 campaign drooling over Barack Obama and still spends much of his time griping about the GOP.

If they'd replace Brooks with one of the NRO guys who have subbed in, then I'd be a little warmer to the idea.

badhatharry 10-27-2010 11:33 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 184732)
Speaking of church and state, how about negative political flier and church:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_uzVZA7KHnG...c_Postcard.jpg

Nothing like some rum, romanism, and rebellion to stir up the voters.

Ha! but perhaps more interesting is the subject of church bulletin boards and state

operative 10-27-2010 11:35 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 184736)
Ha! but perhaps more interesting is the subject of church bulletin boards and state

That'll be an interesting case. My guess is that the woman will win.

db63 10-27-2010 11:36 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
In what world is Dayo living where the majority of Hamas members are using non-violent "techniques of power" (ugh, Foucault rears his ugly head again, this time watered down to an irredeemable degree)? A world that unfortunately does not conform with reality. Bloggingheads, please, get specialists, not "interested members of the public"!

bkjazfan 10-27-2010 11:39 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
I'll have to watch it to hear what is said about Thomas Sowell. I am curious: is he the most prolific, widely read black non fiction writer? He must publish one a year if not more.

Freshpez 10-27-2010 11:39 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Um, blacks who are conservative fail upward?

Wow. Just....wow.

bkjazfan 10-27-2010 11:46 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 184733)
You'd have to provide me with an example of Gwen Ifill's bias. I watch Washington Week pretty regularly and think she's an excellent moderator and hides her bias if she has one.
And for the News Hour, what about Shields and Brooks? Certainly Brooks is not hard right (kinda milktoast, actually) but he gives at least some balance to the format.

I, too, think you are being a little tough on Ifill. I don't detect any bias from her Washington Week show. Yes, there was the deal about her book and moderating the debate but that is about it. She has a pleasant demeanor and personality. Brookes may be a soft conservative but does provide some pushback to Shields. Plus, Shields is not a robotic Democrat. Recently, he said the article in the NY Times about Obama thinking the electorate was not ready for him or whatever it said (I didn't read it) was self defeating.

John

badhatharry 10-27-2010 11:47 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 184735)
I do think that Ifill usually tries to hide her bias, but for an example of her bias, check out her condescending tweet re: Palin's 1773 comment. She was writing a book that was quite supportive of Obama in 2008 and apparently didn't disclose that before she was brought on to be a moderator for one debate. And I think it comes through in many subtle ways on Washington Week, so much that I stopped watching the show. To be sure, she's not Sean Hannity, but she still doesn't quite reach that level of non-biased for my taste.

OK, but here's the thing...what are you going to watch? And what do you watch? I suppose CSPAN is the only truly unbaised source of news in the universe. Those evil cable outlet owners do a pretty good job of airing anything worth airing and with no commentary to tell you what to think. But it's pretty dry. Although I find the Senate hearings to be amazing theater but I work as I listen so I'm not just sitting there.

Starwatcher162536 10-27-2010 11:47 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 184729)
Only liberals find NPR to not be partisan. NPR overwhelmingly employs people on the left, and regularly hosts shows that are on the left and even the far left (eg Counterspin).

I watch the PBS News Hour pretty regularly. But I watch it knowing that there is a left-wing bias to it. The regulars, ESPECIALLY Gwen Ifill, are transparently liberal, and often when they have two journalists on to discuss political matters, both are liberals.

Magnitude matters.

brucds 10-27-2010 11:51 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
"neither Adam nor Dayo are as obnoxious or vicious as Michelle Goldberg"

Too bad. I'll probably skip this diavlog. I hate it when liberals go soft on the intellectual and moral cancer that constitutes contemporary "conservatism." In the immortal words of Jon Stewart: "Don't bring an NPR totebag full of David Sedaris books to a knife-fight."

Starwatcher162536 10-27-2010 11:55 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Did this NPR guy that was fired have a no public commentary clause in his contract? I can see why a news organization would want to keep their news/commentary hosts from airing opinions in the public sphere that could hurt their professional standing.

badhatharry 10-27-2010 11:55 AM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bkjazfan (Post 184740)
I'll have to watch it to hear what is said about Thomas Sowell. I am curious: is he the most prolific, wideloy read black non fiction writer? He must publish one a year if not more.

Not much is said actually. His name is just mispronounced. I think he came up in the 'lawn jockey, sellout' portion of the dialog.

operative 10-27-2010 12:03 PM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 184744)
OK, but here's the thing...what are you going to watch? And what do you watch? I suppose CSPAN is the only truly unbaised source of news in the universe. Those evil cable outlet owners do a pretty good job of airing anything worth airing and with no commentary to tell you what to think. But it's pretty dry. Although I find the Senate hearings to be amazing theater but I work as I listen so I'm not just sitting there.

That is true--that's why I watch PBS; it's at least at a higher level of engagement than CNN/Fox (we won't even bother to reference MSNBC). C-SPAN is great but yeah, it can be dry.

operative 10-27-2010 12:06 PM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bkjazfan (Post 184743)
I, too, think you are being a little tough on Ifill. I don't detect any bias from her Washington Week show. Yes, there was the deal about her book and moderating the debate but that is about it. She has a pleasant demeanor and personality. Brookes may be a soft conservative but does provide some pushback to Shields. Plus, Shields is not a robotic Democrat. Recently, he said the article in the NY Times about Obama thinking the electorate was not ready for him or whatever it said (I didn't read it) was self defeating.

John

I don't disagree with you too much, overall, outside of Washington Week. I think Ifill usually strives to be non-partisan in her professional capacities.

I don't think we're too far apart on Shields--he's not there to parrot Democratic party talking points every week. I've heard him criticize the Democrats on multiple fronts. But ideologically, he is certainly close to a doctrinaire liberal, whereas Brooks is a more liberal Republican. He'll give some pushback sometimes, but for a year and a half he was basically saying "yeah Obama's incredible." ;)

operative 10-27-2010 12:09 PM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Starwatcher162536 (Post 184745)
Magnitude matters.

True, and I wouldn't say that the PBS evening news is on par with Sean Hannity's show (though I think Counterspin, which airs on many NPR stations, is far and beyond the most ideologically extreme broadcast nationwide).

I think it's important to note that outside of CSPAN, there are no impartial news sources.

bkjazfan 10-27-2010 12:17 PM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 184750)
I don't disagree with you too much, overall, outside of Washington Week. I think Ifill usually strives to be non-partisan in her professional capacities.

I don't think we're too far apart on Shields--he's not there to parrot Democratic party talking points every week. I've heard him criticize the Democrats on multiple fronts. But ideologically, he is certainly close to a doctrinaire liberal, whereas Brooks is a more liberal Republican. He'll give some pushback sometimes, but for a year and a half he was basically saying "yeah Obama's incredible." ;)

I don't follow Brookes too closely so you may be right about his going along with Obama. Perhaps, that was not such an unusual occurrence considering the Libertarian bloggingheads like Brink Lindsay if not others who voted for Obama. I know now he has buyers remorse but what did he expect from a very liberal Democrat? A definite "headscratcher.

John

badhatharry 10-27-2010 12:20 PM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by db63 (Post 184738)
In what world is Dayo living where the majority of Hamas members are using non-violent "techniques of power" (ugh, Foucault rears his ugly head again, this time watered down to an irredeemable degree)? A world that unfortunately does not conform with reality. Bloggingheads, please, get specialists, not "interested members of the public"!

But isn't that where the fun lies? She's thinking outside the box as her professors encouraged her to do. I mean actually it is impossible to pin down reality. And so we are all left with our perceptions of it. As you allude to, however, one can only push the envelope so far until you begin deluding yourself. These two, I would guess live in a world where what they perceive is backed up by their friends...confirmation bias. I'm afraid we're all guilty of that at some level.

badhatharry 10-27-2010 12:24 PM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bkjazfan (Post 184752)
I don't follow Brookes too closely so you may be right about his going along with Obama. Perhaps, that was not such an unusual occurrence considering the Libertarian bloggingheads like Brink Lindsay if not others who voted for Obama. I know now he has buyers remorse but what did he expect from a very liberal Democrat? A definite "headscratcher.

John

the other headscratcher is Althouse.

AemJeff 10-27-2010 12:29 PM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 184754)
the other headscratcher is Althouse.

Althouse is easy. It doesn't seem that she's ideological at all. But she certainly knows what brings attention to Althouse.

TwinSwords 10-27-2010 12:31 PM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 184755)
Althouse is easy. It doesn't seem that she's ideological at all. But she certainly knows what brings attention to Althouse.

Althouse is extremely ideological -- and extremely right wing. Read her blog. Listen to her diavlogs. There will be no confusion or doubt once you've been exposed to her.

And to answer badhat's confusion: Althouse explained multiple times why she didn't vote for McCain: She wanted a "true" conservative, someone like Rush Limbaugh, and thought a weak conservative like McCain would damage conservatism and the conservative movement.

[Added:] I used to listen to Althouse on Wisconsin Public Radio; in that format she was much more obvious about her extreme conservatism. I'll grant that on BhTV she tries to pretend to be a bit more moderate (though her bias is still obvious and undeniable), so if all a person has been exposed to is her BHTV appearances, they might actually believe her "I'm a moderate" schtick.

TwinSwords 10-27-2010 12:36 PM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Great to see Adam and Dayo together.

look 10-27-2010 12:39 PM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 184751)
True, and I wouldn't say that the PBS evening news is on par with Sean Hannity's show (though I think Counterspin, which airs on many NPR stations, is far and beyond the most ideologically extreme broadcast nationwide).

I think it's important to note that outside of CSPAN, there are no impartial news sources.

This media research site doesn't reach the same conlusion:

http://bigmedia.org/2008/02/21/more-...ightward-tilt/

look 10-27-2010 12:42 PM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 184755)
Althouse is easy. It doesn't seem that she's ideological at all. But she certainly knows what brings attention to Althouse.

Mrow.

badhatharry 10-27-2010 12:54 PM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by look (Post 184759)
This media research site doesn't reach the same conlusion:

http://bigmedia.org/2008/02/21/more-...ightward-tilt/

A quick google search shows that people think of CSPAN as unbiased. Per the report you cited, Washington Journal has more conservative callers but that doesn't mean the guest is conservative. The 'think tank' statistics are compelling but here is CSPAN's report.

badhatharry 10-27-2010 01:04 PM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 184756)
And to answer badhat's confusion: Althouse explained multiple times why she didn't vote for McCain: She wanted a "true" conservative, someone like Rush Limbaugh, and thought a weak conservative like McCain would damage conservatism and the conservative movement.

Well that clears things up. However when I heard her report that she voted for Obama she didn't mention it as a protest vote, but rather that she had supported him. So, if what you are saying is true, she was being disingenuous.

I bet you're surprised.

Florian 10-27-2010 01:17 PM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 184762)
A quick google search shows that people think of CSPAN as unbiased. Per the report you cited, Washington Journal has more conservative callers but that doesn't mean the guest is conservative. The 'think tank' bit is confusing but here is CSPAN's report.

According to the CSPAN report you kindly provided, the breakdown of listeners is as follows:

30% Democrat
26% Republican
28% Independent

In other words: 54% conservative, unless you think American independents have minds independent of whichever way the political winds are blowing. I exclude you badhat, because you obviously have a mind.

TwinSwords 10-27-2010 01:18 PM

Re: Choose Your Own Adventure (Adam Serwer & Dayo Olopade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 184763)
Well that clears things up. However when I heard her report that she voted for Obama she didn't mention it as a protest vote, but rather that she had supported him. So, if what you are saying is true, she was being disingenuous.

I bet you're surprised.

I know you're kidding, but no, I'm not surprised. Althouse is a supremely dishonest individual. But her conservatism is irrefutable.

My take on her has always been this: Due to her sharp analytical mind and her legal training, she knows how to put forward the best possible argument. During the period when she rose to blogging prominence, conservatism as an ideology was deeply discredited and unpopular -- especially in an academic setting, and doubly so in Madison, Wisconsin. She recognized that branding her arguments as "conservative" would only serve to weaken them. Not for legitimate reasons having to do with the merits of what she was saying, but merely because in the 2005-2008 timeframe, conservatism was very unpopular. I suspect this is one factor in her constant lying about being a conservative.

But I'm as much of an Althousaholic as anyone: I read her blog daily for years. I've watched every diavlog she's done on BhTV. I have listened to at least a dozen of her debates on Wisconsin Public Radio. And I have listened to many of her old Audible Althouses.

If I were to judge her exclusively by her early BhTV appearances, it would be easier to be confused about her conservative bias; she worked hard to hide it. But if you look at her whole body of work, you can't escape the conclusion that she's deeply conservative.

Big Althouse Projects:

-- Before Obama was nominated: Destroy Hillary Clinton, defend Bush and Cheney. Defend GWoT, Iraq war.

-- After Palin was nominated: Defend and promote Palin. She was BhTV's go-to-'head for Palin defense for about a year straight.

-- From about mid-2009 - present: Defend and promote the tea party

-- Since Jan. 20, 2009: Damage Obama and the Democrats by promoting every meme, true or false, that can be used against them.


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