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Bloggingheads 06-03-2010 06:59 PM

A Hole in the Ocean (Andrew Revkin & David Roberts)
 

Baltimoron 06-03-2010 09:02 PM

Re: A Hole in the Ocean (Andrew Revkin & David Roberts)
 
Are you serious - nationalizing BP?!! Wouldn't that ugly task fall to the Con-Lib government in Britain? Still, I don't really want Ian Bremmer to be this right.

Ocean 06-03-2010 10:16 PM

Re: A Hole in the Ocean (Andrew Revkin & David Roberts)
 
Andrew Revkin!

But, no! Not a Hole in the Ocean! Noooooooo!!!!

:)

listener 06-03-2010 10:26 PM

Re: A Hole in the Ocean (Andrew Revkin & David Roberts)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 163898)
Andrew Revkin!

But, no! Not a Hole in the Ocean! Noooooooo!!!!

:)

Not to worry! Help is on the way!

(@1:38)

:)

breadcrust 06-04-2010 07:12 AM

Re: A Hole in the Ocean (Andrew Revkin & David Roberts)
 
Shorter David Roberts:

Five year Communist plans good.
Nationalize the oil industry. Che...eck.
Tea-partiers are crazy to associate Obama and friends with socialism!

Ocean 06-04-2010 07:37 AM

Re: A Hole in the Ocean (Andrew Revkin & David Roberts)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by listener (Post 163900)
Not to worry! Help is on the way!

(@1:38)

:)

Great! Thanks!

I knew the solution to all our problems would come from the wonderful world of artistic creation.

BornAgainDemocrat 06-04-2010 02:50 PM

Global Warming Religion
 
Like so many David Roberts just assumes a hard cap will prove necessary sooner or later and that it is just a matter of time before society agrees. To him it seems obvious. (Come on everybody, let's sing: "Give me that old time consensus, give me that old time consensus, it is good enough for me.") Even if he had the science on his side -- and so far he doesn't -- he is going to be sadly disappointed by the political and economic realities of the world we live in. For the sake of his own sanity I hope he can adapt.

fred66 06-04-2010 08:14 PM

Re: Global Warming Religion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BornAgainDemocrat (Post 163986)
Like so many David Roberts just assumes a hard cap will prove necessary sooner or later and that it is just a matter of time before society agrees. To him it seems obvious. (Come on everybody, let's sing: "Give me that old time consensus, give me that old time consensus, it is good enough for me.") Even if he had the science on his side -- and so far he doesn't -- he is going to be sadly disappointed by the political and economic realities of the world we live in. For the sake of his own sanity I hope he can adapt.

On what basis do you say that "so far he doesn't have science on his side"? The science is clearly and overwhelmingly on the side that we have a man made problem that we need to react to in order to solve. The debate is now about how we solve it.

The political and economic realities are indeed difficult to solve, probably the most difficult problem we've ever faced, but they don't trump physics.

What the hell is wrong with America? I thought this was the country that could recognise and respond to challenges, indeed welcome them. Now it's struggling to respond to such basic issues as energy supply, the very basis of its civilisation.

America is a pragmatic civilisation. Why is it not being pragmatic in the face of this existential energy crisis? It's not David Roberts who says a hard cap is necessary, it's virtually the entire reputable scientific community around the globe.

It's all well and nice to haggle amongst yourselves about which special industry or state interests will get the best deal out of a energy/climate bill, but meanwhile the rest of the world is waiting for you to make up your mind, so the rest of us can get on with planning around it. All very well to be a world leader, but it does mean that you have to actually lead. So get on with it.

David Roberts does a great review of things, lets see him here again please.

Nationalising BP? Hate the idea, but recent events make me wonder.

Namazu 06-05-2010 06:17 PM

Re: A Hole in the Ocean (Andrew Revkin & David Roberts)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by breadcrust (Post 163961)
Shorter David Roberts:

Five year Communist plans good.
Nationalize the oil industry. Che...eck.
Tea-partiers are crazy to associate Obama and friends with socialism!

Oh, please give him credit for the full complexity of his argument. I distinctly heard him say: liberals good and always have right idea; liberals too nice to play politics; liberals should lie more like Republicans do. It's all in the nuance.

bjkeefe 06-07-2010 02:24 PM

Just started listening, but ...
 
... I thought it would be good to have a cartoon, to lighten the depressing nature of the main topic at hand.

http://content.cartoonbox.slate.com/...f6c1ce0a28014b

Cartoon by Jim Morin, Miami Herald.

(h/t: The Comics Curmudgeon | x-posted)

bjkeefe 06-07-2010 03:32 PM

#shockedshocked
 
No! What were the odds?

bjkeefe 06-07-2010 04:09 PM

Re: Just started listening, but ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 164441)
... I thought it would be good to have a cartoon, to lighten the depressing nature of the main topic at hand. [...]

And now having finished watching, though it was depressing, I still want to thank Andrew and David for an informative discussion.

I also second their recommendation for the "Six Americas" article. There are some signs of encouragement there.

bjkeefe 06-07-2010 06:56 PM

Re: A Hole in the Ocean (Andrew Revkin & David Roberts)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by breadcrust (Post 163961)
Shorter David Roberts:

Five year Communist plans good.

Anything is better than secret plans put in place by the Chain-ster.

GCox 06-08-2010 01:15 AM

Re: A Hole in the Ocean (Andrew Revkin & David Roberts)
 
These guys are nuts. First I'm all for BP going out of business because of this catastrophe but the government signed a sweet heart deal limiting their liability to 74mil or something like that. The real crooks are the congressman who signed off on something so terrible. Everything Obama and the left do now to try to punish BP is nothing but government thuggery.

The rational thing is to realize that if the government hadn't screwed this up to begin with this catastrophe would have never happened. Either the insurance would have been sky high and the safety through the roof or the oil rig would have been considered too risky and never built.

It's mind numbing to hear these guys advocate for more government to lead us on an "energy quest". What get's lost in this god damn quest? Even if they knew how to do everything perfectly and they saved the world and led it to a perfect tomorrow I would still be made a slave today.

GCox 06-08-2010 01:29 AM

Re: A Hole in the Ocean (Andrew Revkin & David Roberts)
 
Oil Pollution Act of 1990 (OPA)
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...1:HR01465:@@@P
A list of sponsors for this bill. This is where the blame lies.

bjkeefe 06-08-2010 03:50 AM

Re: A Hole in the Ocean (Andrew Revkin & David Roberts)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 164485)

And seconded by Kenneth the Page.

EchinaceaBager 06-08-2010 08:20 PM

echinaceabager
 
Perhaps instead of using his presidential foot to kick some ass, when and if his superior intelligence allows him to ever figure out whose ass it is he has to kick, he should see to it that American entrepreneurship be rewarded and get the boom needed to protect the wetlands bought and transported. Confidence turns to frustration for Maine boom company. Leadership all Americans can be proud of!

Lana57d 06-11-2010 03:51 AM

Re: A Hole in the Ocean (Andrew Revkin & David Roberts)
 
A Hole in the Ocean...a song written and performed by Joe Monto and Steve Bartlett of Seattle, WA.
This song deserves a few minutes of your time to listen.
You will be hearing more about it in the near future.....
http://www.aholeintheocean.com/
if this link doesn't work for you, the song is on youtube also..
http://www.aholeintheocean.com/

Enjoy...share...
Thanks,
Lana


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