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Great DV John & Glenn!
I hope you continue to appear on BHTV no matter what. You are BHTV's most interesting "heads".
And I have to state I agree with Glenn and Ron Paul. We need "grown-up" answers to questions like: - Why do have bases all around the world? - Why are we the world's policeman? - Why are we so fanatically pro-Israel (right or wrong)? - Why are we thinking about going to war with Iran? Sadly, all we get is a lot of smears and bullshit. |
Re: Great DV John & Glenn!
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Re: Great DV John & Glenn!
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Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
Congratulations, John, on your soon to be parenthood!
I'm sort of sick of the discussion about Ron Paul. I won't comment except to say that someone will have to define what "intellectualism" is. I'm starting to suspect that the likes of Perry have lowered the bar so much that anyone with some degree of intelligence and education can be called an intellectual. Needless to say, I don't see Ron as an intellectual. His arguments are really not original or nuanced. He's repeating some basic old fashioned libertarian principles. He's more dogmatic than flexible in his thinking. Anyhow, I'll leave it there, since I don't think we have an accepted definition of intellectualism. Then John and Glenn moved on to talk about race, racism and Obama. Wow. I was quite astonished to hear Glenn being so dismissive of racism as if it was a past issue. I was equally astonished to hear him question whether Obama is "black" enough or whether his election has been a victory for African Americans in this country. My reaction is that, racism is very much present and there are groups that are vigilant and eager to promote their racist sentiments in a nostalgia for the old good white times. At the same time, I also think that Obama's election has done an incredible good to the African American cause by proving that an African American man can excel and reach the highest office in this country, and do his job with the highest dignity and competence. He doesn't have to be perfect or make everybody happy or be the best. By virtue of being an intelligent and accomplished president he has vindicated the cause. The kind of argumentation that Glenn engaged in when he analyzed whether Obama is a real African American, is understandable, but really mostly meaningful to an intellectual African American. As John said, for the vast majority of people, Obama is a black man. People who can make a distinction between a real African American and a mixed race direct descendant of an African man, are either already fully supportive of the AA cause (like Glenn) or those who are recalcitrant racists and are looking for excuses to take away credit from this black man that we have as a President. In terms of diversity, there are models of integration and multiculturalism that we should be looking at instead of assuming that we need homogenous groups to achieve social harmony. It is an interesting topic, and perhaps there could be a lengthier discussion about it. Is there more that we need to eliminate racism? Of course, there's much more to do until poverty and race no longer get stratified together. But, we've come a long way. Let's not make nuance take away from the accomplishment. Once again I get the impression that both John and Glenn have at different times engaged in some kind of counterintuitive exercise, to excess. In trying not to be biased towards African American causes, they end up being excessively critical of their own, or optimistic about other groups, or skeptical about the depth of racism still present. I'm not suggesting that they should be paranoid about a renaissance of racism, but rather that they don't try so hard to transcend. I agree with what others have said, it doesn't matter whether we agree or disagree with what these two have to say, it's always thought provoking in some form. I'm glad that they will be back. |
Re: advice from Ron Paul
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But as long as people continue to say these types of people aren't viable candidates because certain special interests don't support them then this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and you're stuck with spineless cronies who are bought and paid for by big business. |
Re: How to Murder blacks and get away with it - advice from Ron Paul
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I don't have time to explain this to you. And even if I did, it wouldn't convince you. I can only hope that someday you'll try to understand the issues from a different perspective. I am glad for the Civil Rights movement. I suspect Ron Paul is as well. But the movement and the CRA are two different things. I think the 1964 CRA should be repealed. What? Do you want to call me a racist? I'm not racist but I support racists? No. The 1964 Act should be repealed and the 1875 Act, which is nearly identical, should be reinstated. The 14th Amendment should be restored to its original intent (to protect blacks after the Civil War). Then all the separate but equal doctrine would die. Why? Because Jim Crow could only exist with a weak 14th Amendment. Ron Paul may not have the same idea that I do, but I'd guess it's something along similar lines. And even if he wasn't, we have freedom of association in this country. If we didn't, the government could control which races you could marry. Freedom isn't free. You hate libertarians because you don't understand them. They may be wrong, but they do not have the malicious intent that you think they have. |
Re: Great DV John & Glenn!
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So we can be a more effective policeman for the world. Quote:
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This isn't going to change any time soon. Quote:
Hope this helps. |
Re: Diversity, social capital, liberty, and Identity
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My ultimate conclusion is that K was wrong. And if he wasn't wrong, then salvation is virtually impossible, to which he might say is precisely the fucking point. But I can't imagine the good life having to be so hard. |
unlikely
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Re: Diversity, social capital, liberty, and Identity
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He would be proud of you. Quote:
His devotional works. Works of Love. and Purity of Heart is to Will One Thing. actually describe what it means to be a christian from a christian POV, which has little to do with the philosophy he engages in elsewhere. His philosophical project pretty much aimed at accomplishing something like the impression you got from it. That a systematic philosophy of Christianity is either wrong or impossible. Thanks for the welcome back. |
Re: advice from Ron Paul
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Was he really so clueless about what was being written under his name? Or did he kinda know, but kinda looked the other way, or kinda didn't give it much thought because it wasn't something that rang repugnant to him? I don't know, but those are the kinds of things that I would be wondering about. Quote:
But there are many people whose ideas and prejudices are somewhat latent. They go under the radar. And it depends on how much stimulation they get they will bring them back to surface or they will bury them more. And there are many people who fall in that category. That's why all this code language, subliminal messaging (so to speak) works in interesting ways. It's the same phenomenon that we talked about a few days ago when we talked about using the term "evil" to refer to other countries, or leaders or movements. It taps on deep beliefs that because they aren't fully brought to awareness, they are more difficult to be challenged or questioned. A whole set of associations are attached to them and many aspects are assumed instead of being analyzed. Quote:
But most importantly, even if we talked about foreign policy only, how much support do you think Paul would get from his own party? The effect of his anti-interventionism talk is a chimera. Quote:
In this case this is not about self fulfilling prophecies. This is common sense. Paul's ideas about war and military intervention are far from those of his party. He's being used to tap on this sentiment because people are fed up with the economy and they're starting to see how much wealth has been drained by these senseless wars. But we can't allow ourselves to be fooled thinking that the Republican Party will have a sudden transformation. That kind of change, if it comes, it will be slow and gradual and won't come from Republicans. I don't know why you thought that the right term for your description above was "spineless". Those who avoid wars and try non-violent means of conflict resolution are called "spineless". Those who think that there's an obligation to care for those who are in need, or old, or who think that the death penalty is wrong are called "spineless". And of course, it's almost automatic that Democrats or liberals in general are called spineless. So what now? Being bought by big money is being "spineless"? I could think of all kinds of other names, but spineless seems to be directed elsewhere and most importantly, coming from the Party of War, Oil and Wealth. |
Re: unlikely
Always faithful, badhat, very faithful.
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Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
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Hmmm, maybe you're right about that racist mentailty. Puts me in mind of Joe Biden's "articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," comment. Quote:
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I've got a great idea! How about people thinking of themselves as individuals and quiting the search for villians. And if racism rears its ugly head, deal with it in a rational manner or ignore it if it's not hurting anyone (besides the person who holds the view). |
Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
My thoughts on the Putnam study, Be grateful diversity reduces trust.
A while back I got into a disagreement with Will Wilkinson over the issue of parents/cultures imposing their views on children, sparked by a raid on a community from the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints. That was driven by my extreme position on the pluralist vs rationalist divide. Glenn really went off a lot on self-admitted rants. Normally I'd think that kind of bad etiquette on the part of a diavlogger, but Glenn is so entertaining and really cuts into the heart of serious issues. John sometimes looked uncomfortable, but he rolls with it. |
Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
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Or maybe John and Glenn could just keep talking about reality in 21st Century America, and leave out all the left wing jargon and nonsense. |
Re: Great DV John & Glenn!
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Just to highlight your most egregious error: the problem with Iran has nothing to do with Israel. It has to do with the fact loose weapons of mass destruction may cause havoc anywhere in the developed or developing world. |
Re: Great DV John & Glenn!
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I think Rush Limbaugh could've done better. |
Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
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Is this your preamble to your New Year's resolution? You disappoint me again, cousin. |
Re: Great DV John & Glenn!
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The base in Qatar is quite obvious. The Middle East is an important strategic and economic region to the United States. Safeguarding the flow and supply of oil isn't just a matter of money for corporations, its a matter of life and death. It greases the wheels of global commerce which has short circuited the historical cycle of violence. It keeps food prices down, both here and abroad. South Korea? Anti-Communism, again. The presence of those troops saved the liberty of South Korea. If they hadn't been there all this time, the Maoist regime in China would have easily allowed the Norks to gobble them up. Now? While China is unlikely to allow such an action, and it is implausible that the Norks could win even if they did, the 30,000 American troops are an ante into the politics of the region. The reason why this is important is that East Asia is a major source of both American commerce and capital. To remove those troops, and our fleet, is to cede the politics of the region to the Chinese. These are the practical matters surrounding the deployment of forces. The moral component is that the heights of global power we're discussing were taken with the sacrifice of American citizens. The blood itself was the price paid for position. To sacrifice position when there is still benefit is to cheapen the currency the position was bought with. Quote:
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How are those answers? |
Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
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And in any event, as you say: Quote:
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What was also interesting was what was reported last week by, I believe, Dave Weigle. (Can't remember precisely the source.) But he said that Wallace had made a tactical decision to support white supremacy in order to promote libertarianism, but years later discovered that he was having more luck trying to tie libertarianism to the anti-war movement. If this reporting is accurate, then basically Paul is just using people like Wonderment to advance the agenda that is really important to Paul: eliminating government and laying the groundwork for the total tyranny of private power -- i.e., the thing that would result if Paul succeeded in wiping out democracy and government: The sole hedge (government) the people have against the tyranny of private power would be eliminated. |
Re: Great DV John & Glenn!
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Re: Great DV John & Glenn!
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Re: Ron Paul is not really running for president
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Re: advice from Ron Paul
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Paul has been a devoted political activist promoting libertarian extremism his entire life. It just doesn't pass the smell test that he wasn't aware of what was in the newsletter he owned, and which he was actively promoting, publishing, and selling -- the newsletter that was written in his own name and which purported to reflect his own views. In Jamie Kurchick's reporting from 2008 we learned that Paul would take stacks of his newsletters around with him on the lecture circuit during the 1980s and 1990s to sell them on tables and sign up new subscriptions. In my view, it's just impossible that he was doing this but didn't know what those newsletters contained. |
Re: Great DV John & Glenn!
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Your point about proxy actions has some truth, but the real reason is larger and loftier than this. Israel is like a wedge of western modernity into the middle east. |
Re: How to Murder blacks and get away with it - advice from Ron Paul
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Re: Great DV John & Glenn!
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With regard to loose nukes, I'll just say that some of us have questions about Iran's reliability. Do you really think the mullahs would attack Israel? Oh, make my day! That could be the trigger that gives us the moral cover to completely transform Iran, if not the entire region, for the better. |
Re: advice from Ron Paul
Also, with the kind of sentiment that was being passed on in the newsletters it's highly unlikely that no one would have brought it up to his attention at the time.
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Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
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Re: Diversity, social capital, liberty, and Identity
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Interesting. I actually see that as a point in Kierkegaard's favor, but then I am probably an odd duck. To quote the Tragically hip, it's a good life if you don't weaken. |
Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
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My New Years resolution is to stop being a racist - so I will quit Rev. Wright's church starting January 2, 2012. |
Re: Great DV John & Glenn!
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Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
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Re: Great DV John & Glenn!
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Re: advice from Ron Paul
Paul has a credibility problem in trying to deny knowledge of the racist screeds published in his newsletters. It's not as though it's just a matter of hypersensitive reaction to an objectional word or turn of phrase popping up a time or two over the years. Since blatantly racist material was a recurring theme in newsletters he specifically published under his name (e.g. The Ron Paul Political Report), not just in some outside publication that also carried his writings on occasion, the most benevolent spin that can be put on it would seem to be that he was an unprincipled hack willing to publish anything under his name with complete disregard to the contents so long as there was a buck in it.
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Re: Goldbugs worse than closeted racists
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But it doesn't really matter at this point in time why Ron Paul (or anyone else) is opposed to war, just that he is. To make progress in dismantling US militarism, warmongering and war-making, we need a broad-based coalition. This will include anti-war Christian Evangelicals (and other faith communities), libertarians, difficult-to-categorize Ron Paul types (isolationists and anti-UN-ers?) as well as a whole range of lefty groups whose cultural roots are found in the Democratic Party, Greens, socialism, veganism, environmentalism, worker rights, feminism and what-have-you. Building that kind of broad coalition is the only way to get the power elite of both (war) parties to pay attention and start to make changes. Think of it like the nonviolent struggle to overthrow and terminate Soviet Communism. Plenty of unsavory and seemingly mutually exclusive interest groups came together in common cause (anarchists, the Pope, liberal intellectuals, trade unionists, capitalist entrepreneurs, etc.). It was a big project. |
Re: advice from Ron Paul
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Re: Great DV John & Glenn!
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Re: Great DV John & Glenn!
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The much larger concern is loose nukes that show up without a clear return address. That's why I argue that concern about Iran is unrelated to Israel. |
Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
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Government is highly imperfect, as we all know. And in the present era, it has almost entirely been captured by corporate and other wealthy interests. But even in this highly imperfect form, (a) it is still at least somewhat responsive to the will of the population, and (b) the potential always exists to improve it, and to make it more responsive to the will of the people, and (c) there are still a lot of laws on the books left over from a less extreme period in American history (the early- and mid-20th century) that provide important protection for the population. So, if you doubt that even our imperfect government still provides critical protection from untrammelled private power, just wait until you see what Republicans repeal and rollback in the years ahead. Maybe this is news to you. Maybe you haven't interacted with enough Ron Paul people, or maybe you don't know enough real libertarians, but hatred of democracy and a belief that the government should almost entirely be eliminated is standard fare among the Ron Paul types. It is Ron Paul, the Rothbardian Libertarians, and the Ron Paul followers who go around insisting, constantly, that "the US is not a democracy; it's a Republic." That particular search query returns over 1 million results, so this should not be news to anyone. The basic Rothbarian idea, embraced in total by Ron Paul, is that almost everything the government does is illegal. So, yes, you could still vote, but it would be a mere formality, because the courts in Ron Paul's idea of a properly functioning system would smash any legislation that exceeded the bounds of a very limited conception of constitutionality. Here's Ayn Rand acolyte and libertarian thinker Leonard Peikoff on democracy: "The American system is a constitutionally limited republic, restricted to the protection of individual rights. In such a system, majority rule is applicable only to lesser details, such as the selection of certain personnel. But the majority has no say over the basic principles governing the government. It has no power to ask for or gain the infringement of individual rights." |
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