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-   -   An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=7289)

look 01-11-2012 01:27 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
http://estergoldberg.typepad.com/.a/...8aea970b-500wi

badhatharry 01-11-2012 06:42 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by look (Post 236681)

golly, i wish i knew what this meant.

handle 01-11-2012 07:18 PM

It means:
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 236685)
golly, i wish i knew what this meant.

shhhhh... I have no idea either, but Badhat has indicated she will no longer read my posts, 'cause I'm a "crazy man" who never makes "sense". Too bad we can't see through the internets and get a sense of the decision processes that are about to take place. Does anyone remember "Scanners"?

But seriously folks, I'm just really wondering when the "guest count" is going to stop hovering around 140 to 150. Is there really that many lurkers out there or were those numbers padded all along? Surely this is going to drop off at some point.
Especially after they, if they are real, get a load of this particular subthread.

AemJeff 01-11-2012 07:41 PM

Re: It means:
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by handle (Post 236687)
shhhhh... I have no idea either, but Badhat has indicated she will no longer read my posts, 'cause I'm a "crazy man" who never makes "sense". Too bad we can't see through the internets and get a sense of the decision process that is about to take place. Does anyone remember "Scanners"?

But seriously folks, I'm just really wondering when the "guest count" is going to stop hovering around 140 to 150. Is there really that many lurkers out there or were those numbers padded all along? Surely this is going to drop off at some point.
Especially after they, if they are real, get a load of this particular subthread.

That "guest count" is accounted for mostly by various bots.

handle 01-11-2012 07:43 PM

Re: It means:
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 236688)
That "guest count" is accounted for mostly by various bots.

Ah ha. So I guess they won't be joining the discussion? AI anyone?

look 01-11-2012 07:43 PM

Re: It means:
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 236688)
That "guest count" is accounted for mostly by various bots.

You mean...we're not fascinating?

handle 01-11-2012 07:47 PM

Trolling all bots
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by handle (Post 236689)
ah ha. So i guess they won't be joining the discussion? Ai anyone?

011001100111010101100011011010110010000001100001
011011000110110000100000011110010110111101110101
001000000110001001101111011101000111001100100001

handle 01-12-2012 08:16 PM

Re: Trolling all bots
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by handle (Post 236691)
011001100111010101100011011010110010000001100001
011011000110110000100000011110010110111101110101
001000000110001001101111011101000111001100100001

Guess it's a few years off yet, sure google is on it, though.

ledocs 01-12-2012 09:00 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Not to be contrary, look, but this approach is rather inelegant.

I have now posted in Disqus. It looks to me like the situation is as follows. Under vbulletin, there was the commenting world and the diavlog world. The two things were closely related but distinct, and they were related in a nonhierarchical way. Often the commenters thought that their discussions were more interesting than the diavlogs, and often they were. In the new dispensation, comments are clearly subordinate to the diavlogs and have no life independent of the diavlogs.

Bob, you are simply wrong to place so much importance upon the comments appearing below the video window. I can see why one might think that this was terribly important from the point of view of improving traffic to the site, but I think it's a business error. A better approach, in my view, would be simply to point users to the user forum, which would have an independent existence.

I recently had occasion to read a lot of user comments at the NYT site, comments that were provoked by Thomas Friedman's recent column about the Israel lobby. The comments were fine, indiscernibly different from those here. I think everything that has ever been said about US-Israel relations and about Israel's history was said in the comments. But the format of the comments at the NYT site is not conducive to creating a commenting community, and it does not need to be.

It's a mistake to conclude anything from what works for comments sections in print media or at other sites that are not presenting "televised" dialogues between two people. By "what works," I mean what works to increase demand for the underlying content. In any case, I don't see how there can be a commenting community in which there are actual social relations among commenters under Disqus as now implemented at bhtv, unless I am missing something. It is quite clear that there is a master-slave relationship between diavlog and comments in the new regime, and that simply cannot work in even the intermediate term.

graz 01-12-2012 09:14 PM

Thumbs up to this.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ledocs (Post 236751)
Not to be contrary, look, but this approach is rather inelegant.

I have now posted in Disqus. It looks to me like the situation is as follows. Under vbulletin, there was the commenting world and the diavlog world. The two things were closely related but distinct, and they were related in a nonhierarchical way. Often the commenters thought that the discussions were more interesting than the diavlogs, and often they were. In the new dispensation, comments are clearly subordinate to the diavlogs and have no life independent of the diavlogs.

Bob, you are simply wrong to place so much importance upon the comments appearing below the video window. I can see why one might think that this was terribly important from the point of view of improving traffic to the site, but I think it's a business error. A better approach, in my view, would be simply to point users to the user forum, which would have an independent existence.

I recently had occasion to read a lot of user comments at the NYT site, comments that were provoked by Thomas Friedman's recent column about the Israel lobby. The comments were fine, indiscernibly different from those here. I think everything that has ever been said about US-Israel relations and about Israel's history was said in the comments. But the format of the comments at the NYT site is not conducive to creating a commenting community, and it does not need to be.

It's a mistake to conclude anything from what works for comments sections in print media or at other sites that are not presenting "televised" dialogues between two people. By "what works," I mean what works to increase demand for the underlying content. In any case, I don't see how there can be a commenting community in which there are actual social relations among commenters under Disqus as now implemented at bhtv, unless I am missing something. It is quite clear that there is a master-slave relationship between diavlog and comments in the new regime, and that simply cannot work in even the intermediate term.

I wholeheartedly agree. Also, Bob is not "really" listening. He has moved on. Whether we follow suit matters little in the new scheme attached to Disqus. The commenting "community", while Bob continues to flatter it as if it is integral, has been relegated to an auxiliary role at best. It is neither a driver nor a critical component of the sites relative success. I don't think it ever was critical to funding or measurable traffic. Well, except for the most interested participants and attendant observers. And it clearly will be less necessary to monitor or maintain under the Disqus regime. Our time has passed. Except of course for the fact that we're still posting in vBulletin. The clock is ticking.

Ocean 01-12-2012 09:17 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ledocs (Post 236751)
Not to be contrary, look, but this approach is rather inelegant.

I have now posted in Disqus. It looks to me like the situation is as follows. Under vbulletin, there was the commenting world and the diavlog world. The two things were closely related but distinct, and they were related in a nonhierarchical way. Often the commenters thought that the discussions were more interesting than the diavlogs, and often they were. In the new dispensation, comments are clearly subordinate to the diavlogs and have no life independent of the diavlogs.

Bob, you are simply wrong to place so much importance upon the comments appearing below the video window. I can see why one might think that this was terribly important from the point of view of improving traffic to the site, but I think it's a business error. A better approach, in my view, would be simply to point users to the user forum, which would have an independent existence.

I recently had occasion to read a lot of user comments at the NYT site, comments that were provoked by Thomas Friedman's recent column about the Israel lobby. The comments were fine, indiscernibly different from those here. I think everything that has ever been said about US-Israel relations and about Israel's history was said in the comments. But the format of the comments at the NYT site is not conducive to creating a commenting community, and it does not need to be.

It's a mistake to conclude anything from what works for comments sections in print media or at other sites that are not presenting "televised" dialogues between two people. By "what works," I mean what works to increase demand for the underlying content. In any case, I don't see how there can be a commenting community in which there are actual social relations among commenters under Disqus as now implemented at bhtv, unless I am missing something. It is quite clear that there is a master-slave relationship between diavlog and comments in the new regime, and that simply cannot work in even the intermediate term.

Perhaps Bob isn't too interested in having a commenting community. We are interested, but that doesn't mean that anyone else is.

Bob may want to have comments showing under the videos to show something about what kind of people are interested in those discussions. But beyond that, I don't think that the community part of the deal has much profitability for Bob.

handle 01-12-2012 09:37 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 236753)
Perhaps Bob isn't too interested in having a commenting community. We are interested, but that doesn't mean that anyone else is.

Bob may want to have comments showing under the videos to show something about what kind of people are interested in those discussions. But beyond that, I don't think that the community part of the deal has much profitability for Bob.

He said he wanted intelligent, cerebral commentary. Which is why I tended to stay away from the main diavlog section. Then I saw the writing on the wall 6 months ago and bailed. When the inevitable took place, I unbanned myself.
I think he wants the commentary to reflect, and more importantly, display a highbrow and ideologically diverse viewership, and this format encourages us riffraff to riff here. Present company not included, of course.

look 01-12-2012 09:37 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ledocs (Post 236751)
Not to be contrary, look, but this approach is rather inelegant.
I have now posted in Disqus. It looks to me like the situation is as follows. Under vbulletin, there was the commenting world and the diavlog world. The two things were closely related but distinct, and they were related in a nonhierarchical way. Often the commenters thought that the discussions were more interesting than the diavlogs, and often they were. In the new dispensation, comments are clearly subordinate to the diavlogs and have no life independent of the diavlogs.

Bob, you are simply wrong to place so much importance upon the comments appearing below the video window. I can see why one might think that this was terribly important from the point of view of improving traffic to the site, but I think it's a business error. A better approach, in my view, would be simply to point users to the user forum, which would have an independent existence.

I recently had occasion to read a lot of user comments at the NYT site, comments that were provoked by Thomas Friedman's recent column about the Israel lobby. The comments were fine, indiscernibly different from those here. I think everything that has ever been said about US-Israel relations and about Israel's history was said in the comments. But the format of the comments at the NYT site is not conducive to creating a commenting community, and it does not need to be.

It's a mistake to conclude anything from what works for comments sections in print media or at other sites that are not presenting "televised" dialogues between two people. By "what works," I mean what works to increase demand for the underlying content. In any case, I don't see how there can be a commenting community in which there are actual social relations among commenters under Disqus as now implemented at bhtv, unless I am missing something. It is quite clear that there is a master-slave relationship between diavlog and comments in the new regime, and that simply cannot work in even the intermediate term.

I think it's elegant within the restraints of the system. As I told Stephanie, I don't have to click between forums, scrolling up and down. All replies come to my mailbox. They can then be deleted as they are read. If any need a reply, I don't delete till answered, which helps me keep track of making sure I answer posts addressed to me.

look 01-12-2012 09:44 PM

Re: Thumbs up to this.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graz (Post 236752)
I wholeheartedly agree. Also, Bob is not "really" listening. He has moved on. Whether we follow suit matters little in the new scheme attached to Disqus. The commenting "community", while Bob continues to flatter it as if it is integral, has been relegated to an auxiliary role at best. It is neither a driver nor a critical component of the sites relative success. I don't think it ever was critical to funding or measurable traffic. Well, except for the most interested participants and attendant observers. And it clearly will be less necessary to monitor or maintain under the Disqus regime. Our time has passed. Except of course for the fact that we're still posting in vBulletin. The clock is ticking.

I get what you mean that Bob has moved on. But what I don't think you get is that he does care about us. I think he is appreciative of our appreciation, hence all the Commenter Klatches with Aryeh and others, even post-changeover. He's a hella busy guy, and it should count as something that he takes the time.

When I think about it, it's like the new commenters at Disqus are puppies who don't have preconceptions about 'how things should be.' We're like loyal old dogs, and Bob cares, but he can't do much more than leave this site open.

Honestly, I think Bob should probably just let us post as much as we want about current diavlogs (without linking from there to here), and little by little, we'll probably be drawn into Disqus.

Wonderment 01-12-2012 11:33 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

I have now posted in Disqus. It looks to me like the situation is as follows. Under vbulletin, there was the commenting world and the diavlog world. The two things were closely related but distinct, and they were related in a nonhierarchical way. Often the commenters thought that the discussions were more interesting than the diavlogs, and often they were. In the new dispensation, comments are clearly subordinate to the diavlogs and have no life independent of the diavlogs.
Agree. It's disempowering for commenters. There's no way to put lipstick on that pig.

Quote:

Bob, you are simply wrong to place so much importance upon the comments appearing below the video window. I can see why one might think that this was terribly important from the point of view of improving traffic to the site, but I think it's a business error. A better approach, in my view, would be simply to point users to the user forum, which would have an independent existence.
I don't see how it's a business error. It's a decision to the detriment of the existing commenting community, but that doesn't make it bad business. "Creative destruction," as Mitt Romney would put it.

Bheads was failing as a business. It was unsustainable, and now Bob and the new non-profit are trying something new.

I don't really get how a non-profit disentangles itself from Bob's job at the Atlantic, but that's really off-topic.

If I were marketing Blogginheads 2.0, I'd say something clever about synergies, but I'm not, so I won't.

Florian 01-13-2012 07:10 AM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ledocs (Post 236751)
It is quite clear that there is a master-slave relationship between diavlog and comments in the new regime, and that simply cannot work in even the intermediate term.

But remember in the dialectic of master and slave, there is a victor: le bourgeois, the synthesis of master and slave.

So perhaps an intermediate term is possible. We can still use this forum, as long as it exists, to talk about topics tangentially related to the diavlogs, as well as all the other unrelated topics that were of no interest in any case to anyone but the regular commenters.

stephanie 01-13-2012 12:39 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Florian (Post 236771)
So perhaps an intermediate term is possible. We can still use this forum, as long as it exists, to talk about topics tangentially related to the diavlogs, as well as all the other unrelated topics that were of no interest in any case to anyone but the regular commenters.

For the time-being, at least. It's not a long-term solution and I think Wonderment is right that the forum was an extra thing and not part of the current financial model, so we can't expect things to change to become more like what we liked/are looking for, but no reason to stop using the forum while it still exists.

ledocs 01-14-2012 08:37 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
It's not a business error, ipso facto. But Bob's presumption is that intelligent comments directly below the video window will draw additional viewers. So I just question whether this is true. If there were some well-known commenter who was not using a pseudonym and who rushed to comment as soon as a diavlog was posted, OK, I can see that that is an attraction. I don't see how the comments of unknown posters, comments which may or may not be intelligent, are going to draw additional viewers. On the other hand, the existence of a dedicated commenting community assuredly leads to some marginal "buzz." I know that I have mentioned bhtv to anyone I thought might conceivably be interested. And I did link to bhtv on occasion in my limited travels on the Web.

I'm not expecting bhtv to spend money on a user forum that does not pay for itself. I do question the business logic of the "below the video window" fixation. The vbulletin forum just looks considerably more serious and obviously allows for more serious commentary than does Disqus. I can't see myself writing short essays in Disqus, as I often did under vbulletin. I will myself look for a viable and inexpensive independent alternative, but I am in transit for the next few weeks, I can't do it now.

badhatharry 01-14-2012 08:56 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ledocs (Post 236823)
I can't see myself writing short essays in Disqus, as I often did under vbulletin. I will myself look for a viable and inexpensive independent alternative, but I am in transit for the next few weeks, I can't do it now.

Something about a legend in his own mind occurs to me.

graz 01-14-2012 09:33 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 236824)
Something about a legend in his own mind occurs to me.

One thing is clear, should you be miraculously blessed with newfound reading comprehension skills, you'd find that ledocs may hold himself in high regard -- but deservedly so. He's looking for a solution to a real problem. Conversely, you and your identical cousin seem quite content with dumbed down Disqus. Which does stand to reason.

badhatharry 01-14-2012 11:11 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graz (Post 236825)
One thing is clear, should you be miraculously blessed with newfound reading comprehension skills, you'd find that ledocs may hold himself in high regard -- but deservedly so.

Well wadaya expect? He attended the Stuart Smalley school of delusional self regard.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_eU0Q5KAVbs...artSmalley.jpg

badhatharry 01-14-2012 11:14 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 236826)
Well wadaya expect? He attended the Stuart Smalley school of delusional self regard.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_eU0Q5KAVbs...artSmalley.jpg

You guys should have a lot of fun when ledocs gets his new forum (which is a solution to a real problem) set up. He can write essays ( you know the ones he just can't bring himself to post in Disqus because of their incredible depth and breadth) and you guys can comment on them.

A good time will be had by all.

Wonderment 01-14-2012 11:41 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

The vbulletin forum just looks considerably more serious and obviously allows for more serious commentary than does Disqus. I can't see myself writing short essays in Disqus, as I often did under vbulletin. I will myself look for a viable and inexpensive independent alternative, but I am in transit for the next few weeks, I can't do it now.
Yes, VBulletin definitely provides for greater length, breadth and depth of commenting.

JonIrenicus 01-14-2012 11:44 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by look (Post 236675)
Easy method to keep track of Disqus threads:

If you scroll down to 'edit profile' you can select for all posts, in threads that you've made at least one post in, to be sent to your email. I just leave a windows tab open with my my email logged in, and the count changes as the emails build up. Then you can link directly from any emailed post back to the forum to reply.

http://forward-now.com/wp-content/up...ig-reduced.jpg

Unit 01-14-2012 11:53 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 236827)
You guys should have a lot of fun when ledocs gets his new forum (which is a solution to a real problem) set up. He can write essays ( you know the ones he just can't bring himself to post in Disqus because of their incredible depth and breadth) and you guys can comment on them.

A good time will be had by all.

Why are you so dismissive of the people who will not transition to disqus?

If vBulletin was free, the way say Wordpress blogs are, I could see some of us setting up a blog about bhtv where we could continue in our old ways.

stephanie 01-15-2012 09:02 AM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ledocs (Post 236823)
It's not a business error, ipso facto. But Bob's presumption is that intelligent comments directly below the video window will draw additional viewers. So I just question whether this is true. If there were some well-known commenter who was not using a pseudonym and who rushed to comment as soon as a diavlog was posted, OK, I can see that that is an attraction. I don't see how the comments of unknown posters, comments which may or may not be intelligent, are going to draw additional viewers. On the other hand, the existence of a dedicated commenting community assuredly leads to some marginal "buzz." I know that I have mentioned bhtv to anyone I thought might conceivably be interested. And I did link to bhtv on occasion in my limited travels on the Web.

I agree with all this, I'm just skeptical that anyone within TPTB is even reading it, let alone caring. They are set in their ideas of what matters. Sure, I see the comments section becoming more like that that follows online newpaper and magazine articles (this is not a positive), but it's not like that's going to hurt their business model and they never really figured out a way to make the forum help, even if Bob liked the idea of it in theory.

badhatharry 01-15-2012 09:29 AM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Unit (Post 236830)
Why are you so dismissive of the people who will not transition to disqus?

If vBulletin was free, the way say Wordpress blogs are, I could see some of us setting up a blog about bhtv where we could continue in our old ways.

I'm not. I'm dismissive of people who are pompous asses.

However, as you can see by the current traffic, the idea of a blog about bhtv being anything like bhtv was is grasping at straws.

Ocean 01-15-2012 11:45 AM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanie (Post 236840)
I agree with all this, I'm just skeptical that anyone within TPTB is even reading it, let alone caring. They are set in their ideas of what matters. Sure, I see the comments section becoming more like that that follows online newpaper and magazine articles (this is not a positive), but it's not like that's going to hurt their business model and they never really figured out a way to make the forum help, even if Bob liked the idea of it in theory.

Well, good luck to Bob and his enterprise.

I find myself hesitating to write anything over there. It's plainly tiring to have so many limitations and know in advance that an interesting conversation is unlikely to follow. So it takes three times as much work to put a post together, especially if you want to include links. And the anticipation of the experience being rewarding is pretty much minimal or gone. For every ten posts that come up to my mind writing, I may write one.

But, as you said, as long as that first page under the video is filled with something, it may be sufficient for whatever purposes Bob has.

And where are the hundreds of new commenters writing their comments? I haven't seen but a couple of new names, which may very well be known comemnters from here with a different handle.

handle 01-15-2012 04:53 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 236826)
Well wadaya expect? He attended the Stuart Smalley school of delusional self regard.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_eU0Q5KAVbs...artSmalley.jpg

You mean he has low self esteem, and is deploying self help positive affirmation techniques to reverse this affliction?

You have seen the SNL bits, right? Or are you just running with Bill O'reilly's mean spirited caricature of the senator from Minnesota?

Wonderment 01-15-2012 08:27 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 236842)
Well, good luck to Bob and his enterprise.

Enterprises. The Atlantic gig and the foundation founding. The key to understanding what's going on here is to study the interaction between the two. "Synergies" between the for-profit world of corporate journalism and the non-profit world of foundations and think tanks.

Quote:

I find myself hesitating to write anything over there. It's plainly tiring to have so many limitations and know in advance that an interesting conversation is unlikely to follow. So it takes three times as much work to put a post together, especially if you want to include links. And the anticipation of the experience being rewarding is pretty much minimal or gone. For every ten posts that come up to my mind writing, I may write one.
Yes, that is my experience as well.

Quote:

And where are the hundreds of new commenters writing their comments? I haven't seen but a couple of new names, which may very well be known comemnters from here with a different handle.
It's not about comments; it's about hits. As long as the front page looks "articulate and bright and clean," it's all good.

Ocean 01-15-2012 10:00 PM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Well, being a Sunday and being so cold outside, and with a topic that seemed to be poorly defended on one side, I decided to post quite a bit over there. I used every opportunity to make it clear that I hate disqus and that it limits possibilities. But I did want to participate, give it a try, contribute as a way of thanking for all the good talks that we were able to listen to and discuss in the past. Gratitude mostly. And also an honest attempt to see how much I could adapt.

I don't see it happening. During the week I won't be able to keep refreshing the page and scanning up and down to see new posts. And the narrowness of the columns is so unappealing! It fragments text and interrupts the flow of sentences and paragraphs. It stinks.

Disq sucks. Disqusting. Discuss disqus. Me disqusta.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_14_6.gif

Unit 01-16-2012 12:11 AM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 236847)
Well, being a Sunday and being so cold outside, and with a topic that seemed to be poorly defended on one side, I decided to post quite a bit over there. I used every opportunity to make it clear that I hate disqus and that it limits possibilities. But I did want to participate, give it a try, contribute as a way of thanking for all the good talks that we were able to listen to and discuss in the past. Gratitude mostly. And also an honest attempt to see how much I could adapt.

I don't see it happening. During the week I won't be able to keep refreshing the page and scanning up and down to see new posts. And the narrowness of the columns is so unappealing! It fragments text and interrupts the flow of sentences and paragraphs. It stinks.

Disq sucks. Disqusting. Discuss disqus. Me disqusta.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_14_6.gif

If I had known I wouldn't have donated money a few weeks ago. There should be a law, a regulation, against soliciting money donations right before you're about to close shop down.

graz 01-16-2012 12:38 AM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Unit (Post 236850)
If I had known I wouldn't have donated money a few weeks ago. There should be a law, a regulation, against soliciting money donations right before you're about to close shop down.

I doubt there was any malice aforethought. But the impression and result are rather suspect, You might consider asking for a refund. It was an amateurish display of misinfo and partial truths. Here's a little cover, or maybe damage control. From the recent bhtv video of the Bob and Jim show:

http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/8679#comment-407535643

Quote:

policy_wank 5 days ago
How much money did you raise from viewers in the week that followed the plea to give?


graziz 5 days ago in reply to policy_wank
It wasn't really a plea. It was more of a halfhearted stalling mechanism for what was already in the works. Apparently, the answer to your question is not public information. There is no expectation of accountability. Are you a stockholder? Is there a public shareholders board now that the foundation is non profit? Perhaps some commenters will be on the board? Good question though. The finances have always been alluded to but not made explicit. That is Bob's prerogative after all. He also can spin it any way he likes.

Jim Morrison (JimM47) 5 days ago in reply to graziz
I think it is supposed to public info, since Bob stated a number on the ill-fated diavlog that my computer ate. It was roughly a thousand dollars, if I recall correctly. About a quarter of what would be needed on a continuing basis.
Robert Wright liked this

Robert Wright 5 days ago in reply to Jim Morrison (JimM47)
Yes, it was around $1,000, but I'm afraid that's much less than a quarter of what would be needed on an ongoing basis (unless it came in once a week or so). Thanks to everyone who contributed. The money came at a crucial time.

Unit 01-16-2012 01:01 AM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graz (Post 236851)
I doubt there was any malice aforethought. But the impression and result are rather suspect, You might consider asking for a refund. It was an amateurish display of misinfo and partial truths. Here's a little cover, or maybe damage control. From the recent bhtv video of the Bob and Jim show:

http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/8679#comment-407535643

It just sort of adds to the disappointment.

badhatharry 01-16-2012 01:18 AM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Unit (Post 236853)
It just sort of adds to the disappointment.

If I were you I'd certainly ask for a refund. The plea was poorly made and there seemed to be some sort of promises which weren't kept.

ledocs 01-16-2012 01:56 AM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
badhat said:

Quote:

I'm not. I'm dismissive of people who are pompous asses.
http://brainwaveweb.com/forum/showpo...70&postcount=1

I don't think so highly of myself, but I do hold badhat in very low esteem.

TwinSwords 01-16-2012 06:04 AM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 236828)
Yes, VBulletin definitely provides for greater length, breadth and depth of commenting.

And weight!

;-)

stephanie 01-16-2012 10:22 AM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 236847)
Well, being a Sunday and being so cold outside, and with a topic that seemed to be poorly defended on one side, I decided to post quite a bit over there. I used every opportunity to make it clear that I hate disqus and that it limits possibilities. But I did want to participate, give it a try, contribute as a way of thanking for all the good talks that we were able to listen to and discuss in the past. Gratitude mostly. And also an honest attempt to see how much I could adapt.

I don't see it happening. During the week I won't be able to keep refreshing the page and scanning up and down to see new posts. And the narrowness of the columns is so unappealing! It fragments text and interrupts the flow of sentences and paragraphs. It stinks.

Agreed, but like Wonderment said, they don't care about that. They care that there are immediate comments and it looks intelligent (or at least like people are listening and not just trolling, intelligent is not really necessary but flattery).

The format is such that ongoing conversations about past diavlogs won't happen. The most recent one will get some feedback until the next one comes (or soon thereafter). With fewer diavlogs and the desire that all get comments, I strongly believe this is a benefit in the eyes of those who run the site. It also makes meaningful discussion unlikely to occur.

stephanie 01-16-2012 10:52 AM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Unit (Post 236850)
If I had known I wouldn't have donated money a few weeks ago. There should be a law, a regulation, against soliciting money donations right before you're about to close shop down.

Oh, I thought there was full disclosure both that the comments/forum were switching to disqus and that the coming bhTV might not be what we've liked so much. In fact, Bob made it sound like there might be even fewer diavlogs and I wsan't sure there'd still be this forum at all. It was hardly a real plea for donations, let alone one filled with promises. I donated based on past enjoyment/loyalties and without any expectations going forward. Hope, sure, but nothing more. I really don't think claiming that Bob was misleading is fair. He was quite negative, really.

As far as this forum and our satisfaction going forward, I think it's worth talking about what -- given the comments on the diavlog being what many of us consider unsatisfactory -- could make it better.

I think I'd still enjoy this forum if we could use it for the kinds of real discussions that were sparked by the diavlogs but not directly responding to them, plus the misc topics that have always been here. It might be nice if diavlogs could be talked about here after a week or two, also, as the current set up means there's no point in commenting after several days, no one will read or respond.

(This is my sense of how all comments on blog posts and news articles, etc., work, and that's what our comments on the site now are.)

In addition to this, we'd need some way to let people on the main site know about this one.

I know I may be being too optimistic here, but other ideas of what might allow this part of the forum to remain somewhat vital?

Unit 01-16-2012 11:23 AM

Re: An Important Note to Our Valued Commenters from Bob
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanie (Post 236859)
Oh, I thought there was full disclosure both that the comments/forum were switching to disqus and that the coming bhTV might not be what we've liked so much. In fact, Bob made it sound like there might be even fewer diavlogs and I wsan't sure there'd still be this forum at all. It was hardly a real plea for donations, let alone one filled with promises. I donated based on past enjoyment/loyalties and without any expectations going forward. Hope, sure, but nothing more. I really don't think claiming that Bob was misleading is fair. He was quite negative, really.

As far as this forum and our satisfaction going forward, I think it's worth talking about what -- given the comments on the diavlog being what many of us consider unsatisfactory -- could make it better.

I think I'd still enjoy this forum if we could use it for the kinds of real discussions that were sparked by the diavlogs but not directly responding to them, plus the misc topics that have always been here. It might be nice if diavlogs could be talked about here after a week or two, also, as the current set up means there's no point in commenting after several days, no one will read or respond.

(This is my sense of how all comments on blog posts and news articles, etc., work, and that's what our comments on the site now are.)

In addition to this, we'd need some way to let people on the main site know about this one.

I know I may be being too optimistic here, but other ideas of what might allow this part of the forum to remain somewhat vital?

I had gotten the impression that there would be less diavlogs and yes a new comment section and a redesign, but I didn't expect the forum to be shut down. I'm ok with Disqus for the main page and the comments below the videos. I have nothing against that, but why should it affect the forum? That was not made clear. In fact, what we got is pretty much just as many diavlogs (if not more).


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