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Bloggingheads 05-18-2011 10:00 PM

Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition (Michelle Goldberg & Mollie Ziegler Hemingway)
 

joe_mask 05-18-2011 11:23 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
First of all, nice conversation. Quick, topical and informative.

Quickly to Mitch Daniels, I am a Jacksonian Democrat and find Mr. Daniels perfectly compatible with all positions of professional responsibility. I have been impressed with his ability to surround himself with excellent people and their zeal, in turn, for good government. He is not your typical Republican because he believes government CAN work to better the lives of it's citizens and he seems damn good at getting 'er done.

badhatharry 05-18-2011 11:35 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_mask (Post 209513)
Quickly to Mitch Daniels, I am a Jacksonian Democrat and find Mr. Daniels perfectly compatible with all positions of professional responsibility.

So if he were one of the candidates, would you vote for him?

ohreally 05-18-2011 11:55 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
I turned off after 5 minutes because the bullshit was insufferable. Go ahead and criticize French journalism all you want (I did so earlier) but your comments on French sexual mores is basement-level pop-psych drivel. The charge against DSK is that he is a rapist. What has this got to do with "sexual sophistication"? Unless you can show that a Frenchman is more likely to rape than an American (which you can't because rape is much more prevalent in the US), you have no case.

Finally, I don't think anyone despises BHL more than I do. But get your facts straight for crying out loud. I challenge you to tell me what BHL said or wrote to suggest that DSK should be treated differently because of his VIP status. BHL said the judge behaved as though pretending to treat DSK like anyone else but in fact did not. Criticism based on groundless slander is disgusting.

And not to mention Hemingway's comment that BHL defends rape for a living (no doubt thinking of Polanski). What a pathetic diavlog.

Good night ladies.

Hume's Bastard 05-19-2011 12:27 AM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ohreally (Post 209520)
I turned off after 5 minutes because the bullshit was insufferable. Go ahead and criticize French journalism all you want (I did so earlier) but your comments on French sexual mores is basement-level pop-psych drivel. The charge against DSK is that he is a rapist. What has this got to do with "sexual sophistication"? Unless you can show that a Frenchman is more likely to rape than an American (which you can't because rape is much more prevalent in the US), you have no case.

Finally, I don't think anyone despises BHL more than I do. But get your facts straight for crying out loud. I challenge you to tell me what BHL said or wrote to suggest that DSK should be treated differently because of his VIP status. BHL said the judge behaved as though pretending to treat DSK like anyone else but in fact did not. Criticism based on groundless slander is disgusting.

And not to mention Hemingway's comment that BHL defends rape for a living (no doubt thinking of Polanski). What a pathetic diavlog.

Good night ladies.

bh.tv is going after Oprah's audience?!

I have to agree with you - and I had just tried to endure Althouse/Welch on the same subject. It occurs to me, if write on this Board, that Koreans are dictator-bait, I'm making an unwarranted generalization- and most people would just assume I'm a sloppy thinker and a jerk - and the latter is probably true. But, is a diavlog just a priviliged first-run at an article or other form of published expression that's beyond criticism? I know it's REALLY hard to get facts - it's not like everyone has a press pass or can spend hours in a day crunching stats and then translating them into some readable form most readers could digest. But, zero out of the last four 'heads of the type that doesn't even try seems a frightfully large number to have to endure.

That said, I'm not a prude. There has to be a way to tackle these issues. I'm a big fan of how Jean-Jacques Rousseau in "The Confessions" or Montesquieu in "The Persian Letters" combined high-and-low brow content. But, as I said, the last two diavlogs have not found that target.

And, getting back to reality, Matthew Lee - why hasn't he done a diavlog? - reports on a REAL possibility related to DSK's arrest: UNSG might not get a second term. See, Ann, Matt, Michelle, and Mollie, this is how you report on real news in a real world, not descend into gossip.

bjkeefe 05-19-2011 01:34 AM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ohreally (Post 209520)
I turned off after 5 minutes because the bullshit was insufferable. Go ahead and criticize French journalism all you want (I did so earlier) but your comments on French sexual mores is basement-level pop-psych drivel.

Eh, your point is not without merit, but I think you're overreacting to a thirty-second passage. (And possibly a gratuitously click-baitish segment title.)

bjkeefe 05-19-2011 01:44 AM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 209533)
Eh, your point is not without merit, but I think you're overreacting to a thirty-second passage. (And possibly a gratuitously click-baitish segment title.)

Although I have to admit that yet another ham-handed appeal to the bitter clingers from Mollie was almost enough to get me to click Stop.

bjkeefe 05-19-2011 01:50 AM

This just in
 
Posted eight minutes ago by the NYT (so maybe it's been known for a while from elsewhere):

Quote:

Dominique Strauss-Kahn Resigns From I.M.F.
Nothing of substance under the headline, if you're even casually familiar with the news from the past couple of days.

[Added] But if it's substance you want, see Ken Layne. He connects Dominatrix or whatever his name is to bin Laden, discoveries of new planets, Obama's looming Mideast speech, and the even more looming end of the world. Also, Newt Gingrich. And Donald Trump, also too.

How this guy hasn't been bought out by WND, I'll never know.

brucds 05-19-2011 01:50 AM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
I'm hoping that Molly Hemingway had the moral and analytical perspicacity to recognize Arnold as an unmitigated sack of shit for his "Smash the Car Tax!" demagogy, and the utter bullshit of his hollow promise - among others - to create a "rainy day fund!" to save Kaleefornia.

This guy's infidelities are the least of his moral reprobations. Also, did she criticize the right-wing boycott of the LA Times for revealing Arnold's seamy side as the Gropinator during his campaign ?

If she didn't see through this absurd and patently disingenuous crap Arnold directed at millions of people at the time and raise a red flag, why am I listening to her now?

bjkeefe 05-19-2011 02:00 AM

Ugh.
 
Michelle, please. The word you (and all too many sports announcers, including, it saddens me to say, Marv Albert) want is difference. Not "differential." Difference.

Differential, as a noun, is a highly specific term. A smart person and professional wordsmith like you should not go along with the herd of people trying to sound smart by using a word that they think sounds more fancy.

[Added] More here.

bjkeefe 05-19-2011 02:23 AM

Uh, Mollie ...
 
... I know you're champing at the bit to GetReligion on, but you did know that Arnold Schwarzenegger and the housekeeper were both married, right?

[Added] The next several minutes where you just kept repeating your marriage=good/secular=bad mantra were ... not at all persuasive, let us say. It is singularly unimpressive for you religious types to have to have it dragged out of you that societies run according to your strictures do not ever actually accomplish what you claim, and then to have it compounded by the empty assertion of "Well, if it weren't for religion, it'd be worse!!!1!"

look 05-19-2011 02:29 AM

Values Really Added
 
http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/362...0:48&out=01:32

chiwhisoxx 05-19-2011 02:51 AM

Re: Uh, Molly ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 209539)
... I know you're champing at the bit to GetReligion on, but you did know that both Arnold Schwarzenegger and the housekeeper were both married, right?

you seem to have forgotten how to spell Mollie's name, since I saw you spell it correctly upthread from here...

bjkeefe 05-19-2011 02:53 AM

Re: Uh, Mollie ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chiwhisoxx (Post 209543)
you seem to have forgotten how to spell Mollie's name, since I saw you spell it correctly upthread from here...

Thanks. Fixt.

bjkeefe 05-19-2011 02:54 AM

Re: Values Really Added
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by look (Post 209540)

It'd be a big value added to our society if we stopped using "love child," I agree.

Wonderment 05-19-2011 04:02 AM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Finally, I don't think anyone despises BHL more than I do. But get your facts straight for crying out loud. I challenge you to tell me what BHL said or wrote to suggest that DSK should be treated differently because of his VIP status.
His entirely ludicrous article definitely leaves that impression. If he were to believe, as most people do, that we are all equal in the eyes of the law, suffice to say famous people should be treated like anyone else.

But instead he lionizes DSK as "the champion of the left," a great and "charming" man and casts him as the victim of the incident, a hero "still proud" who has been "thrown to the dogs" and finds himself at the mercy not only of a mere "chambermaid" (subtext: African immigrant rabble) whom we should presume is lying because she claims she entered the room alone and not as a member of a brigade, but also of another French opportuninst who "pretends to have been the victim of the same kind of attempted rape, who has shut up for eight years but, sensing the golden opportunity, whips out her old dossier and comes to flog it on television."

The "victim" has been "exposed to the slime of a public opinion drunk on salacious gossip and driven by who knows what obscure vengeance."

And worst of all now there is nobody to save Greece and "for the first time in history" refuse to sell out:

Quote:

His defeat would also be that of this great cause. It would be a disaster for this entire part of Europe and of the world, because the IMF, under his leadership and for the first time in its history, did not intend to sell out to the superior interests of Finance

Wonderment 05-19-2011 05:14 AM

Re: This just in
 
Quote:

Nothing of substance under the headline...
You didn't think "infinite sadness" was substantial? :)

Free Internet make-believe publicist advice: If you don't want your sex crime to sound pathetically narcissistic and hideously megalomaniacal, avoid the adjective "infinite" to describe your emotions.

harkin 05-19-2011 09:05 AM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ohreally (Post 209520)
I turned off after 5 minutes because the bullshit was insufferable. Go ahead and criticize French journalism all you want (I did so earlier) but your comments on French sexual mores is basement-level pop-psych drivel. The charge against DSK is that he is a rapist. What has this got to do with "sexual sophistication"? Unless you can show that a Frenchman is more likely to rape than an American (which you can't because rape is much more prevalent in the US), you have no case.

Interesting quote in Time Mag:

"If I try transposing the situation in New York on Sunday to France, I just can't do it," says Diallo. "Not only because the woman is black and apparently an immigrant. But also because she's a housekeeper. Perhaps even more than her race, her station in society would probably prevent authorities [in France] from taking her accusations against a rich and powerful man seriously. Racism is on the rise here again, but class discrimination has never gone away." -- Rokhaya Diallo, president of Les Indivisibles, an association that promotes diversity in France.

I guess if you define 'sexual sophistication' as "If you're rich/powerful/famous/a celebrated artist, it's OK to rape the helpless" then these two women aren't as far off as you claim. If only we could be more like those sophisticated euros.....

miceelf 05-19-2011 09:23 AM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harkin (Post 209556)

I guess if you define 'sexual sophistication' as "If you're rich/powerful/famous/a celebrated artist, it's OK to rape the helpless" then these two women aren't as far off as you claim. If only we could be more like those sophisticated euros.....

Sure. and if you define "horse pucks" as "apples" then a waldorf salad would taste quite a bit different.

I have trouble imagining a listener who would, unguided, assume "sexual sophistication" means "it's ok to rape the helpless if you are powerful."

badhatharry 05-19-2011 10:50 AM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brucds (Post 209536)
I'm hoping that Molly Hemingway had the moral and analytical perspicacity to recognize Arnold as an unmitigated sack of shit for his "Smash the Car Tax!" demagogy, and the utter bullshit of his hollow promise - among others - to create a "rainy day fund!" to save Kaleefornia.

This guy's infidelities are the least of his moral reprobations. Also, did she criticize the right-wing boycott of the LA Times for revealing Arnold's seamy side as the Gropinator during his campaign ?

If she didn't see through this absurd and patently disingenuous crap Arnold directed at millions of people at the time and raise a red flag, why am I listening to her now?

What makes you think she supported Schwarzenegger? Also, I was pretty aware of events surrounding his campaign and I don't remember a boycott of the LA Times. In fact, I'm going to say that the real conservatives didn't support him much at all, except to think he could win, which was regrettable.

TwinSwords 05-19-2011 10:54 AM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 209574)
I don't remember a boycott of the LA Times.

You don't? Yeah, brucds is right. Conservatives threw one of their trademark "WE WILL DESTROY YOU!!!1!" fits when "TEH LIEBRUL MEDIA!!!" tried to "SABOTAGE!!1!" their candidate.

Because socialism.

I'm guessing you probably listened to about 300 hours of right wing talk radio raving about it, but just forgot.

badhatharry 05-19-2011 11:15 AM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 209576)
You don't? Yeah, brucds is right. Conservatives threw one of their trademark "WE WILL DESTROY YOU!!!1!" fits when "TEH LIEBRUL MEDIA!!!" tried to "SABOTAGE!!1!" their candidate.

Because socialism.

I'm guessing you probably listened to about 300 hours of right wing talk radio raving about it, but just forgot.

I despise Schwarzenegger and always did.

But as for as the LA Times boycott, you wouldn't care to provide any proof would you?

badhatharry 05-19-2011 11:16 AM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harkin (Post 209556)
I guess if you define 'sexual sophistication' as "If you're rich/powerful/famous/a celebrated artist, it's OK to rape the helpless" then these two women aren't as far off as you claim. If only we could be more like those sophisticated euros.....

Here's what I heard when these two were discussing sophistication.

Michelle said several times that we shouldn't judge a person's political qualifications by their sexual/marital behavior. That's where the euro sophistication/Bill Clinton bit came in. Mollie then would say that character is very important and it's only natural that people be judged by things like how that behave in their marriage...that this is a useful tool with which to judge politicians.

Then Michelle would grimace and say she didn't agree with this exactly, try to characterize what she was hearing Mollie say that she disagreed with and then Mollie would come back and try to reiterate her point. I just think Michelle was awfully uncomfortable using a metric such as marital faithfulness as a standard, while Mollie thinks its important.

This back and forth went on for seven minutes by my count 10:00-17:00.

operative 05-19-2011 11:18 AM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 209581)
I despise Schwarzenegger and always did.

But as for as the LA Times boycott, you wouldn't care to provide any proof would you?

Maybe TS confused "right wingers" with teachers unions goons:
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug...react-20100816

laura 05-19-2011 12:26 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Mollie needs to re-read her Moral Animal. Marriage is to protect the interests of low status men by sharing out the women, thereby buying some peace in society.

One might have thought familiarity with the classics was required before appearing on here. However, to his eternal shame, this was disproved by John McWhorter.

AemJeff 05-19-2011 12:28 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by laura (Post 209607)
Mollie need to re-read her Moral Animal. Marriage is to protect the interests of low status men by sharing out the women, thereby buying some peace in society.

One might have thought familiarity with the classics was required before appearing on here. However, to his eternal shame, this was disproved by John McWhorter.

:)

Florian 05-19-2011 12:42 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hume's Bastard (Post 209525)
bh.tv is going after Oprah's audience?!.

If so, it is succeeding. When will the tearful confessions begin?

Quote:

That said, I'm not a prude. There has to be a way to tackle these issues. I'm a big fan of how Jean-Jacques Rousseau in "The Confessions" or Montesquieu in "The Persian Letters" combined high-and-low brow content. But, as I said, the last two diavlogs have not found that target..
Understatement of the week. Rousseau and Montesquieu could say daring, erotic and often profound things without departing from the most "chaste" French. I am afraid it cannot be done in the English language. And it certainly cannot be done by two would-be Oprahs.

look 05-19-2011 01:00 PM

Re: Values Really Added
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 209546)
It'd be a big value added to our society if we stopped using "love child," I agree.

Jealous.

look 05-19-2011 01:01 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 209583)
Maybe TS confused "right wingers" with teachers unions goons:
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug...react-20100816

TwinShorts is often confused.

Florian 05-19-2011 01:45 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 209551)
His entirely ludicrous article definitely leaves that impression. If he were to believe, as most people do, that we are all equal in the eyes of the law, suffice to say famous people should be treated like anyone else.

But instead he lionizes DSK as "the champion of the left," a great and "charming" man and casts him as the victim of the incident, a hero "still proud" who has been "thrown to the dogs" and finds himself at the mercy not only of a mere "chambermaid" (subtext: African immigrant rabble) whom we should presume is lying because she claims she entered the room alone and not as a member of a brigade, but also of another French opportuninst who "pretends to have been the victim of the same kind of attempted rape, who has shut up for eight years but, sensing the golden opportunity, whips out her old dossier and comes to flog it on television."

The "victim" has been "exposed to the slime of a public opinion drunk on salacious gossip and driven by who knows what obscure vengeance."

And worst of all now there is nobody to save Greece and "for the first time in history" refuse to sell out:

Yes, we are all equal in the eyes of the law. So what do you know about either of these affairs that is unknown to French law or American law? The article may be ludicrous to you, but your comment is even more ludicrous because you know absolutely nothing at this point about what happened in either case. So: Shut the fuck up, until you have something to say that rises above political correctness and Oprah Winfrey wisdom.

AemJeff 05-19-2011 02:05 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Florian (Post 209621)
Yes, we are all equal in the eyes of the law. So what do you know about either of these affairs that is unknown to French law or American law? The article may be ludicrous to you, but your comment is even more ludicrous because you know absolutely nothing at this point about what happened in either case. So: Shut the fuck up.

What does Wonderment's complaint about BHL's assumptions and rhetoric have to do with what is understood by French or American law? In what sense are BHL's assertions deserving of greater deference than W's questions? Or do you believe that BHL ought to STFU too?

Florian 05-19-2011 02:14 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 209623)
What does Wonderment's complaint about BHL's assumptions and rhetoric have to do with what is understood by French or American law? In what sense are BHL's assertions deserving of greater deference than W's questions? Or do you believe that BHL ought to STFU too?

BHL did not express an opinion about what actually happened between DSK and the maid in New York. All he said about the French woman was that it was strange that she waited so long to file a complaint. The truth, until we hear DSK's version of the story, is that it impossible to know whether there was rape or not.

bkjazfan 05-19-2011 02:38 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Living in California the Arnold infidelity story is huge. Hopefully, it' not so big across the country. Going back to my quasi journalism training: "if that's what the public wants give it to them". I never bought that line but apparently it is the one the media goes with. Enough already.

AemJeff 05-19-2011 02:43 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Florian (Post 209624)
BHL did not express an opinion about what actually happened between DSK and the maid in New York. All he said about the French woman was that it was strange that she waited so long to file a complaint. The truth, until we hear DSK's version of the story, is that it impossible to know whether there was rape or not.

I think it's fair to say that both BHL and W have apparently greater sympathy for different actors in this drama; but, it's also true that Wonderment hasn't expressed a direct opinion regarding the underlying facts of the case.

Florian 05-19-2011 02:51 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 209631)
I think it's fair to say that both BHL and W have apparently greater sympathy for different actors in this drama; but, it's also true that Wonderment hasn't expressed a direct opinion regarding the underlying facts of the case.

Yes, he has expressed an opinion---indirectly:

Quote:

But instead he lionizes DSK as "the champion of the left," a great and "charming" man and casts him as the victim of the incident, a hero "still proud" who has been "thrown to the dogs" and finds himself at the mercy not only of a mere "chambermaid" (subtext: African immigrant rabble) whom we should presume is lying because she claims she entered the room alone and not as a member of a brigade, but also of another French opportuninst who "pretends to have been the victim of the same kind of attempted rape, who has shut up for eight years but, sensing the golden opportunity, whips out her old dossier and comes to flog it on television."

Wonderment knows nothing about France, DSK as a politician or what he has done in his career, and nothing about either of these cases. Yet he thinks he can somehow cast doubt on the credibililty of BHL by suggesting that he is a racist and an apologist for a rapist. This is just absurd and deserves nothing but contempt.

Wonderment 05-19-2011 03:03 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

So what do you know about either of these affairs that is unknown to French law or American law? The article may be ludicrous to you, but your comment is even more ludicrous because you know absolutely nothing at this point about what happened in either case. So: Shut the fuck up, until you have something to say that rises above political correctness and Oprah Winfrey wisdom.
I don't really understand your first sentence so it's hard to comment. Do bear in mind, however, that I am not prohibited from having an opinion about what I read in the newspaper. I am not a juror, witness, police officer, judge or journalist.

Most people I've read on the topic are NOT commenting about the alleged perp's guilt or innocence. They are commenting about societal perceptions, attitudes and matters of law. BHL is particularly obnoxious because he rushes to the defense of the person's character (suggesting he would never lie, which is precisely what he must be doing if the charges are true), much as he did in his defense of Art in the Polanski case of the rape of a 13-year-old child.

My objection to Levi's comments are not on matters of law or procedure: Levi not only has a right to object to perp walks and tabloid accounts of crimes, he's absolutely right to do so. Perp walks are disgusting and prejudicial to defendants. (I notice he said nothing, however, about the FACT that French media released the victim's name, which of course doesn't faze him because she is, after all, "a chambermaid" who is either lying or so stupid that she went into a great man's room alone without a "brigade" )

I would like to hear you expand, however, on what you mean by "political correctness" and Oprah Winfrey wisdom. By all means, don't STFU, and do walk headlong into that one.

badhatharry 05-19-2011 03:14 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by laura (Post 209607)
Mollie needs to re-read her Moral Animal. Marriage is to protect the interests of low status men by sharing out the women, thereby buying some peace in society.

One might have thought familiarity with the classics was required before appearing on here. However, to his eternal shame, this was disproved by John McWhorter.

Bob Wright will be please to know that The Moral Animal is one of the classics.

Wonderment 05-19-2011 03:16 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Wonderment knows nothing about France, DSK as a politician or what he has done in his career, and nothing about either of these cases. Yet he thinks he can somehow cast doubt on the credibililty of BHL by suggesting that he is a racist and an apologist for a rapist. This is just absurd and deserves nothing but contempt.
I am willing to stipulate that France is a great culture and nation and that DSK is a marvelous politician. Perhaps, as BHL suggests, without him Europe would be lost.

BHL does have a history of defending his buddy rapist Polanski, so he doesn't have a lot of credibility here. It was very ill-advised to immediately do a DSK puff piece. I'm glad he's criticizing prep walks, however; some good could come of that criticism.

Florian 05-19-2011 03:25 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 209634)
I don't really understand your first sentence so it's hard to comment. Do bear in mind, however, that I am not prohibited from having an opinion about what I read in the newspaper. I am not a juror, witness, police officer, judge or journalist.

Most people I've read on the topic are NOT commenting about the alleged perp's guilt or innocence. They are commenting about societal perceptions, attitudes and matters of law. BHL is particularly obnoxious because he rushes to the defense of the person's character (suggesting he would never lie, which is precisely what he must be doing if the charges are true), much as he did in his defense of Art in the Polanski case of the rape of a 13-year-old child.

My objection to Levi's comments are not on matters of law or procedure: Levi not only has a right to object to perp walks and tabloid accounts of crimes, he's absolutely right to do so. Perp walks are disgusting and prejudicial to defendants. (I notice he said nothing, however, about the FACT that French media released the victim's name, which of course doesn't faze him because she is, after all, "a chambermaid" who is either lying or so stupid that she went into a great man's room alone without a "brigade" )

I would like to hear you expand, however, on what you mean by "political correctness" and Oprah Winfrey wisdom. By all means, don't STFU, and do walk headlong into that one.

It is pretty obvious what I mean by political correctness. You have already decided that a poor, immigrant chambermaid must be telling the truth and that a powerful French politician, known for his extramarital affairs, must be lying. You have also suggested that BHL is a racist and an apologist for rape.

Until we know whether there was a rape, there is no point in carrying on this discussion. By the way, the translation of the French text is inaccurate. BHL did not say that the French woman "pretended" that she had been a victim of attempted rape. He said: "Ellle prétend avoir été victime d'une tentative de viol," which means: She claims to have been the victim of an attempted rape.

Wonderment 05-19-2011 03:32 PM

Re: Values Added: Queasy Alienated Despair Edition
 
Quote:

it's also true that Wonderment hasn't expressed a direct opinion regarding the underlying facts of the case.
I've been careful not to express an opinion about the alleged perp's actual guilt or innocence. My only opinion about the underlying facts is that I find entirely preposterous the idea that he was framed by the classic "right-wing conspiracy."


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