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-   -   Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus) (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=7196)

sapeye 11-30-2011 01:09 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Globalcop (Post 232994)
Five staffers and they still can't explain to diavloggers how to do a mic check?

This is a seriously unfair criticism. We all have different relationships to technology and many of the participants may not be comfortable adjusting the equipment, no matter how many times the staffers explain how to do it. Glenn Loury, for example, has the very distracting habit of jiggling his camera. Since I like him a lot and since I find his diavlogs almost unwatchable when he's bouncing around the screen, I've written to him on three separate occasions to ask him to please try to avoid camera movement. Each time he's promptly and courteously replied to apologize and promise to do better. And he does... for a while until he forgets again.

As far as I know, the participants aren't paid and some of them tape at work, or have kids, and may not have ready access to a perfectly quiet space.

Plus, of course there are the inherent vagaries of technology. Ever had problems with Skype or other communication links? How many techs do they have maintaining their systems. Considering that BH is a very low budget operation, and also considering how much it costs us to watch, it seems to me they do a great job.

thouartgob 11-30-2011 01:12 PM

what is Esperanto for "Not Adios, but Hasta Luego…" ?
 
My homage to one of the best lines/dingalinks Bob ever said.

My thanks to all of the people who worked on the site for the years it has been around.

Bloggingheads is/was the best site for multimedia laden discourse I have ever known. The fact that no one can duplicate it is a credit to all involved and shows how smart we viewers are and how stupid everyone else is :)

More seriously the commitment to the ideal of creating useful discussions that cut across points of view on a wide range of topics is tragically missing in this media environment we find ourselves in. I consider this site to be an actual public service and it's impending transformation into a non-profit seems almost fitting. I should think that PBS or C-SPAN should have taken up this site and it's tools a couple of years ago. The site reminded me of Firing Line in fact.

I hope that strategic retreat alluded to in the title will allow what has been created here to flourish and in some form or fashion, help inform the moribund state of affairs that we call Mainstream Media in this country.

ps
I was wondering if there was going to something of a FAQ on the restructuring ?

badhatharry 11-30-2011 01:13 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sapeye (Post 233034)
This is a seriously unfair criticism.

hear! hear! I just don't get how someone feels justified in crticizing the product when the product is free and no one is being compelled to participate. So there!

DenvilleSteve 11-30-2011 01:26 PM

BHTV was boring. Too much unchallenged lefty POV.
 
I appreciate the effort Bob put into the site. But I think it can be successful if the libs are challenged more. The Reason magazine input was crap. Esp Matt Welch. Have Steve Sailer or Mark Steyn on against any of the regular libs. The coming financial collapse of America is going to be pretty bad for people. But it will definitely get great ratings as the play by play is analyzed. Mish Shedlock would be very interesting to listen to in the BHTV format.

The science saturday stuff was full of libs. Boring, uninteresting. As uninteresting as scientific american and NY science times. What a disgrace when the libs refused to appear because of Michael Behe. All Behe did was explain his science exceedingly well. Libs don't like it when you do that. Jerry Pournelle would be great. http://jerrypournelle.com/

All the journolist people who appreared on the site. Interesting to hear sometimes, but again, their POV was unchallenged. Richard Epstein would be great: http://blog.ronhebron.com/2011/11/ri...portunity.html

The UN reports stuff was good, but too reverential to that institution. All the corruption and cynicism at the UN. You have to report on it and challenge it.

r108dos 11-30-2011 01:50 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Thanks so much Bob. BHtv has been a wonderful project. I love it when Mickey is on.

Thanks also to the comments!

Peter Twieg 11-30-2011 02:02 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
I've loved BhTV but hearing about it suddenly being scaled back makes me sympathetic to GlobalCop's above criticisms. It doesn't seem like Bob was seriously trying to monetize the site, and I had just taken this as a signal that money wasn't much of an issue. I mean, why not just have a sponsor's ad at the beginning of each diavlog, like most podcasts do? Maybe a couple commercial breaks between topics if you really need the cash. I mean, that's the simple stuff but even failing to go that far and then declaring BhTV a failed project is... odd, to say the least.

Plus, I could understand cutting back BhTV - a lot of the time there were marginal horserace-update diavlogs and diavlogs where two regulars were basically just shooting the shit on topics they really didn't know much about - but it's hard for me to believe that basically none of the BhTV regulars generated enough traffic to justify keeping on as regulars. Unless of course you're not monetizing the traffic. And maybe I'm naive, but it seemed like several regulars actually liked doing these episodes and would be willing to do them for free. Or maybe that's the hope for why we'll still have occasional BhTV "classic" episodes?

Overall, it just seems odd. And what happened to TechHeads? It had a few episodes, and then.. nothing? Seems odd to start a spin-off, kill it a few weeks later, and then announce the entire site being scaled back a couple months after that. There much have been some sort of major, unexpected financial shock this fall.

Anyways, I shouldn't let my frustrations do too much to overshadow the fact that I've loved BhTV for several years and will greatly lament its being scaled back. The fact that there is no clear substitute for it is telling.

AemJeff 11-30-2011 02:04 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sapeye (Post 233034)
This is a seriously unfair criticism. We all have different relationships to technology and many of the participants may not be comfortable adjusting the equipment, no matter how many times the staffers explain how to do it. Glenn Loury, for example, has the very distracting habit of jiggling his camera. Since I like him a lot and since I find his diavlogs almost unwatchable when he's bouncing around the screen, I've written to him on three separate occasions to ask him to please try to avoid camera movement. Each time he's promptly and courteously replied to apologize and promise to do better. And he does... for a while until he forgets again.

As far as I know, the participants aren't paid and some of them tape at work, or have kids, and may not have ready access to a perfectly quiet space.

Plus, of course there are the inherent vagaries of technology. Ever had problems with Skype or other communication links? How many techs do they have maintaining their systems. Considering that BH is a very low budget operation, and also considering how much it costs us to watch, it seems to me they do a great job.

Yeah, it was a pretty dumb criticism that completely ignored the nature of what was being criticized. I know plenty about computers and I'm comfortable around recording equipment, and there were technical issues with both of my diavlogs, some of them completely my fault. People are generally not physically present, do these things only occasionally, are unpaid, and often inexpert; nevertheless, we've seen nearly two thousand successfully completed diavlogs.

bhf 11-30-2011 02:57 PM

thanks from BHF
 
First off: Mickey, so sorry to hear about the passing of your mother.

To Bob: I think your good friend Mickey is giving you good advice about the right attitude to have regarding the restructuring at bhtv: this necessary change really doesn't sound so bad. You should feel proud of what you've created. Sure, it's no fun having to layoff (or cutback hours) for the great staff members, but it sounds like the site will continue in some form, and the community will stick around.

I for one would like to thank Bob, the other diavloggers, terrific commentors, and great staff that have made bhtv a great way to spend time. I'll continue to be grateful for the time I've spent here.

- BHF (which stands for "BloggingHeads Fan," by the way)

bkjazfan 11-30-2011 04:01 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Being a political junkie I have enjoyed my 4 1/2 years viewing BHTV. It's been my go to place to check out on the Net practically everyday. The intellectual stimulation and happiness it has brought to my life is immeasureable.

Thanks to Bob and crew,

John

jimM47 11-30-2011 04:09 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
I join the chorus wishing Bob well in his new adventures and hoping that Bloggingheads will live on and ultimately triumph.

I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing more "regular shows" if that is what it takes to fill out the schedule. Indeed, some of my favorite shows involve regular pairings: TWiB, Kaus/Wright, Loury/McWhorter, Drezner/Hurlbert, Bienhart/Goldberg.

basman 11-30-2011 04:18 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
I hope things work out.

I enjoy coming here on occasion and casting my bits of pork before pearls.

Great site, much appreciated by me.

Itzik Basman

thouartgob 11-30-2011 06:32 PM

Re: The Bob Show
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Willard (Post 233013)
I'm trying to think of a good title for a progressive realist. "The Bob Show" sounds like a something for kids on Saturday morning from the 1960's.

The name "Progressions" has a nice ring to it.

Just don't go with "Realisms". That would make me laugh.

Teaming up with an Asian pundit ( Asian affairs are quite lost on an american audience ) with an appropriate name and call it "Wright and Wong" ? :)

other trivial thoughts on the subject.

"Wright Now"
"If you can't do it Wright"
"Wright Power"
"On the Wright Ring"

miceelf 11-30-2011 06:56 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 233036)
hear! hear! I just don't get how someone feels justified in crticizing the product when the product is free and no one is being compelled to participate. So there!

"Waiter, the soup tasted terrible. And there wasn't enough of it."

miceelf 11-30-2011 06:59 PM

Re: The Bob Show
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thouartgob (Post 233049)
Teaming up with an Asian pundit ( Asian affairs are quite lost on an american audience ) with an appropriate name and call it "Wright and Wong" ? :)

other trivial thoughts on the subject.

"Wright Now"
"If you can't do it Wright"
"Wright Power"
"On the Wright Ring"

The Wright Light.

All Wright.

Or, more imaginatively, Sideshow Bob

sapeye 11-30-2011 07:07 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Bob and Mickey, I've now watched the whole diavlog and I must say: Not enough Snark! Not nearly enough... C'mon guys you're gonna ruin your reputations being all serious for almost the whole show.

uncle ebeneezer 11-30-2011 07:53 PM

Re: The Bob Show
 
Or "Wright And Yong."

"The Wright Side of History"

Unit 11-30-2011 08:12 PM

Re: The Bob Show
 
"The Positive Wright"

ohreally 11-30-2011 08:27 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
You can't do that to me, Bob Wright! Just as I've finally mastered the quote feature on bhtv, you bail out ?!

But thanks anyway for giving me so many opportunities to scream at the world. At least, on bhtv, one doesn't get pepper-sprayed.

Sorry to hear about your mom, Mickey. The day a son never wants to see... My condolences to you and your family.

bjk 11-30-2011 08:28 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
I submitted this twice to Amplifier, then I realized, hey, I can just post this!

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/401...0:05&out=10:06

Mickey doing his best Butthead.

Ocean 11-30-2011 08:38 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ohreally (Post 233055)
At least, on bhtv, one doesn't get pepper-sprayed.

Yet.

Ocean 11-30-2011 08:43 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Wow, I'm reading the comments, but haven't quite listened to the diavlog yet. I thought this was a relatively minor change but people are writing their eulogies here. No more forum or what?

I guess I'll have to listen to this ASAP.

osmium 11-30-2011 08:55 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 233058)
Wow, I'm reading the comments, but haven't quite listened to the diavlog yet. I thought this was a relatively minor change but people are writing their eulogies here. No more forum or what?

I guess I'll have to listen to this ASAP.

It doesn't actually sound all that bad, but Bob frames it as "bad news."

If this turns out to be a return to the 1 or 2 diavlogs a week era, I suspect we will all still enjoy it like we do now. I assume the forum will still be here. Is that right, Bob, anyone?

bkjazfan 11-30-2011 09:05 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Kudos to Mickey for mentioning political journalist Thomas Edsall. His '92 book "Chain Reaction: The Impact of Race, Rights, and Taxes on American Politics" was one of the finest non fiction books I have ever read.

harkin 11-30-2011 09:08 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Thanks to Bob and anyone involved for participating, producing and/or supporting BhTV. One of my favorite sites. Please do your best to schedule dialoguers who can contrast what their counterpart says and avoid the echo chamber ones.

Bob's dialogues with Mickey were what got me hooked here, hope they continue however sporadic.

The real issue of Day Of Rage/OWS/Obamaville is that hundreds/thousands of people who were unable to take an extended camping trip without devolving into a cesspool of trash/drugs/crime/vandalism/flaunting of law etc were at the same time touting themselves as examples of a superior society.

The real goal was to distract the public's attention from a failure president and a continued economic slump and change the perception of the wealthy so that seizing even more wealth could replace lost tax revenue.

The real scandal wasn't so much the horrific example of humanity the campers showed themselves to be, but the double standard of the press in reporting such as opposed to their portraying the Tea Party (a movement that managed to turn an election without any of the circus provided by the Occupistas) as the second coming of the Nazi Party. This double standard will not be exceeded until the 2012 campigning kicks into high gear.

Wonderment 11-30-2011 09:09 PM

Not an obituary, but the dawn of a new 501-(c)-(3) BHeads Nation
 
Which means we can all make tax deductible contributions. Yay! I pledge (undisclosed amount > $1) no strings attached. I won't even demand Jonah Goldberg never-ever-not-in-a-million-years appear on the site.

The meaner, leaner non-profit BH (like there ever was a profit BH?) is surely disappointing for the awesome staff. But they are young, smart and talented, and sure to succeed in their future endeavors.

Thank you, support staff --- behind the scenes tekkie wizards as well as out-front Brenda and Aryeh -- for making Bheads my first and favorite daily spot on the Internet.

thouartgob 11-30-2011 09:21 PM

Re: The Bob Show
 
Based on a classic Bill Cosby album

"... Wriiight"

as in "you wanna debate me Wriiight" or "Mickey Kaus the democrat Wriiiight"

AemJeff 11-30-2011 09:46 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harkin (Post 233062)
Thanks to Bob and anyone involved for participating, producing and/or supporting BhTV. One of my favorite sites. Please do your best to schedule dialoguers who can contrast what their counterpart says and avoid the echo chamber ones.

Bob's dialogues with Mickey were what got me hooked here, hope they continue however sporadic.

The real issue of Day Of Rage/OWS/Obamaville is that hundreds/thousands of people who were unable to take an extended camping trip without devolving into a cesspool of trash/drugs/crime/vandalism/flaunting of law etc were at the same time touting themselves as examples of a superior society.

The real goal was to distract the public's attention from a failure president and a continued economic slump and change the perception of the wealthy so that seizing even more wealth could replace lost tax revenue.

The real scandal wasn't so much the horrific example of humanity the campers showed themselves to be, but the double standard of the press in reporting such as opposed to their portraying the Tea Party (a movement that managed to turn an election without any of the circus provided by the Occupistas) as the second coming of the Nazi Party. This double standard will not be exceeded until the 2012 campigning kicks into high gear.

Can't you try hard enough to make it seem worth snarking back, harkin? You're just phoning it in, man!

badhatharry 11-30-2011 09:50 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harkin (Post 233062)
The real scandal wasn't so much the horrific example of humanity the campers showed themselves to be, but the double standard of the press in reporting such as opposed to their portraying the Tea Party (a movement that managed to turn an election without any of the circus provided by the Occupistas) as the second coming of the Nazi Party.

http://www.owsexposed.com/wp-content...s-teaparty.png

rubbernecking 11-30-2011 09:58 PM

Say it ain't so, Bob
 
I was sorry to hear about your Mom, Mickey. You could hear how important she was to you. Thanks for doing the Diavlog.

And sorry to hear about Blogglngheads 1.0. I've gotten a lot of happiness and intellectual comfort from the show and, foolish Romantic that I am, I'm not giving up on Bob's original 1.0 vision. There's at least 1 month left.

It's not too late to ask for donations. It's never too late and there are lots of honorable and even inspired "asks". Filmforum in NYC had a "Small is Beautiful" campaign where they asked for only 5, 10, 25 bucks and the donors got their names listed on the FF website; there's Wikipedias personal appeals going on right now; there are many other direct, authentic, respectful appeals for support.

While individual donors probably won't hit the sort of numbers Bob hinted at, this is the time to build a list of donors that foundations really like to see. There won't be a better time than this month to get some donations and some names. Perhaps more importantly, a concerted effort to reach out to bloggingheads followers might reveal some amazing connections to funding.

I hope y'all are planning something like this. I expect you are. If you wait for the c3, too much of the audience might be gone already. Strike while the iron's hot and all that rot.

Nobody's ever asked me for money and I'd give something. How many more are there?

Just thinkin'

Sulla the Dictator 11-30-2011 10:03 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harkin (Post 233062)
The real scandal wasn't so much the horrific example of humanity the campers showed themselves to be, but the double standard of the press in reporting such as opposed to their portraying the Tea Party (a movement that managed to turn an election without any of the circus provided by the Occupistas) as the second coming of the Nazi Party. This double standard will not be exceeded until the 2012 campigning kicks into high gear.

It is racist to oppose the will of the ruling Party. Why isn't that obvious to you?

miceelf 11-30-2011 10:05 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harkin (Post 233062)
The real scandal wasn't so much the horrific example of humanity the campers showed themselves to be, but the double standard of the press in reporting such as opposed to their portraying the Tea Party (a movement that managed to turn an election without any of the circus provided by the Occupistas) as the second coming of the Nazi Party. This double standard will not be exceeded until the 2012 campigning kicks into high gear.

You're right, of course. It's absolutely shocking that events organized by corporate backers who bussed people around to different rural areas and screened the people who they bussed AND had the tacit approval of the powers that be ended up getting into less conflicts with police that gatherings in urban centers without corporate sponsorship or screening process and where police were actively directing homeless and/or mentally ill people to attend said events.

miceelf 11-30-2011 10:07 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 233066)

Right, because "behead bankers" is a completely representative example of OWS slogans that media people accepted and tolerated, while "less government" was the TP slogan that people objected to.

miceelf 11-30-2011 10:08 PM

Re: The Bob Show
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thouartgob (Post 233064)
Based on a classic Bill Cosby album

"... Wriiight"

as in "you wanna debate me Wriiight" or "Mickey Kaus the democrat Wriiiight"

For some reason, you made me think of Queen Latifah, which led me to:

Just Wright.

osmium 11-30-2011 10:13 PM

Re: Not an obituary, but the dawn of a new 501-(c)-(3) BHeads Nation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 233063)
Which means we can all make tax deductible contributions. Yay! I pledge (undisclosed amount > $1) no strings attached. I won't even demand Jonah Goldberg never-ever-not-in-a-million-years appear on the site.

The meaner, leaner non-profit BH (like there ever was a profit BH?) is surely disappointing for the awesome staff. But they are young, smart and talented, and sure to succeed in their future endeavors.

Thank you, support staff --- behind the scenes tekkie wizards as well as out-front Brenda and Aryeh -- for making Bheads my first and favorite daily spot on the Internet.

co-sign

/Although there are several people I dislike more than Jonah. :)

rcocean 11-30-2011 10:17 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
I haven't listened to the DV but wanted to post anyway, even though I have nothing to say.

Later, I might half listen to the DV and then comment about how I'm half the way through and ask other people what the other half was about.

Or I just may post a picture or ask an inane question of no one in particular.

Or possibly not talk about how BHTV is ending but instead engage in meaningless snark about what someone else wrote.

thouartgob 11-30-2011 10:20 PM

Re: The Bob Show
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miceelf (Post 233072)
For some reason, you made me think of Queen Latifah, which led me to:

Just Wright.

Actually that works now that he will be taking on more and more of the content creation. Considering his complete lack of interest in popular culture he would also probably consider it an entre into hip urban culture as well.

thouartgob 11-30-2011 10:22 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rcocean (Post 233074)
I haven't listened to the DV but wanted to post anyway, even though I have nothing to say.

Later, I might half listen to the DV and then comment about how I'm half the way through and ask other people what the other half was about.

Or I just may post a picture or ask an inane question of no one in particular.

Or possibly not talk about how BHTV is ending but instead engage in meaningless snark about what someone else wrote.

Expecting some useful commenting from rcocean ... Wriiight.;)

Ocean 11-30-2011 10:24 PM

Re: Dunkirk (Robert Wright & Mickey Kaus)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rcocean (Post 233074)
I just to say that I haven't listened to the DV but wanted to post anyway, even thought I have nothing to say.

Later, I might half listen to the DV and then comment about how I'm half the way through and ask other people what the other half was about.

Or I just may post a picture or ask an inane question of no one in particular.

Or you might as well stop posting these ridiculous attempts to be funny or snarky or whatever your delusional mind is telling you it is.

And stop bothering me in a moment of grief. I'm not sure what I'm grieving but I thought you would be dying to know. Cousin!

thouartgob 11-30-2011 10:44 PM

Mickey's back yay ... where's the Tylenol?
 
First of all condolences to Mickey and his brother Stephen ( who was on once or twice )

Second Mickey never change.

Third ... It wasn't obama being peeved ( tantrum ... really ? ) it was self-aggrandizing pols like Cantor who when close to the president ( or vice-president ) go off on dramatic shows of defiance as if there was any point. The president can't be near these people it seems since some of them can't be trusted that close to power or other high status primates :)

Where is that damn Tylenol

thouartgob 11-30-2011 10:55 PM

Bob is a Public Image Limited (PIL ) fan ???
 
Bob RISEs to the occasion and says "anger is an energy" ... in his own way, politically speaking of course.

Here is the relevant part of video for Rise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejRal5xFWA4&t=4m0s


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