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Bloggingheads 03-06-2011 08:00 PM

Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 

timboy 03-06-2011 09:32 PM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
I'm not usually sensitive to this kind of thing, but Mark's verbal tic of "y'know" is so pervasive that it really got on my nerves.

Diane1976 03-06-2011 10:34 PM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
Yes! That drives me crazy. And it's catching. If one person in the conversation does it, the other person sometimes starts too.

Otherwise Mark seems knowledgeable and a good communicator. There must be some form of therapy that can eliminate "y'know", "um", "uh", "like", "sort of", even "right?", etc.

Globalcop 03-07-2011 03:28 AM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
So many boring BloggingHeads lately. I can't get past the first 15 minutes of most of them this week. Yawn.

Diane1976 03-07-2011 09:57 AM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
I enjoyed this diavalog very much (in spite of the y'knows), and almost all of the recent ones, especially related to events in the ME and Northern Africa, involving people with significant knowledge of the situations, such as these two. I hope there will be more, related to other countries as well.

I've followed the Darfur story off and on and I appreciated hearing from Mark and Rebecca about the policy issues, the advocacy groups and roles of different governments, the UN and other international bodies, etc.

Re Powell on Darfur, based on my own limited knowledge, I don't think it was contradictory for Powell to refer to genocide while saying this didn't necessarily obligate the US to take a specific action, such as sending the US military. The concern was that if the US used the term genocide it would automatically be required to take a unilateral action of that sort, which might not be in anybody's interest, and is not the case under the Convention anyway. Not sure about US law, but I doubt if it would include that kind of automatic requirement. It wasn't unreasonable for him to make this statement to generate more support for action through the UN, involving other countries, and, as Rebecca mentioned, it strengthened the position of activists as well. The ICC reached the same conclusion about the definition as well, after consideration.

I don't see genocide as a meaningless "label" though, or it shouldn't be. It has a specific legal definition distinguishing it from any armed conflict at all. It can be used inappropriately in promoting political causes, possibly for invalid reasons, or in a way that makes it meaningless.

bjkeefe 03-07-2011 11:16 AM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by timboy (Post 200147)
I'm not usually sensitive to this kind of thing, but Mark's verbal tic ...

The thing about making a comment like that? All you do is make it more likely that other people will be unable to avoid noticing it. So, for whatever moment of satisfaction you gained by indulging in this complaint, you've probably made things worse for a bunch of other people.

Mark Leon Goldberg 03-07-2011 11:36 AM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 200169)
The thing about making a comment like that? All you do is make it more likely that other people will be unable to avoid noticing it. So, for whatever moment of satisfaction you gained by indulging in this complaint, you've probably made things worse for a bunch of other people.

For the record, I didn't notice it until timboy mentioned...

Diane1976 03-07-2011 11:53 AM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
Maybe I shouldn't have said anything either. I was listening and thinking the same thing when I noticed the comment and responded without thinking about it.

In any case, I did appreciate the discussion, would like to hear more from Mark and Rebecca, and am sorry for the the comment.

Btw, there was a much worse example in some previous diavlog, possibly what made me overly aware of this sort of thing.

nikkibong 03-07-2011 12:05 PM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Diane1976 (Post 200171)
Maybe I shouldn't have said anything either. I was listening and thinking the same thing when I noticed the comment and responded without thinking about it.

In any case, I did appreciate the discussion, would like to hear more from Mark and Rebecca, and am sorry for the the comment.

Btw, there was a much worse example in some previous diavlog, possibly what made me overly aware of this sort of thing.

Shorter Diane1976:

Quote:

How high shall I jump, Mr. Keefe?

Diane1976 03-07-2011 02:19 PM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nikkibong (Post 200173)
Shorter Diane1976:

It was more like I thought BJKeefe had a point but Mark's message made me feel awful. :-(

stephanie 03-07-2011 02:20 PM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Diane1976 (Post 200163)
I enjoyed this diavalog very much (in spite of the y'knows), and almost all of the recent ones, especially related to events in the ME and Northern Africa, involving people with significant knowledge of the situations, such as these two. I hope there will be more, related to other countries as well.

Me too. (Except I am not bothered by the "you knows.")

nikkibong 03-07-2011 03:50 PM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Leon Goldberg (Post 200170)
For the record, I didn't notice it until timboy mentioned...

well, that's the point, isn't it?

TwinSwords 03-07-2011 04:55 PM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 200169)
The thing about making a comment like that? All you do is make it more likely that other people will be unable to avoid noticing it. So, for whatever moment of satisfaction you gained by indulging in this complaint, you've probably made things worse for a bunch of other people.

I agree wholeheartedly. For what it's worth, I listened to (and enjoyed) the entire diavlog last night and never noticed Mark saying "y'know." I think the reason I didn't notice is because it's perfectly normal.

And as long as I'm commenting, I'll add: Good to see Mark back here. Same reaction I had to seeing his old mate Matthew, last week.

bjkeefe 03-07-2011 05:16 PM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 200202)
And as long as I'm commenting, I'll add: Good to see Mark back here. Same reaction I had to seeing his old mate Matthew, last week.

Agreed. And I thought Bec brought some really interesting perspectives, especially concerning agitation for action from the grassroots.

nikkibong 03-07-2011 05:30 PM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 200202)
I agree wholeheartedly. For what it's worth, I listened to (and enjoyed) the entire diavlog last night and never noticed Mark saying "y'know."

well, bully for you. but that experience was far from, ya know, universal.

why is that such a problem for you and your boss?

TwinSwords 03-07-2011 06:03 PM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nikkibong (Post 200207)
well, bully for you. but that experience was far from, ya know, universal.

why is that such a problem for you and your boss?

Think of your fellow man, Nikkibong.

TwinSwords 03-07-2011 06:06 PM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nikkibong (Post 200207)
well, bully for you. but that experience was far from, ya know, universal.

why is that such a problem for you and your boss?

Also, good to see you back after your hiatus.

badhatharry 03-08-2011 11:19 AM

Re: Fighting for Darfur (Mark Leon Goldberg & Rebecca Hamilton)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nikkibong (Post 200173)
Shorter Diane1976:How high shall I jump, Mr. Keefe?

answer: high enough to please but low enough to fly below the radar and keep off the shit list. It's quite a stunt but a rare few have mastered the exercise.

What I love is his feined concern for the enjoyment of others.


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