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Sulla the Dictator 11-15-2011 10:29 PM

Re: Let me help you out, Glenn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 231688)
Then let me go for the Full Monty. Reagan was pretty dumb, a fact that has exactly nothing to do with "anti-communism."

What does it have to do with, his inability to name the capitols of all 57 states? This angle of attack by liberals seems like sour grapes. We have Reagan's personal writings now; we know that this charge was never true.

Quote:

He was also apparently suffering early-stage Alzheimer's during his second term.
According to whom, his embittered, twisted wretch of a son?

Quote:

He may have been good for the movement, but there are plenty of us who believe he was a disaster domestically, and excepting his good fortune in having Gorbachev as his Soviet counterpart he was pretty awful overseas, too.
Ronald Reagan was one of the greatest Presidents of the 20th century. His foreign policy was excellent.

Simon Willard 11-15-2011 10:47 PM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by T.G.G.P (Post 231735)
It's not just an appearance from the debates, Rick Perry is not too smart.

Interesting link. It says, "Perry got a C in Reproduction in Farm Animals".

Don Zeko 11-15-2011 11:04 PM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by T.G.G.P (Post 231735)
It's not just an appearance from the debates, Rick Perry is not too smart.

I think this is basically beside the point. Herman Cain is a successful businessman and an effective speaker, so I assume that he's at least fairly smart. But he still manages to flub answers spectacularly because he doesn't know anything about what Presidents are supposed to know about and isn't interested in changing that. Perry, on the other hand, didn't know anything about this stuff when he was governor of Texas, and now he's trying to cram for the Presidency at the last minute while campaigning non-stop. Because of that, he's making mistakes that a real candidate who had taken time to prepare for this wouldn't.

stephanie 11-15-2011 11:46 PM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zeko (Post 231738)
Perry, on the other hand, didn't know anything about this stuff when he was governor of Texas, and now he's trying to cram for the Presidency at the last minute while campaigning non-stop. Because of that, he's making mistakes that a real candidate who had taken time to prepare for this wouldn't.

I was thinking something similar. One can be governor and be amazingly uninformed about national issues, especially once you get to foreign policy, because the issues that the governor is most concerned with are often quite state-specific. (One can also be a governor and be a complete moron, of course. I thought Blago was embarassingly dumb when he was just my congressman.) It doesn't surprise me that people like Palin and Perry -- apart from whatever one thinks of their intelligence or study habits -- have a particularly hard time, because both of their states are probably even more that way than others and pride themselves on being more important than the national gov't to residents. And it's not like one gets the sense that Perry would do better if speaking with nuance on the issues. He just has to be more fluent and stop saying nice things about immigrants and maple syrup.

Of course, Perry sort of put himself out as an expert on certain kinds of national issues with his federalism thing, but that doesn't require anything more than a few set issues and clearly wasn't prepared with a run at national office in mind -- or at least the Soc Sec is unconsistitional thing would suggest not.

In any case, I think this is a separate issue from the oops unless that and some of the other missteps are just an effect of him trying to play catch up. If I have to buy into one of the theories, I go with the "it reveals the essential insincerity of the desire to get rid of the agencies" one.

AemJeff 11-15-2011 11:48 PM

Re: Let me help you out, Glenn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator (Post 231736)
What does it have to do with, his inability to name the capitols of all 57 states? This angle of attack by liberals seems like sour grapes. We have Reagan's personal writings now; we know that this charge was never true.



According to whom, his embittered, twisted wretch of a son?



Ronald Reagan was one of the greatest Presidents of the 20th century. His foreign policy was excellent.

Only a single argument in three grafs! His "writings" prove that how?

Starwatcher162536 11-16-2011 12:00 AM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Willard (Post 231737)
Interesting link. It says, "Perry got a C in Reproduction in Farm Animals".

Indeed. The most surprising thing to me there was that there exists such a thing as a Reproduction in Farm Animals class. I know there was a fair amount of study starting in the 50's and continuing to today regarding fish reproduction in an aquaculture setting that spanned everything from their physiology to their mitochondrial DNA markers, but I had no idea encouraging reproduction in more conventional farm animals entailed anything more then putting them in a pen together when the female is in heat at letting them go at it.

miceelf 11-16-2011 12:28 AM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Starwatcher162536 (Post 231742)
Indeed. The most surprising thing to me there was that there exists such a thing as a Reproduction in Farm Animals class. I know there was a fair amount of study starting in the 50's and continuing to today regarding fish reproduction in an aquaculture setting that spanned everything from their physiology to their mitochondrial DNA markers, but I had no idea encouraging reproduction in more conventional farm animals entailed anything more then putting them in a pen together when the female is in heat at letting them go at it.

When I was growing up on the farm, we couldn't afford a bull, and a nice lady came by and gave our cows the human touch. Nice work if you can get it.

That said, I suspect the people who are making fun of the majors of some of the OWS kids aren't going to say anything about Reproduction in Farm Animals.

For anyone growing up on a farm, as Perry did, it would be kind of like majoring in Housework. And getting a C.

Sulla the Dictator 11-16-2011 04:02 AM

Re: Why is Cain not viewed as historic as Obama?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thouartgob (Post 231702)
Well Jesse Jackson and Alan Keyes both ran for president already so there is nothing historical about either Obama in '07 or Cain '11. History will be made when the votes are made.

Alan Keyes was the first person I ever voted for. :)

Sulla the Dictator 11-16-2011 04:07 AM

Re: Let me help you out, Glenn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 231740)
Only a single argument in three grafs! His "writings" prove that how?

Have you read any of Reagan's private diary or the speeches we know he wrote?

AemJeff 11-16-2011 06:49 AM

Re: Let me help you out, Glenn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator (Post 231753)
Have you read any of Reagan's private diary or the speeches we know he wrote?

In His Own Hand seemed unsurprising, reductive, doctrinaire, and a little paranoid (commies!) He had wit and charm; but he was no analyst and a boring, simplistic political philosopher, imo.

Florian 11-16-2011 07:56 AM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zeko (Post 231738)
Herman Cain is a successful businessman and an effective speaker, so I assume that he's at least fairly smart. But he still manages to flub answers spectacularly because he doesn't know anything about what Presidents are supposed to know about and isn't interested in changing that.

A particularly spectacular flub:

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/monde...-libyenne.html

No foreign observer of Republican aspirants to the presidency over the past year can fail to be struck by their intellectual mediocrity (which is not the same thing as intelligence, IQ), their unfitness for high office. When a string of candidates---Palin, Bachmann, Perry, Cain---are actually taken seriously in the US, you have to wonder whether American democracy is capable of producing leaders. Even Reagan looks well-informed in retrospect.

basman 11-16-2011 09:44 PM

Re: Let me help you out, Glenn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by timba (Post 231631)
. My guess is (starting dumb and getting dumber): Bush, Perry, Reagan.

Okay Ace, you're on.

Make the case that Bush (I'm assuming 43) is dumb!

If you can't, I promise not to yell "TIMBA!"

Itzik Basman

ledocs 11-21-2011 04:02 AM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Yeah, he's a fucking genius. Please.

ledocs 11-21-2011 04:14 AM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
One certainly does wonder. But the Republicans seem to be having a much bigger problem in this regard than the other major party. I believe David Brooks and David Frum have pointed out over the past few years that the Republican Party is even more anti-intellectual than the Democratic Party. Why do we need elites when "the market" can decide everything? So you've got Romney, who is a traditional politician with some brains, and he elicits virtually no enthusiasm among Republicans. He'll probably get the nomination, because the other candidates don't even pass a smell test. It's a horrible indictment of American politics.

Florian 11-21-2011 04:33 AM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ledocs (Post 232361)
One certainly does wonder. But the Republicans seem to be having a much bigger problem in this regard than the other major party. I believe David Brooks and David Frum have pointed out over the past few years that the Republican Party is even more anti-intellectual than the Democratic Party. Why do we need elites when "the market" can decide everything? So you've got Romney, who is a traditional politician with some brains, and he elicits virtually no enthusiasm among Republicans. He'll probably get the nomination, because the other candidates don't even pass a smell test. It's a horrible indictment of American politics.

Yes, it is. I agree that the Democrats have a slight edge, but since they have to compete with the dumbest of the dumb, what can they do but dumb down the debate?

I will refrain from making invidious comparisons with French and other European politicians (since they always draw fire from some of the commenters here), but there is something to be said for political systems that select leaders from a highly educated technocratic Úlite.

But then there is Berlusconi....

Sulla the Dictator 11-21-2011 06:11 PM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Florian (Post 232363)
Yes, it is. I agree that the Democrats have a slight edge, but since they have to compete with the dumbest of the dumb, what can they do but dumb down the debate?

I will refrain from making invidious comparisons with French and other European politicians (since they always draw fire from some of the commenters here), but there is something to be said for political systems that select leaders from a highly educated technocratic Úlite.

But then there is Berlusconi....

You will find that when the self described "smartest people in the room" fail, and fail in such a way as to threaten cataclysm, the demos stops trusting the "highly educated technocratic elite".

badhatharry 11-21-2011 07:24 PM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Florian (Post 232363)
I will refrain from making invidious comparisons with French and other European politicians .

Do you have a projected time frame for starting that?

Florian 11-22-2011 02:48 AM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 232406)
Do you have a projected time frame for starting that?

It was only for that one post. But if you vanish from the site, I will stop forever. After all, if it weren't for you and a few others here who identify with the party of idiots, there would be no one to take offense at my remarks.

Sulla the Dictator 11-22-2011 03:24 AM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Florian (Post 232426)
It was only for that one post. But if you vanish from the site, I will stop forever. After all, if it weren't for you and a few others here who identify with the party of idiots, there would be no one to take offense at my remarks.

Are you suggesting that the American left wouldn't be offended at the things you say?

Sounds strangely plausible to me. Of course....I must admit this type of talk rings rather hollow since you said you would like Barack Obama as President of France. Surely you know that you are the change you have been waiting for. Deep.

ledocs 11-22-2011 04:23 AM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
I thought this was another chatty, not very serious discussion of any of the topics covered.

Why are we supposed to be surprised that Republicans are happy to have a conservative black candidate? There is nothing, absolutely nothing, surprising about this. Especially since he's not going to get the nomination, as both interlocutors agree.

The discussion of Penn State was stupid. The only story there is the corruption of American universities by big-time football and basketball. Everyone knows the score here except these two. There is a lot of money involved.

Althouse hasn't even heard of "Inside Job?" Get a life, Ann.

Loury says, incredibly, that he has seen no navel-gazing article of repentance within the economics profession as a result of the financial crisis. Um, what about Krugman's long piece in the NYT Magazine of a few years ago? That ruffled some feathers, including those of the big-time economist from Washington University in St. Louis who came on bhtv to pillory Krugman and to say that Krugman had not practiced serious economics in twenty years.

I say that I want more academics, and I do, but not if it's going to be like this. I expect people to do some intellectual work before coming on, even if they are not being paid. Maybe it's just over-exposure of these two, maybe it's just my mood, I don't know, but I really thought this was bad, almost showing contempt for the audience.

miceelf 11-22-2011 06:43 AM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ledocs (Post 232434)
I say that I want more academics, and I do, but not if it's going to be like this. I expect people to do some intellectual work before coming on, even if they are not being paid. Maybe it's just over-exposure of these two, maybe it's just my mood, I don't know, but I really thought this was bad, almost showing contempt for the audience.

Well, they are talking about things well outside of their expertise.

I think a few of the usual academics are coming on not primarily as academics, but as reasonably smart laypeople who have opinions. In addition to Althouse and Loury, I think McWhorter usually falls into this category. Most of the discussions he is involved in don't center on linguistics.

kezboard 11-22-2011 11:12 AM

Re: Why is Cain not viewed as historic as Obama?
 
Alan Keyes was actually the first presidential candidate I ever saw, because he was the only presidential candidate who came to Salem, Oregon, in 1996. Pretty much all I remember is that he spent the whole time talking about God and I was confused about how that was politically relevant. Since I was ten, I guess I wasn't totally tapped in to the culture war.

kezboard 11-22-2011 11:19 AM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Are you suggesting that the American left wouldn't be offended at the things you say?

Sounds strangely plausible to me.
If you check some older threads, I think you will find that I have been offended by Florian on multiple occasions.

badhatharry 11-22-2011 11:51 AM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kezboard (Post 232442)
If you check some older threads, I think you will find that I have been offended by Florian on multiple occasions.

He's an equal opportunity employer of self important commentary.

thouartgob 11-22-2011 12:00 PM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ledocs (Post 232434)
Why are we supposed to be surprised that Republicans are happy to have a conservative black candidate? There is nothing, absolutely nothing, surprising about this. Especially since he's not going to get the nomination, as both interlocutors agree.

Especially black candidate that says racism isn't a problem. Didn't Glenn's diavlog with Amy Wax give a few clues as to why African Americans might not be fans of the republican party these days ?

Let is not be said that Cain's candidacy isn't an authentic expression of the African American experience but let's be aware that he is in somewhat rarefied company.

ledocs 11-22-2011 02:50 PM

Re: Values Added: Special Shame Edition (Ann Althouse & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miceelf (Post 232435)
Well, they are talking about things well outside of their expertise.

I think a few of the usual academics are coming on not primarily as academics, but as reasonably smart laypeople who have opinions. In addition to Althouse and Loury, I think McWhorter usually falls into this category. Most of the discussions he is involved in don't center on linguistics.

Yeah, I get that, and I think I'm losing patience with the premise.

Matthew Continetti, who was a contributor here, was a guest on "Left, Right and Center" last week, and he remarked that Republicans are not polling well among white working class voters in the rust belt. And he does not think that Romney holds much appeal for these "folks," although Obama is presumably not beloved by them either. Anyway, that's the sort of political commentary I would expect to get as we enter the election season.

I want to hear people who know a lot about American politics talk about American politics, political scientists and sociologists. I'm tired of these slightly glorified bull sessions.

miceelf 11-22-2011 04:37 PM

Re: Why is Cain not viewed as historic as Obama?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kezboard (Post 232440)
Alan Keyes was actually the first presidential candidate I ever saw, because he was the only presidential candidate who came to Salem, Oregon, in 1996. Pretty much all I remember is that he spent the whole time talking about God and I was confused about how that was politically relevant. Since I was ten, I guess I wasn't totally tapped in to the culture war.

Alan Keyes can rot in hell.

Insanity can be cute and kind of charming. But his daughter spent a good part of a year homeless in Chicago, because he didn't approve of her sexual orientation.


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