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-   -   The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury) (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=7274)

sugarkang 01-02-2012 09:29 PM

Re: advice from Ron Paul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cragger (Post 235887)
I also think his storming out of an interview in a huff when asked about them indicates someone temperamentally unsuitable for office, and consider about half of his ideas completely nutty.

Except your opinion of the interview was manufactured by the powers at be. Try watching the full interview. The Democratic Party has been engaging in Fox News tactics for the past few years and justifying it to themselves as if they were the only legitimate wielders of power.

It's not necessary to endorse Ron Paul. There are many understandable and legitimate reasons why someone wouldn't. What's not legitimate is the systematic marginalizing of a candidate through misdirection.

Sulla the Dictator 01-02-2012 11:03 PM

Re: advice from Ron Paul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarkang (Post 235926)
Except your opinion of the interview was manufactured by the powers at be. Try watching the full interview. The Democratic Party has been engaging in Fox News tactics for the past few years and justifying it to themselves as if they were the only legitimate wielders of power.

It's not necessary to endorse Ron Paul. There are many understandable and legitimate reasons why someone wouldn't. What's not legitimate is the systematic marginalizing of a candidate through misdirection.

The "last few years"? I think you're only cognizent of it because they're targeting your guy. FOX news is a reaction to them, not they to it.

sugarkang 01-03-2012 12:10 AM

Re: advice from Ron Paul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator (Post 235946)
The "last few years"? I think you're only cognizent of it because they're targeting your guy. FOX news is a reaction to them, not they to it.

Partially agree. The reactions happen on both sides, but the Roger Ailes Fox era was first to do blatant propagandizing. Prior to this, the liberal media existed, but only because they were liberals, not because they were pushing a liberal agenda.

Sulla the Dictator 01-03-2012 01:31 AM

Re: advice from Ron Paul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarkang (Post 235952)
Partially agree. The reactions happen on both sides, but the Roger Ailes Fox era was first to do blatant propagandizing. Prior to this, the liberal media existed, but only because they were liberals, not because they were pushing a liberal agenda.

I don't think there is a functional difference. Consider the 1992 campaign. On what planet would a fair media carry Democratic attacks about Bush breaking campaign promises when the violation was a compromise with Democrats? Or literally any of the media coverage of the 1995-1998 political battles? What kind of media treats Bob Dole as a ridiculous figure, with a ruined arm from combat with Nazis, while acting as if John Kerry was Hector reborn?

The game is rigged.

sugarkang 01-03-2012 02:06 AM

Re: advice from Ron Paul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator (Post 235956)
I don't think there is a functional difference. Consider the 1992 campaign. On what planet would a fair media carry Democratic attacks about Bush breaking campaign promises when the violation was a compromise with Democrats? Or literally any of the media coverage of the 1995-1998 political battles? What kind of media treats Bob Dole as a ridiculous figure, with a ruined arm from combat with Nazis, while acting as if John Kerry was Hector reborn?

The game is rigged.

Well, okay. I agree there's no functional difference, but that's not the same as the game being rigged. Rigging the game requires intentionality. Keep in mind, too, our political divisions exist so sharply now because our economy sucks. Nobody gives a damn who the President is if everyone feels good about their standard of living.

seethruit 01-03-2012 01:52 PM

Re: Ron Paul is not really running for president
 
Well said. But unfortunately Paul's other distracting hobby horses and crazy notions make it far too easy for journalists, pundits, and "serious minded" folks to dismiss his spot-on critique of US foreign policy. Not that they would pay much attention in any case, even from a less flawed vehicle.

What I really appreciate from Glenn and John is their fearless and unstinting converation - I can never predict what either one will say or think. Such a welcome respite from political correctness and received wisdom. I sure hope that the two will continue through the transitions at Bloggingheads.

handle 01-03-2012 06:15 PM

Re: advice from Ron Paul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarkang (Post 235964)
Well, okay. I agree there's no functional difference, but that's not the same as the game being rigged. Rigging the game requires intentionality. Keep in mind, too, our political divisions exist so sharply now because our economy sucks. Nobody gives a damn who the President is if everyone feels good about their standard of living.

Bingo! that's why I call this "the finger pointing stage" and the "rhetoric of failure"*.
I just don't think either side has proposed anything but ways deeper into crisis in the last 50 years. The Reagan / Bush / Clinton / Bush years were nothing but a credit card spending spree capitalized, and capitalized on by charlatans, IMO. And the much lauded expediting of the fall of "communism" played no small role in this.
Not that I wanted people to suffer under totalitarianism, I'm not ready to hand over my gainful employment to them just yet, thanks anyway.

But let's ask the British how Hayekian economic policies can reverse this kind of economic floundering and pillaging. The 80's went well for them, yes?
Just for the record, I'm not a fan of Keynes either, but the last great depression did have an end.. not sure the former caused the latter however.

I do, however, believe that science and math shows us that proper controls can help stabilize wildly fluctuating systems. Does this apply to economic policy? Not sure of that either. But I do not see a lot of "experts" or non-experts (with inordinately high regard for their own opinions) touting what I would consider viable strategies.

*H/T Sting

stephanie 01-03-2012 06:31 PM

Re: advice from Ron Paul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarkang (Post 235964)
Nobody gives a damn who the President is if everyone feels good about their standard of living.

The second half of the '90s argues otherwise.

johnmarzan 01-04-2012 04:10 AM

Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
 
john mcwhorter, even mexico has voter id cards to protect against illegal voting by non citizens.

http://www.vdare.com/articles/memo-f...rs-how-come-it

Starwatcher162536 01-04-2012 06:31 AM

Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
 
Mexico has far worse problems of racism then the United States. Racism comes in more flavors then Northern European whites against people of color, ya know?

johnmarzan 01-04-2012 07:00 AM

Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Starwatcher162536 (Post 236136)
Mexico has far worse problems of racism then the United States. Racism comes in more flavors then Northern European whites against people of color, ya know?

what has racism got to do with voter id laws and not allowing non citizens to vote? we're already in the 21st century here. even where i live i have to show an id (driver's, voters etc) to show them that i'm not voting multiple times (called a "flying voter")

who's afraid of measures to protect against voter fraud?

cragger 01-04-2012 11:45 AM

Re: advice from Ron Paul
 
Rewatching a clip of the event I agree that "stormed out" is excessive and inaccurate. I should have just said "left in a huff."

Starwatcher162536 01-04-2012 02:45 PM

Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmarzan (Post 236139)
what has racism got to do with voter id laws and not allowing non citizens to vote? we're already in the 21st century here. even where i live i have to show an id (driver's, voters etc) to show them that i'm not voting multiple times (called a "flying voter")

who's afraid of measures to protect against voter fraud?

I misunderstood your comment then, I interpreted it as offering proof that voter ID laws could not be racist because even Mexico has voter ID laws and with it's largely non white population it wouldn't be because of Mexico's own variant of racism.

johnmarzan 01-10-2012 11:22 PM

Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
 
here's another reason to have voter ID
http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/10/el...schief-making/

johnmarzan 01-11-2012 10:41 PM

Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
 
still think voter ID laws are unnecessary, john mcwhorter? you think they're racist?

http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/11/vi...peoples-names/

Sulla the Dictator 01-17-2012 08:34 AM

Re: The Bromance (John McWhorter & Glenn Loury)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmarzan (Post 236695)
still think voter ID laws are unnecessary, john mcwhorter? you think they're racist?

http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/11/vi...peoples-names/

The argument against voter ID is pretty nonsensical. What is the proposition here? That there is a significant portion of the American electorate which does not have, and cannot afford, a state ID? And such a group votes in any significant number? Frankly, I'm curious how anyone who can't find $15 (Ever, since a non drivers license doesn't expire) can possibly be an informed voter and a useful participant in democracy. But lets compromise. How about a FREE voter ID you can get from the DMV? Obviously anyone who can't put $15 together (Ever) doesn't have anything to do which would interfere with an hour or two at the DMV.


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