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Bloggingheads 03-12-2010 06:03 PM

The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 

Ocean 03-12-2010 10:16 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
I'm fully aware that this is the first comment on this diavlog. I'm fully aware of BhTV rules. I will only present facts.

And a toned down opinion: http://forums.randi.org/images/smili...chemot/huh.gif

chamblee54 03-12-2010 11:12 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Discussing Mr. Massa, there were suggestions of a democratic cover up. It was said that higher ups "sat on" the allegations about Mr. Massa.
The phrase "sit on it" has another meaning, which may very well apply to Mr. Massa.

harkin 03-12-2010 11:36 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
"We have to pass the bill, so you can find out what's in it.....WHY IS EVERYONE LAUGHING"

"Think of an economy where people could be an artist or a photographer or a writer without worrying about keeping their day job in order to have health insurance......WHY IS EVERYONE LAUGHING?????


Nope - not some random member of the Obamacare-Now crowd, but the Speaker Of The House.

AemJeff 03-12-2010 11:43 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harkin (Post 154154)
"We have to pass the bill, so you can find out what's in it.....WHY IS EVERYONE LAUGHING"

"Think of an economy where people could be an artist or a photographer or a writer without worrying about keeping their day job in order to have health insurance......WHY IS EVERYONE LAUGHING?????


Nope - not some random member of the Obamacare-Now crowd, but the Speaker Of The House.

I take it you've never been self-employed. Or have ever witnessed somebody in a low-payed occupation struggle with health problems. It's hilarious.

listener 03-12-2010 11:49 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 154142)
I'm fully aware that this is the first comment on this diavlog. I'm fully aware of BhTV rules. I will only present facts.

And a toned down opinion: http://forums.randi.org/images/smili...chemot/huh.gif

Yeah, I was wondering if there was going to be a mention of Clouthier in today's TWIB, considering her performance last week.

To begin with, I have always appreciated Matt Lewis' intelligence and open-mindedness, and have said as much in these forums. It was good to have him back.

It was nice of Scher and Lewis to stand up for Clouthier in the face of the overwhelmingly critical comments directed at her, but as far as I am concerned, she earned them. Clouthier's confrontational stance, and her repeatedly resorting to political boilerplate, were at cross-purposes to the whole point of TWIB, which as Scher and Lewis themselves point out, is not to score political points, but to provide an overview and analysis of the blogosphere. Clouthier seemed to be trying to turn the diavlog into what Lewis describes as "the modern Crossfire thing," which is exactly what TWIB is not supposed to be.

Ocean 03-12-2010 11:52 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by listener (Post 154160)
It was nice of Scher and Lewis to stand up for Clouthier in the face of the overwhelmingly critical comments directed at her, but as far as I am concerned, she earned them. Clouthier's confrontational stance, and her repeatedly resorting to political boilerplate, were at cross-purposes to the whole point of TWIB, which as Scher and Lewis themselves point out, is not to score political points, but to provide an overview and analysis of the blogosphere. Clouthier seemed to be trying to turn the diavlog into the what Lewis describes as "the modern Crossfire thing," which is exactly what TWIB is not supposed to be.

Yes.

listener 03-12-2010 11:52 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 154157)
I take it you've never been self-employed. Or have ever witnessed somebody in a low-payed occupation struggle with health problems. It's hilarious.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. Also, having watched the entire diavlog, other than the fact that the topic of health care reform in general was discussed, the commenter's remarks didn't seem to have any specific relevance to anything Scher or Lewis said. That, and the sarcastic tone of the commenter's remarks (and his use of all caps and repeated multiple punctuation marks), lead me so suspect that this person's interest is more in provoking and venting than in engaging in actual discussion (is that what they call "trolling"?).

AemJeff 03-13-2010 12:19 AM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by listener (Post 154162)
That's pretty much what I was thinking. Also, having watched the entire diavlog, other than the fact that the topic of health care reform in general was discussed, the commenter's remarks didn't seem to have any specific relevance to anything Scher or Lewis said. That, and the sarcastic tone of the commenter's remarks (and his use of all caps and repeated multiple punctuation marks), lead me so suspect that this person's interest is more in provoking and venting than in engaging in actual discussion (is that what they call "trolling"?)

Sometimes harkin seems only to want to provoke a reaction, which is a shame because the harder he seems to be trying to do that, the less interesting his posts become, overall. Lately most of his posts have read like grievance ejaculations with tenuous ties, at best, to either the commentary or to the content. We need better conservatives around here!

uncle ebeneezer 03-13-2010 12:31 AM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
One of the harshest lessons I have ever learned was being unemployed for a year and effectively without healthcare for 18 months (my job benefits don't kick in for another couple weeks.) With only two minor cases of sickness: possible H1N1 bout last April, and currently a case of tonsillitis (not requiring surgery.) Both combined only in a total of three trips to UrgentCare for antibiotics, but the cost was about a month's rent all told. It really made me appreciate the difficulty of living this way that many people are forced to that don't have health insurance or don't have income or both. And that's not even the same ballgame as people with REAL problems like cancer, diabetes, HIV etc. I have never felt so strongly that some form of universal healthcare is the way to go for any society that truly cares about it's citizens.

claymisher 03-13-2010 01:02 AM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer (Post 154166)
One of the harshest lessons I have ever learned was being unemployed for a year and effectively without healthcare for 18 months (my job benefits don't kick in for another couple weeks.) With only two minor cases of sickness: possible H1N1 bout last April, and currently a case of tonsillitis (not requiring surgery.) Both combined only in a total of three trips to UrgentCare for antibiotics, but the cost was about a month's rent all told. It really made me appreciate the difficulty of living this way that many people are forced to that don't have health insurance or don't have income or both. And that's not even the same ballgame as people with REAL problems like cancer, diabetes, HIV etc. I have never felt so strongly that some form of universal healthcare is the way to go for any society that truly cares about it's citizens.

Congrats on the new job!

Mannish Boy 03-13-2010 05:50 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
I love Bill Lewis. I love Matt Scher! I love all of the other commenters too.

listener 03-13-2010 06:15 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mannish Boy (Post 154225)
I love Bill Lewis. I love Matt Scher! I love all of the other commenters too.

And I love McKinley Morganfield. Welcome and congratulations on your first post here.

badhatharry 03-14-2010 12:38 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by listener (Post 154160)
Yeah, I was wondering if there was going to be a mention of Clouthier in today's TWIB, considering her performance last week.
It was nice of Scher and Lewis to stand up for Clouthier in the face of the overwhelmingly critical comments directed at her, but as far as I am concerned, she earned them. Clouthier's confrontational stance, and her repeatedly resorting to political boilerplate, were at cross-purposes to the whole point of TWIB, which as Scher and Lewis themselves point out, is not to score political points, but to provide an overview and analysis of the blogosphere. Clouthier seemed to be trying to turn the diavlog into what Lewis describes as "the modern Crossfire thing," which is exactly what TWIB is not supposed to be.

And now we are treated to an episode II of trashing Michelle. Geez! She was new and I think she did an OK job. She answered Bill's questions about the blogosphere on the right. If her answers were boilerplate, as you describe, please remember we've been at this for a year, and we have a 24 hour news cycle. Is she supposed to make stuff up so it's new?

And maybe she wasn't up to speed on what you say TWIB is supposed to be.

Back off people! Have a heart.

badhatharry 03-14-2010 01:33 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 154165)
Sometimes harkin seems only to want to provoke a reaction, which is a shame because the harder he seems to be trying to do that, the less interesting his posts become, overall. Lately most of his posts have read like grievance ejaculations with tenuous ties, at best, to either the commentary or to the content. We need better conservatives around here!

That presumes that there is such a thing as a better conservative. I find that very hopeful.

listener 03-14-2010 01:54 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 154294)
Back off people! Have a heart.

Since Matt & Bob brought it up in their conversation, I thought it would be okay to bring it up here. But okay, maybe I was piling on a little too much. Point taken. We of differing perspectives sometimes need each other to keep each other in line.

look 03-14-2010 02:25 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by listener (Post 154162)
That's pretty much what I was thinking. Also, having watched the entire diavlog, other than the fact that the topic of health care reform in general was discussed, the commenter's remarks didn't seem to have any specific relevance to anything Scher or Lewis said. That, and the sarcastic tone of the commenter's remarks (and his use of all caps and repeated multiple punctuation marks), lead me so suspect that this person's interest is more in provoking and venting than in engaging in actual discussion (is that what they call "trolling"?).

The reason harkin was using caps and periods was that he was riffing of this post bjkeefe made to badhatharry, or one similar, where he mocks tea partiers:

bjkeefe:
Quote:

Quote:


The bulk of your argument, and I use that term generously, can be summarized thus:


Quote:
Keep your government hands of my Medi ... WHY IS EVERYONE LAUGHING???1?
http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showpo...9&postcount=11

You have to be here awhile to see that things are not one-sided. Harkin is well-informed and thoughtful, and the more hostile the attacks that fall on him, the more he's hitting the target

Listener, what do you think of harkin's post, above, where Speaker Pelosi says that artists, etc., won't have to worry about keeping their day jobs in order to pay for health insurance?

badhatharry 03-14-2010 03:22 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by look (Post 154305)

You have to be here awhile to see that things are not one-sided. Harkin is well-informed and thoughtful, ....

and quite beleaguered, but never afraid to stand up for what he considers to be the truth.

Thanks for 'splainin', look. I didn't get the connection either.
Dumbass, conservative that I am.
That and that I don't read any of Keefe's posts that have all caps in them. My stomach can't take it.

listener 03-14-2010 03:23 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by look (Post 154305)
Listener, what do you think of harkin's post, above, where Speaker Pelosi says that artists, etc., won't have to worry about keeping their day jobs in order to pay for health insurance?

First of all, thanks for soliciting my opinion and engaging in conversation. I saw the Pelosi interview from which that quote comes, and I have read the Washington Examiner column that harkin linked to. The column was, of course, polemical, and therefore skews Pelosi's words somewhat to make the author's self-admittedly exaggerated points. Polemic is a legitimate form of discourse, but it should be recognized as such and not be mistaken for reasoned, measured argument that attempts to play fair with facts.

Here's how I understood Pelosi's point: I think that what she was saying is that there are professions, such as writing and photography, or any freelance profession (whether artistic in nature or not) whose practitioners can't count on a steady employer to help underwrite their health insurance. Pelosi is advocating for a health care structure in which freelancers have the same access to health insurance as those who choose a safer, more corporate career path. (This would seem help society to avoid financially disincentivizing individualism and risk-taking, values that I would think conservatives would endorse).

The Examiner column also makes some assumptions that I think are just plain wrong, such as the more or less blanket assumption that people in the artistic professions as less productive and valuable to society than.... whom? The author never makes that clear. Certainly, there are those who, like Mary Katharine Ham, appear to view those toiling in the artistic professions as little more than parasitic leeches on society, just as there are those who view bankers and stock marketeers in the same way. It seems glaringly obvious to me that neither stance is true or constructive.

nikkibong 03-14-2010 03:24 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 154315)
and quite beleaguered, but never afraid to stand up for what he considers to be the truth.

or what rush limbaugh considers to be the truth.

badhatharry 03-14-2010 03:30 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nikkibong (Post 154317)
or what rush limbaugh considers to be the truth.

hey! rush is people, too.

badhatharry 03-14-2010 03:38 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by listener (Post 154316)
First of all, thanks for soliciting my opinion and engaging in conversation.

Here's how I understood Pelosi's point: I think that what she was saying is that there are professions, such as writing and photography, or any freelance profession (whether artistic in nature or not) whose practitioners can't count on a steady employer to help underwrite their health insurance. Pelosi is advocating for a health care structure in which freelancers have the same access to health insurance as those who choose a safer, more corporate career path. (This would seem help society to avoid financially disincentivizing individualism and risk-taking, values that I would think conservatives would endorse).

As someone who is self employed, artsy and has been for years, I think I can speak to the reality that people who want to be entrepreneurial can actually obtain health insurance! Surprised? All you have to do is make sure that you can make enough money from your little enterprise to pay the premiums.

I don't have a cell phone, so am not aware of pricing, but I bet someone who is young can get a policy for what they pay for theirs.

I hope I am not appearing to be too self- referential! (that's a reference to McArdle)

bjkeefe 03-14-2010 04:01 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 154321)
I don't have a cell phone, so am not aware of pricing, but I bet someone who is young can get a policy for what they pay for theirs.

I hope I am not appearing to be too self- referential! (that's a reference to McCardle)

You're being like McMegan in another way here, too -- just making up numbers that have no bearing in reality to support something you'd like to believe (e.g., e.g.). If we all could purchase health insurance for the same price as what a cell phone plan costs, there wouldn't be any motivation at all to have health insurance reform of any sort. And before you try to insist that you don't have a cell phone, so how could you know?, I'll point out that you could have found the actual information in about fifteen seconds.

AemJeff 03-14-2010 04:06 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 154320)
hey! rush is people, too.

That's stretching the definitions beyond the breaking point.

badhatharry 03-14-2010 04:14 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 154325)
You're being like McMegan in another way here, too -- just making up numbers that have no bearing in reality to support something you'd like to believe

I made up no numbers, so there!

Second, I carefully qualified my statement by saying "I bet".

So it looks like you can get an unlimited plan for about $69. I bet a lot of people pay more for bells and whistles. And you can get a catastrophic plan in California starting at $79.

listener 03-14-2010 04:18 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 154321)
As someone who is self employed, artsy and has been for years, I think I can speak to the reality that people who want to be entrepreneurial can actually obtain health insurance! Surprised? All you have to do is make sure that you can make enough money from your little enterprise to pay the premiums.

I don't have a cell phone, but I bet someone who is young can get a policy for what they pay for theirs.

I don't have the facts at my disposal to confirm or refute that last assertion. I do know that as a working artist, I was able to obtain health insurance only because the state I live in happens to provide low-cost insurance choices for lower-income people. And even at that subsidized rate, my monthly premiums are about 500% of the cost of my cell phone (I don't have a land line so that I can keep my expenses down). And my policy is extremely minimal, with no drug coverage, mental health coverage, etc.

As someone who is artsy and has been for years (and you have my deep respect for sticking to that path), you must know that sometimes artists must work in obscurity and without recompense for long periods of time before their work pays off financially. For some artists, it may be possible to hold down a day job and still have sufficient time and energy to devote to their creativity (Charles Ives), for others it is simply not (Thelonious Monk).

So I suppose one question is, do we as a community feel an obligation to provide some sort of health care security for those whose "little enterprises" have yet to pay off, or do we feel that we have no such obligation?

badhatharry 03-14-2010 04:24 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 154325)
If we all could purchase health insurance for the same price as what a cell phone plan costs, there wouldn't be any motivation at all to have health insurance reform of any sort.

Also note that I did say a young person. I am not talking about cadillac plans, here, obviously. But as the evil CEO of Whole Foods has suggested, it may be those cadillac plans that are partially responsible for the soaring costs in medical care.

You know, stuff like people going to the doctor and having no idea of the actual cost of the visit and tests because they never ask and don't shop.....stuff like that.
But geez that would take effort and we wouldn't want the peeps to have to do that. It would be much better to upend the economy and pass a bill before it's been read.

bjkeefe 03-14-2010 04:24 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 154329)
I made up no numbers, so there!

Second, I carefully qualified my statement by saying "I bet".

So, you didn't make up numbers, but then you for some reason felt qualified to qualify what you didn't make up? Ooooo-kay.

Quote:

So it looks like you can get an unlimited plan for about $69. I bet a lot of people pay more for bells and whistles. And you can get a catastrophic plan in California starting at $79.
You really think anyone can get this health insurance plan for this price? Again, <strike>Megan</strike> badhat, if we lived in a glibertarian paradise where everyone was young, had no pre-existing health conditions, etc., sure, this might apply. But we don't live in the land of pixie dust and sparkle ponies, I'm sorry to have to tell you. This is why we need health insurance and health care reform.

bjkeefe 03-14-2010 04:27 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 154332)
Also note that I did say a young person.

Here in reality, we are not all young persons, with no pre-existing health conditions.

Quote:

But as the evil CEO of Whole Foods has suggested ...

You know, stuff like people going to the doctor and having no idea of the actual cost of the visit and tests because they never ask and don't shop.....stuff like that.
I can see you're in full glibness mode now, so I think I'll just leave you to your fantasies.

Ocean 03-14-2010 04:36 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 154321)
As someone who is self employed, artsy and has been for years, I think I can speak to the reality that people who want to be entrepreneurial can actually obtain health insurance! Surprised? All you have to do is make sure that you can make enough money from your little enterprise to pay the premiums.

Yeah, I don't know how it's possible that it just doesn't occur to people to do just that. It's so simple. If people only thought a little harder, we would be all successful, rich and immortal. No need for government, I tell you.

No caps at all.

badhatharry 03-14-2010 04:36 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by listener (Post 154330)
And my policy is extremely minimal, with no drug coverage, mental health coverage, etc.


So I suppose one question is, do we as a community feel an obligation to provide some sort of health care security for those whose "little enterprises" have yet to pay off, or do we feel that we have no such obligation?

No drug coverage, no mental health coverage!!!!
I'm talking about a catastrophic plan with a $5000 deductible. Those can be pretty cheap in the long run. (but admittedly gets costlier as you age). In other words, what you save in paying premiums, you can put towards the deductible if you ever have to use it.

And, I feel no obligation to provide health care security other than what is already in place by way of medicaid. People need to take responsibility for their decisions. Artists are no exception.

badhatharry 03-14-2010 04:50 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 154333)

You really think anyone can get this health insurance plan for this price? Again, <strike>Megan</strike> badhat, if we lived in a glibertarian paradise where everyone was young, had no pre-existing health conditions, etc., sure, this might apply. But we don't live in the land of pixie dust and sparkle ponies, I'm sorry to have to tell you. This is why we need health insurance and health care reform.

Again, I said young person and I think that that kind of plan would be appropriate (at minimum) and affordable for most young persons if they wanted to avail themselves

As I have said on many occasions, I love idea of reform, but not your and your cohorts' idea of reform. In your pixie dust (read democratic rhetoric) ridden brain you think that THE BILL is going to make things better.

Can't wait to read your reactions after it's passed.

listener 03-14-2010 04:58 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 154336)
No drug coverage, no mental health coverage!!!!
I'm talking about a catastrophic plan with a $5000 deductible. Those can be pretty cheap in the long run. (but admittedly gets costlier as you age). In other words, what you save in paying premiums, you can put towards the deductible if you ever have to use it.

No need for the four exclamation points, my friend.

I did shop around, and my plan is the least expensive option that was available to me, and is precisely the "catastrophic" type that you describe -- the term just didn't come to mind as I was typing.

We can argue the numbers back and forth, but it looks like the more basic question is the one I asked, and that you answered very clearly:

Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 154336)
I feel no obligation to provide health care security other than what is already in place by way of medicaid. People need to take responsibility for their decisions. Artists are no exception.

I will ask one further question of you. If Medicaid were not already in place, would you be in favor of it if it were being proposed now?

bjkeefe 03-14-2010 04:58 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 154338)
Can't wait to read your reactions after it's passed.

Appreciate the vote of confidence in that occurrence.

badhatharry 03-14-2010 05:04 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 154335)
Yeah, I don't know how it's possible that it just doesn't occur to people to do just that. It's so simple. If people only thought a little harder, we would be all successful, rich and immortal. No need for government, I tell you.

No caps at all.

No, I don't think if people thought a little harder they would be successful and rich. But I do think that if people shopped around for health care the costs wouldn't be as high as they currently are.

It's interesting that you feel obliged to misstate my view to your advantage. But it spells out perfectly the difference between between us. You think government should take care of people and be there if they can't make it. I think that if people don't rely on government, they have a much better chance at being self reliant and possibly successful. No guarantees, of course.

But then that's real life.

Ocean 03-14-2010 05:27 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 154343)
But I do think that if people shopped around for health care the costs wouldn't be as high as they currently are.

What makes you think that it is a problem of shopping around?

Quote:

It's interesting that you feel obliged to misstate my view to your advantage.
I exaggerated your view to show its basic logical weakness. If the solution were so simple and so accessible, there wouldn't be a problem. Your view is shallow and simplistic.


Quote:

But it spells out perfectly the difference between between us. You think government should take care of people and be there if they can't make it. I think that if people don't rely on government, they have a much better chance at being self reliant and possibly successful. No guarantees, of course.
What happens with those who fall under your "no guarantee" category?

Quote:

But then that's real life.
Is this another way of saying "too bad"? I think that "real life" is what we make of it. If real life is unjust or insufficient, then we try to change it. It seems that you are too much of a conformist when it comes to someone else's problems.

But I do agree in one point. I have followed your comments in recent threads. We are in disagreement in many points. I find your position to be selfish and simplistic. You should leave this discussion here. I don't think we are going to find common ground.

badhatharry 03-14-2010 09:48 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 154349)



I exaggerated your view to show its basic logical weakness. If the solution were so simple and so accessible, there wouldn't be a problem. Your view is shallow and simplistic

But I do agree in one point. I have followed your comments in recent threads. We are in disagreement in many points. I find your position to be selfish and simplistic. You should leave this discussion here. I don't think we are going to find common ground.

Again, it is interesting to me that you feel OK about calling me shallow, selfish and simplistic. You also have the tendency to call the end of discussion with the air of superiority that is emblematic of the left. And because of this you are correct that we will never find common ground. I may remind you that it was you who originally responded to my comment and not the other way around.

You people on the left think you have a corner on caring about people. You all have Utopian ideas which bear little resemblance to being anything useful or practical. "Let's just insure everyone! Damn the cost! Don't worry that this may not actually make things any better! Don't consider that it could be done any way but our way!"

But what I experience is that you mostly care about your caring words and people who agree with you. To me it is a lot of lip service.

AemJeff 03-14-2010 09:56 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 154379)
Again, it is interesting to me that you feel OK about calling me shallow, shallow and simplistic. You also have the tendency to call the end of discussion with the air of superiority that is emblematic of the left. And because of this you are correct that we will never find common ground. I may remind you that it was you who originally responded to my comment and not the other way around.

You people on the left think you have a corner on caring about people. You all have Utopian ideas which bear little resemblance to being anything useful or practical. "Let's just insure everyone! Damn the cost! Don't worry that this may not actually make things any better! Don't consider that it could be done any way but our way!"

But what I experience is that you mostly care about your caring words and people who agree with you. To me it is a lot of lip service.

I'm sure this will seem like an instance of ganging up; but that's not my intent. I would like to point out that Ocean's post contained no direct personal characterization of Harry. Rather, Ocean characterized Harry's specific, preciously stated view as "shallow and simplistic." Harry's response, on the other had is filled with direct personal judgments. "You also have the tendency to call the end of discussion with the air of superiority that is emblematic of the left." "You people on the left..." "You all have Utopian ideas which bear little resemblance to being anything useful or practical." "you mostly care about your caring words and people who agree with you."

I think you should look in a mirror, Harry.

badhatharry 03-14-2010 10:02 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by listener (Post 154340)
I did shop around, and my plan is the least expensive option that was available to me, and is precisely the "catastrophic" type that you describe -- the term just didn't come to mind as I was typing.


I will ask one further question of you. If Medicaid were not already in place, would you be in favor of it if it were being proposed now?

The reason for the exclamations was that I haven't had anything even close to mental health or drug benefit for so long it seems pretty extravagant. I made some decisions in my life which put me on the road of the self employed and I have understood what that would mean....no benefits. However, I also understood that if I didn't want to lose everything, I had better be covered for the big stuff so no matter what I found the money for the premium.

I actually am in favor of providing care to people who can't afford it through Medicaid. However, because I have some knowledge of human nature, I know that some of those people could have provided for themselves if they had wanted to. But nothing is perfect, so I accept that situation.

badhatharry 03-14-2010 10:04 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Bocephus Edition (Bill Scher & Matt Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 154380)
I'm sure this will seem like an instance of ganging up; but that's not my intent.

give me a break.


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