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-   -   Commenter Court: The Return (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade) (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=5007)

Bloggingheads 03-03-2010 06:26 PM

Commenter Court: The Return (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)
 

nikkibong 03-03-2010 06:59 PM

Re: Commenter Court: The Return (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)
 
I won't be watching this.*









*(note to aryeh: joke)

claymisher 03-03-2010 07:26 PM

I Am Aware Of All Internet Traditions
 
Naw, the shorter thing is great, but you gotta do it right (sounds like Keefe shanked his). The purpose isn't to second-guess motives, but to identify the actual point the writer is either obscuring or can't manage to complete on their own.

From the originator:

Quote:

As part of my New Year's Resolution to pick a really nasty fight with someone, and as a potential supply of more regular updates, I've decided to become a "watcher." I believe that this was all the rage in weblog circles about a year ago. Anyway, I want to do it, and nobody convinced me that there were better targets for a jihad than Stephen den Beste, so I picked him. It also helps that, as far as I can tell, he's incredibly thin-skinned.... Now, I thought of doing "Smarter Steven den Beste"... [but] people don't necessarily want a Smarter Stephen den Beste. Part of the joy is watching a man who knows nothing about anything except the innards of mobile phones trying to understand a complicated world around him with no sources of information other than the Internet. What people want is a Shorter Stephen den Beste; one that doesn't take about ten thousand words to get from A to halfway through the downstroke of B.

graz 03-03-2010 07:48 PM

I'm happy to slavishly follow the request for dingalinking...
 
... But I'm not willing to concede that fosterer is good conversation.

Shorter Bob:

Quote:

I kid about the god/dingalink connection.

jimM47 03-03-2010 07:56 PM

Re: Commenter Court: The Return (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)
 
Part of this diavlog (I'll let you figure out where) reminded me of something I had been wondering. What percentage of comments are made by a small number of named commenters? -- and what percentage of those are made by the most frequent commenter? Is there technology to generate a graph or something?

TwinSwords 03-03-2010 07:57 PM

Shorter Bob
 
Shorter Bob:

Quote:

Ridiculous mischaracterization is wrong for thee, but not for me.

claymisher 03-03-2010 07:59 PM

Re: Shorter Bob
 
And who wrote this:

Quote:

I say we beat the noxious little butterball to a pulp.

Simon Willard 03-03-2010 09:33 PM

Re: Commenter Court: The Return (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)
 
The raw comment numbers are here. You can make sort of a mental histogram. There are 82,687 total posts, so he-who-shall-not-be-named has about 16% of them.

Wonderment 03-03-2010 10:06 PM

Would it be racist...?
 
...to find Bob and Aryeh reminiscent of Jack Benny and Rochester? I guess I will have to wait till the next Commenter Court to find out.

Another moral dilemma: I am concerned that Aryeh is stoned because he looks it. But I'm also concerned that I may be acting like GW Bush when he ridiculed a reporter wearing sunglasses in broad daylight, not realizing that the reporter had a degenerative eye disease.

Don Zeko 03-03-2010 10:18 PM

Re: Would it be racist...?
 
http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/263...1:20&out=31:44

The ball's in your court, Bob. I don't even have Brink's email with which to get rejected. of course, I think my dignity would survive being turned down better than it would attempting to argue with Brink Lindsay for an hour.

Ocean 03-03-2010 10:23 PM

Re: Would it be racist...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 153009)
...to find Bob and Aryeh reminiscent of Jack Benny and Rochester?

Put on your glasses, you got the light bulb! :)

Ocean 03-03-2010 10:26 PM

Re: Commenter Court: The Return (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)
 
How about "Principal's Office" instead of commenter court? It does feel like school children in trouble...

Wonderment 03-03-2010 10:29 PM

Aryeh's pet peeve
 
Aryeh's pet peeve of a commenter posting that s/he won't be watching a particular dialogue is fair enough, but Bob's characterization is misleading.

Bob claims such a comment is random and gratuitous, comparing it to "I'm not eating a ham sandwich." But of course, comments like that are simply protests against the Head chosen to represent a certain point of view. The real translation is "I have no interest in seeing X and hope you'll never put him on Bhead again." That's a legitimate point of view and posting is a legitimate means of expressing it.

propagandhi 03-03-2010 10:39 PM

Re: Commenter Court: The Return (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)
 
Don't blow the sponsorship opportunities dude! http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/263...6:55&out=27:03

graz 03-03-2010 10:43 PM

Re: Commenter Court: The Return (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 153014)
How about "Principal's Office" instead of commenter court? It does feel like school children in trouble...

To me, it feels more like the air being let out of a balloon. I think that the critiques, mild complaints and vague analysis are a buzz-kill. They need an artistic director to punch-up this concept.

If they focus on the product and increasing the talent pool, they might spend less time on the navel-gazing meta.

Aryeh 03-03-2010 10:58 PM

Re: Would it be racist...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 153009)
I am concerned that Aryeh is stoned because he looks it. But I'm also concerned that I may be acting like GW Bush when he ridiculed a reporter wearing sunglasses in broad daylight, not realizing that the reporter had a degenerative eye disease.

I can confirm that I was under no chemical enhancement while recording this diavlog--just my natural ebullience shining through! I appreciate the concern, though.

Ocean 03-03-2010 11:01 PM

Re: Would it be racist...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aryeh (Post 153020)
I can confirm that I was under no chemical enhancement while recording this diavlog--just my natural ebullience shining through! I appreciate the concern, though.

My guess is that you were under Bob's influence...

propagandhi 03-03-2010 11:02 PM

Re: Aryeh's pet peeve
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 153015)
Aryeh's pet peeve of a commenter posting that s/he won't be watching a particular dialogue is fair enough, but Bob's characterization is misleading.

Bob claims such a comment is random and gratuitous, comparing it to "I'm not eating a ham sandwich." But of course, comments like that are simply protests against the Head chosen to represent a certain point of view. The real translation is "I have no interest in seeing X and hope you'll never put him on Bhead again." That's a legitimate point of view and posting is a legitimate means of expressing it.

Good point about the problem people have with taking a lot of internet vernacular literally. The counter to your "protests against the Head" would be that obscuring your "protest" to the point of unintelligibility doesn't really make a convincing case that you aren't just being "gratuitous".

Don Zeko 03-03-2010 11:07 PM

Re: Would it be racist...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 153021)
My guess is that you were under Bob's influence...

It's worse than we thought!

AemJeff 03-03-2010 11:07 PM

Re: Aryeh's pet peeve
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by propagandhi (Post 153023)
Good point about the problem people have with taking a lot of internet vernacular literally. The counter to your "protests against the Head" would be that obscuring your "protest" to the point of unintelligibility doesn't really make a convincing case that you aren't just being "gratuitous".

I think you can be fairly certain that Bob gets the point, but was being deliberately disingenuous to make his own point. At least, that's how I heard him.

bjkeefe 03-03-2010 11:54 PM

Shorter this entire diavlog
 
Bob: I will say nothing of interest and say it at great length.
Aryeh: I dare not sass my boss.
Bob: Yes, isn't it funny how we keep being all tongue-in-cheek about me being your boss?
Aryeh: Uh, yes.
Bob: Let's do that some more! But first, let's bend over backwards worrying about the gender of some pseudonymous commenter and the pronunciation of his or her handle, because nothing could be more important that.
Aryeh: Uh, yes.
Bob: Okay, time for your big feature!
Aryeh: That one comment posted during the Coolidge Administration was pretty good.
Bob: Let's do this more often!

Lemon Sorbet 03-04-2010 02:24 AM

Re: Shorter this entire diavlog
 
What is the point of a post like this Brendan? To show off your wit and cleverness of phrasing?

If your comments, laced with unnecessary nastiness, is meant to show that Bob talked too much and took too long to get to the main points, then yes, this is all true (Bob, you really need to give more air time to Aryeh and take tips from Glenn Loury on succinctness), but is it really necessary to go out of your way to put it in a way that demeans? Maybe this is your way of being defiant in the face of criticism but the pettiness you show week after week towards those who have differng opinion is just astounding and beyond unpleasant.

As for the entire ChiWhiSox/PopcornKarate/Brendan exchange, I remember the stupidity of that very well. Accusatory, nasty, and totally unnecessary to say the least.

And yes, I realize the irony of my comments considering the subject matter, but enough already.

Wonderment 03-04-2010 02:33 AM

Re: Would it be racist...?
 
Quote:

I can confirm that I was under no chemical enhancement while recording this diavlog--just my natural ebullience shining through!
Don't worry, Aryeh. I love you stoned or straight!

Personally, I would want a lot of Novacaine to endure a weekly staff meeting with Bob to discuss the minutiae of how best to coddle the gargantuan egos of dudes like Mickey Kaus.

I take back my Jack Benny-Rochester comparison. This was more Smothers Brothers. Very subtle comic genius. There is a magical moment in there -- please forgive me for not dingalinking -- when you go completely silent on Bob when he's anticipating acknowledgment, but then he figures out that your just being there mutely is way good enough, and the whole shtick continues to flow beautifully. Hats off to both of you.

bjkeefe 03-04-2010 03:13 AM

Re: Shorter this entire diavlog
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemon Sorbet (Post 153037)
What is the point of a post like this Brendan?

To criticize in a way that amuses myself, and hopefully, a few other people, too. Sorry it's not to your taste.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemon Sorbet (Post 153037)
... the pettiness you show week after week towards those who have differng opinion is just astounding and beyond unpleasant.

First, I think you're only noticing or remembering the instances that put you off and ignoring or forgetting the cases where what I say doesn't match your complaint.

Second, I've already spoken to this at some length, so I'll just refer you there, or remind you of it, as the case may be.

Again, sorry it's not to your liking, but like the old sailor man, I yam what I yam.

Lemon Sorbet 03-04-2010 04:28 AM

Re: Shorter this entire diavlog
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 153041)
To criticize in a way that amuses myself, and hopefully, a few other people, too.

I see. Then I hope that you and others who love to see these kinds of posts have a fun time chuckling at your clever humour. But I gotta say that Bloggingheads is not your personal blog with which to amuse yourself. It's a public forum with many others who are vested in the continued success of the site and comes with it a set of implicit/explicit rules with which we communicate. Unlike TWOP (and for those who don't know what that is, you're better off), there are no draconian rules on civility, so while you are free to be as demeaning or unpleasant as you like under the guise of witty sarcasm, I also feel the need to say that beyond your small circle of friends, you probably repel a lot of others as well as many new viewers, even those who share your views. Sorry, I realize nothing I say is new to you nor will make any difference, but BH is one of only 2 or 3 websites that I truly care about and I want it to find success and an even wider audience while maintaining quality. That's not a sustainable model as inevitably quality will go down with quantity, but I don't think it needs someone lobbying grenades at it either. Whatever value you might have brought here is completely obliviated by the blazing stamp on your forehead that says jerk.

deebee 03-04-2010 06:44 AM

Re: Shorter this entire diavlog
 
I gave up commenting on Bloggingheads a long time ago, because I felt that BJ had hijacked the section and I grew weary of his personal attacks and unfounded accusations.

I imagine that he will wear this as a badge of honor but I agree that it may be harming a stellar and unique website.

bjkeefe 03-04-2010 10:16 AM

The Munroe Doctrine
 
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2...htvariatio.png

conncarroll 03-04-2010 11:50 AM

Re: Commenter Court: The Return (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)
 
I'm admittedly pretty far down on the bheads FrontPage food chain, but I'd be down to diavlog with an Apollonian.

graz 03-04-2010 11:57 AM

Re: Commenter Court: The Return (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by conncarroll (Post 153053)
I'm admittedly pretty far down on the bheads FrontPage food chain, but I'd be down to diavlog with an Apollonian.

VS.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zeko (Post 153030)
This was a neat discussion and all, but I'm totally still interested in doing a DV about US institutional reform. Still no takers?


graz 03-04-2010 12:26 PM

Re: Shorter this entire diavlog
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemon Sorbet (Post 153046)
But I gotta say that Bloggingheads is... a public forum with many others who are vested in the continued success of the site and comes with it a set of implicit/explicit rules with which we communicate.

And we shall dub it:
The Lemon Law.

And as it is a free and public site, continue to steer it any way you choose. And as a proxy, to speak for others as well. But don't assume that your opinion is shared by all, or appreciated specifically. Your pissy and moralizing post gives short shrift to the value that the "said poster" offers. I don't share his sentiment of sorrow for your distaste. Too bad for you and however many others feel the same.

But I'm happy for your right to post it!

nikkibong 03-04-2010 12:52 PM

Re: Shorter this entire diavlog
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 153041)
To criticize in a way that amuses myself, and hopefully, a few other people, too.

success on that count!

i chuckled.

AemJeff 03-04-2010 12:56 PM

Re: Shorter this entire diavlog
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nikkibong (Post 153060)
success on that count!

i chuckled.

Yeah. Me, too.

graz 03-04-2010 01:01 PM

Re: Shorter this entire diavlog
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nikkibong (Post 153060)
success on that count!

i chuckled.

Chuckled?

uncle ebeneezer 03-04-2010 01:09 PM

Re: Shorter this entire diavlog
 
One commenter's dream of the future of the bhtv forum!!

uncle ebeneezer 03-04-2010 01:12 PM

Re: Shorter this entire diavlog
 
Longer Graz/Joe/Scorsese

propagandhi 03-04-2010 01:14 PM

Re: Commenter Court: The Return (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)
 
It is weird that people overlook the fact that BHTV is a pretty limited audience. It's not like Bob is going on youtube and trying to speak to the whole world with these diavlogs, he is addressing the relatively small population of people who are on bloggingheads. Being that this is a mostly intellectual crowd, I think it is cool that he is going out of his way to logically look at all the points people make, and to bring a staff member on to share in the glory. It's not like he is trying to pretend that he has a million youtubers watching all these videos. We should all be more appreciative.

bjkeefe 03-04-2010 01:20 PM

Re: Commenter Court: The Return (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by conncarroll (Post 153053)
I'm admittedly pretty far down on the bheads FrontPage food chain, but I'd be down to diavlog with an Apollonian.

Shoutout to Conn!

Or maybe ... Connionysian?

Also: you are at the top of the food chain as far as I'm concerned, our lack of shared views notwithstanding.

bjkeefe 03-04-2010 01:24 PM

Re: Commenter Court: The Return (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by propagandhi (Post 153067)
It is weird that people overlook the fact that BHTV is a pretty limited audience. [...] We should all be more appreciative.

Mmmm ... maybe. But it seems at least as reasonable, then, to say he should know his audience better, and I think I can safely say most of us would like these things to have more zazzle.

basman 03-04-2010 01:34 PM

Re: Commenter Court: The Return (Robert Wright & Aryeh Cohen-Wade)
 
Three points:

1. Why doesn't Robert Wright himself have an exchange with people here if there are no other takers besides Con Carroll after Con Carroll does one?

2. I don't mind, most of the time, that Wright --the voice of Sheldon on Big Bang--talks a lot (he's engaging); and it's good that he does in an exchange meant to comment on and judge--"court"-- the commenters and their comments. He is in effect the the royalty of this court.

3. On the Sullivan Wieseltier thing, I guess I'm one of the few who think Wieseltier took Sullivan's measure. I hold, not entirely confidently, but still on balance hold, that Wieseltier did not in his first post setting off this round of controversy call Sullivan an anti Semite. Most people think he did. Wieseltier in his response to Sullivan says he didn't. But the proof's in the reading of the pudding of his first post. I think textually it's hard to make a case for the outright calling of Sullivan as an anti Semite. I'd like to see it made.

Itzik Basman (not to be confused with Itzik Basman)

look 03-04-2010 01:44 PM

Title suggestion
 
'Commenting'


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