Bloggingheads Community

Bloggingheads Community (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/index.php)
-   Diavlog comments (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9)
-   -   The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis) (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=7203)

Bloggingheads 12-02-2011 02:46 PM

The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 

chamblee54 12-02-2011 03:09 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
What happened to Mr. Lewis's sound? This is going to be tough to listen to.
chamblee54

sugarkang 12-02-2011 03:13 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Listening to Adam's rant now. It's not just envy, but yeah. Adam just reiterates a lot of my own points for the last 6 months, only more entertaining.

David Edenden 12-02-2011 03:32 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Next flavor of the month: Jon Huntsman?

Why doesn't Jon Huntsman tour with Gary Johnson in Iowa and New Hampshire debating. The sheer novelty will generate interest, attendence and later coverage.

Discuss next week.

David Edenden 12-02-2011 03:49 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Smart Newt?

Paul Krugman:

"A stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like"

Discuss!

miceelf 12-02-2011 04:20 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Edenden (Post 233248)

I have always maintained that Newt Gingrich is what happens if you take Barney Frank and bang him repeatedly on the head with something moderately heavy, making sure to do, among other things, some frontal lobe damage.

Sulla the Dictator 12-02-2011 04:32 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miceelf (Post 233253)
I have always maintained that Newt Gingrich is what happens if you take Barney Frank and bang him repeatedly on the head with something moderately heavy, making sure to do, among other things, some frontal lobe damage.

Gingrich is the perfect example of how the left doesn't believe one can simultaneously be intelligent and Conservative. He is obviously intelligent. Paul Krugman denying that is a pathological deal.

Indeed, it casts a shadow over the intelligence of people who say it. It is lazy; a means of avoiding defense of positions by calling the opposition "stupid", over and over. One wonders if they don't want to defend their position, or if at this point with the degeneration of the actual intelligentsia, if they can anymore.

miceelf 12-02-2011 04:50 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator (Post 233256)
Indeed, it casts a shadow over the intelligence of people who say it. It is lazy; a means of avoiding defense of positions by calling the opposition "stupid", over and over. One wonders if they don't want to defend their position, or if at this point with the degeneration of the actual intelligentsia, if they can anymore.

I didn't say "stupid". I think Gingrich is smarter than the average person.I just think there's a whole lot of space between where he is and where some people (including him) think he is. There's also a lot of space between him and genuinely exceptional people. If one spends a lot of time listening to, interacting with and/or reading, really smart people, Gingrich doesn't seem to be any great shakes.

I think my Frank comparison holds up. He's your version of Frank, except not as smart and or self-controlled.

Sulla the Dictator 12-02-2011 05:01 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miceelf (Post 233259)
I didn't say "stupid". I think Gingrich is smarter than the average person.I just think there's a whole lot of space between where he is and where some people (including him) think he is. There's also a lot of space between him and genuinely exceptional people. If one spends a lot of time listening to, interacting with and/or reading, really smart people, Gingrich doesn't seem to be any great shakes.

I think Gingrich is smarter than the average politician. I certainly think he is more intelligent than the President. Intelligence should be measured first, and foremost, by one's mastery of the trivium and the quadrivium. Then we can talk about who is better in the weeds of policy, gender studies, or Star Trek ethics.

Now, would anyone disagree with this?

Quote:

I think my Frank comparison holds up. He's your version of Frank, except not as smart and or self-controlled.
I don't think your version of Frank is all that smart, rather than being simply clever on television. I find Frank's personal history to be worse than Gingrich's by far, and certainly indicative of a lack of wisdom. He also has absolutely no self control. His retirement has brought forth a raft of stories about how he is a pretty abusive, petulant person to his staff and journalists. He also seems like a bottom feeder when it comes to his relationships with other homosexuals. At least Gingrich's wives seem like decent people.

Wonderment 12-02-2011 05:09 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Newt certainly looks smart when he's up on the stage with Rick Perry, Santorum and Cain. His problem is not IQ; it's his sleazy character, extensive rap sheet and extremely obnoxious personality. I am thrilled that he's making a move. This is the best thing that happened for liberals since Perry surged. Obama will wipe the floor with Newt. I worry about Romney, but Newt is a gift from god.

Sulla the Dictator 12-02-2011 05:30 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 233263)
Newt certainly looks smart when he's up on the stage with Rick Perry, Santorum and Cain. His problem is not IQ; it's his sleazy character, extensive rap sheet and extremely obnoxious personality. I am thrilled that he's making a move. This is the best thing that happened for liberals since Perry surged. Obama will wipe the floor with Newt. I worry about Romney, but Newt is a gift from god.

No, Romney is going to win. No other candidate except Perry has even bothered to put together real organization in Iowa and New Hampshire.

It's just that he doesn't deserve to win. The establishment is to be damned for leaving the party with "Romney or nothing". You're right to be worried; our version of Kerry will do a lot better than yours.

And its a damned shame.

miceelf 12-02-2011 06:21 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator (Post 233261)
I think Gingrich is smarter than the average politician. I certainly think he is more intelligent than the President. Intelligence should be measured first, and foremost, by one's mastery of the trivium and the quadrivium.

Are you really claiming that Gingrich is better at music and geometry than is Obama???


Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator (Post 233261)
I don't think your version of Frank is all that smart, rather than being simply clever on television. I find Frank's personal history to be worse than Gingrich's by far, and certainly indicative of a lack of wisdom. He also has absolutely no self control....At least Gingrich's wives seem like decent people.

Having long term committed relationships with people you don't like is more indicative of a lack of self control than is repeatedly and consistently cheating on spouses you consider to be decent people, having publically promised God and society that one wouldn't, in fact, cheat on said decent people?

TwinSwords 12-02-2011 06:50 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarkang (Post 233243)
Listening to Adam's rant now. It's not just envy, but yeah. Adam just reiterates a lot of my own points for the last 6 months, only more entertaining.

Your self-regard knows no limits. Have you ever noticed how much you talk about yourself? How much praise you heap upon yourself? Kind of weird.

TwinSwords 12-02-2011 06:53 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Edenden (Post 233246)
Next flavor of the month: Jon Huntsman?

Oh, hell no. He doesn't have that killer instinct that the GOP base craves. He doesn't appear to hate anyone, he doesn't appear to relish violence and authoritarianism. He doesn't satisfy the wingnuts' punitive itch. He'll never do.

TwinSwords 12-02-2011 07:02 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miceelf (Post 233253)
I have always maintained that Newt Gingrich is what happens if you take Barney Frank and bang him repeatedly on the head with something moderately heavy, making sure to do, among other things, some frontal lobe damage.

ROFL!

(I do love Barney Frank, but that was funny. :-D)

Sulla the Dictator 12-02-2011 07:07 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miceelf (Post 233273)
Are you really claiming that Gingrich is better at music and geometry than is Obama???

Maybe not music. Probably geometry. The difference in their educational attainment is substantial. And that is all that matters, according to the Party of Appeal to Authority.

Quote:

Having long term committed relationships with people you don't like is more indicative of a lack of self control than is repeatedly and consistently cheating on spouses you consider to be decent people, having publically promised God and society that one wouldn't, in fact, cheat on said decent people?
Interesting framing. Having a long term affair with a gay pimp, and a representative of Countrywide who most likely was lobbying you for influence, shows a remarkable lack of self control and wisdom. Since he could have no real formal contract, it is impossible for him to "cheat" in the way Gingrich did.

apple 12-02-2011 07:16 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 233277)
Oh, hell no. He doesn't have that killer instinct that the GOP base craves. He doesn't appear to hate anyone, he doesn't appear to relish violence and authoritarianism. He doesn't satisfy the wingnuts' punitive itch. He'll never do.

I look forward to Jon Huntsman getting the nomination, if only to see TwinSwords flip-flop on all these points.

graz 12-02-2011 07:17 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 233276)
Your self-regard knows no limits. Have you ever noticed how much you talk about yourself? How much praise you heap upon yourself? Kind of weird.

Whatcha talkin bout? You mean like this?:
Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarkang (Post 224892)
Props to Dan for articulating my position on the failure of monogamy. Am I the only commenter to hold this view?

Twin, obviously sugar is alone in assessing monogamy as problematic.
Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarkang (Post 224769)
I wish people would spend time trying to fix the source of the problems, but as far as I know, I'm the only one interested in that.

His uniqueness knows no bounds.

P.S. I hope he doesn't mistake this mockery for disdain. It's always a treat to see him toot his own horn.

David Edenden 12-02-2011 07:20 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 233263)
Newt certainly looks smart when he's up on the stage with Rick Perry, Santorum and Cain. His problem is not IQ; it's his sleazy character, extensive rap sheet and extremely obnoxious personality. I am thrilled that he's making a move. This is the best thing that happened for liberals since Perry surged. Obama will wipe the floor with Newt. I worry about Romney, but Newt is a gift from god.

Newt Gingrich is a loud mouth, smarty pants know it all. I don't like to make predictions ... especially about the future ... but he is going to flame out!

TwinSwords 12-02-2011 07:24 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by apple (Post 233285)
I look forward to Jon Huntsman getting the nomination, if only to see TwinSwords flip-flop on all these points.

The GOP base wants red meat; they want a leader who regularly talks about stickin' it to the libz, making them feel pain, defeating them utterly, and making them feel the humiliation of their defeat. That's what gets the GOP base motivated. Huntsman has never catered to this element of his party, so he's stuck at 2.4%.

It is theoretically possible that things could change at some point in the future. These characteristics are not inherently tied to conservatism. But they are tied to the current incarnation of conservatism -- and the incarnation that has prevailed in the US since at least 1992, though you could make a case that these toxic political attitudes go back to Nixon, or to the white Southerners who tried to block intergration and had to be backed down by the 101st Airborne, or, ultimately, by your intellectual and cultural ancestors in the Confederacy.

So, whatever potential there is for sane conservatism, at least for now the party is modeled on Fox News, which was modeled on Rush Limbaugh. That is, it's modeled on authoritarianism, and hate, plus the basic belief that liberals are the enemy who are responsible for all the problems in the world, and whose defeat is the most important national purpose.

TwinSwords 12-02-2011 07:31 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graz (Post 233286)
Whatcha talkin bout? You mean like this?:

Twin, obviously sugar is alone in assessing monogamy as problematic.

His uniqueness knows no bounds.

P.S. I hope he doesn't mistake this mockery for disdain. It's always a treat to see him toot his own horn.

It's funny, isn't it?

apple 12-02-2011 07:34 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 233288)
The GOP base wants red meat; they want a leader who regularly talks about stickin' it to the libz, making them feel pain, defeating them utterly, and making them feel the humiliation of their defeat. That's what gets the GOP base motivated. Huntsman has never catered to this element of his party, so he's stuck at 2.4%.

Huntsman is much more conservative than Bush - who was never that conservative to begin with. Bush also wasn't very partisan (same as Obama). You still hate his guts, and most conservatives (for whatever reason) like Bush, even though his big spending and tax cuts are to blame for the size of the deficit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 233288)
the incarnation that has prevailed in the US since at least 1992, though you could make a case that these toxic political attitudes go back to Nixon, or to the white Southerners who tried to block intergration and had to be backed down by the 101st Airborne, or, ultimately, by your intellectual and cultural ancestors in the Confederacy.

Not mine, if that's what you meant, I am not a conservative.

miceelf 12-02-2011 07:55 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 233278)
ROFL!

(I do love Barney Frank, but that was funny. :-D)

I should clarify that I also am a big fan of Barney Frank, and I am not at all recommending that anyone assault him with a blunt object. The world doesn't need another Newt Gingrich. The divorce rate is high enough as it is.

uncle ebeneezer 12-02-2011 07:57 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Bob, you can close this thread as Micelf just won it.

Robert Wright 12-02-2011 08:22 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer (Post 233298)
Bob, you can close this thread as Micelf just won it.

Only Brenda is vested with the awesome power to close a thread.

Ocean 12-02-2011 08:38 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Wright (Post 233301)
Only Brenda is vested with the awesome power to close a thread.

Wooo... Bob! You're going to scare us jumping in the thread and mingling like that.

Just kidding. Hey, it's great you decided to descend from Mount Olympus. Welcome to this side of tracks!

uncle ebeneezer 12-02-2011 08:50 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Only Brenda is vested with the awesome power to close a thread.
Hallowed be her name!

harkin 12-02-2011 09:37 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miceelf (Post 233273)
Are you really claiming that Gingrich is better at music and geometry than is Obama???

Mr "57 States" should tackle arithmetic before he goes on to the (for him) heavy stuff.

After that, he can go after "corpsman" and geography (hawaii as part of asia and the "english embassy").

Don't like Gingrich at all. The fact that he would be much better than the Bystander-In-Chief shouldn't stop the republicans from coming up with a better nominee.

miceelf 12-02-2011 10:04 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harkin (Post 233313)
After that, he can go after "corpsman" and geography (hawaii as part of asia and the "english embassy").

If you don't think music and geometry are adequate tests of intelligence, take it up with Sulla.

badhatharry 12-02-2011 10:58 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miceelf (Post 233273)
Having long term committed relationships with people you don't like is more indicative of a lack of self control than is repeatedly and consistently cheating on spouses you consider to be decent people, having publically promised God and society that one wouldn't, in fact, cheat on said decent people?

What does this even mean?

badhatharry 12-02-2011 11:12 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miceelf (Post 233259)
There's also a lot of space between him and genuinely exceptional people.

Genuinely exceptional people don't make it very far in politics, usually and especially in this day and age.

Here's a nice little story about your man, Barney Frank. Now that's exceptional!

badhatharry 12-02-2011 11:32 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulla the Dictator (Post 233264)

It's just that he doesn't deserve to win. The establishment is to be damned for leaving the party with "Romney or nothing".
And its a damned shame.

If you were in charge who would be running?

Quote:

You're right to be worried; our version of Kerry will do a lot better than yours.
translation please

miceelf 12-03-2011 12:23 AM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 233319)
What does this even mean?

Sulla claims that Gingrich has more self control than does Barney Frank.

His evidence for this is two-fold:

1. Frank has long-term committed relationships with people that Sulla doesn't approve of.

2. Gingrich has been married to (and, Sulla doesn't say this, but it's a fact and relevant to the self-control issue) and cheated on several women who are also decent people. (Sulla also didn't point out that in cheating, Gingrich violated the public vows he made to his wives and his God).

I don't see how 2 demonstrates more self-control than 1. Indeed, it would seem that if the decency of Gingrich's wives is relevant at all, it would mitigate against, rather than for, the proposition that Gingrich has a great deal of self control. As to their decency, I can't say, but the last two wives were willing to sleep with a married man.

basman 12-03-2011 02:05 AM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 233263)
...Obama will wipe the floor with Newt..

What are you, 12?

And I heard similar bull shit about how Gore was going to wipe the floor with Bush.

I'd worry plenty whether either Romney or Gingrich gets the nod. As the cliche has it, if the economy be bad come voting day Obama has gehackteh tzores. Both Gingrich and Romey are formidable, unlike most of the rest of the Republicans clowns out there vying, Huntsman to the contrary notwithstanding and with no chance to win anything.

It's delusional to underestimate Gingrich.

Itzik Basman

Parallax 12-03-2011 04:58 AM

Carolla's rant was great!
 
Just wanted to thank Matt for mentioning his rant. For 10 minutes Carolla goes after OWS crowd in a fit of anger reminiscent of Lewis Black or the late George Carlin.

David Edenden 12-03-2011 09:09 AM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Bill and Matt, I need your ruling. Is the following ... a liberal or conservative argument for gay marriage.

"Everyone needs a spouse, because you can't blame everything on the government".

Discuss!

badhatharry 12-03-2011 10:03 AM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by basman (Post 233327)
What are you, 12?

And I heard similar bull shit about how Gore was going to wipe the floor with Bush.

I'd worry plenty whether either Romney or Gingrich gets the nod. As the cliche has it, if the economy be bad come voting day Obama has gehackteh tzores. Both Gingrich and Romey are formidable, unlike most of the rest of the Republicans clowns out there vying, Huntsman to the contrary notwithstanding and with no chance to win anything.

It's delusional to underestimate Gingrich.

Itzik Basman

What have you done with Itzik Basman??????

badhatharry 12-03-2011 10:08 AM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miceelf (Post 233325)
Sulla claims that Gingrich has more self control than does Barney Frank.

His evidence for this is two-fold:

1. Frank has long-term committed relationships with people that Sulla doesn't approve of.

2. Gingrich has been married to (and, Sulla doesn't say this, but it's a fact and relevant to the self-control issue) and cheated on several women who are also decent people. (Sulla also didn't point out that in cheating, Gingrich violated the public vows he made to his wives and his God).

I don't see how 2 demonstrates more self-control than 1. Indeed, it would seem that if the decency of Gingrich's wives is relevant at all, it would mitigate against, rather than for, the proposition that Gingrich has a great deal of self control. As to their decency, I can't say, but the last two wives were willing to sleep with a married man.

Well it was unclear at any speed. In the first line it is not at all determined that the "people you don't like" means people Sulla doesn't like.

I also think the "long term committed relationships with people" instead of "person" is a little odd but I guess in this age it's par for the course.

AemJeff 12-03-2011 11:12 AM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by basman (Post 233327)
What are you, 12?

And I heard similar bull shit about how Gore was going to wipe the floor with Bush.

I'd worry plenty whether either Romney or Gingrich gets the nod. As the cliche has it, if the economy be bad come voting day Obama has gehackteh tzores. Both Gingrich and Romey are formidable, unlike most of the rest of the Republicans clowns out there vying, Huntsman to the contrary notwithstanding and with no chance to win anything.

It's delusional to underestimate Gingrich.

Itzik Basman

I think it's quite possible to overestimate Newt on a national platform. His electoral successes have all been accomplished in extremely limited, homogeneous contexts - that is, in a single Congressional district in suburban Altalnta with a well understood demographic and predictable political characteristics, and among House Republicans (who eventually turned on him.) If you read the user comments at a site like NRO (one way to sample the transient political breezes, I think), he's pretty controversial even among the Republican base. There's quite a bit in his extensive, well documented political career waiting to be exploited by his opponents on both sides; and up until now he hasn't seemed like a factor to to worry about in the current political season, so most of that is still waiting for someone to choose to exploit it. He's smart and savvy, but he also has obviously self-destructive tendencies and pattern of overreach.

We'll see.

miceelf 12-03-2011 03:38 PM

Re: The Week in Blog: Politics of Cool (Bill Scher & Matt K. Lewis)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 233335)
I also think the "long term committed relationships with people" instead of "person" is a little odd but I guess in this age it's par for the course.


Yeah, true. I just think that serial monogamy, whatever problems it may entail, is probably better than serial cheating relationships.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:34 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.