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-   -   Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson) (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=4015)

Bloggingheads 09-22-2009 06:41 PM

Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
The "View Diavlog" link doesn't work yet in the Apollo forum. Here's the correct link.

graz 09-22-2009 07:25 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Are these two on a date, and through the power of new technology we're eavesdropping?

Was I also having a flashback or was the psychedelic effect (voice as well as vision) purposeful?

Are these the bhtv junior league tryouts? McArdle does no better in transmitting her personal anecdotes.

Where is the conflict? On what subject are they disagreeing? No offense, but who cares?

kidneystones 09-22-2009 07:26 PM

Wow!
 
Congratulations to bong and preppy!

Ethan seems much sharper and more focused on camera than he does in his comments. Preppy also impressed.

As an Apollo skeptic, I'm pleasantly surprised. Thanks to both and to bhtv for the innovative addition to the viewing menu.

nikkibong 09-22-2009 07:30 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graz (Post 130758)
Are these two on a date, and through the power of new technology we're eavesdropping?

Was I also having a flashback or was the psychedelic effect (voice as well as vision) purposeful?

Are these the bhtv junior league tryouts? McArdle does no better in transmitting her personal anecdotes.

Where is the conflict? On what subject are they disagreeing? No offense, but who cares?

graz, did you watch the diavlog? For the first 15 minutes we talked about the media biz at large. Then, we switched to a brief, and yes, McArdle-esque description of our own attempts at entering the 'biz.'

We didn't feel compelled to disagree about anything; it was more of the expository style.

Of course, you and I could continue this discussion via diavlog... :)

Thanks for watching.

Ocean 09-22-2009 07:43 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
OMG!!!! Nikki!!!! Is this true???

Now, seriously, this was great!

Don't listen to graz. He's just envious because of the great job the two of you did. ;)

Congrats!

graz 09-22-2009 07:46 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
I love you anyhow. And I'm glad you satisfied your desire for face time.
I'll continue to read all your writing - comments or published works.
But Apollo auditions and self-promotions... not so much.

Which is less a reflection on you and more a criticism of bhtv. Hey wait, you're right, the first fifteen minutes are no different than many of the dv's on the main page. And they didn't even have to pay you. You go!

Ocean 09-22-2009 07:49 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graz (Post 130758)
Are these two on a date,

Perhaps.

Quote:

and through the power of new technology we're eavesdropping?
Wishful thinking.

Quote:

Was I also having a flashback
Most likely.


Quote:

or was the psychedelic effect (voice as well as vision) purposeful?
It's your imagination.

Quote:

Are these the bhtv junior league tryouts?
You can think of it that way.

Quote:

McArdle does no better in transmitting her personal anecdotes.
I agree.

Quote:

Where is the conflict? On what subject are they disagreeing?
Are you against peaceful harmony?

Quote:

No offense, but who cares?
I do. Aren't you proud of our friends?

OK. Don't answer that last question...

graz 09-22-2009 08:07 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Thanks for your support Doc (offical bhtv Apollo project defender).
Although it seems less than professional for you to suggest that my man nikki not listen.:)

TwinSwords 09-22-2009 08:12 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Hey, this is great!

Nikki & Preppy,
Congratulations to you both for your fine performances and for being the first diavloggers to launch this new feature. I look forward to seeing you both back in the future.

kidneystones 09-22-2009 08:15 PM

Aspiring Journalists/Political Performance Art
 
Okay. Now to the topic. Preppy likely made the right choice to go to J-school. There are a lot of good programs and they do teach people how to write.

Ethan and Preppy both moan from the same song-book; so there's something to the complaint about a lack of conflict. James O' Keefe and Hannah Giles demonstrate precisely how to break a story. Their efforts point the way forward.

Crap commentary on the events of the day can be found at bhtv and just about every other for free outlet on the internet. Really moving stories about real people; stories that move us to either outrage or sympathy make careers.

Every accomplished artist or writer I know (and I know lots) works their media. The choice is simple: work as an independent and starve; or work for a commercial outfit providing content or services and eat better. Either route, hard work and imagination are required to deliver the goods. My guess is James and Hannah trudged into a lot of offices before they got the footage they wanted.

Lace up them boots and go find your stories.

Best of luck!

osmium 09-22-2009 08:16 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Wow, fantastic. Big ups, nikkibong and preppymc.

AemJeff 09-22-2009 08:18 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 130770)
Hey, this is great!

Nikki & Preppy,
Congratulations to you both for your fine performances and for being the first diavloggers to launch this new feature. I look forward to seeing you both back in the future.

I agree with Twin. Well done. And I don't see anything wrong with a little self-promotion, as long as it's done with a bit of grace.

TwinSwords 09-22-2009 08:21 PM

Re: Aspiring Journalists/Political Performance Art
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kidneystones (Post 130772)
Crap commentary on the events of the day can be found at bhtv

Well, no one can say you lack for self-awareness!

look 09-22-2009 08:36 PM

Nicely done, Nikki and Preppy
 
Congrats on your on-camera aplomb.

kidneystones 09-22-2009 09:30 PM

James and Hannah and bong and preppy
 
Wapo details the methodical work of James and Hannah. Maybe bong and preppy can collaborate on a follow-up piece.

What's the bet there are Acorn employess willing to blame the entire nightmare on Fox news and Glenn Beck?

Go git'em.

TwinSwords 09-22-2009 09:31 PM

Preppy's blog
 
Unfortunately, the link to Preppy's blog on the diavlog page is broken, but if you are interested, you can access it here:

http://instantcappuccino.blogspot.com

AemJeff 09-22-2009 09:33 PM

Re: James and Hannah and bong and preppy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kidneystones (Post 130780)
Wapo details the methodical work of James and Hannah. Maybe bong and preppy can collaborate on a follow-up piece.

What's the bet there are Acorn employess willing to blame the entire nightmare on Fox news and Glenn Beck?

Go git'em.

What were the odds that kidney would find a non-sequitur tying together this diavlog and one or more of his obsessions?

graz 09-22-2009 09:39 PM

Re: James and Hannah and bong and preppy
 
But Jeff, dontcha see that it's in service to the career building of the bong and preppy? He comments because he cares.

TwinSwords 09-22-2009 09:57 PM

Re: James and Hannah and bong and preppy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graz (Post 130783)
But Jeff, dontcha see that it's in service to the career building of the bong and preppy? He comments because he cares.

ROFL.

I suppose if Nikki and Preppy want to become activists in the cause of ultraconservative extremism, kidney might have a point. Hard work and determination are not what made O'Keefe and Giles the talk of the wingnutosphere. It was their service to the agenda of the far right that did that.

kidneystones 09-22-2009 10:22 PM

Dopes
 
graz writes...

I don't. Ethan had a paying gig in Shanghai where he could have done any number of other projects while getting paid to hone his craft. Instead, he couldn't manage his temper and quit.

Preppy invested in a j-school degree and can't get work. She's going to need to learn a lot more about political performance art; or get a job churning out crap like ninety-nine percent of paid writers.

Poor befuddled Jeff evidently can't discover any connection between a twenty-minute discussion on the state of journalism today and the O' Keefe/Giles story.

Sweet Jesus, James and Hannah are all-over the networks and the front-pages, right where nikki and preppy don't want to be.

AemJeff 09-22-2009 10:26 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Seriously, except for the length and the ersatz psychedelica, this was essentially indistinguishable from any other wonky journalist face-to-face hosted by this site. I doubt that Apollo could have had a better debut.

(I know I commented earlier, but connection problems had been in the way of watching all of it at once.)

PreppyMcPrepperson 09-22-2009 10:29 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graz (Post 130758)
Are these two on a date, and through the power of new technology we're eavesdropping?

Well, I never got my free dinner...so I'm not sure it counts ;)

To the point about our agreeing too much, I promise to bring Althouse levels of contrarianism-for-its-own-sake next time.

Thanks for the heads-up about the blog link TwinSwords--I've asked the authorities to fix.

Also: One thought I had after we hung up was that we finished by saying how short the amateur time limit is, but actually when BHTV first got going, the Bob and Mickey 'vlogs were just as short.

AemJeff 09-22-2009 10:43 PM

Re: Dopes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kidneystones (Post 130785)
graz writes...

I don't. Ethan had a paying gig in Shanghai where he could have done any number of other projects while getting paid to hone his craft. Instead, he couldn't manage his temper and quit.

Preppy invested in a j-school degree and can't get work. She's going to need to learn a lot more about political performance art; or get a job churning out crap like ninety-nine percent of paid writers.

Poor befuddled Jeff evidently can't discover any connection between a twenty-minute discussion on the state of journalism today and the O' Keefe/Giles story.

Sweet Jesus, James and Hannah are all-over the networks and the front-pages, right where nikki and preppy don't want to be.

Duh, what?

graz 09-22-2009 10:45 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Great job by the way. Jeff just made the point that your chat was worthy of the front page... without the distracting imagery.

My disappointment is that the original point of the dueling commenters (Apollo) on video was going to be a new and different feature. You and Ethan offered a seamless presentation that deserves promotion to the big leagues. But it was not unlike the format of "regular" dv's.

http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=2825
Quote:

04-01-2009, 11:15 AM
nikkibong

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Shanghai & Portland, OR
Posts: 746
Re: Apollo Project
Quote:
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 108710)
If you have not yet watched Bob and Mickey's latest diavlog and don't know what the Apollo Project is, you can hear Bob describe it at this dingalink.

Personally, I think it's a great idea, and I hope at least a few of BHTV's commenters take Bob up on the offer. My concern is that forum dwellers tend to be introverts not exactly the kind of person who is itching to appear before the world on camera.

The success of the Apollo Project depends, I think, on finding those (few?) commenters who are at the more extroverted end of the personality spectrum. Hopefully BHTV's forum is atypical and has a higher than usual proportion of extroverted commenters, because there are a lot of people here who have great minds, excellent insight, and many interesting things to say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikkibong (Post 108753)
As a guy who is occasionally prone to bouts of loud-mouthery, showmanship, acting, and - ok, I'll admit it - karaoke, I'm not sure that I agree with this characterization. Just because some people enjoy expressing themselves in online forums does not mean they don't like to express themselves elsewhere.

My concern with the Apollo Project is with its rather elitist attitude; pitting 'true' bloggingheads against 'amateurs.' I dare say many of our commenters offer more expertise on a wider range of subjects than many of the prolific 'heads . . .

It's long been a dream of mine to appear on bh.tv, but not as a lowly, amateur commenter . . .



kidneystones 09-22-2009 10:46 PM

Maha's work
 
I read Maha's piece in the Columbia journal. Maha, I like you're writing. Your blog could use some work. You'll doubtless be reviled by Acorn's tiny minions, here, for even reading this critique, but here's my two cents:

I love your blogname and your voice, both in print and on camera. You're writing is generally concise and clear. On camera you appear smart and pretty: two pluses, masking notwithstanding.

Blog revision. You're showing early Greenwald when you should be thinking current Sullivan and TPM. The font is way too small for that color scheme. Move to white for a text background and cut about eighty percent of the readable text. Talkleft buries every single post beneath a There's more barrier, forcing all readers to click, including repeat visitors. Sullivan and Marshall both employ the same strategy.

InstantCappucino needs a higher profile and an snappy logo of some sort. Wonkette worked early with a cartoon image. You can, too. Add images, either your own or from you-tube links. Compartmentalize your page to make it much more like a magazine than a blog. You've got a lot to say. Limit the available choices to: (eg) media, politics, the left. the right and focus our attention on these choices using images and teasers.

Invite collaborators and guest posters. Travel, if the opportunity presents itself. You'll see yourself and your world far more clearly, IMHO, through the prism of other cultures.

I've actually stumbled on your blog before, although I can't honestly recall when. The name stuck and that's great. Please take the critique in good faith. If you haven't read McCluhan, give him a try. Or a re-read. He's got useful things to say about 'hot' and 'cold' media.

Best of luck!

uncle ebeneezer 09-22-2009 10:50 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Hey guys, just want to applaud the fine work in this experimental new project. I enjoyed it. The audio was stuttering a bit when I watched but I'm not sure if this was just a technical glitch.

PM- one Althouse on bhTv is already one too many. Keep being yourselves.

PS love the purple!!

Simon Willard 09-22-2009 10:54 PM

Asking about Masking
 
OK, I'm really confused about this masking thing. To quote BHtv:
Quote:

Note how our fancy masking technology lets them maintain some semblance of the anonymity that these names have long conferred.
What kind of anonymity is there when these diavloggers state their real name and location, either on the BH site or through their posted links? What's the real reason for the masking?

Don't get me wrong -- I admire their courage for coming on. (I would wear a sack over my head to do it.) But if your anonymity is blown, why not show your face?

It occurred to me that maybe BHtv doesn't want commenters to share the same stage used by "real" people, like, say, Pinkercorn. But it seems to me that burying the commenter diavlogs in a corner of the site addresses this concern.

Or perhaps BHtv can't afford to send out the same team of make-up artists who prepare Bob and Mickey for prime time.

Whatfur 09-22-2009 11:01 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Bong was smokin. (Korean nickname...ha...good one. ;o) )

Preppy rolled!

Nicely Done!

PreppyMcPrepperson 09-22-2009 11:03 PM

Re: James and Hannah and bong and preppy
 
Ethan, if we collaborate on any stories, I insist on the byline PreppyBong.

AemJeff 09-22-2009 11:04 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Willard (Post 130795)
OK, I'm really confused about this masking thing. To quote BHtv:

What kind of anonymity is there when these diavloggers state their real name and location, either on the BH site or through their posted links? What's the real reason for the masking?

Don't get me wrong -- I admire their courage for coming on. (I would wear a sack over my head to do it.) But if your anonymity is blown, why not show your face?

It occurred to me that maybe BHtv doesn't want commenters to share the same stage used by "real" people, like, say, Pinkercorn. But it seems to me that burying the commenter diavlogs in a corner of the site addresses this concern.

Or perhaps BHtv can't afford to send out the same team of make-up artists who prepare Bob and Mickey for prime time.

I imagine that not everybody wants to show their face clearly. If you choose use your real name, that's on you, I think. Some commenters use their real names as handles. I think it might be an issue, if some participants are presented clearly, and others aren't. Certainly it's true that that might appear to be the case. So, if BhTV wants to be as inclusive as possible and wants to make good faith effort to be fair, this seems (to me, anyway) like a reasonable policy, at least to begin with.

PreppyMcPrepperson 09-22-2009 11:08 PM

Re: Maha's work
 
Thanks, Kidney. All good advice, and actually linked to the one professionally-useful thing I did learn in J-School, which was how to set up a legit writer's website. Somehow, in my zealous summer of sending out pitch letters for freelance articles, I never got around to setting one up, but it's on the agenda and will, with any luck, look something like what you describe.

PreppyMcPrepperson 09-22-2009 11:18 PM

Re: Preppy's blog
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 130781)
Unfortunately, the link to Preppy's blog on the diavlog page is broken, but if you are interested, you can access it here:

http://instantcappuccino.blogspot.com

Link is fixed now.

TwinSwords 09-22-2009 11:23 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PreppyMcPrepperson (Post 130788)
Also: One thought I had after we hung up was that we finished by saying how short the amateur time limit is, but actually when BHTV first got going, the Bob and Mickey 'vlogs were just as short.

True. Good point. I've always been a fan of the longer diavlogs; if a diavlog is worth listening to it the first place, it doesn't bother me if it goes for 60-80 minutes. It almost felt to me like you and Nikki were just getting rolling when the time ran out. I hope that eventually Bob n' Company extend the time limit to the standard 45-60 minutes.

As for another point: I've never been particularly interested in cable news/Crossfire-style fireworks-for-fireworks sake. some of the best diavlogs have been friendly conversations between people who largely agree on everything. I think the BhTV imperative to achieve conflict is misguided - but then again, my opinion is informed by nothing but my own preference. It's probably true that conflict generates more hits and sustains more interest across a larger audience.

graz 09-22-2009 11:37 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 130804)
.

As for another point: I've never been particularly interested in cable news/Crossfire-style fireworks-for-fireworks sake. some of the best diavlogs have been friendly conversations between people who largely agree on everything. I think the BhTV imperative to achieve conflict is misguided - but then again, my opinion is informed by nothing but my own preference. It's probably true that conflict generates more hits and sustains more interest across a larger audience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreppyMcPrepperson (Post 130801)
To the point about our agreeing too much, I promise to bring Althouse levels of contrarianism-for-its-own-sake next time.


Disagreeing just to satisfy a programmer or commenter's request is silly.
Again, my expectations for a challenge between disagreeing commenters as promised by Bob was dashed. I'll get over it. It could get accustomed to a bong/preppy pairing... but why not post them on the Diavlog comments section.
Or maybe I'll just let go of the desire for some fightin' commenters. I had some dream match-ups in mind... oh well.

AemJeff 09-22-2009 11:42 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graz (Post 130806)
...
Or maybe I'll just let go of the desire for some fightin' commenters. I had some dream match-ups in mind... oh well.

I bet there's an inverse relationship between the odds of a match-up occurring and its rank on your list!

graz 09-22-2009 11:44 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Indeed!

Simon Willard 09-22-2009 11:55 PM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 130804)
.... some of the best diavlogs have been friendly conversations between people who largely agree on everything. I think the BhTV imperative to achieve conflict is misguided

I have a slightly different view. Agreement diavlogs are boring. I like people who have differing perspectives - who throw light on a subject from different directions. This doesn't have to mean conflict! The best diavloggers actually listen to their partner, they probe and challenge in a friendly way, but they don't try to win debating points.

nikkibong 09-23-2009 12:03 AM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
Thanks, graz.

Oh: and you are truly the master archival researcher. Where were you when I was working on my thesis??

Starwatcher162536 09-23-2009 12:08 AM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
I am not sure if the following is an insult to the normal BHeads, or a compliment to the Apollo participants:

This Apollo diavlog seemed to be no less in content per unit time then the average prime time diavlog, and certainly higher then some Ive seen.

Wonderment 09-23-2009 01:31 AM

Re: Showtime at the Apollo (nikkibong & PreppyMcPrepperson)
 
This is Neil Armstrong on the Apollo and Louis Armstrong in the Apollo all rolled into one.

I'm totally stoked and I haven't even watched it yet.


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