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Bloggingheads 09-02-2008 08:07 AM

...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Afterthought

A few minutes from the beginning of this conversation, including the introductions, had to be edited out, which is why the diavlog begins with Ana's otherwise-puzzling introduction of her cat.

--BhTV staff

Xelgaex 09-02-2008 08:33 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
I'm loving the humor in this diavlog. This is my personal preference for political discussion. Disagree without being disagreeable. (Bob and Mickey do a good job of this too.)

On the grammar front, sometimes not correcting someone can be good, because they might be right. (To be fair though, Ana doesn't say actually say he's wrong, just that she is against the usage. It's really Matt who assumes that he's made a mistake.)

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 09:02 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
After watching about 14 minutes, and thinking of Kingfish's complaint about the Glenn and Josh diavlog, I'll say this: at least when two liberals talk, they talk about their concerns about their own candidate's shortcomings and the areas where they disagree with him. Matt Lewis is about as plausible as a McCain campaign spokesperson appearing on Fox News. Up next: Sarah Palin: A Great Pick or Greatest Pick Ever? He's a perfect illustration of why we call his outfit ClownHall.

I'll say this about the whole "experience" question, comparing Palin to Obama: Whether or not you think Obama gained anything from the first 40-odd years of his life that would help him to be a good president, there is no getting around the fact that he has spent the better part of the last two years immersed in the issues. He's been reading briefing books, consulting with and learning from experts, being challenged on his views by his own party, the other party, and the media, and he has not shown the slightest hint of being an intellectual lightweight. Agree with him or don't, but it's a crock to say he's not prepared at this point.

By contrast, everything Palin has said, that's been transcribed or caught on tape and posted to YouTube, indicates that she hasn't spent minute one thinking about anything outside the boundaries of Alaska. It should also be noted that as far as being an "executive" goes, there are numerous accounts out there that portray her as a "hands-off" governor who spent little time at the office, who left the bulk of the work and decision-making to her staff.

As for Ana Marie, her utter disrespect of the blogosphere is appalling. It's amazing how quickly she has become a Villager. Granted, there is all manner of noise out there, but there is also a wealth of informed opinion, on the right, on the left, and from all sorts of moderates, mavericks, and out-of-the-box thinkers, to boot. There's also been real reporting on stories the MSM missed, from Powerline's Rathergate exposé to TPM's breaking the story of the attorney firings scandal. I have a feeling she is judging the worth of the blogosphere mostly from the comments left under her own posts. And no matter where she's looking to form her misguided impressions, if she's sincere about them, then I wonder why she deigns to be on BloggingHeads.tv in the first place.

I'm going to give this diavlog a few more minutes, but it doesn't look good. This pair is making the babbling fools who covered the convention seem like sages in retrospect.

[Added] Just noticed it's only twenty minutes long. Thank Bob for small mercies.

osmium 09-02-2008 09:12 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
The conservative excitement over Sarah Palin is most certainly sincere. If Barack Obama had selected Dennis Kucinich to be vice president, liberals the country over would have rejoiced. Sincere excitement doesn't necessarily mean anything pragmatic, of course, and most people wouldn't want Kucinich anywhere near the White House.

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 09:21 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by osmium (Post 89356)
The conservative excitement over Sarah Palin is most certainly sincere. If Barack Obama had selected Dennis Kucinich to be vice president, liberals the country over would have rejoiced. Sincere excitement doesn't necessarily mean anything pragmatic, of course, and most people wouldn't want Kucinich anywhere near the White House.

This liberal wouldn't have. I think Kucinich's heart is in the right place, and I thought his five-minute speech at the convention was outstanding, but I would not at all like to see him running things or being next in line. And that doesn't even begin to count the host of politically motivated complaints that I'd raise.

thouartgob 09-02-2008 09:40 AM

Over Sexed NRO blogger need you help...
 
unnerved by the not so perfect coverage we have a fine bloggers like Jay Nordlinger accidently displaying his unchristian-like attraction to the Democratic ticket.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...kxNTcyZTg0NGU=

Quote:


I don’t think Barack Obama needed to have a big, jazzy closing night — the “O-cropolis,” the fireworks, the bells and whistles. Why? Because he has enough jazz and sex — enough pizzazz and charisma — on his own. Some people think he has too much.

Consider Ronald Reagan, in 1980. He was regarded as a Hollywood guy, and the rap against him was that he was all style, no substance — just a bunch of Tinseltown glitz. So his ads were very, very plain: They had Reagan speaking straight into the camera, about some issue — some kitchen-table issue. No music, no Hollywood. Very, very effective.

Biden may need to be sexed up (or shut up). Same with McCain. Obama — and Palin — no.
The gratuitous use of the word SEX has to explained somehow. :-) I mean it's not as if conservatives have been deploying sexual imagery near obama to somehow stoke the unconscious fears of the general public. To quote Bill Cosby "RIIIIIIGHT"

Xelgaex 09-02-2008 09:45 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 89355)
After watching about 14 minutes, and thinking of Kingfish's complaint about the Glenn and Josh diavlog, I'll say this: at least when two liberals talk, they talk about their concerns about their own candidate's shortcomings and the areas where they disagree with him. Matt Lewis is about as plausible as a McCain campaign spokesperson appearing on Fox News. Up next: Sarah Palin: A Great Pick or Greatest Pick Ever?

I wonder sometimes whether this isn't a deliberate conservative strategy. When the left is willing to weigh pros and cons and the right focuses on the positive, it's kinda like putting your thumb on the scale.

However, I wouldn't want the left to start doing the same thing or it's just Crossfire. Hopefully conservatives can be found who are willing to make the same sort of analysis.

Quote:

As for Ana Marie, her utter disrespect of the blogosphere is appalling. It's amazing how quickly she has become a Villager. Granted, there is all manner of noise out there, but there is also a wealth of informed opinion, on the right, on the left, and from all sorts of moderates, mavericks, and out-of-the-box thinkers, to boot. I have a feeling she is judging the worth of the blogosphere mostly from the comments left under her own posts. And no matter where she's looking to form her misguided impressions, if she's sincere about them, then I wonder why she deigns to be on BloggingHeads.tv in the first place.
That was slightly odd. It's the kind of thing you'd expect from the MSM not BH.tv. Maybe it's a sort of self-effacing modesty. And it is true, as you say, that there is a lot of junk out there. But you'd think that she'd want the blogosphere to have more influence and impact, not less.

Quote:

[Added] Just noticed it's only twenty minutes long. Thank Bob for small mercies.
We should all thank Bob daily for his wondrous gifts.

AemJeff 09-02-2008 09:47 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 89357)
This liberal wouldn't have. I think Kucinich's heart is in the right place, and I thought his five-minute speech at the convention was outstanding, but I would not at all like to see him running things or being next in line. And that doesn't even begin to count the host of politically motivated complaints that I'd raise.

I couldn't have said it better. Kucinich seems like a good guy to have on your side, to help keep the (we?) cynics honest, but I'd have a hard time mustering enthusiasm for him as a national candidate.

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 09:50 AM

Re: Over Sexed NRO blogger need you help...
 
thouartgob:

Funny stuff. One minor point that caught my eye:

Quote:

... the “O-cropolis” ...
It's amazing that the wingnuts are still trying to get mileage out of this. Anyone who watched Obama speak on TV did not see the whole stage. They saw a background of two (Oval) office-looking windows and an American flag, blowing smartly in the breeze. Very presidential-looking.

I guess Nordlinger's doing what he's paid to do -- preach to the choir -- but the only people who obsessed about the set design weren't going to vote for Obama in any case.

thouartgob 09-02-2008 10:03 AM

Re: Over Sexed NRO blogger need you help...
 
Quote:

but the only people who obsessed about the set design weren't going to vote for Obama in any case.
Actually there are a bunch of people who get obsessed by set design that could vote for Obama and might be presaging another shift in the Mccain Strategy to grab up another democratic demographic.

Ana Maries Cox not to thrilled with McCain at the moment could this be the beginnings of a Cronkite Moment of Clarity: "... Hang it up Uncle John ..."

ohcomeon 09-02-2008 10:09 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
I agree with Matt Lewis about very little. But one thing on which we agree completely is McCain's choice of Sarah Palin.

The first thing that I find particularly attractive about her is her recent membership in the Alaskan Independence Party. The last time I looked their website had crashed but this statement had been on the front page of it:

"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."

And while McCain's motto -- as seen in a new TV ad -- is "Country First," the AIP's motto is the exact opposite -- "Alaska First -- Alaska Always."

Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP, tells ABC News that Palin and her husband Todd were members in 1994, even attending the 1994 statewide convention in Wasilla. Clark was AIP secretary at the time.

Ms. Clark has been quoted as saying that party members need to "infiltrate" the two major parties in order to promote Alaskan independence. hmmm...

No word yet on the chance of her being an ax murder.

This election just got a lot more fun.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 10:11 AM

Re: Over Sexed NRO blogger need you help...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 89362)
Anyone who watched Obama speak on TV did not see the whole stage. They saw a background of two (Oval) office-looking windows and an American flag, blowing smartly in the breeze. Very presidential-looking.

Should have added this earlier:

http://i.usatoday.net/news/_photos/2...amax-large.jpg

(pic. source)

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 10:14 AM

Re: Over Sexed NRO blogger need you help...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thouartgob (Post 89363)
Actually there are a bunch of people who get obsessed by set design that could vote for Obama and might be presaging another shift in the Mccain Strategy to grab up another democratic demographic.

Ana Maries Cox not to thrilled with McCain at the moment could this be the beginnings of a Cronkite Moment of Clarity: "... Hang it up Uncle John ..."

I do confess to being shocked that she didn't gush about His Mavericky Wonderfulness the entire time. I think I even heard "I might vote for Obama" at one point, but I can't be sure, because I fainted.

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 10:25 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ohcomeon (Post 89364)
No word yet on the chance of her being an ax murder.

LOL!

And, it looks like another major scandal is about to erupt:

Quote:

Amy Gwin, 43, of University City, grew up in Alaska and competed in the Miss Wasilla, Alaska, competition in 1984 against GOP vice presidential choice Sarah Palin. Gwin said Friday that she won the Miss Congeniality award in the competition, although Palin's Wikipedia entry says she won the contest — and the Miss Congeniality award.
(h/t: John Cole, who lists four additional (serious) potential scandals, as well.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohcomeon (Post 89364)
This election just got a lot more fun.

For Democrats, at least.

And now, for dessert, who wants polls?

AemJeff 09-02-2008 10:27 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
I think this pairing works pretty well. Contrary to many of my fellow travelers, seemingly, I like AMC. Maybe I give too much credit, but she seems to me to offer pretty sophisticated observations with a lot of "meta" content. Cornered, and asked to illustrate what I mean by that, I'd probably wouldn't have a clear example, so judge for yourself. Matt is guy with whom I probably don't share many opinions; and I think his process, insofar as I can divine it from this single short segment, seems shallow in the sense that he doesn't seem to have any questions at all about the fundamental "rightness" of his point of view, nevertheless seems like an appealing guy who can have a substantive conversation with someone he doesn't agree with on a deep level. All in all, these two held my attention for twenty minutes and probably could have for a full hour.

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 10:29 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
I call upon the Go12 to banish AemJeff.

;^) <--- (attn: harkin)

Larry Bird 09-02-2008 10:37 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
This is Larry Bird saying I don't give a crap which candidate resembles which NBA team. Way to stay focused on the important stuff, Ana!

AemJeff 09-02-2008 10:38 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 89369)
I call upon the Go12 to banish AemJeff.

;^) <--- (attn: harkin)

http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

You wouldn't want me to email the passwords to harkin and rcocean, would you?

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 10:58 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 89372)
http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

You wouldn't want me to email the passwords to harkin and rcocean, would you?

Already changed, my former friend.

As is the secret handshake.

thouartgob 09-02-2008 11:07 AM

Re: Over Sexed NRO blogger need you help...
 
You would think that Obama's appearance in a west wing mockup would send the Mccain camp into a tizzy about Obama's audacity !! Another talking point missed. So sad. Well maybe we can come up with something.., Okay Ayers blows up federal buildings and federal buildings look like Greek Temples so Ayers would want to bomb Greek Temples, The syllogism is complete .... Has Ayers ever traveled to Greece... Get the NRO on the job to find out.

.... Now a joke mmmm Oh I wonder if Obama was worried that Ayers would bomb the set at the stadium... Jay Nordlinger you can have that one I owe ya one Buddy.

Actually since Obama is basically best buds with Ayers and his that middle name of his... Maybe Obama might have blown up his own set... K-LO can have that train of thought.

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 11:07 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Yglesias:

Quote:

The unfolding Palin situation, meanwhile, is so absurd that it’s got Richard Cohen writing solid columns.
He's right about that.

DoctorMoney 09-02-2008 11:08 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Bird (Post 89371)
This is Larry Bird saying I don't give a crap which candidate resembles which NBA team. Way to stay focused on the important stuff, Ana!

Getting funny quotes from Sir Charles has to be the dictionary definition of low hanging fruit.

AemJeff 09-02-2008 11:11 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 89376)
Already changed, my former friend.

As is the secret handshake.

Yeah well, I'm keeping the Ché t-shirts!

Larry Bird 09-02-2008 11:19 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctorMoney (Post 89380)
Getting funny quotes from Sir Charles has to be the dictionary definition of low hanging fruit.


It's not even basketball season for christ sake.

What's the point?

ohcomeon 09-02-2008 11:24 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
One Amy Gwin, of University City, Alaska, now claims she actually won the title of Miss Congeniality in the 1984 Miss Wasilla, Alaska contest.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...0?OpenDocument

You can't make this stuff up.

KingFish 09-02-2008 11:24 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
He's been reading briefing books, consulting with and learning from experts, being challenged on his views by his own party, the other party, and the media, and he has not shown the slightest hint of being an intellectual lightweight. Agree with him or don't, but it's a crock to say he's not prepared at this point.

You're kidding, right? By this standard, Adlai Stephenson should have easily trounced the guy who led the D-Day invasion both times he ran against him, but amazingly, that didn't happen! I agree that he is not an intellectual lightweight, but how much does that matter? I don't see the electorate caring about that as much as you do, whether that's good or not.

I agree that Palin's experience seems limited; she's a bit of blank slate at this point, but she's obviously fired up a campaign that seemed moribund up to this point. I think a debate with Biden will be the most interesting test, and where people's true feelings will emerge.

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 11:29 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 89381)
Yeah well, I'm keeping the Ché t-shirts!

Not a problem. We have new ones.

And, for laundry day, these.

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 11:31 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ohcomeon (Post 89384)
One Amy Gwin, of University City, Alaska, now claims she actually won the title of Miss Congeniality in the 1984 Miss Wasilla, Alaska contest.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...0?OpenDocument

You can't make this stuff up.

Beat ya.

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 11:34 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KingFish (Post 89385)

The full paragraph:
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 89355)
I'll say this about the whole "experience" question, comparing Palin to Obama: Whether or not you think Obama gained anything from the first 40-odd years of his life that would help him to be a good president, there is no getting around the fact that he has spent the better part of the last two years immersed in the issues. He's been reading briefing books, consulting with and learning from experts, being challenged on his views by his own party, the other party, and the media, and he has not shown the slightest hint of being an intellectual lightweight. Agree with him or don't, but it's a crock to say he's not prepared at this point.

You're kidding, right? By this standard, Adlai Stephenson should have easily trounced the guy who led the D-Day invasion both times he ran against him, but amazingly, that didn't happen! I agree that he is not an intellectual lightweight, but how much does that matter? I don't see the electorate caring about that as much as you do, whether that's good or not.

No, I wasn't kidding. And if you'll re-read, you'll see I wasn't talking about general electability, either. I was talking, here, about experience related to foreign policy.

ohcomeon 09-02-2008 11:38 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
bj - I wish I had time to play race you to the next scandal all day. Pretty sure there will be something new every couple of hours or so. I've spent the last three days helping evacuees from Gustav who have taken refuge here. I took the morning off to clear my head and I am hoping many are now on their way back home. This Palin stuff is just the tonic I need. Keep up the good work until I can return to the fun!

KingFish 09-02-2008 11:41 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Sorry, I'm not seeing the specific foreign policy references in the post.

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 11:59 AM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ohcomeon (Post 89390)
I've spent the last three days helping evacuees from Gustav who have taken refuge here.

Good on you.

AemJeff 09-02-2008 12:01 PM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 89386)
Not a problem. We have new ones.

And, for laundry day, these.

I give up! The Che ney shirts are sublime!

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 12:01 PM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KingFish (Post 89391)
Sorry, I'm not seeing the specific foreign policy references in the post.

You're right. I was thinking it, but wrote it in terms of experience in general. Same argument, though: you can add to foreign policy any domestic issues you like, and my point still stands -- Obama has spent the better part of the past two years immersed in preparation. Palin has not.

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 12:03 PM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 89396)
I give up!

Good news from the Central Committee: Your willingness to submit qualifies you for readmission.

Quote:

The Che ney shirts are sublime!
Yeah, weren't those a hoot?

thouartgob 09-02-2008 12:06 PM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KingFish (Post 89391)
Sorry, I'm not seeing the specific foreign policy references in the post.

here is one of the first things google popped up: http://obama.senate.gov/press/070111-lugar-obama_non/

Please feel free to grab keywords like Foreign Relations Committee or non proliferation ... stuff like that. I mean I know Palin is going to toe-to-toe with the Ruuuuskies across the Bearing Strait and you know the Bearing Strait is dangerous as well so add "...defends America against subversive bodies of water.." to her resume as well but are we really ready to defend the fact that Obama has more experience in the private sector than Mccain.


Quote:

Originally Posted by KingFish (Post 89385)
... I think a debate with Biden will be the most interesting test, and where people's true feelings will emerge.

This means what ??? If you don't mind being asked.

skonny 09-02-2008 12:12 PM

Nutshell Clip
 
It's like a scene out of an old superman, when the nogoodnik is cornered and helpless. Out of sheer desperation, he throws his spent pistol at the man of steel.

It doesn't work.

AemJeff 09-02-2008 12:45 PM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 89398)
Good news from the Central Committee: Your willingness to submit qualifies you for readmission.

<exhales in a shuddering sigh>

basman 09-02-2008 12:48 PM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
The essential point that I got from this, and totally agree with, is the just plain wrongness of using "impact" as a verb.

That's right up there with screwing up "disinterested."

Itzik Basman

bjkeefe 09-02-2008 01:22 PM

Re: ...And Introducing Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by basman (Post 89406)
The essential point that I got from this, and totally agree with, is the just plain wrongness of using "impact" as a verb.

That's right up there with screwing up "disinterested."

Itzik Basman

You're preaching to my choir, Itzik. Unfortunately, I think we're losing the battle on using impact as a verb. In fact, come to think of it, I pretty came close to surrendering about three years ago, and this bit explain why:

Quote:

But then I read an interview with some Washington, D.C., mover and shaker. She told the (clearly much younger) interviewer that when she welcomes a new woman into her social circle: "Well, first we recept her . . ."

Interviewer, interrupting, aghast: "OMG! You can't be serious. Is recept really a verb now?"

Since it was a print article, I'm just imagining the disdainful sniff and look down said nose. Anyway, our matron sez, "Honey, when I was your age, party wasn't a verb."


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