Bloggingheads Community

Bloggingheads Community (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/index.php)
-   Diavlog comments (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9)
-   -   Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat) (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=6423)

Bloggingheads 01-10-2011 10:30 PM

Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 

operative 01-10-2011 10:33 PM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Wow, bringing on a woman who openly longed for Dick Cheney's death on Bhtv, to talk about a crazy assassin. There's some irony in that. Was the creep who made Death of a President unavailable?

bjkeefe 01-10-2011 11:04 PM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 194058)
Wow, bringing on a woman who openly longed for Dick Cheney's death on Bhtv, to talk about a crazy assassin.

Huh. Apparently, rhetoric matters once again?

Keep beating, hummingbird.

Quote:

Was the creep who made Death of a President unavailable?
No. That's why we had to get someone who demands forced pregnancy be the law of the land come on to talk about abortion.

operative 01-10-2011 11:07 PM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 194070)
Huh. Apparently, rhetoric matters once again?

Keep beating, hummingbird.

I just think it's pretty ironic that we have someone who has engaged in some rather unwise rhetoric condemning others for engaging in some unwise rhetoric.

I don't mind a discussion on the political climate (I don't think that the contemporary climate is particularly charged, viewing it in a historical context). What I object to is the framing of the shooting necessitating a discussion of the political climate. I don't like creepy rhetoric from the right (eg the 'build your army' founding fathers ad from a crazy House candidate) anymore than I do from the left.

operative 01-10-2011 11:12 PM

Michelle gets a basic detail wrong
 
Allen West did not make the comment Michelle ascribes to him around 11 minutes in or so. Joyce Kaufman made it at a rally. (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...chief-of-staff)

West made a rather boneheaded move in initially tapping Kaufman for CoS, but that doesn't give Michelle license to get some rather important facts wrong.

johnmarzan 01-10-2011 11:24 PM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 194058)
Wow, bringing on a woman who openly longed for Dick Cheney's death on Bhtv, to talk about a crazy assassin. There's some irony in that. Was the creep who made Death of a President unavailable?

Ouch.

johnmarzan 01-10-2011 11:47 PM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 194058)
Wow, bringing on a woman who openly longed for Dick Cheney's death on Bhtv, to talk about a crazy assassin. There's some irony in that. Was the creep who made Death of a President unavailable?

but seriously though, Michelle Goldberg and other leftwing BHTV contributors who were on record in bhtv longing for cheney's death or bush's assassination, or using violent, slanderous rhetoric (especially during the bush years), should be permanently banned from appearing on BHTV again.

it's about time.

johnmarzan 01-10-2011 11:54 PM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmarzan (Post 194089)
but seriously though, Michelle Goldberg and other leftwing BHTV contributors who were on record in bhtv longing for cheney's death or bush's assassination, or using violent, slanderous rhetoric (especially during the bush years), should be permanently banned from appearing on BHTV again.

it's about time.

at least it will show me how these opportunistic MSM leftwingers are serious about their newfound civility talk. let's start with goldberg. if bob wright can't do it, then i have to assume that faux outrage at palin and tea party by michelle the liberal crazies at bhtv are nothing more than exploiting giffords for political leftwinger gains.

johnmarzan 01-10-2011 11:57 PM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
time to put up, or shut the fcku up. okay, i'm done. i have nothing more to say. good day, ms. goldberg.

Wonderment 01-11-2011 12:00 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Wow, bringing on a woman who openly longed for Dick Cheney's death on Bhtv, to talk about a crazy assassin. There's some irony in that.
It's not ironic. She made the statement about Cheney precisely to point out the distinction between harboring a bad thought about a political figure and advocating violence.

What she said, when baited by Megan McCardle, was, "I certainly wouldn't be shedding many tears if Dick Cheney dropped dead." She then continued, "There's a difference between 'I wish someone was dead' and 'I'm going to get my gun and go to Washington and who's with me.' "

This seems to me to be perfectly consistent with her notion expressed here that right wing rhetoric about "Second Amendment remedies" is incendiary.

Personally, I would much prefer to see Cheney prosecuted for war crimes than dead, but hey, that's just me.

johnmarzan 01-11-2011 12:08 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
I expect michelle goldberg and other bhtv contributors who engaged in hateful, violent rhetoric during "those crazy bush years" to be banned permanently from bhtv. short of that, then all of this lefty talk re "civility" is just posturing and for opportunistic political gain. fantasizing about a public officials death should not be part of our political discourse. can you imagine if a rightwinger bhtv contributor fantasized about obama's death? that would be totally unacceptable.

johnmarzan 01-11-2011 12:12 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 194095)
This seems to me to be perfectly consistent with her notion expressed here that right wing rhetoric about "Second Amendment remedies" is incendiary.

excuse me, but if i recall correctly, much of the violent, incendiary, eliminationist rhetoric of this decade came from leftwingers, at rallies, in the movies, in media, and in the blogosphere, and directed at the bush admin.

operative 01-11-2011 12:14 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 194095)
It's not ironic. She made the statement about Cheney precisely to point out the distinction between harboring a bad thought about a political figure and advocating violence.

What she said, when baited by Megan McCardle, was, "I certainly wouldn't be shedding many tears if Dick Cheney dropped dead." She then continued, "There's a difference between 'I wish someone was dead' and 'I'm going to get my gun and go to Washington and who's with me.' "

This seems to me to be perfectly consistent with her notion expressed here that right wing rhetoric about "Second Amendment remedies" is incendiary.

Personally, I would much prefer to see Cheney prosecuted for war crimes than dead, but hey, that's just me.

The former would be interpreted by Goldberg as 'winking' at political violence, if said by a left-winger (and honestly, I find her comment to be offensive, and I would say the same thing if someone said the same about Obama), while the latter has not been said by anyone who Goldberg has been condemning.

JonIrenicus 01-11-2011 12:15 AM

Does not happen in a vacuum?
 
http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/334...9:59&out=10:35


Correct. But this was NOT predictable. It is more akin to a chaotic pathway than one of more direct or indirect consequence. If your argument about the effect of hostile rhetoric relies primarily on a population of insane people to have any weight... it's not a good argument.


The flaw of Michelle and so many others is that they are trying to extrapolate a rhyme and reason from this guys mind, which is near impossible as his mind is chaotic. He was cracked from the start, how many things in the world could have set him off?

You don't organize the rules of societies discourse to be subservient to how a psychotic would interpret things and react.


The best thing to do is make it easier to institutionalize these sorts of people earlier, against their will if needed. I'll be glad to throw more government money at that, Reagan was wrong to cut that aspect of budgets.

johnmarzan 01-11-2011 12:15 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
well, michelle did wish for cheney's death, wonderment. bye bye michelle. leftwingers are really stupid, arent they?

Wonderment 01-11-2011 12:22 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

excuse me, but if i recall correctly, much of the violent, incendiary, eliminationist rhetoric of this decade came from leftwingers, at rallies, in the movies, in media, and in the blogosphere, and directed at the bush admin.
Really? I attended dozens of peace rallies during the Bush era and didn't see or hear any violent or incendiary rhetoric. There may have been some somewhere, but if so, it was quite rare.

Do you consider it violent to call for the impeachment of the President and the indictment of other government officials responsible for torture and the criminal invasion of Iraq?

johnmarzan 01-11-2011 12:38 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
here's more from bhtv contributor ann althouse

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/01...blame-for.html

Quote:

"Sarah Palin is not to blame for shooting of Gabrielle Giffords; left-wing rhetoric just as vicious."

Ah, now you see why the accusations backfire (if I may dare to use that word): the occasion has been created for conservatives to list every violent-sounding thing any liberals or lefties have ever said about anything.

Knock yourselves out.

If I may use the expression.
i hope to hear from her soon on bhtv on the giffords shooting.

badhatharry 01-11-2011 12:43 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 194104)
Really? I attended dozens of peace rallies during the Bush era and didn't see or hear any violent or incendiary rhetoric. There may have been some somewhere, but if so, it was quite rare.

Do you consider it violent to call for the impeachment of the President and the indictment of other government officials responsible for torture and the criminal invasion of Iraq?

Really? I attended dozens of tea party rallies during the health care debate era and didn't see or hear any violent or incendiary rhetoric. There may have been some somewhere, but if so, it was quite rare.

Do you consider it violent to call for the abandonment of a plan which many considered an ill-advised government overhaul of a system which many citizens thought should be left in private hands?

badhatharry 01-11-2011 12:46 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmarzan (Post 194091)
at least it will show me how these opportunistic MSM leftwingers are serious about their newfound civility talk. let's start with goldberg. if bob wright can't do it, then i have to assume that faux outrage at palin and tea party by michelle the liberal crazies at bhtv are nothing more than exploiting giffords for political leftwinger gains.

Just tune in to Olbermann tomorrow. He has promised to take a knee for the sake of the nation by abandoning his 'worst person' segment. We'll see what it's replaced with.

badhatharry 01-11-2011 12:50 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Just because there is no provable connection between this crazy man and the right, it's really good to point out the connection. Michelle will hold this view to her grave.

Good for Ross for pointing out Michelle's blindness to her own bias. Actually Ross held his own quite nicely.

rcocean 01-11-2011 12:51 AM

Why Ross why?
 
Why did you waste your time talking to Michelle? Whatever your faults, you come across as a serious, intelligent guy who actually *thinks* about Politics and the world. IOW, the exact opposite of Michelle.

So, you couldn't find anyone else? You couldn't find someone who'd do more than just blather and give out MSNBC talking points? Isn't Michelle the one who's accused, Palin, Beck & Limbaugh of being anti-semites and contacted the ADL?

What a waste. Maybe next time they can pair you with someone at your level.

badhatharry 01-11-2011 12:59 AM

Re: Does not happen in a vacuum?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JonIrenicus (Post 194100)
http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/334...9:59&out=10:35


Correct. But this was NOT predictable. It is more akin to a chaotic pathway than one of more direct or indirect consequence. If your argument about the effect of hostile rhetoric relies primarily on a population of insane people to have any weight... it's not a good argument.


George Will does a nice job of addressing your 'chaotic pathway'.

Quote:

The craving is for banishing randomness and the inexplicable from human experience. Time was, the gods were useful. What is thunder? The gods are angry. Polytheism was explanatory. People postulated causations...

...Demystification of the world opened the way for real science, including the social sciences. And for a modern characteristic. And for charlatans.

johnmarzan 01-11-2011 01:02 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 194058)
Wow, bringing on a woman who openly longed for Dick Cheney's death on Bhtv, to talk about a crazy assassin. There's some irony in that. Was the creep who made Death of a President unavailable?

a neverending list of leftwing hollywood celeberties violent, eliminationist rhetoric targetting bush, conservatives, tea party, palin

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/

Wonderment 01-11-2011 01:36 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Really? I attended dozens of tea party rallies during the health care debate era and didn't see or hear any violent or incendiary rhetoric. There may have been some somewhere, but if so, it was quite rare.
Yes, I was at one too. Very mellow and peaceful. All white people though. Mostly seniors.

Quote:

Do you consider it violent to call for the abandonment of a plan which many considered an ill-advised government overhaul of a system which many citizens thought should be left in private hands?
No.

bjkeefe 01-11-2011 01:37 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
If the first post from the operative and every post from johnmarzan between 09:33 PM and 12:02 AM (EST) does not end up in the dungeon, or is not at least suppressed from the video page, there will no longer be even a shred of doubt about this site being more honestly named AffirmativeActionForWingnuts.tv.

The Michelle Goldberg Derangement Syndrome among the poisonous voices of the right on this site is nothing short of remarkable.

operative 01-11-2011 01:38 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 194139)
If every post from johnmarzan and operative between 09:33 PM and 12:02 AM (EST) does not end up in the dungeon, or is not at least suppressed from the video page, there will no longer be even a shred of doubt about this site being more honestly named AffirmativeActionForWingnuts.tv.

The Michelle Goldberg Derangement Syndrome among the poisonous voices of the right on this site is nothing short of remarkable.

How dare we criticize Michelle Goldberg!

bjkeefe 01-11-2011 01:40 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 194140)
How dare we criticize Michelle Goldberg!

I am not surprised you can't see the distinction I was making.

badhatharry 01-11-2011 01:40 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 194138)
Yes, I was at one too. Very mellow and peaceful. All white people though. Mostly seniors.



No.

Oh Happy Day! You finally responed to one of my posts. I no longer feel like a big fat schmuck.

operative 01-11-2011 01:42 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 194141)
I am not surprised you can't see the distinction I was making.

Yes, the distinction between those who dare to criticize Michelle Goldberg and those who do not acknowledge her history of inflammatory rhetoric as well as her sloppy factchecking. I know you worship at the throne of St Michelle, BJ, but do you have to make it so apparent?

bjkeefe 01-11-2011 01:44 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 194144)
I know you worship at the throne of St Michelle, BJ, ...

I am not surprised you can't see the distinction I was making.

Wonderment 01-11-2011 01:45 AM

Re: Why Ross why?
 
Quote:

Isn't Michelle the one who's accused, Palin, Beck & Limbaugh of being anti-semites and contacted the ADL?
No, I think it was just Beck whom she suggested was engaging in an anti-Semitic attack on George Soros.

Abe Foxman of the ADL concurred: “Glenn Beck’s description of George Soros’ actions during the Holocaust is completely inappropriate, offensive and over the top. For a political commentator or entertainer to have the audacity to say—inaccurately—that there’s a Jewish boy sending Jews to death camps, as part of a broader assault on Mr. Soros, that’s horrific… To hold a young boy responsible for what was going on around him during the Holocaust as part of a larger effort to denigrate the man is repugnant.”

I agree with Michelle that Beck's rants sound about as rational as Mr. Loughner's. Too bad Loughner had a Glock instead of a blackboard, a microphone and a hair stylist.

operative 01-11-2011 01:46 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 194145)
I am not surprised you can't see the distinction I was making.

No, I did see. Now you don't see the distinction I'm making.

Wonderment 01-11-2011 01:53 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Oh Happy Day! You finally responded to one of my posts. I no longer feel like a big fat schmuck.
Good. Don't let your self-esteem depend on what others think of you though.

bjkeefe 01-11-2011 01:55 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 194148)
No, I did see. Now you don't see the distinction I'm making.

You'll have an impossible task supporting your claim that I "worship" Michelle.

On the other hand, you've already declared yourself as willing to change the meaning of words to suit your immediate purpose, so I guess in your poisonous cranium, sharing some of her views and defending her against unwarranted bile counts as "worship."

And yes, you do fail to see the distinction I made earlier. There is a real difference between (a) disagreeing with her views or disputing specific things she says, and (b) rushing in to start a stream of invective, without, I'd hazard to guess, having even watched the diavlog.

operative 01-11-2011 01:58 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 194150)
You'll have an impossible task supporting your claim that I "worship" Michelle.

Inability to substantiate claims has never stopped you before, so I'm learning something on here.

Quote:

On the other hand, you've already declared yourself as willing to change the meaning of words to suit your immediate purpose,
Actually it was emoticons. But hey, what is government if words have no meaning, eh?

Quote:

so I guess in your poisonous cranium,
Where the sanctity of emoticons is not respected.

Quote:

sharing some of her views and defending her against unwarranted bile counts as "worship."
Glossing over her history of inflammatory remarks and sloppy factchecking. But you are one for the delusions.

Quote:

And yes, you do fail to see the distinction I made earlier. There is a real difference between (a) disagreeing with her views or disputing specific things she says, and (b) rushing in to start a stream of invective, without, I'd hazard to guess, having even watched the diavlog.
And hazard you did. I watched most of the diavlog, violating my general boycott against her because the irony of the subject matter was simply too rich to ignore.

bjkeefe 01-11-2011 02:00 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 194152)
Inability to substantiate claims ...

Thanks for admitting.

operative 01-11-2011 02:04 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 194153)
Thanks for admitting.

Rats I missed the pre-edit version. I'm guessing it went something like this:

Quote:

HOW CAN YOU DENY MATH

brucds 01-11-2011 02:07 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Glenn Beck has a hair stylist ?

Who knew ?

And for what it's worth, the denial on the Right that the crazy rhetoric of grifters like Sarah Palin isn't creating a toxic climate (i.e. doctor-patient counseling characterized as "Death Panels", among other ugly, nasty, insane shit) is disgusting and evidence of the infantilization of the contemporary movement that calls itself "conservative", although it is anything but...

brucds 01-11-2011 02:20 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Incidentally, would someone post a link to Michelle Goldberg calling for Cheney's death, literally or metaphorically, if she did. I'd just like some clarification and/or evidence.

Also, the Palin-supported GOP crackpot who ran against Gifford included this in his campaign materials:
“Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly.”

bjkeefe 01-11-2011 02:51 AM

Re: Values Added: Assassination and Abortion (Michelle Goldberg & Ross Douthat)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 194156)
Rats I missed the pre-edit version. I'm guessing it went something like this:

Regurgitating johnmarzan's weak attempts at insult? Really? That the best you can do?

Sad.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:16 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.