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Bloggingheads 10-05-2010 01:23 PM

The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 

CHUD 10-05-2010 02:22 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
CHUD likes this.

BornAgainDemocrat 10-05-2010 02:32 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
What's the best way to learn how to use Facebook?

Don Zeko 10-05-2010 02:52 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Refrain.

Simon Willard 10-05-2010 03:02 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BornAgainDemocrat (Post 181856)
What's the best way to learn how to use Facebook?

The same way you learn to ride a bicycle.

Don Zeko 10-05-2010 04:16 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
The HMS Bloggingheads has rum* now. Can sodomy and the lash be far behind?

*or at least ale. Let's not let this detract from the larger point.

operative 10-05-2010 04:34 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zeko (Post 181859)
Refrain.

Beat me to the punch :(

Anyway, just starting this one, but I really appreciate this diavlogue--great timing with the release of what is, so far, my favorite movie of the year.

operative 10-05-2010 04:40 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
David seems to be disappointed with the departures from reality, but I actually take it as a measure of Sorkin's creativity that he was able to craft a grand dramatic arc from a line of a blog entry.

Basically what David denounces as distortions, I would label dramatic embellishments.

TwinSwords 10-05-2010 04:49 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zeko (Post 181859)
Refrain.

ROFL

CHUD 10-05-2010 04:59 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 181867)
David seems to be disappointed with the departures from reality, but I actually take it as a measure of Sorkin's creativity that he was able to craft a grand dramatic arc from a line of a blog entry.

Basically what David denounces as distortions, I would label dramatic embellishments.

David says that he recognizes that Sorkin and Fincher deviated from the truth for dramatic purposes. I think David's in a pinch though because he just wrote a non-fiction book about Facebook, and he's expected to point out factual distortions in the movie even if he recognizes their dramatic import.

nikkibong 10-05-2010 05:04 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
i, for one, am counting the days until the facebook obsession (especially among boomers like bob) finally peters out. i figured that when Time magazine started trumpeting it, and Walgreens commercials started telling me to "fan" the company, that it would finally be over. (oh, yay, facebook has created a massive free advertising platform for crap companies like walgreens!) but i guess this DV is not pitched to someone like myself -- a proud and permanent facebook holdout.

Don Zeko 10-05-2010 05:07 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
I'm not a holdout, but I'm pretty skeptical of the claims that are routinely made about the world-historical significance of social media. So when David started sounding like this, I began to wonder why he is so invested in maintaining this hagiographic sheen around Zuckerberg. This conversation would have benefited from a more aggressively skeptical viewpoint about the whole enterprise.

operative 10-05-2010 05:12 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
I think you're right. I think that leads him to be a bit too defensive of Mark Zuckerberg, though I do agree much more with him than Bob on the topic of whether Zuckerberg is a visionary or merely an opportunist.

operative 10-05-2010 05:14 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zeko (Post 181871)
I'm not a holdout, but I'm pretty skeptical of the claims that are routinely made about the world-historical significance of social media. So when David started sounding like this, I began to wonder why he is so invested in maintaining this hagiographic sheen around Zuckerberg. This conversation would have benefited from a more aggressively skeptical viewpoint about the whole enterprise.

Sheesh, Bob isn't skeptical enough for you? :p

I am loving this diavlogue, about 2/3 in. Possibly my favorite diavlogue. I am also a daily facebook user, and I am guessing that enjoying this diavlogue may not be entirely contingent upon using facebook, but enjoyment of the diavlogue is positively correlated to facebook usage.

nikkibong 10-05-2010 05:16 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zeko (Post 181871)
I'm not a holdout, but I'm pretty skeptical of the claims that are routinely made about the world-historical significance of social media.

yes. it seems to me that, (to mention something that i personally care about a lot), affordable and safe air travel has a done a great deal more to foster connections and cross-cultural pollination than social networking. easy air travel is something that has truly changed the way the world works - and manifestly for the better, IMO.

as to facebook in particular: isn't it simply an amalgam of services that already existed elsewhere on the internet? i.e.: email and photo sharing. thus, whats the BFD?

JonIrenicus 10-05-2010 05:32 PM

David = facebook PR counsel?
 
Many times David sounded more like facebooks/zuckerbergs lawyer than a detached observer. Though I guess that type of take may be par for the course to maintain and get access to facebook heads in the first place.


His main hang up seems to stem from an inability to focus on any negative mutually exclusive (or non mutually exclusive... someone figure it out by the context, my head hurts) aspects of facebook or its founders. Every time Bob tried to point out something very basic about the story told, in this case the "bad pool" of leading the winkelvie on to thinking zuckerberg was working on their project, David deflects attention away from the dishonest acts.

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/313...6:58&out=24:07


David instead launches into how facebook is entirely different than what the twins had in mind, that it was not the same thing, ALL TRUE David, just don't use that to ignore the rotten aspects of the story.

You don't need to white wash the history, just because some of the process of sausage making is disgusting does not discount the final product. Davids approach shows an insecurity, that if any aspects of the history of the facebook story are underhanded and unfair, it affects the rest of the story.

NO !!!!!!

And the reason it does not David, is because some of us out here can compartmentalize. Leading on the twins on was a shit move, diluting Eduardos shares as far as they were was a shit move, AND zuckerberg was still the driving force behind facebooks success, and NO the twins should not get to take credit for the success of facebook as if it was stolen and their idea.

The full history is not a white washed one, almost nothing is. It does not mean the end product is not a great thing, or that we think lowly of the founders because not everything they ever did was perfect or fair or just. Not for our own US history, or the history of facebook.



As an aside, Bob committed a MAJOR infraction by teasing a discussion of Eduardo Saverin, then forgetting about it entirely. Aryeh (sp) Bob gets a wrist slap in whatever court.

themightypuck 10-05-2010 05:37 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
I found Bob too skeptical. He has a strange notion of the idea of a visionary. I could buy into it if he went all the way and said the notion of a visionary or a genius is bunk but he doesn't. He thinks Jobs is one and Gates is not one which to me just sounds silly. I almost got the sense that Bob was annoyed at the way Zuckerberg did what he did. He seemed focused for some part of the diavlog on Z stealing other people's ideas as if that is actually possible. No one makes it really big without being at least a little ruthless. Bob's problem almost seems to be about Capitalism in general where someone like Zuckerberg, who clearly stands on the shoulders of giants, wins big in a winner take all game.

JonIrenicus 10-05-2010 05:44 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 181872)
I think you're right. I think that leads him to be a bit too defensive of Mark Zuckerberg, though I do agree much more with him than Bob on the topic of whether Zuckerberg is a visionary or merely an opportunist.


I don't remember whether Bob rejects the great man theory of things, but if he does like many others, that would seem to demand that he be skeptical about the unique importance of any one man in anything, whether historical or in business.


But keep in mind great man theory detractors, even if it is case that given enough time all ideas will be repeated or discovered by some individual or some group of people, those individuals have a real effect on the when discoveries are made.

How long something persists, how short a time it takes to get into a new field. Think of a lowly invention like Whitneys cotton gin. I think it is sort of like chaos, small influences at the start or some critical point can have major repercussions later on. And at those sections, the individual can have a major influence. So yes there is some luck involved at being in such a focal point of time and space, sometimes the decisions one makes in such a space can lead to a much better or worse outcome. Is it so wrong to see those who made wiser choices in those spaces as great men?

operative 10-05-2010 05:46 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by themightypuck (Post 181876)
I found Bob too skeptical. He has a strange notion of the idea of a visionary. I could buy into it if he went all the way and said the notion of a visionary or a genius is bunk but he doesn't. He thinks Jobs is one and Gates is not one which to me just sounds silly. I almost got the sense that Bob was annoyed at the way Zuckerberg did what he did. He seemed focused for some part of the diavlog on Z stealing other people's ideas as if that is actually possible. No one makes it really big without being at least a little ruthless. Bob's problem almost seems to be about Capitalism in general where someone like Zuckerberg, who clearly stands on the shoulders of giants, wins big in a winner take all game.

Yeah, I think I still don't understand what constitutes a visionary to Bob, but it seems to have much more to do with the manner in which one goes about achieving something than what one actually envisions, and that seems a bit strained to me.

I think it's worth noting that many technological visionaries took technologies or even visions that already existed and tweaked them, reimagined them, reinvented them, etc. Henry Ford would be a great example of this--he didn't invent the automobile, he just realized its mass marketing potential. Zuckerberg didn't invent social networking, he just realized its potential and the way to roll it out. And I do think that makes him a visionary.

operative 10-05-2010 05:49 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JonIrenicus (Post 181877)
I don't remember whether Bob rejects the great man theory of things, but if he does like many others, that would seem to demand that he be skeptical about the unique importance of any one man in anything, whether historical or in business.

That's true, though it seems Bob isn't entirely skeptical of an individual innovator, at least that's what his brief mention of Jobs suggests. They just need to fit his mold, whatever that is precisely.

themightypuck 10-05-2010 06:04 PM

Re: David = facebook PR counsel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JonIrenicus (Post 181875)

David instead launches into how facebook is entirely different than what the twins had in mind, that it was not the same thing, ALL TRUE David, just don't use that to ignore the rotten aspects of the story.

My reading of David's argument was that that was all he was saying. There is no question he fucked over the twins with respect to their project. The issue is whether that had anything to do with Facebook and what Zuckerberg did there. People often have an idea of fairness where if you are together at some point you are always together. This isn't how the real world works. Zuckerberg paid far more to the twins to settle their lawsuit than they ever could have lost due to his treachery.

JonIrenicus 10-05-2010 06:11 PM

Re: David = facebook PR counsel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by themightypuck (Post 181883)
My reading of David's argument was that that was all he was saying. There is no question he fucked over the twins with respect to their project. The issue is whether that had anything to do with Facebook and what Zuckerberg did there. People often have an idea of fairness where if you are together at some point you are always together. This isn't how the real world works. Zuckerberg paid far more to the twins to settle their lawsuit than they ever could have lost due to his treachery.

I agree with that completely. The problem for people like David, is he seems to give people so little credit that simply admitting zuckerberg screwed the twins over in ANY way in a non throw away comment way would lead us to think the twins had an eternal claim on facebook or that it took away from what zuckerberg did.


None of that follows, so there is no need to be so insecure about discussing zuckerbergs faults in the past.

Mattfugazi 10-05-2010 06:23 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Well yeah-- I never understood why it was any different from Friendster and MySpace. Kirkpatrick says that it is because of Facebook's tabula rasa character, but MySpace is actually a lot more customizable, which explains why so many of the pages are just hideous to look at. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Facebook addict, and I'm on all day. However, if Friendster hadn't suddenly, inexplicably become passť, that's where I'd be all day. The whole point of social media is to go where the people are.

popcorn_karate 10-05-2010 06:34 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattfugazi (Post 181887)
Well yeah-- I never understood why it was any different from Friendster and MySpace. Kirkpatrick says that it is because of Facebook's tabula rasa character, but MySpace is actually a lot more customizable, which explains why so many of the pages are just hideous to look at. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Facebook addict, and I'm on all day. However, if Friendster hadn't suddenly, inexplicably become passť, that's where I'd be all day. The whole point of social media is to go where the people are.

yeah, i think this is why zuckerberg is no visionary. Myspace and friendster were doing nearly the exact same thing, but in the end there could be only one because the utility of any of those sites is diluted by their competitor's existence.

If zuckerberg comes up with something new eventually, rather than just being the guy that got market share, he might have a claim for visionary status. still impressive, of course, but i don't see anything earthshaking in him being an effective and ruthless businessman.

Wonderment 10-05-2010 06:39 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

whats the BFD?
Indonesia?

I am also a Facebook skeptic. I use FB occassionally, both for political organizing and communicating with friends and family (mostly former students). It has a place in my life, but remains a low priority interest.

I found it mildly disturbing but predictable when I was friended by Farmer's Insurance and Honda of America.

One of my daughters, OTOH, is an addict who gets updated on her Droid every time someone on her list changes FB status. She reads all updates and posts her every move as well.

My wife is FB-resistant and has never set up an acct. Daughter #2 is a work-in-progress, having just transitioned from My Space.

I'm also a skeptic about the idea that Zuckerman is an indispensable social networking genius. No doubt he's very smart and talented, but if, as Bob asks, he had died in the crib, there would be another product out there very similar to FB made by someone else, i.e., a big upgrade to My Space and the logical progression of social networking technology.

Finally, I haven't seen the movie or read David's book, but the idea of Zuckerman as an "idealist" seems laughable to me. I certainly hope (and there are promising signs) that he turns into Bill Gates and gives gazillions to worthy causes and projects, but viewing the original impetus as altruistic seems quite far-fetched.

operative 10-05-2010 06:43 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 181890)
Indonesia?

I am also a Facebook skeptic. I use FB occassionally, both for political organizing and communicating with friends and family (mostly former students). It has a place in my life, but remains a low priority interest.

I found it mildly disturbing but predictable when I was friended by Farmer's Insurance and Honda of America.

One of my daughters, OTOH, is an addict who gets updated on her Droid every time someone on her list changes FB status. She reads all updates and posts her every move as well.

My wife is FB-resistant and has never set up an acct. Daughter #2 is a work-in-progress, having just transitioned from My Space.

I'm also a skeptic about the idea that Zuckerman is an indispensable social networking genius. No doubt he's very smart and talented, but if, as Bob asks, he had died in the crib, there would be another product out there very similar to FB made by someone else, i.e., a big upgrade to My Space and the logical progression of social networking technology.

Finally, I haven't seen the movie or read David's book, but the idea of Zuckerman as an "idealist" seems laughable to me. I certainly hope (and there are promising signs) that he turns into Bill Gates and gives gazillions to worthy causes and projects, but viewing the original impetus as altruistic seems quite far-fetched.

This is a very interesting debate, actually. I'm tempted to say that there'a a generational divide on whether or not Zuckerberg is a visionary or not (though that obviously doesn't apply to David and Bob).

I wonder though, also, if it's not something that you have to use to appreciate. For instance, could someone who remained resistant to the automobile in the early days of Model Ts appreciate the visionary aspect of Ford's venture.

BornAgainDemocrat 10-05-2010 06:45 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Well, I've tried to "get into" facebook several times but always found the interface not user-friendly. According to Wikipedia I am not alone:

" . . in a July 2010 survey performed by the American Customer Satisfaction Index, Facebook received a score of 64 out of 100, placing it in the bottom 5% of all private sector companies in terms of customer satisfaction, alongside industries such as the IRS e-file system, airlines, and cable companies.

Ouch!

Simon Willard 10-05-2010 09:24 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattfugazi (Post 181887)
Well yeah-- I never understood why it was any different from Friendster and MySpace. Kirkpatrick says that it is because of Facebook's tabula rasa character, but MySpace is actually a lot more customizable, which explains why so many of the pages are just hideous to look at. ... The whole point of social media is to go where the people are.

It's definitely the clean look of the page. Everyone is forced into the same predictable format. It's like the telephone white pages of the past. Customizability is not a good thing here. MySpace is so hideous I would be embarrassed to be associated with it.

Remember when Google first appeared? The clean page was a stark contrast to the Yahoo and AltaVista search pages. It was simple. People think "I'll go to a search page". They don't think "I'll go find a page with lots of links, advertisements, distractions and a little hidden search box."

Ocean 10-05-2010 09:26 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Bob couldn't shake his persecutory mode and kept probing Zuckerberg's real or imaginary lack of integrity. Chasing the evil by pure persistence until he got satisfied and dropped the topic.

David in turn became defense lawyer and PR representative on behalf of Zuckerberg. He did such a great job that he left me suspicious.

I'm always taken by surprise by the insistence in probing someone's life or accomplishments looking for the genius (visionary) or the evil (deceiving, in for pure monetary ambitions). Isn't it most likely that there's a bit of both, and luck, and circumstances and other ingredients that are hard to detect?

I'm in facebook for reasons that I'm still trying to figure out. But it's true that it brings you closer to others that may not be in geographical proximity. Same as mingling in a social gathering you can join conversations or ignore them, overhear stories that may interest you and keep in tough with others that you wouldn't keep in touch with more directly. It's an interesting phenomenon. I think the idea of separating group of friends is a good one. Bilingual facebooking isn't that easy. The silliness of one group may not go well with the silliness of another. And there's always the chance to unfriend someone whose tastes are too dissonant.

Simon Willard 10-05-2010 09:39 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 181890)
I'm also a skeptic about the idea that Zuckerman is an indispensable social networking genius. No doubt he's very smart and talented, but if, as Bob asks, he had died in the crib, there would be another product out there very similar to FB made by someone else, i.e., a big upgrade to My Space and the logical progression of social networking technology.

Agreed. I'm tired of hearing this nonsense about great visionary men. Of course someone else would create a better product than MySpace. Not identical to Facebook. Perhaps better than Facebook. Anyway, Zuckerman beat them to it.

If Einstein had not been born, someone else would have explained the Photoelectric Effect, and someone else would have explained Relativistic Physics. If Gates has not been born, someone else would have produced a Windows-like operating system, maybe one with fewer problems that would have closed off the Apple window of opportunity.

operative 10-05-2010 09:44 PM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Willard (Post 181910)
Agreed. I'm tired of hearing this nonsense about great visionary men. Of course someone else would create a better product than MySpace. Not identical to Facebook. Perhaps better than Facebook. Anyway, Zuckerman beat them to it.

If Einstein had not been born, someone else would have explained the Photoelectric Effect, and someone else would have explained Relativistic Physics. If Gates has not been born, someone else would have produced a Windows-like operating system, maybe one with fewer problems that would have closed off the Apple window of opportunity.

So as I understand it you don't really accept the idea that there are such things as visionaries?

Trainwreck 10-06-2010 12:15 AM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
"How Your Creepy Ex-Co-Workers Will Kill Facebook"

http://www.informationweek.com/share...leID=204203573

This was written 3 years ago, and the author's prediction hasn't come true yet, but I still wouldn't bet against it. He thinks that Facebook will die (or diminish) for one of the reasons all the other social networking sites that preceded it have: these social networks grow too large, include too many people you'd rather not be in touch with and are very difficult to cull.

Quote:

"It's socially awkward to refuse to add someone to your friends list -- but removing someone from your friend-list is practically a declaration of war. The least-awkward way to get back to a friends list with nothing but friends on it is to reboot: create a new identity on a new system and send out some invites."

Simon Willard 10-06-2010 12:37 AM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 181911)
So as I understand it you don't really accept the idea that there are such things as visionaries?

I am a visionary. I envision flying cars running on micro-fusion-reactors. I envision office walls covered with thin LCD displays that show all my work notes. I envision hands-free typing via brain waves. Undergound supersonic city-to-city trains that operate in evacuated tunnels. Space elevators on graphene tracks(*).

But I have not yet completed any of these tasks. We call people who succeed "visionary". It's a misnomer. We should call them successful. Edison was successful. He tried 200 different filament materials for his light bulb before testing tungsten. Was tungsten a visionary choice? I don't think so.

I don't deny the existence of inspiration or cleverness, but genius is 90% perspiration.



(*) See today's Nobel Prize in Physics

Unit 10-06-2010 12:44 AM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Did I detect a tinge of jealousy or envy in Bob's tone of voice when speaking abt another "internet visionary"? :-)

Don Zeko 10-06-2010 12:45 AM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by operative (Post 181873)
Sheesh, Bob isn't skeptical enough for you? :p

Bob was pretty skeptical of whether or not Zuckerberg is the messianic figure that David seems to think he is, but less so about the actual significance of Facebook. I'm pretty sure that Facebook will make it much easier for millions of people to keep track of their various acquaintances. What I haven't been convinced of is that it will actually erode the power of authoritarian states or fundamentally change the way we communicate to and relate with each other, or do any of the amazing things that I've been assured it will do.

P.S.: While I'm being a new media skeptic, fuck Twitter.

uncle ebeneezer 10-06-2010 12:59 AM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
So am I the only FB holdout here?

uncle ebeneezer 10-06-2010 01:01 AM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
The biggest problem I've heard about the movie is that not only are the details of the FB story poorly matched to the history, but that it created a relatively fictional view of Harvard at the given time.

[added: I asked a buddy who was at Harvard for his take and I found his response interesting]

Quote:

Interesting piece -- thanks for passing it along. I tend to agree with the author. I haven't seen the movie, but so much of that "blazers & elbow patches" life was either some we joked about ironically or confined to the final clubs, which were on the periphery of undergrad life. Some people aspired to join and party at them, but for the most part, campus life was so active with student groups -- e.g., varsity and intramural athletics, drama, a capella, ethnic organizations, publications -- that it was a much more emotionally diverse place than the stuffy bastion of privilege icon that keeps showing up in movies. Those people were certainly there, but it never really registered on my radar, except to the extent that I felt excluded from certain social scenes as not sufficiently literary-minded, or not sufficiently talented in/devoted to whatever the particular artistic or other pursuit that defined the circle.

If anything, I think that because Internet/computer tech was quickly becoming king while I was there (I started in fall 1995, and we were the first class assigned email accounts upon arrival), things took on a much more meritocratic approach pretty quickly. We were also the first incoming-sophomores who were totally randomized into upperclass houses, without the ability to select where we lived. This definitely had the effect of further eroding the more old school vibes that were associated with each of the upperclass houses (e.g., the preppy house, the jock house, the artsy/gay house, the Asian house, etc.).

Wonderment 10-06-2010 01:02 AM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

If Einstein had not been born, someone else would have explained the Photoelectric Effect, and someone else would have explained Relativistic Physics. If Gates has not been born, someone else would have produced a Windows-like operating system, maybe one with fewer problems that would have closed off the Apple window of opportunity.
It seems to me there's a important qualitative distinction to be drawn between an Einstein and a Zuckerman. Ditto for comparing Darwin to Steve Jobs, or Bill Gates to Karl Marx.

Yes, things would have been figured out in physics without Einstein, but he was still an extraordinary mind with a much more legitimate and profound claim to being a visionary than the Facebook dude.

The people without whom our world would be different tend to be the great creative geniuses: Shakespeare, Cervantes, Picasso. No one would have written Hamlet, if Shakespeare never lived.

Most politicians are fungible, I think. I don't buy Great Man/Woman theory in politics. I do think of Gandhi as a political genius -- a combination of intellectual and artist (his medium was India and dying colonialism).

I suppose there's also a kind of "evil genius" in the sense of a person whose creative energy makes the world a far worse place: Hitler or Bin Laden, for example.

nikkibong 10-06-2010 01:03 AM

Re: The Social Diavlog (Robert Wright & David Kirkpatrick)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer (Post 181919)
So am I the only FB holdout here?

no

Starwatcher162536 10-06-2010 01:08 AM

Wikipedia > Facebook
 
I'd rather have a diavlog over Wikipedia. All Facebook is good for is letting my ex-girlfriends get into contact with my wife way to easily and having people get irritated at me because it takes me weeks or months to respond to them.

...and finally; No, I don't care that you just went to the movies or walked your dog.


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