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-   -   Science Saturday: The Enlightenment Country (Chris Mooney & Jonathan Moreno) (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=7245)

Ocean 12-22-2011 09:30 PM

Re: Chris Mooney & Jonathan Moreno
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Baz (Post 235284)
I'm getting a little confused about you're position here Ocean. You're for decriminalization of cannabis use, which means anybody can use it without fear of prosecution, which means all those poor and vulnerable communities will have full access to cannabis, but without the programs that "might" come about from legalization and regulation.

Don't forget about the revenues that would be generated from legalization and regulation. Undoubtedly a high tax would be placed on cannabis if it were legalized and regulated so there will be more resources available even if the resources were not diverted from the drug war to programs to educate etc.

You're position doesn't help anyone as far as I can see Ocean...it's just "cannabis does damage to some people" "lets hope people just stop using it" therefore...

Your position doesn't help much either. I don't appreciate your misparaphrasing what I said or what my position is. I didn't say "let's hope people just stop using it". And I don't think I can continue repeating the same over and over. I'll just reiterate that my main point here is that medical use of marijuana is a very poor argument for its legalization.

As usual, I have to wonder what motivates people like you to go on this topic so tenaciously. Would you like to share with us?

Otherwise, let's move on, Baz.

Ocean 12-22-2011 11:04 PM

Re: Chris Mooney & Jonathan Moreno
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 235282)
Just in the nick of time: a new Kleiman diavlog on drugs. Haven't listened yet, but the topic headings are already making my blood boil.

I didn't know that a pacifist's blood could boil...

Wonderment 12-22-2011 11:15 PM

Re: Chris Mooney & Jonathan Moreno
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 235291)
I didn't know that a pacifist's blood could boil...

Kleiman's carrot-stick (mostly stick, i.e., negative reinforcement) approach to users drives me a little crazy, but it is well-balanced by Pollack's more patient-centered, treatment-first approach. I'll be interested in your thoughts.

Ocean 12-22-2011 11:25 PM

Re: Chris Mooney & Jonathan Moreno
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderment (Post 235292)
Kleiman's carrot-stick (mostly stick, i.e., negative reinforcement) approach to users drives me a little crazy, but it is well-balanced by Pollack's more patient-centered, treatment-first approach. I'll be interested in your thoughts.

I'll tell you after I have the chance to listen to the discussion carefully.

Generally speaking Kleiman's schtick has always been to be consistent with enforcement of rules, which is a basic principle of behavior modification. Inconsistency, excessive lenience, tend to reinforce bad behavior instead of the desired behavior. His argument is out of common sense.

But, again, I have to listen to this diavlog before saying anything meaningful.

Baz 12-23-2011 08:59 PM

Re: Chris Mooney & Jonathan Moreno
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 235288)
Your position doesn't help much either. I don't appreciate your misparaphrasing what I said or what my position is. I didn't say "let's hope people just stop using it". And I don't think I can continue repeating the same over and over. I'll just reiterate that my main point here is that medical use of marijuana is a very poor argument for its legalization.

As usual, I have to wonder what motivates people like you to go on this topic so tenaciously. Would you like to share with us?

Otherwise, let's move on, Baz.

One problem I have experience with and feel it could be addressed through regulation is that certain strains of cannabis are much more psychoactive than others because of the high THC vs CBD content. CBD, if I remember correctly, has an antipsychotic effect, where as THC is the opposite. But young people who are experimenting for the first time haven't got a clue about this.

Most of the "medical strains" that are being bred by professional breeders are bred for their "high CBD content" and thus give the user the medicinal relief they seek without the psychoactive or euphoric high which is problematic for some people.

The Dutch government just recently announced a ban on strains that have levels of THC over 15%, these strains are now classed the same as cocaine or heroin.

But we could go on like this forever so lets move on...

And Happy Christmas.

Ocean 12-23-2011 09:13 PM

Re: Chris Mooney & Jonathan Moreno
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Baz (Post 235326)
One problem I have experience with and feel it could be addressed through regulation is that certain strains of cannabis are much more psychoactive than others because of the high THC vs CBD content. CBD, if I remember correctly, has an antipsychotic effect, where as THC is the opposite. But young people who are experimenting for the first time haven't got a clue about this.

Most of the "medical strains" that are being bred by professional breeders are bred for their "high CBD content" and thus give the user the medicinal relief they seek without the psychoactive or euphoric high which is problematic for some people.

The Dutch government just recently announced a ban on strains that have levels of THC over 15%, these strains are now classed the same as cocaine or heroin.

But we could go on like this forever so lets move on...

And Happy Christmas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 235164)
And in addition there seems to be confusion between advocating to legalize marijuana, the plant itself, to be smoked/ingested like it is for recreational use, and the medical use of substances that are derived from the most active components of the plant. Those two are very different. The medical use of substances derived from marijuana isn't being questioned here at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 235182)
Baz, this topic has been overly discussed in previous threads. From a medical perspective there are significant risks related to the use of this drug, and the alleged medical benefits can be better achieved by isolating and purifying the active compounds like it's done with many other medications.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 235207)

... But leave medical use separate. The medical uses can be easily made available to even a greater degree of effectiveness by isolating the active compounds.

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 235229)
The evidence that cannabis has some medical use only tells me that it's a good idea to identify what active components have medical properties, so that they can be used as medication, minimizing the possibility of other unintended uses or toxicities.

Yes, let's move on.

Happy Holidays!

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_2_99.gif

Baz 12-23-2011 09:28 PM

Re: Chris Mooney & Jonathan Moreno
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 235328)
Yes, let's move on.

Happy Holidays!

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_2_99.gif

These compounds aren't patentable as far as I know and "Big Pharma" want patents.

Ocean 12-23-2011 09:47 PM

Re: Chris Mooney & Jonathan Moreno
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Baz (Post 235331)
These compounds aren't patentable as far as I know and "Big Pharma" want patents.

NIDA (National Institute on Drug Abuse) supports research in this area. The commercialization of findings and production by Big Pharma is the way the US system is set up and that piece is separate from the usefulness and validity of the research.


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