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Bloggingheads 09-03-2008 12:36 PM

Palinpalooza
 

graz 09-03-2008 01:03 PM

Re: Palinpalooza
 
Smoke em if ya got um

graz 09-03-2008 01:10 PM

Re: Palinpalooza
 
Eli coins a phrase

PaulL 09-03-2008 01:15 PM

Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin
 
Or would she say "swiftboat"?
NYT -- Front page Palin story was incorrect
Quote:

The chairwoman of an Alaskan political party that advocates a vote on the state's secession from the union said Tuesday that she had been mistaken when she said Gov. Sarah Palin was a member of the group.

A front-page story in The New York Times on Tuesday and articles in other news media reported that Ms. Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party for two years in the 1990's.

Markos 09-03-2008 01:22 PM

Re: Palinpalooza
 
I think McCain must have known about the daughter's pregnancy beforehand, because the only way he could not have known would have been if Sarah Palin would have intentionally neglected to mention it in their lengthy meeting in Arizona. Because she would have had to have known it was something McCain needed to know. And if she had concealed it from McCain until after the announcement, I think McCain - (who is known for not being good at concealing his emotions) - would have been enraged when he found out.
And we have not seen any evidence of McCain trying to conceal rage toward his running mate. We've only seen a love fest between them.

graz 09-03-2008 01:24 PM

Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulL (Post 89559)
Or would she say "swiftboat"?
NYT -- Front page Palin story was incorrect

Her husband was a member, she created a video in support of the organization. She may support the principle of succession. We will get the chance to find out. Oh wait... locked down media control is in effect.

graz 09-03-2008 01:32 PM

Juno/Juneau
 
Eli: You employed an interesting pop culture reference, but it is off in an important way. Juno (not named after the city) has no intention of keeping the child or marrying her teen dalliance. What did conservatives support other than the fact that she didn't abort? Granted, that is no small thing... but it doesn't align with the "family values" voters.

handle 09-03-2008 01:37 PM

Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulL (Post 89559)
Or would she say "swiftboat"?
NYT -- Front page Palin story was incorrect

Ha Ha! how does it feel to get a dose of smmmeeeeaaar!
Did you watch her taped address to the AIP convention? Can you say super friendly? Why in hell would she take the time to make that video, and give those fringies the time of day? This is not over, any more than the creepy Obama smears are..

Gordonggekko 09-03-2008 01:41 PM

Re: Palinpalooza
 
Birth control doesn't work perfectly, and even those who know better sometimes get in trouble. A certain former North Carolina Senator can discuss this at some length.

It is hilarious to see all these people think that women need to stay home to take care of the family. You've come a long way baby!

DUI was more than 20 years ago... what was Obama doing in the early 80s? He would never have been committing a felony or anything, would he have? Oh, wait.

Further, there are SERIOUS fights over the use of Eskimo. Heather is unfortunately in the bad middle of understanding,and totally screwed up. Most people who used to be known as Eskimo want to be called Inuit, and they are principally in Canada. The Yupik, of whom Todd's family is a member, prefer to be called Eskimo.

Thanks Heather for showing the ignorance and misogyny of the left! Bwhahaha.

Gordonggekko 09-03-2008 01:43 PM

Re: Juno/Juneau
 
Actually, it does. They want people to choose life, through marriage and keeping the child, or adoption.

bkjazfan 09-03-2008 01:51 PM

Re: Palinpalooza
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graz (Post 89557)

And don't forget to field strip it when you finish.

John

handle 09-03-2008 01:52 PM

Re: Juno/Juneau
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graz (Post 89563)
Eli: You employed an interesting pop culture reference, but it is off in an important way. Juno (not named after the city) has no intention of keeping the child or marrying her teen dalliance. What did conservatives support other than the fact that she didn't abort? Granted, that is no small thing... but it doesn't align with the "family values" voters.

It might resonate with them though, I'm sure many of them have experienced first hand, or known others who have been there.
I feel sorry for the girl, imagine having this thrust into the national spotlight. Is it true her mother didn't tell them why the were going to Ohio? I'm having trouble weeding through all the Palin buzz...

graz 09-03-2008 01:52 PM

Re: Juno/Juneau
 
I should have kept my focus on Eli's misuse of the Juno example. It wasn't intended to be a definitive point.
I agree with your point that adoption is in keeping with a family values agenda.

What is all to conveniently glossed over is the merits of abstinence only versus sex ed that includes actual sex.

handle 09-03-2008 01:55 PM

Re: Juno/Juneau
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordonggekko (Post 89566)
Actually, it does. They want people to choose life, through marriage and keeping the child, or adoption.

Good point, Wall street. (sorry)
It strikes me as odd, however that they don't reinforce the "life" thing by doing more for the adopters and keepers. At the very least, it would add credibility to the ideological stance.

PaulL 09-03-2008 01:56 PM

Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin
 
Great job trying to move the goalposts.
The Heather/progressives denounce Palin as a member of an extremist party and when it turns out they were wrong. They scream But she has ties to the AIP.

As Professor Juan Cole might say: “It is one of those hoaxes that bespeaks a reality.”


Quote:

locked down media control is in effect.
Only if Bill Ayres is in charge of the AIP.

graz 09-03-2008 01:59 PM

Re: Juno/Juneau
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by handle (Post 89568)
I'm having trouble weeding through all the Palin buzz...

Well we are flying nearly blind. And it's an interesting story beyond the political ramifications. I don't have a great desire to trash the family members, but would love to see our friend John M. pay a price.

uncle ebeneezer 09-03-2008 01:59 PM

Re: Palinpalooza
 
Heather just brought up the point that I was going to mention. The MSM has already decided on their narrative that Palin isn't qualified. Every mistake that Palin makes will just be confirmation of that narrative. This will have blowback from the GOP with their "this is just the typical liberal media" but I think the focus on her knowledge (lack of) will resonate in people's minds. If she performs perfectly and knocks every question out of the park, then it will be a different story, but that is not the most likely scenario. Mistakes happen, and there seems to be a lot of on-the-job training that takes place during a major electoral campaign.

Nice! Eli just mistakenly said "the gang of 12" referring to the Congressional deal-makers. The first part of our global-dominance plan is proceeding as planned (diabolical hand-rubbing smile.)

handle 09-03-2008 02:01 PM

Re: Palinpalooza
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordonggekko (Post 89565)
DUI was more than 20 years ago... what was Obama doing in the early 80s? He would never have been committing a felony or anything, would he have? Oh, wait.

I agree this is a non issue, just like Cindy's past opiate problems. I'm sure if Michele had similar issues, the GOP would consider them "hands off"... right?

razib 09-03-2008 02:02 PM

Yupik ARE NOT Inuit
 
heather hulbert corrected eli lake that todd palin is part *inuit*, not *eskimo*. actually, heather is wrong
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yupik

the yupik are distinct from the *inuit* peoples to their east and into canada. one may call the yupik eskimo because that term traditionally encompassed the peoples of western alaska, who are not inuit, and the inuit as well (it is the eskimo-aleut language family after all). my understanding is that the inuit do object to the term eskimo, especially in kanada, but the yupik of western and central alaska do not.

KEEP YOUR NATIVE PEOPLES STRAIGHT! *POWER TO THE FIRST NATIONS!!!!*

Exeus99 09-03-2008 02:05 PM

Ouch!
 
Now that's a brush-off that stings!

graz 09-03-2008 02:07 PM

Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin
 
Are you confident that all and everything we need to know about her politics and associations is available?
Do you agree that we (citizens) have a right to examine the record?
Are you going to hold us (the peeps again) responsible for overzealous journalism?
In regard to your point. The initial reports placed her as a member. A later retraction by the AIP secretary was at fault for the overstatement. I feel your pain.

thprop 09-03-2008 02:10 PM

The power of AIPAC
 
Sarah Palin's meeting with Phyllis Schlafly's Republican National Coalition for Life was canceled. Since the announcement, Palin has been put under wraps. Except to meet with AIPAC.

MSNBC
Ha'aretz

But there is no Israel Lobby.

graz 09-03-2008 02:11 PM

Re: Ouch!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Exeus99 (Post 89577)
Now that's a brush-off that stings!

At least she was suave about it.
She was also smart to recognize the trap Eli was setting.
Seriously though, Eli also has great chemistry with Matthew Lee.

handle 09-03-2008 02:16 PM

Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulL (Post 89572)
Great job trying to move the goalposts.

Thanks! But as a member of the smear party (I assume?), you probably know, damage done! And it will never go away...
I despise this crap actually, but I don't have a problem giving back some the faux sanctimony of the GOP. You guys have been hammering the Obama's, now it's your turn.
Do the thing where the "conservative" turns on a dime from aggressor to victim, or did we just witness that?

handle 09-03-2008 02:17 PM

Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graz (Post 89578)
I feel your pain.

Me too! owww!

thprop 09-03-2008 04:06 PM

Re: The power of AIPAC
 
AIPAC is the guts of the Israel Lobby. I just want to know why is AIPAC the only group Palin has met with? She has not even met with any core groups of the Republican base - even cancelling meetings with Phyllis Schlafly. It is evidence of how American politics and foreign policy are screwed up by Israel.

PaulL 09-03-2008 04:19 PM

How could Mccain have abused Palin like that?
 
I love Heather's argument that Mccain put Palin in a difficult situation by naming her VP.
Palin could have refused.
Maybe Heather is using the feminist standard.
A young woman who gets pregnant may not be capable of raising a child and must have abortion/reproductive rights available.
If the young woman keeps the child, the capabilities of the young man who got her pregnant to provide child support are not important and men have no reproductive rights.

That and Heather being elitist by saying that Palin has no idea how hard politics can be outside of Alaska and how she will not be able to handle it.

brucds 09-03-2008 04:28 PM

Guys - go easy on PaulL
 
He's just concerned about fairness and truth. Really. Just like Palin's lawyer who has expressed concern that "Troopergate" will turn into the kind of abusive investigation run by Kenneth Starr. The sincerity of these people is palpable. You're implying they're whiners. If you want to see a whiner, check out Hillary who was just a whiner when she complained about sexism in the media. I know that because presumptive-VPILF Palin told me. PaulL is just offended by the degradation of our political discourse.

graz 09-03-2008 04:31 PM

Re: How could Mccain have abused Palin like that?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulL (Post 89603)
I love Heather's argument that Mccain put Palin in a difficult situation by naming her VP.
Palin could have refused.

Yes she could have. But who would. You might actually be as qualified as she is. Would you refuse?
Instead of putting words in Heather's mouth. Why don't you argue an affirmative point and defend the choice. Or at least offer a prayer for the family. Heather was quite sympathetic to the potential pitfalls, even if her interests are vested.

Wonderment 09-03-2008 04:33 PM

Palin is dangerous: ignore her
 
Keep the focus on McCain -- reckless, radical, opportunistic and -- above all -- a warmonger.

Eli had the right answer to Heather: "She hunts, she fishes, her mooseburgers are delicious."

If the Repubs can make that folklore the dominant narrative and the Dems. take the Palin bait and make her a martyr, Obama will be hurt among the voters he most needs.

thouartgob 09-03-2008 04:41 PM

Murphy and Noonan, Sexist Scum !!! via You Tube
 
From: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/212920.php

direct link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrG8w4bb3kg

Well ya know Obama's fiendish minions are everywhere.

Username 09-03-2008 04:45 PM

Re: Yupik ARE NOT Inuit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by razib (Post 89576)
heather hulbert corrected eli lake that todd palin is part *inuit*, not *eskimo*. actually, heather is wrong
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yupik

the yupik are distinct from the *inuit* peoples to their east and into canada. one may call the yupik eskimo because that term traditionally encompassed the peoples of western alaska, who are not inuit, and the inuit as well (it is the eskimo-aleut language family after all). my understanding is that the inuit do object to the term eskimo, especially in kanada, but the yupik of western and central alaska do not.

KEEP YOUR NATIVE PEOPLES STRAIGHT! *POWER TO THE FIRST NATIONS!!!!*

This is what airheaded political correctness routinely leads to--Hulbert doesn't even know what she is talking about or why "eskimo" is an offensive word to anyone, but she feels serenely confident in correcting anyone who uses it. Yes, brilliant diavloger, perhaps in her next appearance she can tell us about the word "niggardly" and its etymology.

Username 09-03-2008 04:47 PM

Re: How could Mccain have abused Palin like that?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graz (Post 89606)
Yes she could have. But who would. You might actually be as qualified as she is. Would you refuse?
Instead of putting words in Heather's mouth. Why don't you argue an affirmative point and defend the choice. Or at least offer a prayer for the family. Heather was quite sympathetic to the potential pitfalls, even if her interests are vested.

Yes, I agree, Heather's statement would be just as likely to be made if the veep pick were a man with a pregnant daughter, there's absolutely nothing sexist about your or Heather's argument.

uncle ebeneezer 09-03-2008 04:53 PM

Re: Juno/Juneau
 
On the Bristol Palin issue/discussion, for once in my life I actually agree with Byron York:

“If the Obamas had a 17 year-old daughter who was unmarried and pregnant by a tough-talking black kid, my guess is if that they all appeared onstage at a Democratic convention and the delegates were cheering wildly, a number of conservatives might be discussing the issue of dysfunctional black families.”

I'll take it a step further. "If the Obamas had a 17 year-old daughter who was unmarried and pregnant"...you don't even need to finish the sentence. It would be the ONLY thing being talked about on the news 24/7. It would speak to his family values, his religion, his character, his judgement etc., etc.

AemJeff 09-03-2008 04:59 PM

Re: Yupik ARE NOT Inuit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Username (Post 89610)
...airheaded political correctness...

You don't try very hard, do you? This in reference to HH? Who would you have in her place, Althouse? Malkin?

Wonderment 09-03-2008 05:58 PM

France light years ahead of USA on women's rights
 
The French Minister of Justice (Attorney General?), 43-year-old Rachida Dati, who is of Algerian-Moroccan descent, announced her pregnancy today. She declined to say who the father is.

Could anyone imagine a woman in politics being free to do that in the USA?

thouartgob 09-03-2008 06:20 PM

Re: Juno/Juneau
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle ebeneezer (Post 89613)

I'll take it a step further. "If the Obamas had a 17 year-old daughter who was unmarried and pregnant"...you don't even need to finish the sentence. It would be the ONLY thing being talked about on the news 24/7. It would speak to his family values, his religion, his character, his judgement etc., etc.

Imagine the horror of the anti-choice crowd if Michelle waited hours to go to a hospital after her "water" started to leak ( late term abortion attempt ) or Michelle in a picture with a high powered rifle ( Mrs. Ayers )

Wonderment 09-03-2008 06:22 PM

Make love not war -- the other Palin kid
 
It's obvious to everyone that teenagers have sex.

I'm sure I'm the only person who posts on Bheads who has actually had unprotected sex, but hard as it is believe, it's not entirely unheard of among homo sapiens sapiens.

In other words, even the best of parents who provide the best sex education may have to deal with a pregnant teenage daughter. Sex happens.

The Palins are, needless to say, right to embrace and support their daughter and the boyfriend in their pregnancy and to celebrate the upcoming birth of their grandchild. Sure, it's not easy to have a kid at 17, but the Palins certainly seem to be the kind of people who make the best of the hand that was dealt them.

Not so good on the parenting of the other kid, however.

Track Palin was recruited out of high school and "on track" for Iraq just a few months after his 18th birthday.

Typically, when high school students sign up right after graduation, they have been seduced and propagandized at age 15, 16 or 17 by predatory recruiters on high school campuses.

In fact, they often sign DEP (delayed enlistment program) contracts as minors and are subjected to steady indoctrination and social coercion while they remain in high school. The Pentagon spends billions annually on marketing war to children.

Counseling an impressionable young boy to go to war is reprehensible. I hope Sarah P. was not complicit in this, and I hope she doesn't end up like Cindy Sheehan and so many other moms, guilt-ridden for not having done more to keep their children out of Bush's war of aggression.

Xelgaex 09-03-2008 06:43 PM

Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulL (Post 89559)
Or would she say "swiftboat"?
NYT -- Front page Palin story was incorrect

Isn't it possible that she simply hadn't seen the corrections yet? The first correction to the story I found was on Mother Jones around four o'clock the same day as the diavlog was recorded.

Maybe there's something earlier I didn't see, but I'd give her the benefit of the doubt.

look 09-03-2008 06:52 PM

Re: Heather Hurlburt smears Sarah Palin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelgaex (Post 89618)
Isn't it possible that she simply hadn't seen the corrections yet? The first correction to the story I found was on Mother Jones around four o'clock the same day as the diavlog was recorded.

Maybe there's something earlier I didn't see, but I'd give her the benefit of the doubt.

I agree. The first time I saw it corrected was last night by Olbermann, at about 11:30 ET.


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