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Bloggingheads 07-22-2008 10:02 PM

Obamamania: The World Tour
 

graz 07-22-2008 10:51 PM

Press examines self and finds itself wanting
 
Except of course, Ana and Matthew are referring to the other press... Not themselves.
The same Ana - that fell for the McCain is my friend shtick. Why is she is off that bus? The love is still clear. But full disclosure: her politics are more aligned with Obama.
Matthew finding that McCain must go negative. As if he isn't already.
And let's try to paint Obama as Bush. Frikkin' "hacktastic" Matthew.
The snarky tone throughout could be read as jealousy for not getting the favored journalist spot on the trip.

piscivorous 07-22-2008 10:57 PM

Iraq with out the surge
 
Lucianne gets it it about right.

piscivorous 07-22-2008 11:09 PM

Iraq Status of Forces projectons
 
It does seem strange that the Iraqi status of forces projections don't agree with the 2010 deadline. (from memory) 2012 ground forces complete with significant intelligence and logistics support to make internal security possible but not sufficient air assets for over watch and support. 2015 sufficient air assets for over watch and support for internal security First two jet aircraft units come on line. 2018 Air force asset acquisition complete, ground forces able to provide independent internal security and assisted external security. 2020 Fully capable of sustaining both internal and external security. 2010 I don't think so!

piscivorous 07-22-2008 11:13 PM

Comprimise
 
Something like Kennedy-Johnson.

threep 07-22-2008 11:31 PM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
I hate to derail another thread with this, but Mickey is getting SO HAMMERED right now.

claymisher 07-22-2008 11:38 PM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
"The media: It's always, ALWAYS about us."

newdome 07-23-2008 12:09 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
The Convergence of the Airheads
It is absolutely amazing to me how Ana Marie could have been hired by Time in the "serious position" she occupies in that organization. The few times I have had the opportunity to see or listen to her in these types of forum, I have a vague idea that I am in complete agreement with her politically. But I also have the nagging feeling of embarrassment that this is the best the bookers and producers in these forums can do to defend that ideological positions? It is quite sad really.

sp3akthetruth 07-23-2008 12:14 AM

Re: Press examines self and finds itself wanting
 
Watching Ana gush over McCain is enough to drive me crazy. While claims her politics are more in line with Obama is almost laughable.

graz 07-23-2008 12:21 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by newdome (Post 84511)
The Convergence of the Airheads
It is absolutely amazing to me how Ana Marie could have been hired by Time in the "serious position" she occupies in that organization. The few times I have had the opportunity to see or listen to her in these types of forum, I have a vague idea that I am in complete agreement with her politically. But I also have the nagging feeling of embarrassment that this is the best the bookers and producers in these forums can do to defend that ideological positions? It is quite sad really.

Relax... Your ideology is still safe, whatever it might be. She didn't attempt any explications. Her role is that of witty and pithy observer of the "process" or intersection of media and politics. Matthew is a straight up hack and Ana is on a privileged perch without any particular insight. It has to make you wonder why you consider it serious at all?

sp3akthetruth 07-23-2008 12:28 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
graz, considered what serious? you mean Time Inc.? Because I had to stop watching this diavlog, which is rare for me. I wish they'd bring someone like Joe Klein on, or someone else from Time, because it feels as though Ana never leaves her office since she can remain so in tuned to the man on the street through her blog comments.

graz 07-23-2008 12:40 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sp3akthetruth (Post 84514)
graz, considered what serious? you mean Time Inc.? Because I had to stop watching this diavlog, which is rare for me. I wish they'd bring someone like Joe Klein on, or someone else from Time, because it feels as though Ana never leaves her office since she can remain so in tuned to the man on the street through her blog comments.

The comment was directed to newdome and the implication that anyone should take her seriously - leaving Time Inc. aside. Just let your ears do the thinking.

This synchs with an earlier thread that requested greater influence in booking and commenter requests. Again, another woman and yet it seems like it is the same woman (practically). See ohcomeon in the "lipstick libertarians" thread.
I wouldn't wish for you to waste your time, but it gets worse as this diavlog regresses forward. These two cocksure members of the punditocracy treat one of the Presidential candidates as an object of ridicule. Mind you, through no fault of his. But rather, because of the way that their
industry fluffs itself. Go figure.

TwinSwords 07-23-2008 01:01 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
You have to hand it to Ana: She does nothing to conceal her contempt for Obama, and she makes no secret of her enormous emotional investment in McCain. It's clear she feels a very personal connection to him. And sympathy: she honestly looked depressed when ruminating on how unfair it all is. At least we know this much: She intends to invest all of her energy in helping him get elected.

Most interesting moment in the few minutes I watched: When Ana expressed utter dismay at the ignorance of the public that actually believes McCain would be a 3rd Bush term, when obviously it's Obama who is promising more of the same.

By the way, that was pure class how Ana left thousands of viewers sitting around waiting while she checked her phone, 3 times in the few minutes I watched.

graz 07-23-2008 01:10 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 84517)
By the way, that was pure class how Ana left thousands of viewers sitting around waiting while she checked her phone, 3 times in the few minutes I watched.

We are legions, us viewers.

And... had to share that it was the dog groomer no less.
And further buried herself by wasting our time explaining that it was on mute but still, the vibration was distracting her.

Who's in charge of booking anyway?
Maybe it stands to reason that so-called adults that can do their day job and never get out of their pj's are always a bit suspect.

sp3akthetruth 07-23-2008 02:01 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinSwords (Post 84517)
Most interesting moment in the few minutes I watched: When Ana expressed utter dismay at the ignorance of the public that actually believes McCain would be a 3rd Bush term, when obviously it's Obama who is promising more of the same.

And to think candidates are actually running on platforms. I'm curious how many of Obama's items overlap with Bush, the compassionate conservative. It's probably the tax cuts for the wealthy. It could be the unilateral neo-con foreign policy. Did you know McCain doesn't even have a foreign policy link on his site? Sure, McCain has a link on Iraq, but that sort of tells you where McCain's priorities lie.

We obviously know where Ana's lie, and that's with those mean BBQ ribs she eat at his vacation house.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a president again that everything wasn't handed to him? It makes me miss the days of Bill Clinton, when candidates worked their way up, instead of marrying into it or being birthed into the "right" family.

nikkibong 07-23-2008 02:11 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
what do rudy guliani and ana marie cox have in common? let's dingalink to find out:

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/129...04:03&out=4:23

sleepyhead 07-23-2008 02:50 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Gotta love this from Ana Marie Cox at Time today:

"McCain has often said he'd rather "lose an election than lose a war," but I don't think he thought he'd be on the winning side of a war and lose the election anyway."

So her politics are supposedly aligned with Obama, yet when she sees two candidates, one of whom opposed the biggest foreign policy disaster of her lifetime, and one of whom supported it, she buys into the rhetoric of the one who supported it by saying that he is on the "winning side of a war." Give me a break. She may claim that her political sympathies are with Obama, but her personal sympathies are apparent.

It's amazing to me how much McCain has succeeded in changing the media narrative from the big question of "Which candidate was an enthusiastic supporter of the biggest mistake in recent American history, which led to the deaths of thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and strengthened the Iranian regime" to the smaller question of "Which candidate supported an escalation of troops from 130,000 to 150,000."

bjkeefe 07-23-2008 04:09 AM

Ugh
 
I started off watching this diavlog with the lowest of expectations -- the Vice President of the Choate Glee Club talking to the McCain Fluffer in Chief? Come on. Even so, whatever faint hopes I still held were quickly dashed.

I suppose I should be happy that Ana Marie let fly her belief that Obama is just like Hitler only nine minutes in -- made it that much easier to click stop.

I don't know what's been going on this week -- did all the smart bloggers start their August vacations early?

ohcomeon 07-23-2008 08:14 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sp3akthetruth (Post 84514)
graz, considered what serious? you mean Time Inc.? Because I had to stop watching this diavlog, which is rare for me. I wish they'd bring someone like Joe Klein on, or someone else from Time, because it feels as though Ana never leaves her office since she can remain so in tuned to the man on the street through her blog comments.

To that point - This is what Joe Klein has to say about McCain's recent accusation that Obama would be fine with losing a war to win an election:

This is the ninth presidential campaign I've covered. I can't remember a more scurrilous statement by a major party candidate. It smacks of desperation. It renews questions about whether McCain has the right temperament for the presidency. How sad.

ohcomeon 07-23-2008 08:19 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Yup, I haven't checked Slate yet but he was probably up all night checking "sources" and chasing down "facts" to save the country from Edwards' loose morals.

Just checked - he was.

harkin 07-23-2008 08:45 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Decent job AMC and MC - Two of the few willing to laugh at the hilarity of the Obama tap dance and his fawning apologists. You know you've got the left mad when they demand you be removed and replaced by Joe 'Stingray landing in Obama's boat' Klein.

And Ana Marie....please turn off your cel-phone before you start. Completely disrespectful not only to MC but also everyone watching. It was almost as bad as that pundit on Meet The Press who kept his phone on....what was his name??...oh yes, Joe Klein.

Very classy BJK - referring to AMC as McCain's oral service provider. Is this Kos or BhTV?

bjkeefe 07-23-2008 09:05 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by felcher (Post 84540)
Very classy BJK ...

Spare me your faux outrage.

Given her posing as a journalist, her non-stop promotion of McCain, and her comparison of Obama to Hitler, she's lucky that's all I called her.

Joel_Cairo 07-23-2008 09:49 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
I love this part from AMC:

McCain's best shot is to have as many children as possible die in combat

brucds 07-23-2008 09:59 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Remember when all Ana Marie talked about was ass-f---ing back at Wonkette ?

Somehow, compared to her current Time incarnation, she didn't seem like she was straining her journalistic credibility then.

brucds 07-23-2008 10:06 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
"My mother lives in France and people are, like, rioting to find out more about him."

"How many Americans are asking Andrea Mitchell's pissed off. I wonder what that should mean for me?"

"It makes him seem more like Bush than McCain ever was."

"If this were a Greek tragedy I'd expect something to come out of the sky and smite him or get shot in the heel or something...oh wait my phone is going off again."


I only listened to six minutes of this crap and already I want that part of my life back.

thouartgob 07-23-2008 10:45 AM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel_Cairo (Post 84547)

Quite the link. She seemed quite enraptured at that point point. ( "like OMG did you see him ... " )

In a previous diavlog I commented that at some point she was channeling David Broder now she is trying to muscle in on Mickey's territory ( I'll vote for the guy but geez what a jerk... ) next she'll be bashing unions and hitting on ann coulter. Pinkerton at least joined the campaign he liked :-) Maybe this was really just an interview for a new blog at the Weekly Standard called the Coxfiles.

More seriously I think she is right on Pawlenty but geez I would love to hear EXACTLY why Powell won't be VP ?? Maybe the same reason the election is closer than expected ??

On another note I think that the coverage that our diavloggers were kvetching about has little to do with ideology and er everything to do with reporters making money for their betters er uh higher-ups. Obama is a bankable attention getter and his coverage sells eyeballs. McCain WAS like that before he had to adjust his quotable quips to his new position as the ostensible head of the republican party. He has much less latitude to "speak his mind" as AMC would gush ( she also like Biden for the same reason at least )

Unlike BJK I did finish the diavlog ( I needed to stop for a while though to catch my breath ) ya didn't miss too much.

Larry Bird 07-23-2008 12:07 PM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Had to stop 10 minutes in. Ana needs a Mccain Kool-Aid detox. Like the other commenter said, how can she say her politics line up with Obama and say that "Mccain could win the war but still lose the election"? What does winning the war mean, Ana? She looks past to much in the name of friendship.

Clingon 07-23-2008 01:00 PM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
I respectfully disagree with many of the commentors here because I thought that this conversation was lively, balanced and objective. I'm frankly baffled that so many Obama supporters are incensed by what was said since both candidates received positive and negative assessments from Matt and Ana.

Are we not allowed to voice even the mildest criticism of Obama? That appears to be a very troubling overall trend and one that cannot last forever for any President. Also they are both correct that the race is still very close and could go either way. You'd think that Obama would have learned from the early months of the Clinton campaign that exerting an air of inevitability can backfire because there is a fine line between confidence and hubris, which is never an appealing trait.

I also agree that the debates will probably be a main deciding factor in this race.

thouartgob 07-23-2008 01:09 PM

McCain takes a stand against excessive press coverage.
 
http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/...uad_no_pre.php

Quote:

WILKES-BARRE, PA -- The one scheduled McCain press conference of the week has just been canceled, we are told. No word as to why. Grumble, grumble.

Why? Scheduling. Which is like answering "food" to "what did you eat for breakfast."

My bet is that the campaign much prefers local and regional interviews. Us national press folks will ask qualitatively different questions -- McCain v. the press, McCain v. history, McCain v. Obamania... The priority here in northern Pennsylvania's 10th Congressional district is on getting good local news coverage.
I guess McCain is just so frustrated with press that he wants to see other people for a while.


http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.c...D37A0A46319D2F

In response spurnned reporters go on rampages a al Death Race 2000. How many points for a 66 year old ??

Thus Spoke Elvis 07-23-2008 01:12 PM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brucds (Post 84549)
Remember when all Ana Marie talked about was ass-f---ing back at Wonkette ?

Yes, which is why I laughed out loud when I saw that one of the diavlog segments was titled "Matt and Ana Marie’s husband share the same fantasy."

I hate AMC, and make it a point to avoid reading or listening to her, as virtually everything I witnessed before tuning her out indicated that she had nothing insightful to say. I'm convinced that the reason she's in the positition she's in today is because male pundits think they have a chance to score with her. (That may seem rude, but AMC invited such comments when she began posting about her sex habits).

graz 07-23-2008 01:33 PM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clingon (Post 84568)
You'd think that Obama would have learned from the early months of the Clinton campaign that exerting an air of inevitability can backfire because there is a fine line between confidence and hubris, which is never an appealing trait.

Relating to this "balanced" diavlog, could you offer an example to make your case that Obama is responsible for "exerting an air of inevitability?" Is his popularity a potential hook for critics to hang a negative talking point? Sure, and you just did an ineffective job of it. Who is stopping you from complaining?
This was a press wankfest not a critique.

Clingon 07-23-2008 01:39 PM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Thus Spoke Elvis -- (That may seem rude, but AMC invited such comments when she began posting about her sex habits).
So your point is that because of this all of her observations/opinions on other subjects are suspect? I don't see the connection.

If you'd rather not watch her diavlogs, then you just shouldn't watch them. It's still a fairly free country last time I checked.

graz 07-23-2008 01:46 PM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thus Spoke Elvis (Post 84573)
I'm convinced that the reason she's in the positition she's in today is because male pundits think they have a chance to score with her. (That may seem rude, but AMC invited such comments when she began posting about her sex habits).

I see a brand of conservatism defining itself: You don't cross the line of decorum until the floodgates are open.
It was also evidenced in the Mickey is vindicated thread.
Conservatives (beware generalization) : Willing to go gutter... But not until provoked or invited. (just goading).

Thus Spoke Elvis 07-23-2008 01:49 PM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clingon (Post 84575)
So your point is that because of this all of her observations/opinions on other subjects are suspect?

Not at all. Rather, I've never observed AMC say anything so insightful as to jusitify her fame and position. So I presume that factors other than talent -- namely, her attractiveness to many male pundits and readers -- are the likely explanation for quick rise to prominence.

Thus Spoke Elvis 07-23-2008 01:52 PM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graz (Post 84578)
I see a brand of conservatism defining itself: You don't cross the line of decorum until the floodgates are open.
It was also evidenced in the Mickey is vindicated thread.
Conservatives (beware generalization) : Willing to go gutter... But not until provoked or invited. (just goading).

Actually, I think you're onto something there. The principle seems to be a distant relative of "eye for an eye" logic. When one transgression has occurred, it opens up the door for other transgressions to be taken.

graz 07-23-2008 01:59 PM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thus Spoke Elvis (Post 84581)
Not at all. Rather, I've never observed AMC say anything so insightful as to jusitify her fame and position. So I presume that factors other than talent -- namely, her attractiveness to many male pundits and readers -- are the likely explanation for quick rise to prominence.

Time also had an obligation to jump on the whole "internet thing." I'm guessing that the popularity of wonkette played the biggest part.

uncle ebeneezer 07-23-2008 02:36 PM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Looks like I picked the right week to quit BHTV. (I've been too busy to watch any).

A McCardle marathon, and now AMC and Matt...hopefully we'll get a good Bob/Mickey, UN and SciSat or else this might be "the week that time forgot."

Bob can we get a McWhorter/Chomsky (or Pinker) linguistics diavlog at some point?

Also I'd love to see Tony Horwitz (he's got a funny book about the Pilgrims out now). Maybe on a FreeWill episode.

thouartgob 07-23-2008 02:48 PM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clingon (Post 84568)
I respectfully disagree with many of the commentors here because I thought that this conversation was lively, balanced and objective. I'm frankly baffled that so many Obama supporters are incensed by what was said since both candidates received positive and negative assessments from Matt and Ana.

Are we not allowed to voice even the mildest criticism of Obama? That appears to be a very troubling overall trend and one that cannot last forever for any President. Also they are both correct that the race is still very close and could go either way. You'd think that Obama would have learned from the early months of the Clinton campaign that exerting an air of inevitability can backfire because there is a fine line between confidence and hubris, which is never an appealing trait.

I also agree that the debates will probably be a main deciding factor in this race.

Fair and Balanced as a Fox news item. I will say that earlier this year AMC had a better diavlog and one that was more balanced I would say:

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/8879

At this point I find that what was a whisp of affection for McCain earlier this year has gotten more substantial to the point where I really couldn't tell the difference between her and her expressly partisan diavlog partner.

On the other hand I find that the seemingly gender based ad hominum attacks on her try my liberal patience a bit. I don't see the same sexually charged venom tossed at Eli or Michael Goldfarb or even the Mickster. If there are tons of anal/oral stuff about Eli ... well let's not go there.

ps Also as a liberal , whatever harkin does with a straw in the privacy of his own home should not be ridiculed :-)

AemJeff 07-23-2008 03:32 PM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thouartgob (Post 84587)
On the other hand I find that the seemingly gender based ad hominum attacks on her try my liberal patience a bit. I don't see the same sexually charged venom tossed at Eli or Michael Goldfarb or even the Mickster. If there are tons of anal/oral stuff about Eli ... well let's not go there.

I don't get the hostility from the left toward her. I can understand discomfort from some folks on the right because of the Wonkette references to sodomy (even if from my lofty perch I tut-tut the attitude from afar http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif), but she's willing to be fairly frank about her feelings toward the candidates, and her function as journalist really seems to be kind of ironic and meta - a function she excels at IMHO.

graz 07-23-2008 03:44 PM

Re: Obamamania: The World Tour
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 84592)
I don't get the hostility from the left toward her...
but she's willing to be fairly frank about her feelings toward the candidates, and her function as journalist really seems to be kind of ironic and meta - a function she excels at IMHO.

When her irony and meta are media informed instead of grounded in the candidates themselves, the results rankle. Brendan's point about "Hitler" or the last portion of the diavlog when both participants speculate about Obama as a Vice-President free Unitary executive are baseless and partisan.

Would you mind fleshing out the aspects of her work you find excellent or is it just satisfying in an ironic sense?


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