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-   -   UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=1951)

Bloggingheads 07-12-2008 05:59 PM

UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 

Wonderment 07-12-2008 06:26 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Great get, Mark!!!

EuropeHere 07-12-2008 07:03 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Flippin' brilliant. How about heads from other European countries - France, Germany, Russia - in upcoming editions. This is really so excellent!

EuropeHere 07-12-2008 07:58 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Mark, you've pulled off a coup. Murphy might be British Foreign Minister one day. He's a smoothie.
Here he is, paraphrased, on Turkey: Of course Turkey must become an EU member state. It's a gradual process. Not now, of course. Or tomorrow. It's a radically changed Turkey we're talking about. Some day?
It takes a pro to talk like that with a straight face.

InJapan 07-12-2008 09:26 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Kudos to Mark for getting this guest.

On climate change - polls have consistently shown that the US electorate does not care enough about climate change to rank it highly among decision factors. For election purposes, climate change is just not that important in the US. While some notable politicians have made it their hallmark cause, even here in California local politics matters more. As such, in the US, "climate change" is more about show than substance.

This may be (one of many) differences between the US and European electorate.

On Turkey and the EU - this is one of the more interesting issues to watch from afar. If domestically Turkey turn towards a more religiously influenced politics, how would this influence the growth of various nationalistic and xenophobic groups within Europe?

Eastwest 07-12-2008 09:48 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Had to love his take on one of the most wacko of Bush's underlings: Bolton

Nice to get a perspective from someone representing a civilized country.

But, yeah, what a smoothie. Completely pleasant straight face the whole time, even after going to Utah. Wow.

EW

Mensch 07-12-2008 11:15 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastwest (Post 83289)
But, yeah, what a smoothie. Completely pleasant straight face the whole time, even after going to Utah. Wow.

EW

I was in Southern Utah recently -- Zions Nation Park, Arches, Bryce Canyon -- and came across numerous Europeans there -- especially Germans. They love that part of the country.

Baltimoron 07-12-2008 11:18 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Mr. Murphy's account of "public diplomacy" and the definition of the term in the FCO report was indeed, as EuropeHere says, "smooth". I am open to the notion of 'public diplomacy", but for many the practice smacks of propaganda. In a grad class, I reviewed Carnes Lord's Losing Hearts and Minds? Public Diplomacy and Strategic Influence in the Age of Terror. Lord defines public diplomacy as "..information across a broad spectrum...cultural affairs, and what I will call 'political action'." Lord associates public diplomacy with State Department and MSM activities, and also with its military twin, psychological operations, and both sides are part of a grand informational strategy.Lord suggests morea ctive outreach to NGOs, business groups, popular culture, and foreign diasporas, not just governments. Lord also associates public diplomacy with Nye's notion of "soft power".

It's interesting that the UK has at its disposal the BBC as part of its public diplomacy strategy, whereas Lord has to advocate the formation of a Cabinet-level Public Diplomacy organization with reforms in the Defense Department, to coordinate State and Defense informational campaigns. Yet, Radio Free Liberty is quite feeble. Al-Hurra has had notable problems establishing any credibility. Lord specifically uses the movies "Kingdom of Heaven" and "Munich" as examples of "inflammatory or disrespectful" portrayals of the Crusades.

Lord also connects public diplomacy to service to country, as much as military service.

Finally, I would offer an incident, and I would ask Mr. Murphy how he would handle it. In April, 2007, a South Korean immigrant killed over 30 students and professors at Virginia Tech. A Chicago Tribune reporter reported that the assailant was "Chinese" in an initial report. Beijing took umbrage and complained to the State Department for the perceived slur. Seoul also expressed its remorse and apologies, as did the South Korean emigre community in the US. Even I, as an expat, received apologies from employers, neighbors, and complete strangers. The Bush administration's first response occurred days later by participating in public ceremonies at VT. I think the State Department should have released a media packet to forestall the dissemination of erroneous information, express the government's opinion, and coordinate ambassadorial strategy, particularly in East Asia.

So, I would ask Mr. Murphy how in these situations the UK would coordinate its national efforts within the EU project. Also, what is his relationship with private media in the UK, and other countries?

Eastwest 07-13-2008 02:03 AM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mensch (Post 83297)
I was in Southern Utah recently -- Zions Nation Park, Arches, Bryce Canyon -- and came across numerous Europeans there -- especially Germans. They love that part of the country.

True, it's hard to fault the geographical landscape. As for the psychological landscape, your mileage may vary.... Or maybe they find the headspaces there strangely fascinating (sort of like when you go to the zoo). Maybe the next stop on the tour is the deep South.

EW

zeke60 07-13-2008 02:30 AM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
On Turkey and the EU: Turkey aspires to join the EU while its military continues to occupy 40% of Cyprus, a member of the EU, and refuses to recognize the legitimate government of the same country. Mr. Murphy fails to mention this bizarre phenomenon. Should that be understood to mean that Mr. Murphy sees no problem if one EU country occupies another and refuses to recognize its government? And surely Mr. Goldberg knows there are UN resolutions on record calling for Turkish withdrawal of their troops.

davidwade 07-13-2008 09:14 AM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Excellent interview. Will be posting link onto my blog.

emma m 07-13-2008 01:39 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
I have had the pleasure of seeing boggingheads for several months, i think is a fantastic project by which people all over the world get to hear what is happening in the USA, and world, from a point of view
that sound less manipulated than the media institutions, but toady's blog leaves me speechless, the intelligence in dialogue is just fantastic, and the the global theme is very refreshing
congratulations
Emma Molina

harkin 07-13-2008 01:58 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastwest (Post 83305)
True, it's hard to fault the geographical landscape. As for the psychological landscape, your mileage may vary.... Or maybe they find the headspaces there strangely fascinating (sort of like when you go to the zoo). Maybe the next stop on the tour is the deep South.
EW


One can only wonder if someone had described a trip to South Miami or Compton CA as 'like when you go to the zoo'


Quote:

Originally Posted by Eastwest (Post 83305)
Had to love his take on one of the most wacko of Bush's underlings: Bolton

Nice to get a perspective from someone representing a civilized country.

I'm pretty sure Mr Bolton, if he was a Brit politician, would have fought for allowing the people to vote on the Lisbon Treaty ratification, something Mr Murphy and his ilk told the citizens (of a 'civilized country') was not their right.

Here's a less flattering voice but one that should be heard:

"Jim Murphy the UK Europe Minister was a disgrace this morning on the Today programme. He declared the corpse living, and that ratification would continue even though the rules state unanimity is needed before it can come into being."

and this is a nice column on Mr Murphy being the 'minister for selling the unsellable':

"I ask how he [Murphy]'s spending the half-term recess: constituency work. ĎIím going back to my old school, where 42 per cent of the pupils are now Polish. Next year the majority will be Polish.í But doesnít this just sum up Labourís failure, I ask, that one in four men in Glasgow is living off benefits and yet so many immigrants find work so easily? It is like lighting a tinderbox. He reels off facts, figures and explanations: the complexity of the problem and why he believes Labour is working."


Would love to see a discussion between Mr Murphy and Douglas Murray on the EU.

Namazu 07-13-2008 02:01 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Good get. Now how about conducting an actual interview instead of just tickling his belly? Larry King could have done a better job drawing out hard information.

thprop 07-13-2008 02:12 PM

Need to build some audience here
 
I have been a big fan of UN Plaza and Mark since its start on BHtv. Mark's debut was on May 3, 2007, but I think his December 30, 2007, diavlog with John Prendergast of the Enough Project was the first to be called UN Plaza.

So much of the focus is on the presidential election - and the horse race aspect. It is great to get an informed view of the rest of the world. I hope that getting Jim Murphy to appear on BHtv is just the start of what we will see on UN Plaza.

UN Plaza does not get the number of comments it deserves. I hope that is because people are viewing and taking it all in - not that people are not watching.

So I hope Mark gets more big name guests - but don't skimp on Matt Lee. UN Plaza needs his reports from the bowels of the UN.

deebee 07-13-2008 02:15 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Quote:

Quote from In Japan: On climate change - polls have consistently shown that the US electorate does not care enough about climate change to rank it highly among decision factors.
I agree that it should be the No. 1 issue because it goes to the very core of our existence. Jim Murphy's comment about how those "without shoes" aren't likely to care much about future planetary conditions probably applies to the US albeit in less stark terms.

The fact that so many Americans are having to address so many immediate concerns right now regarding keeping hearth and home together pushes climate change way down the list. If there was less turmoil in other areas, I do believe that the message might be more readily heard and taken more seriously. At least I would like to think so... Ironically as the diavloggers intimated, addressing those concerns could easily help our economic woes with the development of new technologies here but I fear that the rest of the world has a real head start on us.

bjkeefe 07-13-2008 02:18 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
deebee:

Nice to see we can completely agree about some things.

bjkeefe 07-13-2008 02:23 PM

Re: Need to build some audience here
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thprop (Post 83352)
UN Plaza does not get the number of comments it deserves. I hope that is because people are viewing and taking it all in - not that people are not watching.

At the risk of repeating myself, thprop, since I think I said this in another one of these threads, I'll state that I often don't comment on the UN diavlogs because I'm out of my depth. I am always informed by what I hear, but it's like being in a brand new class for the first time: I don't have enough coming in to be able to comment intelligently.

(Leaves self wide open for snark.)

I suspect at least a few others feel the same way.

deebee 07-13-2008 02:26 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 83355)
deebee:

Nice to see we can completely agree about some things.

I told you that we probably had a lot in common, despite "the one issue".

piscivorous 07-13-2008 02:34 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Wasn't his primary reason "the rubes were to stupid to understand it." Where have I heard that before.

thprop 07-13-2008 02:37 PM

About Jim Murphy
 
A Scot with an Irish name. I had to find out more so I looked up Jim Murphy's bio:
Quote:

About Jim

I have been the MP for East Renfrewshire since 1997, and was appointed Minister for Europe on 29 June 2007.

In addition, I have been an FCO Whip, was Parliamentary Secretary at the Cabinet Office, and most recently Minister for Employment and Welfare Reform at the Department for Work and Pensions.I was delighted to be elected Minister for the Year 2008, voted for by UK parliamentarians

I was born on 23 August 1967 and grew up in Glasgow and Cape Town.

I am married to Claire, who is a primary school teacher, and we have three young children.

I have captained the Parliamentary Football Team and am a season ticket holder at Celtic.
The key phrase in there is that he is a Celtic supporter. Jim is from a fashionable suburb of Glasgow. From the Wikipedia article:
Quote:

In a 2007 Reader's Digest poll, East Renfrewshire was voted the second best place in the UK to raise a family, ranking just behind East Dunbartonshire on the northwest side of Glasgow.
But he still has he tribal loyalty. I surmise that he comes from a Catholic family - otherwise he would be for Rangers. If you are unaware of the Celtic/Ranger split, you can start by reading about the Old Firm. I guess we have come some distance when the Minister for Europe, a position which requires a wide ranging world view, can come from the ranks of the insular Bhoys.

Personally, my mother is from Ireland - West Cork (talk about insular and backward). So my tribal loyalties would be with Celtic. I prefer Rugby. My least favorite memory of Scotland is playing against Melrose and being run over by Keith Robertson - I thought I was well positioned for the tackle.

Simon Willard 07-13-2008 02:38 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
It's vexing to hear this talk about global warming as it it were a problem of leadership and education. It's much worse than that. Global warming is unstoppable without the most extreme actions -- actions that no contemporary politician, liberal or conservative, is willing to contemplate.

Sure, there are buffoons in Utah who think this is a liberal plot against conservatives. And without the support of the masses, the American system, which suffers from a surfeit of democracy in comparison to European governments, is in relative gridlock. But there is also wisdom in the masses. They instinctively understand the fallacy and disconnect in Mr. Murphy's argument, and this influences their answer. The outcome comes across to some as the rigidity of rubes. My appeal to Mr. Murphy is that opinion in a nation as vast and complex as the US cannot be summed up in a few sound bites, and that action (or inaction) speaks loudly about some underlying truths.

To some extent, action against global warming represents an action by the rich against the poor. Solution of the problem would indeed create millions of green-collar jobs. The problem is that solving the global warming problem is an otherwise unproductive activity. The direct beneficiaries are the polar ice caps. The cost to resolve the problem is incalculable. Overall, this does not raise Americans out of the lower classes, to say nothing of the developing Asian societies.

Granted, we reward plenty of other unproductive people who do not advance the infrastructure that raises a nation to a better standard of living. Lawyers come to mind. But green workers would only add to this.

Just to get started against global warming, we need to destroy most western notions of the good life, and then plead with Asians that they should follow suit.

When you talk to the rubes in Utah about economic destruction, and appeal to the benefit of solving a problem that is not directly tangible, they resist. And wisely so. You don't fly into a panic before understanding the consequences of the choices at hand.

I am thoroughly convinced that human activity is raising CO2 levels, and that this can reasonably be expected to raise global temperatures. How bad is this? The jury is still out. Can it be reversed? No way. Not with 7 billion people.

deebee 07-13-2008 02:40 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Jim Murphy mentions the Mayor of Salt Lake City's strong interest in environmental issues. I don't know if he was referring to the previous one or the one who took office on Jan, '08 but it looks like they are both of the same mind.

I was surprised to find out a couple of years ago that although Utah votes overwhelmingly Republican in general elections, Salt Lake City is primarily Democratic. For those interested in their very colorful previous mayor, Rocky Anderson and all that he did, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Anderson.

There is also a shorter but interesting sketch of his successor, Ralph Becker, on the same site. Seems as though before his political career, he served as a garbage man, firefighter, and ranger for the park service.

I guess that you could say Salt Lake City is the Austin of Utah.

Eastwest 07-13-2008 02:43 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deebee (Post 83361)
I guess that you could say Salt Lake City is the Austin of Utah.

OK, now it's starting to make sense.

Thanks.

EW

bjkeefe 07-13-2008 02:59 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deebee (Post 83357)
I told you that we probably had a lot in common, despite "the one issue".

So you did.

ohcomeon 07-13-2008 03:17 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Intersting interview. UN Plaza is a great way to spend a Sunday afternoon in the wading pool.

Wonderment 07-13-2008 03:34 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Do you think de-segregation in the South should have been put to a referendum vote?

piscivorous 07-13-2008 04:08 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Two very different issues. If you ask me should surrendering certain parts of our constitutional powers to an outside unelected power be done by popular vote I would defiantly answer yes!

Wonderment 07-13-2008 07:55 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Today's WaPo:

Quote:

A proposal to define a fertilized human egg as a person will land on Colorado's ballot this November, marking the first time that the question of when life begins will go before voters anywhere in the nation.

The Human Life Amendment, also known as the personhood amendment, says the words "person" or "persons" in the state constitution should "include any human being from the moment of fertilization." If voters agreed, legal experts say, it would give fertilized eggs the same legal rights and protections to which people are entitled. ...

Simon Willard 07-13-2008 08:38 PM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Quote:

it would give fertilized eggs the same legal rights and protections to which people are entitled.
Wow! I wonder if that includes the right to own a gun.

uncle ebeneezer 07-14-2008 11:10 AM

Re: UN Plaza: Public Diplomacy Edition
 
Of course...unless they're gay, in which case they are not recognized as "human". It is Colorado, after all.

sleepyhead 07-14-2008 05:23 PM

Re: About Jim Murphy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thprop (Post 83359)
The key phrase in there is that he is a Celtic supporter.

I thought the key phrase in there was, "I have captained the Parliamentary Football Team."

There's a Parliamentary Football Team? How cool! Congress doesn't have a baseball or (American) football team, does it? Who does the Parliamentary team play? Do they have international matches with, say, the Russian Duma?


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