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-   -   Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman) (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=6625)

Bloggingheads 04-06-2011 10:28 AM

Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)
 

ImmRefDotCom 04-06-2011 01:26 PM

Some notes
 
1. Great to see that this diavlog is as popular as I would have thought.
2. Some of the things B.S. will never tell you about Jon Huntsman is at that link; see the earliest posts first. Neither of the earliest posts are solid gold, but they show why non-elites/non-courtiers should oppose him.
3. Ben Smith has a habit of lying. But, it's the good, elite-friendly kind of lying that won't get him into any trouble.

bkjazfan 04-06-2011 06:30 PM

Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)
 
I think it would be interesting to see how Michelle Bachmann does in Iowa if she enters the race. That said the only strong republican candidate would be someone who brings in the independent and tea party voters. That person is not currently listed amongst the 12 or so possible candidates.

harkin 04-06-2011 06:50 PM

Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)
 
'Spend, spend, spend.....make a 50 $billion cut sound like the great depression. Grow government at the expense of the private sector and unionize all the new public employees. Make them slaves to their union overlords while demonizing their real bosses (taxpayers). Raise taxes and borrow what that doesn't produce and blame George Bush and the Koch brothers for runaway government's self-created problems and oh yeah promote class warfare at every chance' is not "overly-nuanced".

stephanie 04-06-2011 06:57 PM

Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bkjazfan (Post 203220)
I think it would be interesting to see how Michelle Bachmann does in Iowa if she enters the race. That said the only strong republican candidate would be someone who brings in the independent and tea party voters. That person is not currently listed amongst the 12 or so possible candidates.

I think it would be entertaining, if kind of scary, but I'm skeptical that her doing well in Iowa (which wouldn't surprise me) would say much about the eventual race.

I'm also not yet convinced -- but open to argument -- that the Republicans need to do much to appeal to the Tea Party. The Republicans have generally been good at getting their extremes to vote against the Dem, and '12 seems like a race where that will be in play. Can candidates who do appeal to the TP change the dynamic the way people like Tancredo did '08 (by getting mainstream candidates to suck up to them in their claimed positions, but not by avoiding the nomination of their likely least-favored candidate) or can they go farther and actually make a difference in who is nominated?

I think how they get to the latter position is if there's actually a break between the candidates (serious candidates) on substantive issues in a way they all seemed to avoid (through a great deal of generality, among other things) in '08. So far, the main differences between the TP and mainstream Republicans just seems to me to be tone -- the TP likes to focus more on "elitists" and use harsher language -- but perhaps this budget stuff or even foreign policy (though I'm skeptical) will lead to something more. It could be interesting.

handle 04-06-2011 07:28 PM

Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harkin (Post 203223)
'Spend, spend, spend.....make a 50 $billion cut sound like the great depression. Grow government at the expense of the private sector and unionize all the new public employees. Make them slaves to their union overlords while demonizing their real bosses (taxpayers). Raise taxes and borrow what that doesn't produce and blame George Bush and the Koch brothers for runaway government's self-created problems and oh yeah promote class warfare at every chance' is not "overly-nuanced".

Blah, blah, blah.... slippery slope to totalitarian socialism. Know any new songs?

You people don't know how good you have it right now, you can't imagine the gut wrenching pain of losing the next Presidential election, and if you don't write some new material, your going down, and it's going to be hell.

But for me, it's going to be revenge for '04! Ha!

badhatharry 04-06-2011 08:38 PM

Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by handle (Post 203226)
Blah, blah, blah.... slippery slope to totalitarian socialism. Know any new songs?

You people don't know how good you have it right now, you can't imagine the gut wrenching pain of losing the next Presidential election, and if you don't write some new material, your going down, and it's going to be hell.

But for me, it's going to be revenge for '04! Ha!

I don't think there are very many of us who don't expect Obama to win in 2012 so there probably won't be that much pain. The way things are now in this country the winners suffer just as much as the losers.

handle 04-06-2011 09:03 PM

Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 203238)
I don't think there are very many of us who don't expect Obama to win in 2012 so there probably won't be that much pain.

Don't tell Denville.


Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 203238)
The way things are now in this country the winners suffer just as much as the losers.

Oh I don't know, I just filled out schedule A, and I'm lookin' pretty good. My thing is sustainable capitalism, not just "I got mine and to hell with everyone else". But if you want to keep throwing huge refunds my way.. jokes on you in the long run IMHO.

bjk 04-07-2011 01:14 AM

Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)
 
AB uses admirably few filler and nonce words. Good on him. Nothing weakens an argument as fast as "you know." If I knew why would I be listening to you?

popcorn_karate 04-07-2011 04:09 PM

Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 203238)
The way things are now in this country the winners suffer just as much as the losers.

interesting point.

I suspect that by the end of Obama's second term most liberals will feel about him exactly the way many conservatives feel about GWB - that he was a complete embarrassment and has nothing to do with the ideology of his base.

unfortunately, we won't have the Koch billions to gin-up a corollary to the tea party.

AemJeff 04-07-2011 04:20 PM

Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by popcorn_karate (Post 203327)
...

I suspect that by the end of Obama's second term most liberals will feel about him exactly the way many conservatives feel about GWB - that he was a complete embarrassment and has nothing to do with the ideology of his base.
...

I doubt that. Except for the empty wishful assertions of mouthbreathers at the extreme ends of the ideological spectrum, there's really not much to support that.

popcorn_karate 04-07-2011 04:35 PM

Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AemJeff (Post 203330)
I doubt that. Except for the empty wishful assertions of mouthbreathers at the extreme ends of the ideological spectrum, there's really not much to support that.

time will tell. The idea of bush being repudiated by the right in 2004 would have seemed completely far-fetched as well.

as for the insults, you know where you can shove them my fat, furry friend.

AemJeff 04-07-2011 04:46 PM

Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by popcorn_karate (Post 203332)
time will tell. The idea of bush being repudiated by the right in 2004 would have seemed completely far-fetched as well.

as for the insults, you know where you can shove them my fat, furry friend.

It wasn't aimed directly at you, but if you think the shoe fits...

operative 04-07-2011 05:00 PM

Re: Progressive Rock Edition (Ben Smith & Ari Berman)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badhatharry (Post 203238)
I don't think there are very many of us who don't expect Obama to win in 2012 so there probably won't be that much pain. The way things are now in this country the winners suffer just as much as the losers.

In general it takes a lot for incumbents to lose. But keep in mind that at this time in 1991, everyone said that George Bush was unbeatable. Well that worked out real well for him.


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