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Bloggingheads 11-03-2010 01:45 AM

Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 

consider 11-03-2010 06:37 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Althouse, a law prof. at U Wisconsin, couldn't remember when Feingold almost lost a decade ago.

What a complete air head.

Wm. Blaxton 11-03-2010 07:48 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Ugh, Althouse's political personality can be summed up by the fact that she thinks Limbaugh qualifies as "fresh air."

I grew up in a town with Madisonesque (as opposed, I suppose, to Madisonian) politics, and it's certainly true that being surrounded by college town leftists gets old fast. But when I wanted to escape, I'd try to find people to read and listen to who were less obnoxious and more interesting than the local PCU lefties, not their mirror image (or, in Limbaugh's case, worse).

So it's telling that Althouse actually enjoys the relentless intellectual dishonesty of right-wing talk radio. Her personal antidote to blinkered self-righteousness and gasbaggery is more blinkered self-righteousness and more gasbaggery. It's like saying, "Glenn Beck is a nice antidote to Michael Moore." Yeah, okay, if you're shallower than a pizza tin.

Not surprising, given Althouse's own temperament, but telling.

DenvilleSteve 11-03-2010 07:59 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
( I have yet to hear Matt Welch say anything interesting in his appearances on this channel. Why does BHTV put him on? And what is Reason magazine? I have never seen an issue of it. Never seen or heard a reference to it from anywhere other than here. )

anyway, republicans are in charge, baby! The government runs on the spending bills we pass or nothing at all. That is the choice Obama and the senate democrats will have. Take it or leave it. Let's reword that. Take it or shove it!

Regarding government favoritism to the companies on its side. Check out the front page article in the WSJ today on the arbitrary tax break the Obama admin is giving GM. Some $40 Billion in tax writeoffs into future years to "compensate" for the bankruptcy shafting of the prior owners and bondholders of that company.

Ocean 11-03-2010 08:03 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve (Post 186374)
anyway, republicans are in charge, baby! The government runs on the spending bills we pass or nothing at all. That is the choice Obama and the senate democrats will have. Take it or leave it. Let's reword that. Take it or shove it!

What? You're no longer seceding?

Wm. Blaxton 11-03-2010 08:03 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve (Post 186374)
And what is Reason magazine? I have never seen an issue of it. Never seen or heard a reference to it from anywhere other than here.

Good grief: http://www.google.com/

DenvilleSteve 11-03-2010 08:07 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wm. Blaxton (Post 186373)
So it's telling that Althouse actually enjoys the relentless intellectual dishonesty of right-wing talk radio. Her personal antidote to blinkered self-righteousness and gasbaggery is more blinkered self-righteousness and more gasbaggery.

Did she say she listens to conservative talkers other than Rush? I had to turn the diavlog off because of Welch. Rush can be very good. Very insightful. Other times you just turn him off. I think Ann is one of the better bloggers to appear here. Her site, Drudge, Steve Sailor and this one http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/ are the sites I check every day.

Wm. Blaxton 11-03-2010 08:10 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
I don't read her blog regularly, but she's the easily the worst regular BH.tv participant.

You have bad taste, dude. I think Welch is one of the best.

DenvilleSteve 11-03-2010 08:11 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 186375)
What? You're no longer seceding?

Hopefully NY State and Southern California will once we cut off their subsidies. ( was in Staten Island last week. What an awful, overcrowded place. To think of how nice it once was before all the people arrived. Yeah, immigration is a real positive for America. )

DenvilleSteve 11-03-2010 08:12 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wm. Blaxton (Post 186378)
You have bad taste, dude. I think Welch is one of the best.

ok, you have my attention. What has Welch ever said that you thought was interesting?

DenvilleSteve 11-03-2010 08:17 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean (Post 186375)
What? You're no longer seceding?

I think the election results underscore how divided we are as a country. Republicans have to push for increased states rights. States should be able to control foreign trade and immigration into their territory.

Wm. Blaxton 11-03-2010 08:19 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve (Post 186380)
What has Welch ever said that you thought was interesting?

He's an able expositor of an interesting and coherent (if not entirely appealing) political philosophy.

harkin 11-03-2010 08:53 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Re: first two comments.....

Got that Ann? You're stupid.

Instead of Limbaugh you could have been listening to the insight at NPR, where two days ago I heard Ina Jaffe and a 'political expert' say what the election comes down to is will the American people be smart enough to realize how wonderful Obama is or will they get caught up in the crazyness and racism of the wackos taking over the republican party.

Or you could have watched Christian Amanpour's This Week DNC infomercial where Ms Amanpour's analysis boiled down to asking her guests if Americans will be smart enough to understand how wonderful Obama is or will they get caught up in the crazyness and racism of the wackos taking over the republican party.

Even the NYTimes was using BhTV to push the meme:

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5...bhtvracism.jpg

Or you could have watched MSNBC where you could have learned that a vote for republicans was a vote for storm troopers, slavery, the abolishment of government and concentration camps.


How dare you choose Limbaugh; tho it looks like plenty more did cause in many cases the racists won.

Don Zeko 11-03-2010 09:11 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wm. Blaxton (Post 186376)

This is more fun.

SJH71 11-03-2010 09:52 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
I love the fact that Matt is so passionate about marijuana rights, I was convinced he was an ardent lover of the bo-reefus until he finally said he doesn't really enjoy it. That's true libertarian passion, and you have to respect someone who's passionate about principles. Well, some principles anyway.

DenvilleSteve 11-03-2010 09:58 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zeko (Post 186386)
This is more fun.

the website looks over produced. Like someone with a lot of money is funding them and they have to put on a good show to impress the benefactor.

Libertarianism makes no sense in the modern world. No doubt it calls for open borders. Open borders in a world with 10 billion people would destroy whatever society which inacted such a rule. And then they call for no drug laws and no military. So towns end up being over run, they don't have the means to fight back and the new residents have unlimited access to narcotics.

brucds 11-03-2010 10:15 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
So glad that an admirable, well-spoken conservative who understands the need for a good business climate and the evils of big government beat Feingold - Johnson recently told a radio reporter that "the climate for business investment is far more certain in communist China then it is in the U.S. here."

Loonytoons, of course. Actually, more like despicable. But the contemporary "conservative" can apparently coexist with levels of cognitive dissonance usually associated with mental illness or pathological liars.

DenvilleSteve 11-03-2010 10:25 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brucds (Post 186396)
Johnson recently told a radio reporter that "the climate for business investment is far more certain in communist China then it is in the U.S. here."

Loonytoons, of course. Actually, more like despicable. But the contemporary "conservative" can apparently coexist with levels of cognitive dissonance usually associated with mental illness or pathological liars.

explain why the democrat car company, GM, gets a $40 billion tax break while privately owned companies dont. ( see today's WSJ front page )

brucds 11-03-2010 10:27 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
"Steve Cooley should be pre-emptively arrested to protect American society"

No fan of Steve Cooley's - at all - but this sounds not just hysterical but not very "libertarian." Okay - an off-hand sputter, no doubt. But weird thinking IMHO.

And Althouses' hysteria over medical marijuana was also pretty sick. Toxic personality...a flaming narcissist without any redeeming talents or insights.

Gonna switch this thing off and do something worthwhile, like brush my teeth.

brucds 11-03-2010 11:27 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Denville - the only implication I can get from your response to the screwball Johnson quote is that somehow Obama's GM bailout (a success, by the way) is giving the Chinese communists a run for their money in the annals of authoritarian state-directed "capitalism." If this, indeed, is your point...and it's hard to discern any other...you're a total f-ing idiot.

Also, the answer to your question - such as it is - can be found by reading the WSJ article you cite down through paragraph nine.

DenvilleSteve 11-03-2010 11:48 AM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brucds (Post 186402)
Also, the answer to your question - such as it is - can be found by reading the WSJ article you cite down through paragraph nine.

without an arbitrary decision by the president, you can't writeoff pre bankruptcy loses on a post bankruptcy tax return. The sooner we break the country apart the better. The democrats have little respect for the rule of law.

popcorn_karate 11-03-2010 12:04 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Bob, do you really hate liberals? You try to make us suffer the indignity of outhouse on a morning like this?

no thanks. I'll check back tomorrow.

bjkeefe 11-03-2010 12:20 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wm. Blaxton (Post 186373)
I grew up in a town with Madisonesque (as opposed, I suppose, to Madisonian) politics, ...

Nice.

bjkeefe 11-03-2010 12:33 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve (Post 186379)
Hopefully NY State and Southern California will once we cut off their subsidies.

Amazing how many times you've been corrected on this, and how you persist in ignoring reality. Year after year, NY and CA rank near the bottom of the list of states in how much money they receive from the federal government compared to how much they give. Typically, they get back about $0.80 for every $1.00 they send in taxes. The top of the list is invariably dominated by red states, getting well more than a dollar in subsidies for each dollar sent in.

Here's a good summary. Here are more sources.

Quote:

( was in Staten Island last week. What an awful, overcrowded place.
That's the Republican part of New York City, just so you know.

osmium 11-03-2010 01:33 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Just wanna say how much I'd like to smoke pot with Matt. (We can talk about how nuts David Brin is.) (I don't even like pot, but will definitely make an exception.)

Winspur 11-03-2010 01:59 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
A question for Ann:

Do you think it is "upstanding" to shield Catholic Church clergy from prosecution for child molestation, as Ron Johnson did? Do you think it is in any way "honest" to call for smaller government while happily accepting millions in federal government money for your business?

brucds 11-03-2010 02:09 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
"A question for Ann"

Nice try, but you're pre-supposing she's a serious and rational analyst of anything outside the sphere of calling attention to herself.

brucds 11-03-2010 02:16 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Denville Steve - leaving aside your perverse desire to destroy the United States of America, is there some reason that rather than respond to the quote I posted by the wack job who just got elected to the Senate as a "conservative" despite the fact that he thinks the Communist Chinese business climate is better than ours, you start yammering obsessively about some WSJ article that is totally irrelevant to the point, unless you're so f-ing nuts that you actually think it supports Johnson's toxic assertion ?

Are you as unable to reason coherently as it appears ? Why are you here ? Simply to annoy and agitate people who aren't total morons and limit the possibilities for anything resembling intelligent discussion ?

Update:
" 'Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve View Post
Hopefully NY State and Southern California will once we cut off their subsidies.'
"Amazing how many times you've been corrected on this, and how you persist in ignoring reality."

Not so amazing, really, when you dip into this guy's "ouvre." It's just bizarro world...

bjkeefe 11-03-2010 03:13 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve (Post 186374)
Regarding government favoritism to the companies on its side. Check out the front page article in the WSJ today on the arbitrary tax break the Obama admin is giving GM. Some $40 Billion in tax writeoffs into future years to "compensate" for the bankruptcy shafting of the prior owners and bondholders of that company.

Here's an excerpt from a rebuttal to your point of view:

Quote:

Saving the American auto industry, which has been a huge drag on Obama’s political capital, is a monumental achievement that few appreciate, unless you live in Michigan. After getting their taxpayer lifeline from Obama, both General Motors and Chrysler are now making money by making cars. New plants are even scheduled to open. More than 1 million jobs would have disappeared had the domestic auto sector been liquidated.

An apology is due Barack Obama,” wrote The Economist, which had opposed the $86 billion auto bailout. As for Government Motors: after emerging from bankruptcy, it will go public with a new stock offering in just a few weeks, and the United States government, with its 60 percent share of common stock, stands to make a profit. Yes, an industry was saved, and the government will probably make money on the deal — one of Obama’s signature economic successes.

Interest rates are at record lows. Corporate profits are lighting up boardrooms; it is one of the best years for earnings in a decade.

All of the above is good for capitalism, and should end any serious-minded discussion about Obama the socialist. But more than anything, the fact that the president took on the structural flaws of a broken free enterprise system instead of focusing on things that the average voter could understand explains why his party was routed on Tuesday. Obama got on the wrong side of voter anxiety in a decade of diminished fortunes.

“We have done things that people don’t even know about,” Obama told Jon Stewart. Certainly. The three signature accomplishments of his first two years — a health care law that will make life easier for millions of people, financial reform that attempts to level the playing field with Wall Street, and the $814 billion stimulus package — have all been recast as big government blunders, rejected by the emerging majority.

But each of them, in its way, should strengthen the system. The health law will hold costs down, while giving millions the chance at getting care, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. Financial reform seeks to prevent the kind of meltdown that caused the global economic collapse. And the stimulus, though it drastically raised the deficit, saved about 3 million jobs, again according to the CBO. It also gave a majority of taxpayers a one-time cut — even if 90 percent of Americans don’t know that, either.

[...]

They will whine a fierce storm, the manipulators of great wealth. A war on business, they will claim. Not even close. Obama saved them, and the biggest cost was to him.
From "How Obama Saved Capitalism and Lost the Midterms," by Timothy Egan.

I'd add that the quoted link to The Economist is also worth reading in full.

basman 11-03-2010 05:02 PM

Glass Houses etc.
 
The people who write off either Althouse or Welch as unworthy of appearing at this site are wrong. Here, I'd note a distinction between "not to my taste" and utter rejection on the ground of diavlog incompetence. You, whoever you are, should be so incompetent!

Interesting difference, there is, between this exchange, which has good and substantive give and take, and Althouse's appearances with Emily Bazelon who is so needlessly deferential to Althouse, unless she simply is that way by her nature.

The discussion of the pathology dodge for the nudging, winking use of marijuana in California was incisive and penetrating and became a good particular case of the eternal dilemma between principle (here, the principled attack on the marijuana prohibition) and strategic and tactical compromises with principle (here the medical dodge as a means of working towards its ultimate legalization). The latter is in this case arguably objectionable because, for one of the reasons, in submitting to bogus medical authorization, one violates a fundamental presupposition of libertarianism: the rejection of state intrusion without persuasive justification--which is to say, subjecting one's self to such hypocritical permission is arguably a most abject submission that same rejected authority. One mimics in practice what one in principle rejects.

I also thought incisive and penetrating the all-too-brief discussion of the doctrine of "commandeering", which I never have come across in my limited forays into Canadian constitutional law--quite apart from California having no jurisidction, if I'm understanding this, effectively to vitiate federal criminal law. So if California does not enforce federal drug laws, the federal government can't "commandeer" it to do so--that being a violation of California's plenary state's rights. The federal government is, then, put to the political test of itself backing up the laws it says it will enforce if a Proposition 19 ever passes. And that is to be contrasted, as I understand the discussion, with Arizona wanting the federal government to "more forcefully enforce" its own federal immigration law. The federal government does not want that slew of cases coming down its pike and that was a reason for its litigating Arizona's law, a different instance of the federal government being put to a political test.

Have I correctly caught the gist of this part of the discussion?

There was, to end where I began, clearly more than sufficient substance in this discussion to belie entirely any notion of either Welch or Althouse as unworthy here. The notion is ludicrous and speaks to the pomposity and the unwarranted high self regard of its mutterers rather than to anything else.

Itzik Basman

db63 11-03-2010 05:22 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
two thumbs up!

stephanie 11-03-2010 05:30 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve (Post 186397)
democrat car company

This makes me laugh. Thanks.

DenvilleSteve 11-03-2010 05:59 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 186421)
Amazing how many times you've been corrected on this, and how you persist in ignoring reality. Year after year, NY and CA rank near the bottom of the list of states in how much money they receive from the federal government compared to how much they give. ...

Here's a good summary. Here are more sources.

you have to break down the numbers, show what spending is included in it, what spending is not. NY and California get hundreds of billions in medicaid and unemployment insurance money from the feds. No doubt the social security disability payments are off the charts high in democrat states.

Either way, it is republican voters who would favor a reworking of the relationship between states and the center. Where residents of states pay less in federal taxes in exchange for their state paying for a higher percentage of the social safety net.

whburgess 11-03-2010 06:04 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SJH71 (Post 186391)
I love the fact that Matt is so passionate about marijuana rights, I was convinced he was an ardent lover of the bo-reefus until he finally said he doesn't really enjoy it. That's true libertarian passion, and you have to respect someone who's passionate about principles. Well, some principles anyway.

Why should someone be less passionate about other peoples freedom and rights then their own? Unless, of course, politics is all about group identity and power struggles rather then about justice and liberty.

DenvilleSteve 11-03-2010 06:06 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bjkeefe (Post 186444)
Here's an excerpt from a rebuttal to your point of view:

From "How Obama Saved Capitalism and Lost the Midterms," by Timothy Egan.

I'd add that the quoted link to The Economist is also worth reading in full.

If Ford and GM were allowed by the goverment to pay their workers market rate pay, they could easily be profitable without government bailouts. If the government is to do anything to help domestic manufacturers, it should raise tariffs on imports. 90% of the cars sold in the US should be built here.

There was an interesting article in the WSJ last week saying the CEO that Obama ousted, Rick Wagoner, actually did an outstanding job turning GM around. That article was based on a long piece in the New Yorker. It said Ratner, the criminal from NY who is Andrew Cuomo and Barack Obama's friend, has claimed incorrectly that he and his banker colleagues saved GM.

bjkeefe 11-03-2010 06:11 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve (Post 186464)
you have to break down the numbers, show what spending is included in it, what spending is not. [...]

No, you're going to have to, if you want to persuade anyone. As far as I can tell, those charts come from comprehensive dollars in/dollars out calculations, and just cold making shit up isn't going to change that. Show me some numbers, or admit you just pulled those claims from the same place you do your claims that only "red state Americans" serve in the military.

whburgess 11-03-2010 06:14 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brucds (Post 186437)
"A question for Ann"

Nice try, but you're pre-supposing she's a serious and rational analyst of anything outside the sphere of calling attention to herself.

I'm curious. What do ad hominem, hateful, attacks against some lady expressing her opinion on Bh accomplish? Does it initiate anything interesting? what? Does it make you feel better? How? This may seem like a smart ass question...but its not..i'm really curious about this phenomenon.

Ok nevermind..I read your other posts and i'm going to edit this---I can see you're really upset about the election last night. I guess a very passionate lefty would be entitled to vent after last night.

bjkeefe 11-03-2010 06:16 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve (Post 186468)
If Ford and GM were allowed by the goverment to pay their workers market rate pay, they could easily be profitable without government bailouts. If the government is to do anything to help domestic manufacturers, it should raise tariffs on imports. 90% of the cars sold in the US should be built here.

Well, that is a philosophy, I'll grant -- ban unions, break contracts to do so, and reinstate protectionism. It's a 19th century one, and it's never going to happen, but there's another class of people who believe in going Galt as the solution to all of our woes, so I suppose you should be equally entitled to enjoy a muddle-headed fantasy.

Quote:

There was an interesting article in the WSJ last week saying the CEO that Obama ousted, Rick Wagoner, actually did an outstanding job turning GM around.
So, this guy did a great job turning GM around, and was fired by Obama, you say, after having spent half-a-dozen posts saying GM was a disaster bailed out and propped up by Obama. Seems the only explanation here is that any phrase you come across that can be hurled against Obama, you lunge at. Your lack of any links to support your assertions doesn't help diminish that suspicion, I might add.

AemJeff 11-03-2010 06:23 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by whburgess (Post 186474)
I'm curious. What do ad hominem, hateful, attacks against some lady expressing her opinion on Bh accomplish? Does it initiate anything interesting? what? Does it make you feel better? How? This may seem like a smart ass question...but its not..i'm really curious about this phenomenon.

Ok nevermind..I read your other posts and i'm going to edit this---I can see you're really upset about the election last night. I guess a very passionate lefty would be entitled to vent after last night.

You're confusing AA with "some lady expressing her opinion on Bh." She's very well known here and has worked hard to earn the low esteem in which she's held by a fair proportion of the commentariat here. (Which isn't to say she doesn't have her fanboys.)

whburgess 11-03-2010 06:24 PM

Re: Non-Obsolete Edition (Matt Welch & Ann Althouse)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DenvilleSteve (Post 186468)
If Ford and GM were allowed by the goverment to pay their workers market rate pay, they could easily be profitable without government bailouts.

Wait a minute---Are you saying the Gov. tells ford and gm how much to pay their workers?

The only law regarding wages that the government has (that I know of) is the minimum wage. When did ford and gm start paying their workers minimum wage?


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