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View Full Version : Breaking: apparently, Bin Laden is dead


bjkeefe
05-01-2011, 11:04 PM
President Obama is supposed to speak from the White House shortly. Might want to turn on a teevee, if you have one nearby. Or surf over to your favorite news site.

(h/t: Twin)

handle
05-01-2011, 11:08 PM
President Obama is supposed to speak from the White House shortly. Might want to turn on a teevee, if you have one nearby. Or surf over to your favorite news site.

(h/t: Twin)

Here comes the "Obama had nothing to do with it" in 5 4 3......

bjkeefe
05-01-2011, 11:08 PM
Here comes the "Obama had nothing to do with it" in 5 4 3......

Oh, totally. Wingnut spin on this is truly going to be something to behold.

operative
05-01-2011, 11:08 PM
President Obama is supposed to speak from the White House shortly. Might want to turn on a teevee, if you have one nearby. Or surf over to your favorite news site.

(h/t: Twin)

Or pretty much any news site. A bit of good news.

handle
05-01-2011, 11:13 PM
Oh, totally. Wingnut spin on this is truly going to be something to behold.
Awesome news, though. 'bout time!

bjkeefe
05-01-2011, 11:17 PM
Awesome news, though. 'bout time!

It's a nice bit of symbolism, I suppose. It's undercut by it having taken a decade, and much more importantly, that we couldn't capture him alive and put his sorry ass on trial.

This is not to take away anything from those who did finally hunt him down, though. Full kudos to them.

chiwhisoxx
05-01-2011, 11:19 PM
News is and has been fairly fluid on twitter, but there's some pretty heavy buzz now that he was killed an a mansion outside Islamabad. So assuming this might raise some questions about the Pakistani government...

operative
05-01-2011, 11:20 PM
News is and has been fairly fluid on twitter, but there's some pretty heavy buzz now that he was killed an a mansion outside Islamabad. So assuming this might raise some questions about the Pakistani government...

Yeah, it'd certainly cause some questions about the notion that Bin Laden was hiding out in caves in the rugged border region.

handle
05-01-2011, 11:23 PM
News is and has been fairly fluid on twitter, but there's some pretty heavy buzz now that he was killed an a mansion outside Islamabad. So assuming this might raise some questions about the Pakistani government...

Just heard pak intel assisted.

chiwhisoxx
05-01-2011, 11:25 PM
Just heard pak intel assisted.

Just read that too. Maybe they baited him with the lure of a nice mansion with a jacuzzi and a billiards table?

AemJeff
05-01-2011, 11:25 PM
Just heard pak intel assisted.

That's how I'm hearing it.

operative
05-01-2011, 11:26 PM
Just read that too. Maybe they baited him with the lure of a nice mansion with a jacuzzi and a billiards table?

Now that's an epic punk'd.

handle
05-01-2011, 11:28 PM
Now that's an epic punk'd.

To catch a predator.

AemJeff
05-01-2011, 11:29 PM
Sorry to go all political so soon; but it's hard not to want to savor the irony. Today is the eighth anniversary of "Mission Accomplished!"

TwinSwords
05-01-2011, 11:30 PM
President Obama is supposed to speak from the White House shortly. Might want to turn on a teevee, if you have one nearby. Or surf over to your favorite news site.

(h/t: Twin)

Three cheers for US forces and the Commander in Chief.

operative
05-01-2011, 11:31 PM
To catch a predator.

*Bin Laden enters room*
*Cue Chris Hansen*
Chris Hansen: Not what you were expecting?
Bin Laden's jaw dropped.
Chris Hansen: Usually I would turn you over to the police...but not this time.
*Chris Hansen pulls out gun and shoots Bin Laden*

Next time on Dateline: To Catch a Terrorist, Chris Hansen kills Omar al Bashir.

handle
05-01-2011, 11:32 PM
Three cheers for US forces and the Commander in Chief.

Hip hip...

handle
05-01-2011, 11:33 PM
*Bin Laden enters room*
*Cue Chris Hansen*
Chris Hansen: Not what you were expecting?
Bin Laden's jaw dropped.
Chris Hansen: Usually I would turn you over to the police...but not this time.
*Chris Hansen pulls out gun and shoots Bin Laden*

Next time on Dateline: To Catch a Terrorist, Chris Hansen kills Omar al Bashir.

Lol! But don't ya have to offer him sweet tea first while you put in the laundry?

bjkeefe
05-01-2011, 11:47 PM
Sorry to go all political so soon; but it's hard not to want to savor the irony. Today is the eighth anniversary of "Mission Accomplished!"

Now THAT will cause wingnut fury for sure. I can hear it now: OBAMAR DELAYED THE ANNOUNCEMENT FOR A WEEK JUST TO GIVE BUSH A SLAP IN THE FACE.

bjkeefe
05-01-2011, 11:48 PM
Three cheers for US forces and the Commander in Chief.

And thanks to you for giving us the heads-up so we could catch the announcement live.

uncle ebeneezer
05-01-2011, 11:59 PM
Is Trump taking credit yet, or waiting until he sees the long form death certificate for himself? ;)

Great news. Kudos to all the people who no doubt busted their asses for 9 years to make it happen.

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 12:04 AM
As I'm sure everyone knows by now, the chyron on every TV screen is saying something along the lines of "bin Laden's body is in US custody."

Try to imagine the diplomatic complications that will unwind from here on out, concerning the disposal of that body.

AemJeff
05-02-2011, 12:09 AM
Is Trump taking credit yet, or waiting until he sees the long form death certificate for himself? ;)

Great news. Kudos to all the people who no doubt busted their asses for 9 years to make it happen.

Nah, but he is making frowny faces cuz peoples was mean to him. Luckily our own intrepis Denville Steve is on the case!

AemJeff
05-02-2011, 12:11 AM
As I'm sure everyone knows by now, the chyron on every TV screen is saying something along the lines of "bin Laden's body is in US custody."

Try to imagine the diplomatic complications that will unwind from here on out, concerning the disposal of that body.

I'm betting they believe they have need to show the body. There was a similar issue, as I recall, when Saddam was killed.

operative
05-02-2011, 12:14 AM
I'm betting they believe they have need to show the body. There was a similar issue, as I recall, when Saddam was killed.

When Saddam's sons were killed, pictures of their bodies were made public in an effort to encourage the Iraqi people to unite in opposition to Saddam, knowing that he was really going to be out of power for good. I don't know if there will be any comparably compelling cause to show Bin Laden's body. Personally I have no interest in seeing it and I don't quite understand why anyone would want to do so. He's dead, good riddance, end of story for him.

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 12:20 AM
I'm betting they believe they have need to show the body. There was a similar issue, as I recall, when Saddam was killed.

I'm sure some people are wondering about that. The thought sure popped into my mind a while ago.

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 12:22 AM
Is Trump taking credit yet, or waiting until he sees the long form death certificate for himself? ;)

Here is a screengrab of a tweet (https://twitter.com/#!/Drudge_Report/status/64893211314896896), courtesy of Jack Stuef's great liveblog (http://wonkette.com/444693/get-drunk-america-liveblogging-the-address-by-osama-bin-laden-killer-barack-obama):

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/trump.png

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 12:41 AM
I'm betting they believe they have need to show the body. There was a similar issue, as I recall, when Saddam was killed.

Just one tweet (https://twitter.com/#!/dangerroom/status/64911308780355584), but given that I only follow ~190 people, it's probably not that rare a sentiment:

dangerroom 'I'll wait for the Mujahideen to confirm this & will not believe until I see a pic of his dead body" - online jihadi http://wrd.tw/jn4O9d

(expanded link (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/u-s-forces-kill-osama-bin-laden/)) <-- that's by B'head Spencer Ackerman, btw.

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 12:50 AM
Here is a screengrab of a tweet (https://twitter.com/#!/Drudge_Report/status/64893211314896896), courtesy of Jack Stuef's great liveblog (http://wonkette.com/444693/get-drunk-america-liveblogging-the-address-by-osama-bin-laden-killer-barack-obama):

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/trump.png

Also: "Memo to Trump (https://twitter.com/#!/thinkprogress/status/64911976664535040)."

handle
05-02-2011, 12:50 AM
Just one tweet (https://twitter.com/#!/dangerroom/status/64911308780355584), but given that I only follow ~190 people, it's probably not that rare a sentiment:
(expanded link (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/u-s-forces-kill-osama-bin-laden/)) <-- that's by B'head Spencer Ackerman, btw.

Hey, gotta make sure it's not andy dick in a santa suit.

I thought the speech was great, here's what happened, short and sweet.
Too bad he aint an american, that was pretty good stuff.

He should have plugged his youtube standup at the end though... live from the white house, I'll be here all week, and then probably a lot longer than some of you were hoping.

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 12:52 AM
[...]

I thought the speech was great, here's what happened, short and sweet.
[...]

Agreed.

LOL @ the rest.

handle
05-02-2011, 01:06 AM
Also: "Memo to Trump (https://twitter.com/#!/thinkprogress/status/64911976664535040)."

Paaaaathetic!! This just might be a little bigger than Trump's crappy little show.

rfrobison
05-02-2011, 01:25 AM
Best news I've heard in months. Hats off to the president, the intel people and the (I'm assuming) special forces who got him.

JonIrenicus
05-02-2011, 01:27 AM
I find this news incredibly cathartic.

Congratulations to the Seals, the president, all involved.

chiwhisoxx
05-02-2011, 01:28 AM
So long as we're politicizing this, CNN is now reporting that detainees from gitmo provided intelligence that led to ascertaining OBL's whereabouts.

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 01:30 AM
Best news I've heard in months. Hats off to the president, the intel people and the (I'm assuming) special forces who got him.

It does seem to have been a special forces mission. Marc Ambinder's 140 char summary (https://twitter.com/#!/marcambinder/status/64907316037812225):

To summarize: 40 minute JSOC raid; two helos, one drone; 4 KIA, inc OBL; DevGru (Seal Team Six) did shooting; only cas was US helocopter

From other sources (e.g. (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/05/more_details.php)), the one helicopter was forced to land due to mechanical failure. No one hurt, craft later destroyed by US forces on site.

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 01:33 AM
I find this news incredibly cathartic.

I know exactly what you mean. Despite my earlier instinct to wave it off, the more I sit here, soaking in the moment, with the teevee on in the background (a rarity for me) while hopping around the Web ... yeah. Cathartic is spot-on.

Congratulations to the Seals, the president, all involved.

Indeed.

handle
05-02-2011, 01:37 AM
So long as we're politicizing this, CNN is now reporting that detainees from gitmo provided intelligence that led to ascertaining OBL's whereabouts.

Yeah and the investigation has been ongoing for many years, the real politics of this are: this is the best news for the free world in a long time.

Don Zeko
05-02-2011, 01:42 AM
So long as we're politicizing this, CNN is now reporting that detainees from gitmo provided intelligence that led to ascertaining OBL's whereabouts.

I'm not seeing anything to that effect on other outlets, so I wonder if it will be confirmed as more detailed accounts of the operation eventually become public. And so long as we're politicizing this, I think that the intelligence would have to have been produced via torture for it to be something that Conservatives can rightly make hay out of. It's not like any more than a tiny fringe of liberals have a problem with capturing and interrogating suspected terrorists.

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 01:45 AM
Interesting wrinkle close to home: @MahaRafiAtal (https://twitter.com/#!/MahaRafiAtal), better known around these parts as PreppyMcPrepperson, tweeted a while back (https://twitter.com/#!/MahaRafiAtal/status/64911442196963328):

.@reallyvirtual (http://twitter.com/reallyvirtual) appears to have liveblogged the raid w/o knowing it. go read.

Ambinder (https://twitter.com/#!/marcambinder/status/64921891424579584), about forty minutes later:

This is true -- read the stream! RT @ReallyVirtual (http://twitter.com/reallyvirtual): Uh oh, now I'm the guy who liveblogged the Osama raid without knowing it.

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 01:48 AM
So long as we're politicizing this, ...

Uh, okay ... we're politicizing this now, besides laughing at wingnuts and Trump? What?

CNN is now reporting that detainees from gitmo provided intelligence that led to ascertaining OBL's whereabouts.

That sounds like bunk. How would ... how could anyone in Gitmo know where he was any time more recently than, what, five or seven or ten years ago?

chiwhisoxx
05-02-2011, 01:57 AM
Uh, okay ... we're politicizing this now, besides laughing at wingnuts and Trump? What?



That sounds like bunk. How would ... how could anyone in Gitmo know where he was any time more recently than, what, five or seven or ten years ago?

Jeff said something to the effect of "hate to politicize this so early...". Responding to that re: politicization. I don't care what you say about Trump, although it's somewhat odd that the first thing you think of when something like this happens is how alleged "wingnuts" will respond.

As for the veracity, neither you nor I has any freaking idea. I have no idea how anyone in Gitmo could have known (I agree it sounds...bizarre) but I'm just passing along what I read.

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 01:58 AM
I find this news incredibly cathartic.

I know exactly what you mean. Despite my earlier instinct to wave it off, the more I sit here, soaking in the moment, with the teevee on in the background (a rarity for me) while hopping around the Web ... yeah. Cathartic is spot-on.

Congratulations to the Seals, the president, all involved.

Indeed.

Another of like mind:

I have no illusions that this will be the end of the war on terror, but it does not seem irrational to think that it could be the beginning of the end. Personally, I feel like a tumor was just removed from my brain—so present has the man been in my thoughts this last decade.

I cannot begin to express my gratitude and admiration for our troops…

--Sam Harris (http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/osama-bin-laden-1957-2011/)

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 02:03 AM
Jeff said something to the effect of "hate to politicize this so early...". Responding to that re: politicization. I don't care what you say about Trump, although it's somewhat odd that the first thing you think of when something like this happens is how alleged "wingnuts" will respond.

Glad to see you've shown your usual sense of personal responsibility by ... blaming it on Jeff and me. Did you also send a PM to Bob and Aryeh? Or just report the posts?

And yeah, the wingnuts are already out in full force, and have been for hours. You should be glad that I have not polluted this thread with quotes from your brethren.

As for the veracity, neither you nor I has any freaking idea.

I, at least, have a working BS detector.

I have no idea ...

Quite so. So stop doing this:

I'm just passing along what I read.

Unless you want to make yourself look worse, I mean.

Wonderment
05-02-2011, 02:20 AM
Congratulations to Presidents Bush and Obama for winning the war on terror.

Robert Greenwald:

We will hear a lot of reasons this week from war supporters why the ongoing war must continue, but with al-Qaeda driven from the country and Bin Laden now dead, the rationale for war has evaporated. It’s time to stop now.

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 02:22 AM
One of the pics on the home page of the NYT (http://www.nytimes.com/):

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3311/fdnygetsosamadeadnews.png

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 02:52 AM
So long as we're politicizing this ...

Okay then!

Rightbloggers on the Death of Osama Bin Laden: Eh, No Big Whoop. Thanks, President Bush!

Intro here (http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2011_05_01_archive.html#6274957533680770987), full column here (http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/05/afterbirthers_a.php).

Starwatcher162536
05-02-2011, 06:45 AM
I can think of a number of things I'd rather hear; Cheap Fusion, Cancer Cured, etc, etc.

It's good that he is dead, but I don't see how this changes very much in the big picture. I may be mistaken, but I don't believe Osama had any sort of terrorist super power that made him especially more dangerous then a number of other crazy people. I also don't see this particularly impeding other potential terrorists, considering how glamorous many in that part of the world view martyrs.

Ocean
05-02-2011, 07:32 AM
Wow, and I was sleeping all through this...

Yes, it does feel like a burden off one's shoulder. Or something to that effect.

We know that ultimately he's just a symbol of a larger problem, but we also know how important symbols are especially for those who have suffered the consequences of his actions.

Congrats to all involved in the mission. Let's do something to end those wars now, please.

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 08:30 AM
One of the pics on the home page of the NYT (http://www.nytimes.com/):

Another, from the same source:

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/9618/arabamericanscelebrateo.png

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 08:44 AM
As I'm sure everyone knows by now, the chyron on every TV screen is saying something along the lines of "bin Laden's body is in US custody."

Try to imagine the diplomatic complications that will unwind from here on out, concerning the disposal of that body.

Several sources (ex: NYT (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/world/asia/osama-bin-laden-is-killed.html?pagewanted=all), LAT/AP (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-naw-bin-laden-buried-20110501,0,7069834.story)) are saying he was buried at sea.

NYT:

Muslim tradition requires burial within 24 hours, but by doing it at sea, American authorities presumably were trying to avoid creating a shrine for his followers.

LAT/AP:

Finding a country willing to accept the remains of the world's most wanted terrorist would have been difficult, the official said. So the U.S. decided to bury him at sea.

The official, who spoke Monday on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive national security matters, did not immediately say where that occurred.

[Added] The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/bin-laden-body-buried-sea) has a brief look at the Muslim view of burial at sea.

miceelf
05-02-2011, 08:47 AM
Wouldn't a shrine for his followers be kind of like a roach motel?

miceelf
05-02-2011, 09:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j0XxAtmeYQ

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 09:01 AM
... CNN is now reporting that detainees from gitmo provided intelligence that led to ascertaining OBL's whereabouts.

Contrary to my earlier disbelief, this may be more or less true. Here's a bit of confirmation from the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/how-osama-bin-laden-found), at least:

Senior US administration officials, briefing journalists in a late-night teleconference, said that after 9/11 the CIA chased various leads about Bin Laden's inner circle, in particular his couriers. One of these couriers came in for special attention, mentioned by detainees at Guantánamo Bay by his nom de guerre. He was said to be a protege of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the 9/11 mastermind, and one of the few couriers Bin Laden trusted.

Officials said they were initially unable to identify him but finally did so four years ago. They did not disclose his name to reporters on Sunday.

Two years ago, the CIA found the rough location where the courier and his brother lived in Pakistan, and on August last year they narrowed it down to a compound in Abbottabad, an affluent area about 35 miles north of Islamabad that had been founded as a British garrison town in the 1840s and named after its first deputy commissioner, Major James Abbott.

They realised immediately this was no normal residence. The walls of the 3,000 sq ft compound were 12-18ft high, topped with barbed wire. There were two security gates, and access to the compound was severely restricted. The main part of the residence was three storeys high but had few windows, and a third-floor terrace was shielded by a privacy wall. Built around five years ago, it was valued at about $1m but had no phone or internet connection.

The two brothers had no known source of income, adding to CIA suspicions. The CIA learned too that there was a family living with them, and that the composition of this family matched Bin Laden's.

Local suspicions were understood to have been aroused by the fact that the residents of the compound burned their rubbish rather than putting it out for collection. Salman Riaz, a film actor, said that five months ago he and a crew tried to do some filming next to the house, but were told to stop by two men who came out. "They told me that this is haram (forbidden) in Islam," he said. He did not know that he had stumbled across a bespoke terrorist hideaway "custom-built to hide someone of significance", according to a US official.

By September, the CIA had determined there was a "strong possibility" that the hideout was Bin Laden's, and by February, they were confident they had the right location. [...]

[Added] NYT (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/world/asia/02reconstruct-capture-osama-bin-laden.html) is also reporting initial info obtained from Gitmo detainees.

Detainees at the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, had given the courier’s pseudonym to American interrogators and said that the man was a protégé of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the confessed mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks.

American intelligence officials said Sunday night that they finally learned the courier’s real name four years ago, but that it took another two years for them to learn the general region where he operated.

Still, it was not until August when they tracked him to the compound in Abbottabad, a medium-sized city about an hour’s drive north of Islamabad, the capital.

operative
05-02-2011, 09:38 AM
Yeah and the investigation has been ongoing for many years, the real politics of this are: this is the best news for the free world in a long time.

That's overstating its impact quite a bit. It's great that we finally got him, but once you get beyond the brief mood boost and the closure for those who lost loved ones on 9/11, there's really not much more to it. Someone else will step in to take his place; AQ is a decentralized organization.

operative
05-02-2011, 09:48 AM
Not everyone is happy: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/05/hamas-leader-condemns-us-killing-osama-bin-laden

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 09:50 AM
Not everyone is happy: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/05/hamas-leader-condemns-us-killing-osama-bin-laden

I am delighted to see that you and the right-wing media are suddenly concerned about Hamas's feelings.

operative
05-02-2011, 09:51 AM
I am delighted to see that you and the right-wing media are suddenly concerned about Hamas's feelings.

I'm not. I'm posting that to remind the loony-left Hamas-apologists exactly who they are.

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 10:17 AM
I'm not. I'm posting that to remind the loony-left Hamas-apologists exactly who they are.

I see. I guess from your previous (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showpost.php?p=206763&postcount=25) post in this thread, I got the impression that your plan for today would be all about injecting spin, in emulation of the RWNM effort to diminish the idea that President Obama deserves credit (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_05/029219.php).

But you wouldn't be that lacking in grace, would you?

operative
05-02-2011, 10:25 AM
I see. I guess from your previous (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showpost.php?p=206763&postcount=25) post in this thread, I got the impression that your plan for today would be all about injecting spin, in emulation of the RWNM effort to diminish the idea that President Obama deserves credit (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_05/029219.php).

But you wouldn't be that lacking in grace, would you?

Obama and Bush warrant some credit but far more goes to those who actually collected the intel and then planned and executed the operation.

Only one side has been politicizing this in this thread, and it isn't mine.

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 10:49 AM
Obama and Bush warrant some credit ...

Singing just like the Cantor (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_05/029221.php), eh?

Only one side has been politicizing this in this thread, and it isn't mine.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/9709/roflba.gif

popcorn_karate
05-02-2011, 11:35 AM
I can think of a number of things I'd rather hear; Cheap Fusion, Cancer Cured, etc, etc.

It's good that he is dead, but I don't see how this changes very much in the big picture. I may be mistaken, but I don't believe Osama had any sort of terrorist super power that made him especially more dangerous then a number of other crazy people. I also don't see this particularly impeding other potential terrorists, considering how glamorous many in that part of the world view martyrs.

yep

Florian
05-02-2011, 12:24 PM
I can think of a number of things I'd rather hear; Cheap Fusion, Cancer Cured, etc, etc..

I agree, but good riddance anyway.

It's good that he is dead, but I don't see how this changes very much in the big picture. I may be mistaken, but I don't believe Osama had any sort of terrorist super power that made him especially more dangerous then a number of other crazy people. I also don't see this particularly impeding other potential terrorists, considering how glamorous many in that part of the world view martyrs.

You have to admit 9/11 was an extraordinary coup. When you consider how well planned it was, with what limited resources, and how it changed the course of history, you have to give Bin Laden some credit for diabolical genius. What is even more extraordinary is that the CIA, with its almost infinite resources, has taken ten years to track down and kill the mastermind behind it all.

handle
05-02-2011, 12:37 PM
yep

When you kids get a little older, you will learn to savor the victories, even if they might not be earth shattering, you take what you can get.
You will also experience memory loss, what good news have we seen lately? I'm still a little sleepy, but I can't think of much right now.

uncle ebeneezer
05-02-2011, 12:38 PM
What is even more extraordinary is that the CIA, with its almost infinite resources, has taken ten years to track down and kill the mastermind behind it all.

Well, one can't help but wonder the difference that it would have made if so many of our resources hadn't gone on that Mesopotamian detour (Iraq.)

handle
05-02-2011, 12:45 PM
That's overstating its impact quite a bit. It's great that we finally got him, but once you get beyond the brief mood boost and the closure for those who lost loved ones on 9/11, there's really not much more to it. Someone else will step in to take his place; AQ is a decentralized organization.

I was trying to deflect the discussion back to a bipartisan victory, at least for the moment. But I wouldn't downplay the efforts of those who have dedicated up ten years to this. Also I think it sends a message to those who might be on the fence as to terrorist as a career choice. (sort of joking about that last bit.)

handle
05-02-2011, 12:49 PM
I was trying to deflect the discussion back to a bipartisan victory, at least for the moment. But I wouldn't downplay the efforts of those who have dedicated up ten years to this. Also I think it sends a message to those who might be on the fence as to terrorist as a career choice. (sort of joking about that last bit.)

Oh and I forgot to mention the impact I think is most important comes of showing much the muslim community celebrating this along with everyone else. I think helps show unity.
I didn't say everyone, so don't even.....

Florian
05-02-2011, 12:50 PM
Well, one can't help but wonder the difference that it would have made if so many of our resources hadn't gone on that Mesopotamian detour (Iraq.)

Are you suggesting that the US government is like former president Gerald Ford? Unable to cross the street and chew gum at the same time?

uncle ebeneezer
05-02-2011, 01:03 PM
Yes, what makes the humor inevitable is that all the Obama-haters are reacting so predictably. I don't think anyone here who leans left would deny that W deserves credit for his part in this achievement. There were many people involved over many years. But the right-wing media, as predicted, want to give credit to everyone except Obama. No matter what you think of his policies, Barrack Hussein Obama is the Comander In Chief and he made the call to go ahead with the mission that finally got Osama Bin Laden. And in celebrating the work of our troops, one should also salute their Commander as well.

uncle ebeneezer
05-02-2011, 01:07 PM
No I'm suggesting that if we took all the manpower and intelligence operations that were in Iraq and used them in the hunt for OBL, it seems probable that this announcement might have come alot sooner.

operative
05-02-2011, 01:24 PM
I was trying to deflect the discussion back to a bipartisan victory, at least for the moment. But I wouldn't downplay the efforts of those who have dedicated up ten years to this. Also I think it sends a message to those who might be on the fence as to terrorist as a career choice. (sort of joking about that last bit.)

Oh I wouldn't downplay their efforts either--it's a great and worthy accomplishment. I just think that people may be a bit too optimistic about the long-term significance in the realm of transnational security. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Florian
05-02-2011, 01:39 PM
No I'm suggesting that if we took all the manpower and intelligence operations that were in Iraq and used them in the hunt for OBL, it seems probable that this announcement might have come alot sooner.

Probably. :) But it is still pretty amazing, to me at least, that the CIA can spend such huge sums of money on intelligence and counterespionage and be so inept. The failure of the CIA to capture Osama bin Laden for ten years is nothing in comparison to its failure to know what was going on in the former Soviet Union.

bjkeefe
05-02-2011, 01:49 PM
When you kids get a little older, you will learn to savor the victories, even if they might not be earth shattering, you take what you can get.

Yes indeed.

AemJeff
05-02-2011, 02:08 PM
Getting Osama: What We Should Have Done In The First Place ... But Republicans Wouldn't Do (http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2011051802/getting-osama-what-we-should-have-done-first-place-republicans-wouldnt-do)

Let's review the record.

In his second term, President Bill Clinton furiously tried to take out Bin Laden, but was not taken seriously by Republicans. A failed missile attack was scorned as an attempt to shift attention away from the Monica Lewinsky scandal. And congressional Republicans helped block a series of Clinton-backed counter-terrorism measures.

In 2001, the Bush administration retained Clinton's top counter-terrorism aide, Richard Clarke, then proceeded to ignore him. Clarke later recounted that while "Bill Clinton was obsessed with getting bin Laden," the Bush team "thought I was a little crazy, a little obsessed with this little terrorist bin Laden. Why wasn't I focused on Iraqi-sponsored terrorism?"

In the months before 9/11, the Bush administration and their conservative allies were pushing Congress to spend billions more on national missile defense. Democrats repeatedly countered that our primary national security threats came from nuclear and biological weapons smuggled in suitcases by terrorists, not missiles from dictators.

The Bush administration response, argued right up until the 9/11 attacks, was that we already spend enough on counter-terrorism. On September 9, 2001, then-Defense Sec. Donald Rumsfeld rebutted calls to increase counter-terrorism funds instead of missile defense by saying, "the United States spends so much money...on terrorists. We spend a $11 billion trying to deal with terrorism and force protection."

After 9/11, the Bush administration did not seriously recalibrate its national security strategy. Instead of organizing a broad multilateral response to extinguish Al Qaeda, President Bush only chased Al Qaeda out of Afghanistan. Osama Bin Laden was able to escape at Tora Bora because Bush outsourced to job to unreliable Afghan warlords.

handle
05-02-2011, 02:24 PM
Probably. :) But it is still pretty amazing, to me at least, that the CIA can spend such huge sums of money on intelligence and counterespionage and be so inept. The failure of the CIA to capture Osama bin Laden for ten years is nothing in comparison to its failure to know what was going on in the former Soviet Union.

And even worse, the failure to know what the KGB was doing in the states.
But I think you are harshing on the OBL thing a bit. I think they were on him in Tora Bora, but the Bush man wanted the locals to go in and get him, pure speculation on my part of course.

handle
05-02-2011, 02:30 PM
Oh I wouldn't downplay their efforts either--it's a great and worthy accomplishment. I just think that people may be a bit too optimistic about the long-term significance in the realm of transnational security. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Agreed, I was looking back, not forward. There's probably some doppelganger of Denville reading this right now and wanting to blow some shit up for whatever subjective rationale he's come up with.

uncle ebeneezer
05-02-2011, 03:34 PM
More on that note from Benen (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_05/029219.php):

Dickerson's description of the president's efforts as "hands-on" seems especially apt given what we know. It was Obama who instructed the CIA to make targeting bin Laden a top priority, breaking with his predecessor. It was Obama who oversaw five national security meetings to oversee plans for this operation. It was Obama who chose this mission, made final preparations, and gave the order.

There's a difference between talking tough and being tough, just as there's a difference between chest-thumping rhetoric and getting the job done.

Mistermix agrees (http://www.balloon-juice.com/2011/05/02/elections-have-consequences-2/)

TwinSwords
05-02-2011, 04:25 PM
I was wondering how much potential intelligence was gathered at the compound.

U.S. forces also recovered what a senior Intelligence official is calling "quite a bit of material."

"There's a robust collection of materials we need to sift through, and we hope to find valuable intelligence that will lead us to other players in Al Qaeda," a senior intelligence official said.

More good news.

JonIrenicus
05-02-2011, 10:04 PM
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/6505/missionupdate.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/5680724572/in/photostream/



A high res version can be found at the flickr link if you right click the image in the right area.

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5226/5680724572_ab0f11237a_o.jpg)


It's a good shot of a moment in time while the group is being updated on the Osama mission.

Don Zeko
05-03-2011, 12:12 AM
Nice catch. Check out Obama's expression.

bjkeefe
05-03-2011, 02:09 AM
Nice catch. Check out Obama's expression.

Zoomed in, with commentary, here (http://wonkette.com/444876/heres-the-death-stare-face-obama-made-waiting-yesterday).

miceelf
05-03-2011, 10:50 AM
That's interesting. What I was putting in Obama's thought bubble was something like "Joe Biden had better have his frickin eyes open!"

JonIrenicus
05-03-2011, 08:06 PM
Nice catch. Check out Obama's expression.


Apparently they were watching a live feed of the raid. The two most expressive people in the photo were Obama and Hillary. Obama a mix of anxiety and worry and edge of his seat hope that his decision was the right one and not going to cost soldiers lives. Hillary looks more visibly jarred, they are probably seeing people get shot dead in real time, not light viewing.

uncle ebeneezer
05-03-2011, 08:23 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Obama was thinking more like "come on, get him, get him."

bjkeefe
05-14-2011, 11:23 PM
So long as we're politicizing this ...

Okay then!

Rightbloggers on the Death of Osama Bin Laden: Eh, No Big Whoop. Thanks, President Bush!

Intro here (http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2011_05_01_archive.html#6274957533680770987), full column here (http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/05/afterbirthers_a.php).

But wait, there's more!

Rightbloggers Explain How Killing Osama Was Bad for Obama, America

Last Sunday, right after President Obama announced the death of Osama Bin Laden, we did a quick scan of rightblogger responses to the event. The brethren basically felt Obama had nothing to do with it and if he did, it wasn't worth doing.

A week has passed. Which means rightbloggers have had time to think about their reactions, and to offer more thoughtful writing on the subject.

And what they thoughtfully wrote was that the death of Bin Laden was a disaster for the Obama Administration, and maybe for us all.

Intro here (http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2011/05/new-voice-column-up-about-longer-term.html), full column here (http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/05/rightbloggers_e_5.php).