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bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 11:57 AM
NYT (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/obamas-long-form-birth-certificate-released/):

Obama’s ‘Long-Form’ Birth Certificate Is Released

President Obama on Wednesday posted online a copy of his “long-form” birth certificate from the state of Hawaii, hoping to finally end a long-simmering conspiracy theory among some conservatives who asserted that he was not born in the United States and was not a legitimate president.

The birth certificate (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/04/28/us/politics/28obama-text.html), which is posted on the White House Web site (http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate), shows that Mr. Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, and is signed by state officials and his mother.

“The President believed the distraction over his birth certificate wasn’t good for the country,” Dan Pfeiffer, the White House communications director, wrote on the Web site Wednesday morning. Mr. Pfeiffer said on the site that Mr. Obama had authorized officials in Hawaii to release the document broadly.

In a statement to the news media Wednesday morning, Mr. Obama said he decided to release the document in an effort to end the “silliness” about his birth that threatened to distract from the serious issues facing the country.

“Over the last two and a half years, I have watched with bemusement,” he said in brief remarks. “I’ve been puzzled by the degree to which this thing just kept on going.”

Mr. Obama said there would be a “segment of people for which, no matter what we put out, this issue will not be put to rest.” [...]

Kerners are go!

So, which do you think there will be more of, wingnuts claiming this is faked, or Very Serious People wingnuts saying all the Birfer nonsense could have been avoided if only Obama had ...

==========
(cf. (http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/9745.html))

uncle ebeneezer
04-27-2011, 12:19 PM
Nice try. The witness "David Smilnar" dotted the "i" on his first name but not his last name. How do you explain THAT?? Or maybe he was nervous about his role in the conspiracy!!1!

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 12:35 PM
Oh man, I wish I didn't have to get back to work. (Home for lunch right now.) I'd love to go out and see what the wingnuts and psychopaths are screaming about on all the conservative blogs. I imagine their derangement, always near a peak, is breaking new records right now.

I predict one major form of the wingnut response will be that he should be impeached (or thrown in prison) for holding on to the long form birth certificate for this long.

stephanie
04-27-2011, 12:46 PM
Orly Taitz has a typically thoughtful and even-handed response. (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/orly_taitz_obamas_long-form_birth_certificate_should_say_negro_not_africa n.php)

uncle ebeneezer
04-27-2011, 12:48 PM
Sully is already ahead of you (http://www.balloon-juice.com/2011/04/27/finding-fault-where-there-is-none/), Twin.

operative
04-27-2011, 12:49 PM
NYT (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/obamas-long-form-birth-certificate-released/):



Kerners are go!

So, which do you think there will be more of, wingnuts claiming this is faked, or Very Serious People wingnuts saying all the Birfer nonsense could have been avoided if only Obama had ...

==========
(cf. (http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/9745.html))

So, Obama releases a document that no serious person cares about, designed to let the MSM talk about it (despite its frivolity) instead of Bernanke's testimony. Yup, I'm far more concerned about the negative indicators on unemployment. But this provides a distraction for the Obama kool-aide drinkers.

uncle ebeneezer
04-27-2011, 12:55 PM
I'm sure the wingnuts desperately hoped for the N-word to be on it.

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 01:03 PM
Sully is already ahead of you (http://www.balloon-juice.com/2011/04/27/finding-fault-where-there-is-none/), Twin.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but Sullivan seems to be taking a sharp turn back towards his old conservative self. It's been unfolding slowly for some time -- I think it started, maybe, when it was discovered that he has a stable of libertarian extremists (like Friedersdorf) writing his posts for him. But it really went into overdrive with his embrace of Paul Ryan's and the Republican Party's plan to kill millions of elderly so that we could afford more tax cuts for the "incredibly burdened" wealthy.

operative
04-27-2011, 01:05 PM
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but Sullivan seems to be taking a sharp turn back towards his old conservative self. It's been unfolding slowly for some time -- I think it started, maybe, when it was discovered that he has a stable of libertarian extremists (like Friedersdorf) writing his posts for him. But it really went into overdrive with his embrace of Paul Ryan's and the Republican Party's plan to kill millions of elderly so that we could afford more tax cuts for the "incredibly burdened" wealthy.

Well, my days of not taking you seriously are coming to a middle.

handle
04-27-2011, 01:05 PM
Orly Taitz has a typically thoughtful and even-handed response. (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/orly_taitz_obamas_long-form_birth_certificate_should_say_negro_not_africa n.php)

Well, this blows the whole thing wide open, because it should have read neither negro, nor african, but mulato! Why it's as if his mom told them what to write, and wanted us to believe his father was a goat herder from Kenya... yea right!

Of course only she knew who the real parents are, and what planet they came from, but she cleverly died to avoid disclosure.... coincidence? Could be, could be!

I just think it's odd that no one has called for the release of the official CIA documents that will provide irrefutable proof of the communist double agent conspiracy of the real parents. I guess we are just going to twiddle our thumbs until this smoke screen turns into a mushroom cloud... just saying.

handle
04-27-2011, 01:07 PM
So, Obama releases a document that no serious person cares about, designed to let the MSM talk about it (despite its frivolity) instead of Bernanke's testimony. Yup, I'm far more concerned about the negative indicators on unemployment. But this provides a distraction for the Obama kool-aide drinkers.

Most of the tea party is non-serious? Good of you to cop to it. Hope you are right.

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 01:08 PM
So, Obama releases a document that no serious person cares about
That's an interesting way to describe 67% of the people in the party you adhere to like a cult.


designed to let the MSM talk about it (despite its frivolity)
The corporate media has been talking about it, despite its frivolity, since the summer of 2008, instead of Bernake's testimony or many other urgent matters more deserving of attention.

Obama said today, in fact, that "we don't have time for" your party's madness.

handle
04-27-2011, 01:09 PM
Well, my days of not taking you seriously are coming to a middle.

LOL Like you could take anyone seriously that doesn't buy your bullshit.

operative
04-27-2011, 01:11 PM
Most of the tea party is non-serious?

Contrary to popular lefty belief, most of the tea party is not birther.

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 01:11 PM
Well, my days of not taking you seriously are coming to a middle.
I can't imagine how deranged I would have to become for you to take me seriously. The less seriously you take me, the better.

operative
04-27-2011, 01:11 PM
Obama said today, in fact, that "we don't have time for" your party's madness.

Which is why he decided to release it the day Bernanke was testifying.

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 01:13 PM
Contrary to popular lefty belief, most of the tea party is not birther.
The thing I've never understood about your constant lying is that the facts are out there in the public for everyone to see -- and yet you lie constantly anyway. Such as your recent hilarious declaration that no one in the GOP wants Trump for president - a statement you made even as there were multiple current polls showing him leading the field.

Please continue: It's one of the many ways you have destroyed your credibility.

handle
04-27-2011, 01:13 PM
Which is why he decided to release it the day Bernanke was testifying.

OMG and what color is the terror alert today?

operative
04-27-2011, 01:14 PM
The thing I've never understood about your constant lying is that the facts are out there in the public for everyone to see --

Except that it's not, because what you believe to be facts are delusions.

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 01:15 PM
Which is why he decided to release it the day Bernanke was testifying.

This is another one of the ways in which you have shown the forum that you are fundamentally dishonest: We all know that you don't actually have any idea why Obama chose to release the certificate today, and whether it was at all related to the testimony. The fact that you assert without qualification that this was his motive shows everyone that you're willing to say anything to advance your ultraconservative agenda.

operative
04-27-2011, 01:15 PM
OMG and what color is the terror alert today?

I suppose that is a way of accepting my point with a tu quo qua.

operative
04-27-2011, 01:16 PM
This is another one of the ways in which you have shown the forum that you are fundamentally dishonest: We all know that you don't actually have any idea why Obama chose to release the certificate today, and whether it was at all related to the testimony. The fact that you assert without qualification that this was his motive shows everyone that you're willing to say anything to advance your ultraconservative agenda.

It's totally a coincidence that he releases an irrelevant bit of information regarding an irrelevant but media saturated "story" in the day when Bernanke is testifying, in the wake of some discouraging jobs numbers and skyrocketing oil costs. Sure, TS. Keep drinking Lord Barack's kool-aide.

chiwhisoxx
04-27-2011, 01:25 PM
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but Sullivan seems to be taking a sharp turn back towards his old conservative self. It's been unfolding slowly for some time -- I think it started, maybe, when it was discovered that he has a stable of libertarian extremists (like Friedersdorf) writing his posts for him. But it really went into overdrive with his embrace of Paul Ryan's and the Republican Party's plan to kill millions of elderly so that we could afford more tax cuts for the "incredibly burdened" wealthy.

you think conor friedersdorf is a libertarian extremist? I don't really think you have a discussion with someone who thinks a person as milquetoast, bland and boring as conor friedersdorf is "extreme".

chiwhisoxx
04-27-2011, 01:27 PM
This is another one of the ways in which you have shown the forum that you are fundamentally dishonest: We all know that you don't actually have any idea why Obama chose to release the certificate today, and whether it was at all related to the testimony. The fact that you assert without qualification that this was his motive shows everyone that you're willing to say anything to advance your ultraconservative agenda.

good, because no one ever assigned motive to George W. Bush without being absolutely certain. we're totally breaking new ground here.

handle
04-27-2011, 01:28 PM
I suppose that is a way of accepting my point with a tu quo qua.

It's actually my way of saying who gives a shit, but one thing that leaps off your posts is you really don't care if it's not you saying it

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 01:29 PM
Due out May 17:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CgkKMDpdL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

handle
04-27-2011, 01:31 PM
It's actually my way of saying who gives a shit, but one thing that leaps off your posts is you really don't care if it's not you saying it

Oh, and unlike you, I'm not reckless enough to deploy the "you do it toooo!!!" defense.
Added: Because when I have egg on my face I say "damn, I have egg on my face". See, when you just say "you had egg on your face too once" you look like a two year old. I guess Hayek didn't cover that?

handle
04-27-2011, 01:32 PM
[QUOTE=TwinSwords;205833]Due out May 17:


Priceless.... literally.

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 01:32 PM
you think conor friedersdorf is a libertarian extremist? I don't really think you have a discussion with someone who thinks a person as milquetoast, bland and boring as conor friedersdorf is "extreme".

Oh, he has the manner of a blue state Republican. He's exactly the kind of mild mannered, calm, not-obviously-insane conservative that liberals love to pet and play with. But he wanted Rand Paul to get elected Senator from Kentucky. He's supporting Ron Paul for president. That makes him a far-right extremist. You can't support the effective abolition of democracy and the US government and programs that will lead to massive death and poverty and NOT be an extremist.

operative
04-27-2011, 01:38 PM
Oh, he has the manner of a blue state Republican. He's exactly the kind of mild mannered, calm, not-obviously-insane conservative that liberals love to pet and play with. But he wanted Rand Paul to get elected Senator from Kentucky. He's supporting Ron Paul for president. That makes him a far-right extremist. You can't support the effective abolition of democracy and the US government and programs that will lead to massive death and poverty and NOT be an extremist.

Please show where Ron Paul supports the abolition of democracy.

stephanie
04-27-2011, 01:39 PM
good, because no one ever assigned motive to George W. Bush without being absolutely certain. we're totally breaking new ground here.

And no one ever did so to Gore or to Clinton.

This could go on forever, and it's tiresome.

I realize that it may seem to you that no one ever said anything negative in politics before mean liberals (only some of them, whatever it might have felt like to you at the time) said mean things about poor, saintly Bush, but the fact is it's not. At a certain point can we talk about whether behavior is useful on its own without getting into whether other people who might be on the same side might have done something similar to Bush?

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 01:43 PM
Sully is already ahead of you (http://www.balloon-juice.com/2011/04/27/finding-fault-where-there-is-none/), Twin.

Great post by JC. Thanks for the link.

AemJeff
04-27-2011, 01:49 PM
good, because no one ever assigned motive to George W. Bush without being absolutely certain. we're totally breaking new ground here.
I'm pretty sure all kinds of motives were assigned to GWB by people with axes to grind. What does that have to do with whether or not op is an idiot?

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 01:50 PM
So, Obama releases a document that no serious person cares about, designed to let the MSM talk about it (despite its frivolity) instead of Bernanke's testimony. Yup, I'm far more concerned about the negative indicators on unemployment. But this provides a distraction for the Obama kool-aide drinkers.

Says the clown who, like Donald Trump (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showpost.php?p=205795&postcount=36), won't shut up about Obama's school records.

operative
04-27-2011, 01:52 PM
Says the clown who, like Donald Trump (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showpost.php?p=205795&postcount=36), won't shut up about Obama's school records.

http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=205556#post205556

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 01:53 PM
http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=205556#post205556

Yeah, keep posting that link, oppie. If that's the best you got, you got nothing, and all you're doing is confirming it to the new members of this board.

I notice you don't deny that you're on the same page as Donald Trump (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showpost.php?p=205795&postcount=36).

operative
04-27-2011, 01:55 PM
Yeah, keep posting that link, oppie. If that's the best you got, you got nothing, and all you're doing is confirming it to the new members of this board.

Sorry BJ but you don't get to hide from the truth. If you just admit that you were either a) delusional or b) deceitful, then perhaps we could move on in spite of your misplaced self-righteousness. But until then, this isn't going away.

stephanie
04-27-2011, 01:57 PM
Oh, he has the manner of a blue state Republican.

Yup, and he rejects certain RW rhetorical tactics. That seems to be why he's disliked by some of the more extreme types, regardless of his views. (See, e.g., rcocean, who both is mad at the Dems for not doing enough to protect SocSec and limit free trade and yet seems to also like Republicans like Bachmann and Palin and the like who have given no signs that that are remotely in favor of more traditionally left-wing economic policies such as these. Okay, Palin did in AK, as she was all pro taxing oil companies and subsidizing agriculture, but she's been trying to get people to forget about it mostly.)

He's exactly the kind of mild mannered, calm, not-obviously-insane conservative that liberals love to pet and play with.

I don't think this is totally fair. I like him (and Douthat and so on) because they will actually talk about issues. I don't much care if someone differs from me on issues (with the acknowledgement that taking some positions puts you outside the realm of reasonable discussion). I mind if they are unwilling to argue in a logical way or distort their opponent's positions for rhetorical purposes or lie about the facts or so on.

He's supporting Ron Paul for president. That makes him a far-right extremist.

It depends on why he's supporting Paul. If it's solely because he thinks his ideas about foreign policy and the drug war are ones that should be an important part of the conversation about what the right should adopt going forward, I'd say he is neither necessarily all that RW nor is he milquetoast. (I think the latter accusation is quite unfair.)

If it's also because he's a real, hard-core libertarian (I think he has leanings, as demonstrated by some of his comments in the diavlogue with Noah Millman), then I think he's more properly characterized as an extremist. Whether RW or not, I'm undecided just because the RW in the US isn't really truly libertarian. (Though I'd certainly put those ideas on the right.)

You can't support the effective abolition of democracy and the US government and programs that will lead to massive death and poverty and NOT be an extremist.

Eh, I don't think Conor would say that he supports these things or that his ideas would lead to them. (I don't think he's a pure enough libertarian for that -- he'd want the government to do something to ameliorate the effects of abolishing Medicare and all that.)

On the other hand, I think his ideas are clearly extreme, as in unsupported by the vast majority of Americans, even in the Republican Party, and generally from the right. So it seems this argument is mainly about semantics.

But ultimately, he's sure not a Rockefeller Republican or some kind of moderate, just because he dislikes certain kinds of populist and demonizing rhetoric intended to appeal to the base. He's just also not really a member of the "base" as (correctly, I think) described by Sarah Posner and Michael Daugherty in their recent diavlogue.

That Andrew Sullivan would find many of the same ideas that Conor does appealing is not surprising. I've only found it bizarre that anyone ever thought it made sense to characterize Sullivan as a liberal or part of the left (which, granted, was mainly people on the right).

chiwhisoxx
04-27-2011, 01:57 PM
I'm pretty sure all kinds of motives were assigned to GWB by people with axes to grind. What does that have to do with whether or not op is an idiot?

replying to you, because stephanie missed the point so badly it isn't worth responding to. has nothing to do with operative either way. I just think "assigning motives" is something we do a lot of in politics. Screw it, not even in just politics, but in all walks of life. so criticizing someone for doing it...rings a bit hollow. you can point out that he isn't sure, but we aren't sure about lots of things that we guess about. the better thing to say would be: "we aren't sure, but it's almost certain that you're wrong" rather than just criticize him for assigning motive.

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 01:58 PM
Sorry BJ ...

Apology accepted.

operative
04-27-2011, 02:00 PM
Apology accepted.

You remain desperately deluded. Pathetic, really.

operative
04-27-2011, 02:02 PM
And no one ever did so to Gore or to Clinton.

This could go on forever, and it's tiresome.

I realize that it may seem to you that no one ever said anything negative in politics before mean liberals (only some of them, whatever it might have felt like to you at the time) said mean things about poor, saintly Bush, but the fact is it's not. At a certain point can we talk about whether behavior is useful on its own without getting into whether other people who might be on the same side might have done something similar to Bush?

Politicians behave strategically. It's pretty clear that Obama was calculating the best time to release the long-form birth certificate, to maximize the positive return on it. It's little different than a politician who pushes to delay the release of, say, good economic news until a different date to maximize the return, or the timing of VP selection during the campaign process. Politics is strategic. So why in the world should we not look at the strategy of a decision?

AemJeff
04-27-2011, 02:04 PM
replying to you, because stephanie missed the point so badly it isn't worth responding to. has nothing to do with operative either way. I just think "assigning motives" is something we do a lot of in politics. Screw it, not even in just politics, but in all walks of life. so criticizing someone for doing it...rings a bit hollow. you can point out that he isn't sure, but we aren't sure about lots of things that we guess about. the better thing to say would be: "we aren't sure, but it's almost certain that you're wrong" rather than just criticize him for assigning motive.

The critique is based on him saying things for which there's no foundation. Regardless of who is talking, or what the topic is, it's something most reasonable people seem to try to avoid. I don't think that's a hollow criticism, and there seems to be a pattern to support the proposition that it isn't just an isolated thing.

handle
04-27-2011, 02:08 PM
I just think "assigning motives" is something we do a lot of in politics. Screw it, not even in just politics, but in all walks of life. so criticizing someone for doing it...rings a bit hollow.

Good 'cause I think you guys are just chiming in here out of embarrassment as a result of just letting the birther thing ride. And I'll even go out on a limb and speculate that you were secretly hoping it worked. Op just keeps going to his one move play book that reads "change the discussion" or the "Mad Men" season 3 ploy.
Hows that for assigning motives?

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 02:09 PM
You remain desperately deluded. Pathetic, really.

Noted for the record.

operative
04-27-2011, 02:11 PM
The critique is based on him saying things for which there's no foundation.
Ok I'll try to make things very simple for you.

Syllogism:
Politicians behave strategically.
Barack Obama is a politician.
Therefore, Barack Obama behaves strategically.

Observance:
In behaving strategically, politicians attempt to time the release of press conferences and other bits of disclosure to either maximize benefits or minimize costs--in other words, to derive the best utility possible. Hence Friday data dumps, etc.
Barack Obama chose today to release the birth certificate. He did not do so randomly, unless you are inclined to doubt the syllogism. He picked it for a reason. So, if you have an alternative reason why he picked today, perhaps that he's scared of the intellectual force that is Jerome Corsi*, speak up.

Unless you think that Lord Barack is of a nobler class of men, that is.




*sarcasm, for those less adept

operative
04-27-2011, 02:12 PM
Noted for the record.

The record:
http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=205556#post205556

chiwhisoxx
04-27-2011, 02:12 PM
Good 'cause I think you guys are just chiming in here out of embarrassment as a result of just letting the birther thing ride. And I'll even go out on a limb and speculate that you were secretly hoping it worked. Op just keeps going to his one move play book that reads "change the discussion" or the "Mad Men" season 3 ploy.
Hows that for assigning motives?

yes, as a result of my silence, the birther phenomenon grew out of control. I sincerely apologize.

operative
04-27-2011, 02:13 PM
yes, as a result of my silence, the birther phenomenon grew out of control. I sincerely apologize.

We possess such power, and yet we seldom realize it.

handle
04-27-2011, 02:15 PM
yes, as a result of my silence, the birther phenomenon grew out of control. I sincerely apologize.

Is that what I said? Hmmm. Note to self: work on communication skills.

handle
04-27-2011, 02:19 PM
We possess such power, and yet we seldom realize it.

What are you doing here O' sarcastic one, if not trying to change the discussion, as per one of your favorite TV shows?

operative
04-27-2011, 02:20 PM
What are you doing here O' sarcastic one, if not trying to change the discussion, as per one of your favorite TV shows?

Shining the light of civilization.

chiwhisoxx
04-27-2011, 02:20 PM
Is that what I said? Hmmm. Note to self: work on communication skills.

well, then what did you mean by "letting the birther thing ride"?

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 02:24 PM
The record:
http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=205556#post205556

#3

handle
04-27-2011, 02:29 PM
well, then what did you mean by "letting the birther thing ride"?

Well, when the truthers come in here I harass them out of existence, 'cause it's fun and easy for one thing, and they are full of shit for another, and I don't like paving the way for declarations of false equivalence.

handle
04-27-2011, 02:31 PM
Shining the light of civilization.

LOL! The Don Draper of BHTV!

chiwhisoxx
04-27-2011, 02:39 PM
Well, when the truthers come in here I harass them out of existence, 'cause it's fun and easy for one thing, and they are full of shit for another, and I don't like paving the way for declarations of false equivalence.

well, good for you I suppose, but for one thing, that's not how I choose to spend my time. I don't think deciding not to harass them out of evidence is tacitly endorsing them anyway. regardless, how many birthers are on this board? I count denvillesteve, and I can't think of anyone else. and I try to give DS as much shit as the next guy, if not more.

operative
04-27-2011, 02:43 PM
well, good for you I suppose, but for one thing, that's not how I choose to spend my time. I don't think deciding not to harass them out of evidence is tacitly endorsing them anyway. regardless, how many birthers are on this board? I count denvillesteve, and I can't think of anyone else. and I try to give DS as much shit as the next guy, if not more.

Maybe rc is, not real sure.

handle
04-27-2011, 02:43 PM
well, good for you I suppose, but for one thing, that's not how I choose to spend my time. I don't think deciding not to harass them out of evidence is tacitly endorsing them anyway. regardless, how many birthers are on this board? I count denvillesteve, and I can't think of anyone else. and I try to give DS as much shit as the next guy, if not more.

You misread me sir, I said out of existence, and If I was wrong about your secret desires for the strategy to work, then why are you guys* in this thread acting all defensive and shit? why not just let it go?

*Sorry to lump you in with the OP.. in a hurry right now..

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 02:44 PM
regardless, how many birthers are on this board? I count denvillesteve, and I can't think of anyone else.

Consider also the diavloggers.

handle
04-27-2011, 02:51 PM
Consider also the diavloggers.

Some of them (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=204883#post204883) also comment on occasion. And one's initials are used as a short name for the program she should be a member of, anonymously, of course..

operative
04-27-2011, 02:53 PM
Some of them (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=204883#post204883) also comment on occasion. And one's initials are used as a short name for the program she should be a member of, anonymously, of course..

That suggests that Ann was birther-curious, in the same way that BJ is truther-curious.

handle
04-27-2011, 02:56 PM
That suggests that Ann was birther-curious, in the same way that BJ is truther-curious.

And since you are not, you never entered this thread trying to change the subject.

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 02:56 PM
[...]

So, which do you think there will be more of, wingnuts claiming this is faked, or Very Serious People wingnuts saying all the Birfer nonsense could have been avoided if only Obama had ...

Damn. I forgot the third kind, the WingNutDaily kind (http://wonkette.com/444312/the-modern-world-comes-to-a-standstill-as-worldnetdaily-responds-to-birth-certificate):

But it is important to remember there are still dozens of other questions concerning this question of eligibility ...

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 02:58 PM
And since you are not, you never entered this thread trying to change the subject.

It really is amazing how furiously the operative has been posting in this thread, isn't it?

operative
04-27-2011, 03:01 PM
It really is amazing how furiously the operative has been posting in this thread, isn't it?

Yup, it's all that Koch money*







---
* yes, folks, that's sarcasm.

stephanie
04-27-2011, 03:04 PM
replying to you, because stephanie missed the point so badly it isn't worth responding to. has nothing to do with operative either way. I just think "assigning motives" is something we do a lot of in politics. Screw it, not even in just politics, but in all walks of life. so criticizing someone for doing it...rings a bit hollow. you can point out that he isn't sure, but we aren't sure about lots of things that we guess about. the better thing to say would be: "we aren't sure, but it's almost certain that you're wrong" rather than just criticize him for assigning motive.

If your only point is "everyone assigns motives in politics, there's nothing wrong with that," it seems odd that you decided to mix that with one of your common references to liberals saying stuff about Bush. Given that you've complained in the past that liberals did to Bush all the mean stuff they are complaining about, it's hard to see how you would have expected everyone to understand the reference to Bush this time to mean "totally normal and acceptable political behavior that everyone engages in."

That said, I don't see how I missed the point all that much, as your clarification doesn't change my response. The issue still has nothing to do with what people (especially other people, not here) did or did not say about Bush. The issue is whether there's anything wrong with the accusation on its face. I think there is. Specifically, I think it's evidence that no matter what Obama does, certain people, including operative, are going to find a basis to see awful, awful things in it. Not request the "long form birth certificate" and he's causing nutcase RWers to flip out over it and distracting from what "serious people" want to talk about. Request and release it, and -- shock -- we get basically the same accusation.

The fact is that this wouldn't be an issue and wouldn't be detracting from whatever operative and you supposedly want to talk about if there weren't nutcase RWers flipping out over it. Much as you may want to believe it, the birther thing is not the creation of Dems, and is not unimportant to certain dynamics in the country. We'll see if this makes it unimportant, though I doubt it.

I don't think you needed to spend any time slamming birthers if you don't want (though to the extent that people take DS seriously and as someone to encourage -- which I don't particularly recall you doing, but several of the RWers on this board have -- I do think there is a responsibility to confront him on his more insane views or be tainted by them). In fact, I think it would be better if the birther thing were not a major topic of conversation here at all, as it's stupid, and deserving only of the mocking it was getting.

Oddly, enough, however, whenever it comes up, and the mocking starts, we get objections from RW participants. Usually (other than DS) of the "hmm, it must be Obama's nefariousness that this issue exists, as he could quash it if he wanted" variety, but now that that's no longer available, I see we are getting a different tactic.

If you don't want to comment on birthers -- and again, I think that's fine, I just mock or ignore the left-wing versions thereof -- why would you feel compelled to jump into this discussion? I don't get it.

handle
04-27-2011, 03:06 PM
Yup, it's all that Koch money*
---
* yes, folks, that's sarcasm.

And who (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=205467#post205467) was it that said "Sarcasm is better when it is clever"?

operative
04-27-2011, 03:13 PM
And who (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=205467#post205467) was it that said "Sarcasm is better when it is clever"?

The banality of the sarcasm is a direct consequence of the banality of the charges often parroted by the truther-curious BJKeefe.

handle
04-27-2011, 03:17 PM
The banality of the sarcasm is a direct consequence of the banality of the charges often parroted by the truther-curious BJKeefe.

Flail... weak.....sputter.. die.

chiwhisoxx
04-27-2011, 03:26 PM
If your only point is "everyone assigns motives in politics, there's nothing wrong with that," it seems odd that you decided to mix that with one of your common references to liberals saying stuff about Bush. Given that you've complained in the past that liberals did to Bush all the mean stuff they are complaining about, it's hard to see how you would have expected everyone to understand the reference to Bush this time to mean "totally normal and acceptable political behavior that everyone engages in."

That said, I don't see how I missed the point all that much, as your clarification doesn't change my response. The issue still has nothing to do with what people (especially other people, not here) did or did not say about Bush. The issue is whether there's anything wrong with the accusation on its face. I think there is. Specifically, I think it's evidence that no matter what Obama does, certain people, including operative, are going to find a basis to see awful, awful things in it. Not request the "long form birth certificate" and he's causing nutcase RWers to flip out over it and distracting from what "serious people" want to talk about. Request and release it, and -- shock -- we get basically the same accusation.

The fact is that this wouldn't be an issue and wouldn't be detracting from whatever operative and you supposedly want to talk about if there weren't nutcase RWers flipping out over it. Much as you may want to believe it, the birther thing is not the creation of Dems, and is not unimportant to certain dynamics in the country. We'll see if this makes it unimportant, though I doubt it.

I don't think you needed to spend any time slamming birthers if you don't want (though to the extent that people take DS seriously and as someone to encourage -- which I don't particularly recall you doing, but several of the RWers on this board have -- I do think there is a responsibility to confront him on his more insane views or be tainted by them). In fact, I think it would be better if the birther thing were not a major topic of conversation here at all, as it's stupid, and deserving only of the mocking it was getting.

Oddly, enough, however, whenever it comes up, and the mocking starts, we get objections from RW participants. Usually (other than DS) of the "hmm, it must be Obama's nefariousness that this issue exists, as he could quash it if he wanted" variety, but now that that's no longer available, I see we are getting a different tactic.

If you don't want to comment on birthers -- and again, I think that's fine, I just mock or ignore the left-wing versions thereof -- why would you feel compelled to jump into this discussion? I don't get it.

yes it is

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53563.html

handle
04-27-2011, 03:26 PM
Flail... weak.....sputter.. die.

That was the sound of the repub operative falling on his sword to distract from the embarrassment of his party's insanity being exposed for what it is.

Nice try, loved the result!

stephanie
04-27-2011, 03:30 PM
yes it is

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53563.html

Oh, please.

chiwhisoxx
04-27-2011, 03:44 PM
Oh, please.

yes, I was mostly kidding. it's mainly republicans pushing birther nonsense. hope we're all happy now!

operative
04-27-2011, 03:50 PM
yes, I was mostly kidding. it's mainly republicans pushing birther nonsense. hope we're all happy now!

I think it'd be more accurate to say that it's mostly fringe figures. Lefties can find maybe one or two actually remotely-notable members of the GOP who have at one point or another said something birther-curious, which would put them in the same league as truther-curious Howard Dean.

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 04:23 PM
It really is amazing how furiously the operative has been posting in this thread, isn't it?

Ah, now it becomes clear:

I think it'd be more accurate to say that it's mostly fringe figures. Lefties can find maybe one or two actually remotely-notable members of the GOP who have at one point or another said something birther-curious ...

It's all about rewriting history!

However, I suppose if you define the bulk of the Republican Party as "fringe figures" and large numbers of their elected officials as "remotely-notable," the operative could be said not to be lying.

Oh, and we'll have to redefine "one or two," also, I guess.

Don Zeko
04-27-2011, 04:26 PM
Well, my days of not taking you seriously are coming to a middle.

I appreciate the Firefly quote, I really do. And that is a line from a particularly good episode. And yes, Twin is making his point in a maximalist way that would have to be walked back to be 100% right, there is a difference between killing someone and allowing someone to die a preventable death, etc. etc. etc.. But come on dude. Ryan's plan slashes Medicaid funding by a third while cutting taxes on the rich. The moral calculus at work in his plan is positively demented.

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 04:26 PM
... the truther-curious BJKeefe.

Flail... weak.....sputter.. die.

Also, another one of the operative's flat-out lies, noted for the record.

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 04:30 PM
[...]

So, which do you think there will be more of, wingnuts claiming this is faked, or Very Serious People wingnuts saying all the Birfer nonsense could have been avoided if only Obama had ...

Damn. I forgot the third kind, the WingNutDaily kind (http://wonkette.com/444312/the-modern-world-comes-to-a-standstill-as-worldnetdaily-responds-to-birth-certificate):

But it is important to remember there are still dozens of other questions concerning this question of eligibility ...

Good news: B'head Alex Pareene is here to help (http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/04/27/next_birthers/index.html)!

The birther's guide to staying relevant in a post-"long form" world

Among other benefits: the coining of a term to describe the operative's (and his hero Donald Trump's) new obsession: schoolerism.

[Added] But wait, there's more! From Jack Stuef (http://wonkette.com/444363/a-childrens-treasury-of-brand-new-birther-theories-to-explain-eveything):

A Children’s Treasury of Brand-New Birther Theories To Explain Eveything

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 04:46 PM
http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=205556#post205556

#2

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 05:15 PM
Posted just two days ago; i.e., avant le déluge:

NEW VOICE COLUMN UP, about recent developments in birtherism.

Intro here (http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2011/04/new-voice-column-up-about-recent.html), full column here (http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/04/battle_of_birth.php).

Some predictions that are almost as far off base as this one (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showpost.php?p=205895&postcount=34).

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 05:32 PM
Due out May 17:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CgkKMDpdL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Eh. You know who'll buy this? According to one highly confident spokesman, "mostly fringe figures (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showpost.php?p=205904&highlight=mostly+fringe+figures&postcount=25)."

So much for the reliability of that source!

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/452/corsibirferbook.png

Although I am sure he will be along to tell us his assertion Was Not Intended To Be A Factual Statement®.

(from (http://www.amazon.com/Wheres-Birth-Certificate-Eligible-President/dp/1936488299/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1303690733&sr=1-1) | via (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showpost.php?p=205915&postcount=40))

Wonderment
04-27-2011, 05:59 PM
Anyone agree with me that it was a mistake for Obama to cave in and pony up the Long Form to appease the delusional right?

The only upside I see is that a handful of "centrist" Republicans who pander to the lunatic fringe will be somewhat chastened and less inclined to keep birtherism on the front burner.

The downside is that Obama looks weak by answering scurrilous and idiotic charges proffered by a pack of paranoics.

operative
04-27-2011, 06:02 PM
Anyone agree with me that it was a mistake for Obama to cave in and pony up the Long Form to appease the delusional right?

The only upside I see is that a handful of "centrist" Republicans who pander to the lunatic fringe will be somewhat chastened and less inclined to keep birtherism on the front burner.

The downside is that Obama looks weak by answering scurrilous and idiotic charges proffered by a pack of paranoics.

For someone who champions non-violent discourse you sure have a way with name-calling ;)

Your perception of the GOP is simply utterly flawed. No major GOP figure embraced birtherism. Moreover, not only did major players like Tim Pawlenty cleary denounce it, but even more conservative members like Jan Brewer. So give me a break with this nonsense.

stephanie
04-27-2011, 06:05 PM
Anyone agree with me that it was a mistake for Obama to cave in and pony up the Long Form to appease the delusional right?

Eh, one can second-guess the timing -- might have been better to wait until later -- but what's the real harm? It's not going to cause the issue to go down and they'll find some alternative reason to blame the nutcases on Obama (I can't think of how now, but they will), but it does take the wind out of some of the "well, I'm not a birther but one does wonder" people.

A whole lot of people seem really committed to declaring this a victory for Trump, but I don't get that. (But then a whole lot of people seemed excited to claim that "progressives" were scared of Trump, which is hilarious.)

handle
04-27-2011, 06:07 PM
For someone who champions non-violent discourse you sure have a way with name-calling ;)

Your perception of the GOP is simply utterly flawed. No major GOP figure embraced birtherism. Moreover, not only did major players like Tim Pawlenty cleary denounce it, but even more conservative members like Jan Brewer. So give me a break with this nonsense.

Just the number one most popular candidate for the president of the United States of Trumperica. And that's how he rose to the top of the shit heap!

operative
04-27-2011, 06:10 PM
The Birther story was 4% of newshole, not the dominant story.
http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/top-stories/129708/factchecking-obama-birther-controversy-was-3-4-of-newshole-economy-was-39/

Another example of Obama the tool being all too happy to parrot lazy, stupid rhetoric. Harvard law at its finest.

operative
04-27-2011, 06:10 PM
Just the number one most popular candidate for the president of the United States of Trumperica. And that's how he rose to the top of the shit heap!

Yeah, just a joke who no serious commentator regards as anything other than a joke.

handle
04-27-2011, 06:13 PM
Yeah, just a joke who no serious commentator regards as anything other than a joke.

It's not a joke when you think tankers get blind sided by the actual poll numbers, but you damn well know that.

operative
04-27-2011, 06:15 PM
It's not a joke when you think tankers get blind sided by the actual poll numbers, but you damn well know that.

Poll numbers at this point are a measure of nothing more than name recognition. And if you don't believe me, please bet me $50 that Trump will win a primary, being the 'frontrunner' and all that nonsense.

handle
04-27-2011, 06:16 PM
The Birther story was 4% of newshole, not the dominant story.
http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/top-stories/129708/factchecking-obama-birther-controversy-was-3-4-of-newshole-economy-was-39/

Another example of Obama the tool being all too happy to parrot lazy, stupid rhetoric. Harvard law at its finest.

If it's such ado about nothing I'll ask you again: Why are you scrambling to minimize the blowback here in this thread?
Your posts are self evident that whats in them is nothing but damage control spin.

handle
04-27-2011, 06:18 PM
Poll numbers at this point are a measure of nothing more than name recognition. And if you don't believe me, please bet me $50 that Trump will win a primary, being the 'frontrunner' and all that nonsense.

That's the data we have, and I wouldn't give you a plug nickel for him NOW.

operative
04-27-2011, 06:18 PM
If it's such ado about nothing I'll ask you again: Why are you scrambling to minimize the blowback here in this thread?
Your posts are self evident that whats in them is nothing but damage control spin.
It is ado about nothing, and I'm raining on your parade to remind you that nobody really cares. It also helps that Obama told a blatant falsehood in his little talk.

handle
04-27-2011, 06:20 PM
It is ado about nothing, and I'm raining on your parade to remind you that nobody really cares. It also helps that Obama told a blatant falsehood in his little talk.
Conclusion: you are nobody. Folks, he's finally making some sense, in spite of himself.

Ocean
04-27-2011, 06:24 PM
Anyone agree with me that it was a mistake for Obama to cave in and pony up the Long Form to appease the delusional right?


Anyone agree with me that this is the most typical example of damned if you do, damned if you don't?

Give me a break, David. Seriously.

I don't know what would have been better or worse, because there is no better or worse response to craziness. Releasing the certificate may appease some, while others will find fault with it. Screw them all! Who cares? Let them talk. It's just plain crazy. I'm not joining that craziness. Obama released the certificate? Great, good for him! He didn't release it before? Great, good for him! It's never been a serious issue. Let it die.

Wonderment
04-27-2011, 06:28 PM
A whole lot of people seem really committed to declaring this a victory for Trump, but I don't get that. (But then a whole lot of people seemed excited to claim that "progressives" were scared of Trump, which is hilarious.)

I am actually kind of scared of Trump, and I think this event suggests that the Dem. establishment is too.

I don't think Trump has a prayer of winning an election (I have promised to move to Pluto if he does), but he's the kind of simpleton populist (gazillionaire, I know) who can do a lot of harm because he is a master of getting the attention of voters who do little serious thinking and lots of raw emoting. He's not as inarticulate and undereducated as Sarah Palin, but he has the same sort of appeal to angry white nationalists. His narcissism, megalomania and mindless bluster remind me of fascist leaders of the 1930s.

chiwhisoxx
04-27-2011, 06:32 PM
Anyone agree with me that this is the most typical example of damned if you do, damned if you don't?

Give me a break, David. Seriously.

I don't know what would have been better or worse, because there is no better or worse response to craziness. Releasing the certificate may appease some, while others will find fault with it. Screw them all! Who cares? Let them talk. It's just plain crazy. I'm not joining that craziness. Obama released the certificate? Great, good for him! He didn't release it before? Great, good for him! It's never been a serious issue. Let it die.

I mostly agree with this. I don't really think there was an easy choice. There's absolutely no evidence that people who believe in conspiracy theories are ever actually swayed by evidence. On the other hand, I understand the urge to shut up the "well, why not just put it to bed?" crowd.

operative
04-27-2011, 06:38 PM
I am actually kind of scared of Trump, and I think this event suggests that the Dem. establishment is too.

I don't think Trump has a prayer of winning an election (I have promised to move to Pluto if he does), but he's the kind of simpleton populist (gazillionaire, I know) who can do a lot of harm because he is a master of getting the attention of voters who do little serious thinking and lots of raw emoting. He's not as inarticulate and undereducated as Sarah Palin, but he has the same sort of appeal to angry white nationalists. His narcissism, megalomania and mindless bluster remind me of fascist leaders of the 1930s.

Usually I'd condemn the f word but while I find your comparison to be a bit superficial ('mindless bluster'), there actually is grounds for at least a bit of comparison. His message is nationalistic, anti-foreigner, and based in weird tough guy rhetoric. Economic nationalism is usually an element of fascist movements. I can think of plenty on the Left who fit this model even better--for instance, the fascist filmmakers of Inside Job.

Nevertheless, you concede that Trump has no chance of winning an election (and you should confess that he has no chance of getting the nomination, while you're at it). So unless you think the Donald is going to take a break from his reality show to lead a militant March on Washington, the rest of your fears seem to be completely unwarranted.

AemJeff
04-27-2011, 06:39 PM
Eh, one can second-guess the timing -- might have been better to wait until later -- but what's the real harm? It's not going to cause the issue to go down and they'll find some alternative reason to blame the nutcases on Obama (I can't think of how now, but they will), but it does take the wind out of some of the "well, I'm not a birther but one does wonder" people.

A whole lot of people seem really committed to declaring this a victory for Trump, but I don't get that. (But then a whole lot of people seemed excited to claim that "progressives" were scared of Trump, which is hilarious.)

I pretty much agree with this. I think the issue is deeply marginalized now, and if Trump keeps hammering at related issues he's likely, I think, to look like an obvious opportunist even to people who aren't really following this stuff very closely, and even to many of the people who who were willing to entertain the notion up until now. I'm really not sure they could have chosen a better moment to dispose of it (and Trump was inevitably going to declare victory whatever they did.)

AemJeff
04-27-2011, 06:47 PM
I am actually kind of scared of Trump, and I think this event suggests that the Dem. establishment is too.

I don't think Trump has a prayer of winning an election (I have promised to move to Pluto if he does), but he's the kind of simpleton populist (gazillionaire, I know) who can do a lot of harm because he is a master of getting the attention of voters who do little serious thinking and lots of raw emoting. He's not as inarticulate and undereducated as Sarah Palin, but he has the same sort of appeal to angry white nationalists. His narcissism, megalomania and mindless bluster remind me of fascist leaders of the 1930s.

Reading comments over at the Corner, it becomes evident that a lot of those folks are convinced he's a mole, false flagging his real loyalties to make the Republican's look ridiculous. It is true that his political donations have leaned heavily (2:1) toward Democrats, and he was a big contributor to Rahm Emmanuel's campaign. My guess is that it's all about him and that he really doesn't care what the downstream effects of his actions will be, except insofar as his name is being spoken. I think that makes him dangerous to everybody, on all sides.

Wonderment
04-27-2011, 06:58 PM
His message is nationalistic, anti-foreigner, and based in weird tough guy rhetoric. Economic nationalism is usually an element of fascist movements.

Right.

Nevertheless, you concede that Trump has no chance of winning an election (and you should confess that he has no chance of getting the nomination, while you're at it). So unless you think the Donald is going to take a break from his reality show to lead a militant March on Washington, the rest of your fears seem to be completely unwarranted.

It's not only Trump personally that I worry about. More disturbingly, he reflects US-voter susceptibility to extremist voices on the right.

I don't think there's any equivalent on the left. There are left-wing crackpots, but they have a very small following, and certainly nothing remotely resembling Trump or Palin's capacity to mesmerize the media and set the national talking points agenda.

stephanie
04-27-2011, 07:03 PM
I am actually kind of scared of Trump, and I think this event suggests that the Dem. establishment is too.

I'm not convinced of that. I think it's just to shut up those blaming Obama for not making the issue go away. I really don't think Trump added anything new to the issue (or to the nationalistic, xenophobic, RW-populist, paranoid side of American politics) -- just brought it some new life, brought into the media what's been there all along.

I don't think Trump has a prayer of winning an election

Nope. The Republicans aren't going to let him get the nomination, they aren't that electorally stupid, and if he runs as a third party candidate he obviously has no chance.

he's the kind of simpleton populist (gazillionaire, I know) who can do a lot of harm because he is a master of getting the attention of voters who do little serious thinking and lots of raw emoting. He's not as inarticulate and undereducated as Sarah Palin, but he has the same sort of appeal to angry white nationalists. His narcissism, megalomania and mindless bluster remind me of fascist leaders of the 1930s.

I agree a good bit of this, but I don't find it (or Trump himself, that is) especially worrisome for a few reasons. First, the most worrisome element (and this is indeed worrisome) -- that there's this sentiment that's there to be channeled -- was already true. What's scary is the idea that it will be channeled by a mainstream candidate who will then be somewhat beholden to this segment of the population or find a way to make these issues mainstream. I don't think this will happen, but it would scare me. But Trump's not the guy.

Will Trump be able to build up what's there, make it more powerful and appealing to more people, encourage what wouldn't otherwise be there or make it a more unified force? I don't think so -- I think he's too transparently self-interested and a dilettante. He might be the new Glenn Beck for a brief period of time, but I don't really expect more. At best (though I don't entirely expect this either) he might make more explicit certain elements that the Republicans prefer to encourage in a below-the-scenes way and force the reasonable types, those who wish to appeal to non-crazies, to address and repudiate some of this.

uncle ebeneezer
04-27-2011, 07:11 PM
Oh please, please, please Flying Spagetti Monster, let Teh Donald run as a 3rd Party and split the GOP vote!!!

He may run into a few other problems (http://www.slate.com/id/2291263) as well:

"We must have universal healthcare," wrote Trump. "I'm a conservative on most issues but a liberal on this one. We should not hear so many stories of families ruined by healthcare expenses."

The goal of health care reform, wrote Trump, should be a system that looks a lot like Canada. "Doctors might be paid less than they are now, as is the case in Canada, but they would be able to treat more patients because of the reduction in their paperwork," he writes.

handle
04-27-2011, 07:14 PM
Oh please, please, please Flying Spagetti Monster, let Teh Donald run as a 3rd Party and split the GOP vote!!!

He may run into a few other problems (http://www.slate.com/id/2291263) as well:

I want to see his birth certificate, long form, of course.

Race: Meglohairspraymaniac

operative
04-27-2011, 07:15 PM
Right.



It's not only Trump personally that I worry about. More disturbingly, he reflects US-voter susceptibility to extremist voices on the right.

I don't think there's any equivalent on the left. There are left-wing crackpots, but they have a very small following, and certainly nothing remotely resembling Trump or Palin's capacity to mesmerize the media and set the national talking points agenda.

It all depends on what you consider to be right and left. I consider economic nationalism to be more a hallmark of the left. Populism is more a style than an ideology--there are left wing populists (Ed Schultz) and RW populists (Michael Savage). Bernie Sanders is one of the loudest economic nationalists in the Senate.

Wonderment
04-27-2011, 07:35 PM
let Teh Donald run as a 3rd Party and split the GOP vote!!!

How's this look? I'll have to ask Nate Silver to run the numbers:

Obama (D)
Romney (R)
Trump (I)
Paul (L)
Kucinich (P&G)

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 08:01 PM
Anyone agree with me that it was a mistake for Obama to cave in and pony up the Long Form to appease the delusional right?
I have not read anything posted in this thread since around 1:00 PM ET, and probably should before I respond, but no, I do not agree it was a mistake. I think the only "mistake" might be that he didn't wait a little longer. I think momentum was building rapidily on the right and the whole wingnut movement (the GOP) would have gone off a cliff given a few more weeks or months.

Also, "the delusional right" is about two thirds of self-identified Republicans. It's time we come to terms with the fact that this isn't a fringe; it's the core of the dominant political force in the United States.


The downside is that Obama looks weak by answering scurrilous and idiotic charges proffered by a pack of paranoics.
Not at all.

And again, your "pack of paranoics" is the GOP.

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 08:03 PM
Your perception of the GOP is simply utterly flawed. No major GOP figure embraced birtherism. Moreover, not only did major players like Tim Pawlenty cleary denounce it, but even more conservative members like Jan Brewer. So give me a break with this nonsense.
It was a core part of the Fox News message. And the leading contender for GOP nomination was propelled to his position at the front of the pack because of his indulgence in vicious hate speech and his embrace of birtherism.

I will grant that the corporate/Wall Street/nominally more rational part of the conservative coalition was substantially less interested in birtherism than the people you come from and represent: the base.

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 08:11 PM
Reading comments over at the Corner, it becomes evident that a lot of those folks are convinced he's a mole, false flagging his real loyalties to make the Republican's look ridiculous. It is true that his political donations have leaned heavily (2:1) toward Democrats, and he was a big contributor to Rahm Emmanuel's campaign. My guess is that it's all about him and that he really doesn't care what the downstream effects of his actions will be, except insofar as his name is being spoken. I think that makes him dangerous to everybody, on all sides.

Interesting. My guess -- and it is just a guess -- is that his contributions to Democrats have more to do with the fact that he's from and does business in New York, and the money is intended to do what money is used for in American politics: grease the skids and buy either protection or favorable treatment. I don't mean quid-pro-quo, but in the more indirect ways corporations and wealthy businesspeople expect to benefit from lavish contributions to political figures who cannot survive without the infusion of cash.

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 08:22 PM
Posted just two days ago; i.e., avant le déluge:

NEW VOICE COLUMN UP, about recent developments in birtherism.

Intro here (http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2011/04/new-voice-column-up-about-recent.html), full column here (http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/04/battle_of_birth.php).

Some predictions that are almost as far off base as this one (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showpost.php?p=205895&postcount=34).

Roy has a follow-up post on his blog: "Afterbirtherism (http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2011/04/afterbirtherism.html)." The comedy never stops with wingnuts, especially when they're back-pedaling.

[Added] B'head Jonah Goldberg is featured in one of the updates.

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 08:22 PM
So you want bonus extra comedy?

I was just reading the comments (http://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Scam-Ever-Pulled-USA/forum/Fx3O0GUS5OOQ7GV/Tx2GI2LK8SYGMB7/1/ref=cm_cd_dp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=1936488299&store=books) on Jerome Corsi's new book on Amazon. Here's what one wingnut posted about Obama:

Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his kindergarten records.

That may be the single nuttiest thing I've ever read.

Ocean
04-27-2011, 08:25 PM
Here's what one wingnut posted about Obama:

Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his kindergarten records.

That may be the single nuttiest thing I've ever read.

Wouldn't you say that's someone's sarcastic humor?

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 08:27 PM
Wouldn't you say that's someone's sarcastic humor?

Oh, definitely not.

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 08:29 PM
So you want bonus extra comedy?

I was just reading the comments (http://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Scam-Ever-Pulled-USA/forum/Fx3O0GUS5OOQ7GV/Tx2GI2LK8SYGMB7/1/ref=cm_cd_dp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=1936488299&store=books) on Jerome Corsi's new book on Amazon. Here's what one wingnut posted about Obama:

Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his kindergarten records.

That may be the single nuttiest thing I've ever read.

I was going to say that had to be a joke (or a moby), but man, the whole thing is beyond the capabilities of anyone except a True Believer. Check this, from farther down:

He changed his name during his youth from the far less MUSLIM sounding name of Barry Soetoro to the far more sounding Barack Hussein Obama. He also speaks Arabic, possibly fluently. Anyone care to name any other REAL American "president" who took the time to pride himself with that diddy?

Cargo is right (http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2011/04/afterbirtherism.html):

"The conspiracies will continue as long as the President remains black."

Wonderment
04-27-2011, 08:36 PM
...but no, I do not agree it was a mistake.

It's probably just me. I liked Obama a lot more when he was born in Kenya and Indonesia :) Now that he acts like he was born on a mountaintop (http://edsitement.neh.gov/lesson-plan/davy-crockett-tall-tales-and-history) in Tennessee,.... not so much.

Speaking for my fellow birthers (where's Denville?), maybe now we can focus on the wars Obama is waging: 9 US soldiers were murdered in Afghanistan today. For what? (Speaking of delusions)

Cheers! (http://articles.boston.com/2011-04-26/ae/29475716_1_three-cups-dooley-navy-medic)

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 08:48 PM
Wouldn't you say that's someone's sarcastic humor?

Here's the whole post. The same list and basic content have been posted all over the internets, forwarded in innumerable emails, and included in countless YouTube videos:

Want to get an idea of just who Barry Soetoro, aka: Barack Hussein Obama REALLY is?

GOOGLE: "The Sworn Affidavit Of Bishop Ron McRae" and read it. Especially note the part that mentions how MUSLIMS (which "O" is, make no mistake) do NOT have to give up their beliefs or faith to be members of Jeremiah Wright's "Christian church" in Chicago, which "O" belonged to for 20 years.

Barack Hussein Obama is NOT an American citizen.
Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim.
Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his kindergarten records.
Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his Punahou school records.
Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his Occidental College records.
Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his Columbia University records.
Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his Columbia thesis.
Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his his Harvard Law School records.
Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his Harvard Law Review articles.
Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his scholarly articles from the University of Chicago.
Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his passport.
Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his medical records.
Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his files from his years as an Illinois state senator.
Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his Illinois State Bar Association records.
Barack Hussein Obama has NEVER released his baptism records, and his adoption records.

He changed his name during his youth from the far less MUSLIM sounding name of Barry Soetoro to the far more sounding Barack Hussein Obama. He also speaks Arabic, possibly fluently. Anyone care to name any other REAL American "president" who took the time to pride himself with that diddy?

Is there ANY "ordinary" (or otherwise) AMERICAN CITIZEN who has NEVER had to produce their birth certificate for far LESS legal reasons than being PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES? Think about it.

Just imagine if Obama were a Republican what the media would have put him through. Just the FACT that Mitt Romney IS a Mormon was something the Big Commie Media convinced a lot of voters was something terrible during the 2008 campaign...but with the illegal Kenyan Muslim Marxist racist, Obama, they totally ignore EVERYTHING about his past. UNbelievable!

BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA is a USURPER and everything he has done is null and void in my (and millions of other Americans') opinion.

"ALL I NEED TO KNOW ABOUT ISLAM I LEARNED ON 9/11"

uncle ebeneezer
04-27-2011, 08:50 PM
He also speaks Arabic, possibly fluently.

Can you hear the sound of Floperative's heart-breaking??? Our President IS "intellectually curious" after all!!!

Ocean
04-27-2011, 08:52 PM
Here's the whole post. The same list and basic content have been posted all over the internets, forwarded in innumerable emails, and included in countless YouTube videos:

Okay, in that context it's a nutcase alright.

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 08:53 PM
Can you hear the sound of Floperative's heart-breaking??? Our President IS "intellectually curious" after all!!!

LOL!

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 08:56 PM
Okay, in that context it's a nutcase alright.

I agree it sounds like a joke when you read just that one line.

TwinSwords
04-27-2011, 08:59 PM
"The conspiracies will continue as long as the President remains black."

Yeah.

It's nice to have a few moments of fun after all the damage the GOP has done to the country over the years, but the sober fact remains that the conservative movement is fundamentally about two things: hatred, and rage. And those characteristics will endure as long as Obama is black, and well beyond.

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 09:01 PM
Which is why he decided to release it the day Bernanke was testifying.

It's totally a coincidence that he releases an irrelevant bit of information regarding an irrelevant but media saturated "story" in the day when Bernanke is testifying, in the wake of some discouraging jobs numbers and skyrocketing oil costs.

Hmmmm! Others are talking this up (http://www.salon.com/technology/how_the_world_works/2011/04/27/bernanke_press_conference/index.html), too!

The dumbest birther conspiracy theory of them all
Sarah Palin suggests Obama released his birth certificate to overshadow Ben Bernanke's press conference. But why?

Of all the conspiracy theories swarming around the ridiculous question of where President Obama was born, my choice for most incomprehensible arrived this morning: The president, according to an avalanche of tweets, released a copy of his longform birth certificate specifically in order to distract attention from Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke's first-ever press conference.

In inimitable fashion, Sarah Palin led the way (http://twitter.com/#!/SarahPalinUSA/status/63238478137270273), managing in the space of 140 characters to suggest both that Obama had been forced into the release and that it was some kind of insidious dodge.

Media: admit it, Trump forced the issue. Now, don't let the WH distract you w/the birth crt from what Bernanke says today. Stay focused, eh?

But for the birth-certificate-as-distraction-theory to make any sense, doesn't there have to be some kind of reason why Obama might not want people paying attention to Bernanke? And that's where this loopiness completely breaks down. The Fed's position is that the economy is continuing a "moderate recovery" -- maybe growing a little slower right now than it expected a few months ago, but still significantly more healthy than six months or a year ago. The Fed believes that inflation is generally under control, and plans to end its stimulative program of securities purchases on schedule in June. According to Bernanke, the Fed expects unemployment to continue to fall and economic growth to accelerate in 2012.

There were no surprises at the press conference. Indeed, it would have been a complete shocker had there been any surprise, since the whole point of Bernanke's efforts to increase transparency on Fed decision-making is to minimize the chance of market disruptions by making sure that everyone knows exactly what the Fed is planning to do and why. And while I'm sure Obama would like a faster rate of GDP growth and a sharper drop in the unemployment rate, it is hard to imagine that the White House has any problems with the steady-as-she-goes message from Bernanke, particularly insofar as it suggests that economic conditions during the heat of the presidential campaign will be the best of Obama's entire term.

The rest (http://www.salon.com/technology/how_the_world_works/2011/04/27/bernanke_press_conference/index.html).

chiwhisoxx
04-27-2011, 09:04 PM
I agree it sounds like a joke when you read just that one line.

a pretty good one, at that

bjkeefe
04-27-2011, 09:15 PM
Gene Lyons:

Prediction: Releasing Obama's long-form birth certificate will change few minds. You can't argue with crazy.

A worthwhile read (http://www.salon.com/news/politics/republican_party/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2011/04/27/conservative_conspiracy_theories).

AemJeff
04-27-2011, 09:47 PM
Interesting. My guess -- and it is just a guess -- is that his contributions to Democrats have more to do with the fact that he's from and does business in New York, and the money is intended to do what money is used for in American politics: grease the skids and buy either protection or favorable treatment. I don't mean quid-pro-quo, but in the more indirect ways corporations and wealthy businesspeople expect to benefit from lavish contributions to political figures who cannot survive without the infusion of cash.

That's definitely possible. In fact, he claims the contributions to Rahm were all about doing business in Chicago. On the other hand he does a lot of business in New Jersey, and the state government has oscillated between the parties quite a bit.

bjkeefe
04-28-2011, 08:54 AM
It really is amazing how furiously the operative has been posting in this thread, isn't it?

Ah, now it becomes clear:

I think it'd be more accurate to say that it's mostly fringe figures. Lefties can find maybe one or two actually remotely-notable members of the GOP who have at one point or another said something birther-curious ...

It's all about rewriting history!

However, I suppose if you define the bulk of the Republican Party as "fringe figures" and large numbers of their elected officials as "remotely-notable," the operative could be said not to be lying.

Oh, and we'll have to redefine "one or two," also, I guess.

We are reminded by a NYT editorial (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/opinion/28thu1.html) about some of those "remotely-notable members of the GOP who have at one point or another said something birther-curious:"

Sarah Palin said the birth certificate issue was “fair game,” and the public was “rightfully” making it an issue. The House speaker, John Boehner, grudgingly said in February (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/opinion/20sun3.html) that he would take Mr. Obama “at his word” that he was a citizen, a suggestion that the proof was insufficient. He said, however, that it was not his job to end the nonsensical attacks. “The American people have the right to think what they want to think,” he said at the time. That signal was clearly received. Lawmakers in nearly a dozen states introduced bills requiring presidential candidates to release their full birth certificates.

And just to name a few others, let's not forget that at various times, Michele Bachmann (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showpost.php?p=202707&postcount=15), Mike Huckabee (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2011/03/huckabee-jumps-into-birther-ring.html), Newt Gingrich (http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2010_09_05_archive.html#5448779419279144529), Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK) (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2009/07/sure-states-initials-are-ok-but-it.html), Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL) (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2009/02/wingnuts-in-high-places.html), and a whole slew of Republican House members (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/27/stark-birthers-vid/), most notably Rep. Bill Posey (R-FL) (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2009/03/barker-posey.html), were clearly birther-curious, birther-enablers, post-birthers, or whatever label (http://prospect.org/csnc/blogs/adam_serwer_archive?month=03&year=2011&base_name=a_birtherism_lexicon) you'd like to use.

The really important point, however, appears in the next line of the editorial:

It is inconceivable that this campaign to portray Mr. Obama as the insidious “other” would have been conducted against a white president.

operative
04-28-2011, 09:29 AM
We are reminded by a NYT editorial (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/opinion/28thu1.html) about some of those "remotely-notable members of the GOP who have at one point or another said something birther-curious:"



And just to name a few others, let's not forget that at various times, Michele Bachmann (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showpost.php?p=202707&postcount=15), Mike Huckabee (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2011/03/huckabee-jumps-into-birther-ring.html), Newt Gingrich (http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2010_09_05_archive.html#5448779419279144529), Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK) (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2009/07/sure-states-initials-are-ok-but-it.html), Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL) (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2009/02/wingnuts-in-high-places.html), and a whole slew of Republican House members (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/27/stark-birthers-vid/), most notably Rep. Bill Posey (R-FL) (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2009/03/barker-posey.html), were clearly birther-curious, birther-enablers, post-birthers, or whatever label (http://prospect.org/csnc/blogs/adam_serwer_archive?month=03&year=2011&base_name=a_birtherism_lexicon) you'd like to use.

The really important point, however, appears in the next line of the editorial:

Nothing like some good ol' fashion spin. So now Boehner not embracing birtherism is embracing birtherism. Huckabee getting Obama's childhood info wrong is embracing birtherism.

BJ, you have shown yourself to be a dishonest liar uninterested in serious discussion. So try linking to something other than your fascist blog if you want to make a point.

bjkeefe
04-28-2011, 10:21 AM
Nothing like some good ol' fashion spin. So now Boehner not embracing birtherism is embracing birtherism. Huckabee getting Obama's childhood info wrong is embracing birtherism.

BJ, you have shown yourself to be a dishonest liar uninterested in serious discussion. So try linking to something other than your fascist blog if you want to make a point.

Spin, dishonesty, and lies, eh, oppie? Another instance of you accusing others of what you most recognize in yourself, is it not?

Also, I have to wonder at the sheer stupidity of your attempt. Anyone can see that you've concocted a straw man of Boeher "embracing" birtherism. It's clear from the passage I quoted (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=206000#post206000) that no one (except you) is saying that.

The House speaker, John Boehner, grudgingly said in February (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/20/opinion/20sun3.html) that he would take Mr. Obama “at his word” that he was a citizen, a suggestion that the proof was insufficient. He said, however, that it was not his job to end the nonsensical attacks.

As I also said in my previous post, he, and numerous other prominent Republicans, are guilty of an ongoing pattern of behavior of winking and nodding, and of the sin of omission of not knocking down this wingnuttery whenever they were given the opportunity to do so; i.e., birther-enabling. This pattern of indulging and fanning their base's racism was cynical pandering and irresponsible leadership at the very least, so these prominent Republicans deserve full blame for keeping Birtherism alive.

To your assertion that I'm only linking to my blog, I'll point out that my posts all contain links to other sources, and further, in my previous post in this thread, I also linked to four other places.

As to your mindless bandying about of the term "fascist" ... well, from your lips to Jonah Goldberg's ears, I guess. Enjoy your circle jerk.

bjkeefe
04-28-2011, 11:48 AM
The king of the conspiracy theorists (Glenn Beck is merely the Clown Prince) is now pushing the idea that (a) the just-released long form birth certificate is an obvious fake AND (b) it was designed by Obama to be an obvious fake precisely because Obama wants birtherism to remain front and center in the public consciousness!

These devious Kenyans, huh? Good thing we have RealAmericans like Alex Jones to tell us The Truth.

Link here (http://wonkette.com/444402/nations-birthers-allowed-on-teevee-to-point-at-birth-certificate-give-opinion), if you want to click it. And if you want to see Crazy Pammy posing as an document expert, because what else does Fox Business News have to talk about?

bjkeefe
04-28-2011, 01:54 PM
Roy has a follow-up post on his blog: "Afterbirtherism (http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2011/04/afterbirtherism.html)." The comedy never stops with wingnuts, especially when they're back-pedaling.

[Added] B'head Jonah Goldberg is featured in one of the updates.

But wait! There's more! "The End of a Birthic Day. (http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2011/04/end-of-birthic-day.html)" Featuring an encore performance by Sir Pant of Load!

uncle ebeneezer
04-28-2011, 02:42 PM
I love it. It's Obama's fault for letting all these dolts obsess on their own paranoid fantasies. Like Neil Armstrong is really the one to blame for all the moon-hoaxers.

AemJeff
04-28-2011, 02:48 PM
I love it. It's Obama's fault for letting all these dolts obsess on their own paranoid fantasies. Like Neil Armstrong is really the one to blame for all the moon-hoaxers.

Quite a lot of politics is the fine art of making sure your opponents are damned if they and damned if they don't. The open question right now is whether the current crop of claims regarding Obama's timing and whatnot can be made to stick. My guess is that it's pretty weak tea by now.

uncle ebeneezer
04-28-2011, 02:57 PM
I can't find the post, but Wonderment asked about the value of Obama agreeing to release the lfbc. Just wanted to respond that although the crazies will certainly reject ANY evidence, a case can be made that sometimes the majority of the public will shift it's opinion based on proper evidence. For example, the Popular Mechanics article debunking 911 Truther Conspiracies (http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-06-04/#feature) seems to have done a pretty good job of shifting public opinion.

operative
04-28-2011, 05:44 PM
I can't find the post, but Wonderment asked about the value of Obama agreeing to release the lfbc. Just wanted to respond that although the crazies will certainly reject ANY evidence, a case can be made that sometimes the majority of the public will shift it's opinion based on proper evidence. For example, the Popular Mechanics article debunking 911 Truther Conspiracies (http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-06-04/#feature) seems to have done a pretty good job of shifting public opinion.

So far as I can gather, the majority of the public was already quite secure in their acceptance of Obama's Hawaiian birth. The occasional poll suggesting something to the contrary in the GOP is more the case of a segment of the population that will just say "yes" to whatever the charge is against Obama. Of course, I think the same thing is true about 9/11--the actual percentage of truthers has always been pretty small.

uncle ebeneezer
04-28-2011, 06:08 PM
Different strokes (http://www.balloon-juice.com/2011/04/28/while-were-strolling-down-memory-lane/) indeed...

bjkeefe
04-28-2011, 06:17 PM
Different strokes (http://www.balloon-juice.com/2011/04/28/while-were-strolling-down-memory-lane/) indeed...

From the same site: "Heartbroken at the Suffocating Racism and Outraged at the Apologists (http://www.balloon-juice.com/2011/04/28/heartbroken-at-the-suffocating-racism-and-outraged-at-the-apologists/)."

I guess the leading candidate for the Republican 2012 nomination still has work to do on his Great Relationship With The Blacks (http://wonkette.com/443173/trump-ive-always-had-a-great-relationship-with-the-blacks).

uncle ebeneezer
05-02-2011, 03:41 PM
Hopefully Donald read this! (http://www.balloon-juice.com/2011/05/02/trumps-very-bad-week/)

Because everything is political to me, it is kind of awesome to think about how disastrous the last week has been for Trump. While he was spending the week launching racist attacks at President Obama, the WH is busy tracking down the man who attacked Trump’s city and finally bringing him to justice. Then, yet another birth certificate copy is released, and Trump is forced to claim victory while everyone outside the teatard base is laughing at him. He then gets demolished Saturday evening by Obama and Seth Meyers. On Sunday, his television show, Celebrity Apprentice, is knocked off the air for breaking news, and while Trump is last seen debating whether to fire lil John, Obama strides out to inform us that Osama is dead. The dagger through the heart, though, is that this Osama news is so momentous that no one, not even the Fox news hacks or the villagers at Morning Joe, want to have Trump on to whine about how mistreated he was on Saturday.

I’m loving it.

TwinSwords
05-06-2011, 01:35 AM
Too funny...

The defense fund for birther and former Lt. Col. Terrence Lakin put out a statement on Wednesday in response to the release of President Obama’s long-form birth certificate, asking that Lakin, a doctor, be given a “full and complete presidential pardon” for his court martial conviction of six months, “including restoration of pay, benefits, and service.”

The reasoning? If only Lakin had seen this birth certificate a year ago he would have never refused his orders to deploy to Afghanistan!

“This document which was so casually dropped on the news corps could just have easily been provided twelve months ago or two years ago,” the statement said. “Even six months ago, it would have prevented LTC Lakin being manacled and hauled away to Fort Leavenworth prison for standing up for the Constitution, consistent with the oath he took as an officer, and the rule of law.”

Shorter wingnut birther:

Waaaaahhhh!


(Source (http://www.dailynews-update.net/4351/court-martialed-birther-army-doc-supporters-if-only-obama-had-released-the-birth-certificate-a-year-ago/))

bjkeefe
05-06-2011, 07:49 AM
Too funny...

[...]

(Source (http://www.dailynews-update.net/4351/court-martialed-birther-army-doc-supporters-if-only-obama-had-released-the-birth-certificate-a-year-ago/))

From the statement itself (http://www.terrylakinactionfund.com/obamaresponse), the comedy continues.

Then today, Mr. Obama produces yet another online document, a long form birth certificate. After more than two years of concealment and obfuscation, this document must be submitted for forensics testing to determine its authenticity. Similarly, the Kenyan birth certificate that has been widely circulating on the internet and on Capitol Hill-- should be tested.

File under How Not To Boost Your Credibility.

Ocean
05-06-2011, 07:55 AM
From the statement itself (http://www.terrylakinactionfund.com/obamaresponse), the comedy continues.



File under How Not To Boost Your Credibility.

How long does it take for a dog to figure that there isn't any meat on a plastic bone?

Sheesh.

TwinSwords
05-06-2011, 09:24 AM
File under How Not To Boost Your Credibility.

LOL!

The attitude of entitlement is just amazing: "I demand you reinstate me while I check the authenticity of your Kenyan birth certificate!"

And it's just sad if that Kenyan BC has really been circulating on Capitol Hill, but considering the Republican Party, I would not be the least bit surprised if it has been.

miceelf
05-06-2011, 06:06 PM
http://youtu.be/6yvHx-Ha9P4

bjkeefe
05-06-2011, 06:35 PM
http://youtu.be/6yvHx-Ha9P4

Seems hard to believe. They all seem ... too coherent.

. (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif)

handle
05-06-2011, 07:36 PM
Seems hard to believe. They all seem ... too coherent.

. (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif)

I don't know, I think they rase some som valad poynts, I mean where isn't the LFDC? And why can't they not show it to us? Just seams odd.

TwinSwords
05-16-2011, 05:37 PM
Kerners are go!

Literally!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58vFN2FFu2U

bjkeefe
05-16-2011, 06:03 PM
Literally!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58vFN2FFu2U

LOL!

You also have to love the paranoia of this comment (http://www.youtube.com/comment?lc=2Hejze_PwprrFe3_2QU-lskFduphfcewPOWchLEwdnU):

Ouch, but of course they WANT ppl to get in an uproar about this. You guys are playing right into their hands...

bjkeefe
05-18-2011, 04:14 PM
... so disrespectful (https://donate.barackobama.com/page/contribute/o2012-made-in-the-usa-shirt-zmor) of what ®ealAmericans believe???1?

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/452/obamamadeinusatshirt.jpg

See also (http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/jerome-corsi-birther-book-5765410), see also (http://wonkette.com/446086/wnd-esquire-taking-orders-from-white-house-to-destroy-birth-certificate-book).

[Added] Sorry, Uncle Eb (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=6746). Should have looked around before posting.