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Ocean
12-02-2010, 07:57 AM
There White House has a policy to withhold sending a condolence letter to military personnel who commit suicide.

The current White House has been reviewing this policy but hasn't made a final decision yet about reverting it.

I signed a petition to revert it. It's discriminatory against people with mental illness.

Here's the site (http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewPage&page_ID=C3DDE783-B3CF-B005-D1D4534FB22550F8) where you can sign the petition.

bjkeefe
12-02-2010, 08:36 AM
What an idiotic policy. Anyway, petition signed. Hope it works.

Ocean
12-02-2010, 04:58 PM
What an idiotic policy. Anyway, petition signed. Hope it works.

Thanks!

uncle ebeneezer
12-02-2010, 05:08 PM
Signed it.

The overblown, negative, emotional response by many humans towards suicide victims, is something that I have never understood. Suicide is a tragedy for the victim and the loved ones that mourn for them. Thanks for passing along the link.

Ocean
12-02-2010, 05:29 PM
Signed it.

The overblown, negative, emotional response by many humans towards suicide victims, is something that I have never understood. Suicide is a tragedy for the victim and the loved ones that mourn for them. Thanks for passing along the link.

Yes. It's a tragedy for everybody involved. The lack of support/ condolence for their families has no justification.

operative
12-02-2010, 05:45 PM
There White House has a policy to withhold sending a condolence letter to military personnel who commit suicide.

The current White House has been reviewing this policy but hasn't made a final decision yet about reverting it.

I signed a petition to revert it. It's discriminatory against people with mental illness.

Here's the site (http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewPage&page_ID=C3DDE783-B3CF-B005-D1D4534FB22550F8) where you can sign the petition.

Petitions are a waste of time even in cases where the policy is as stupid as that one.

operative
12-02-2010, 05:47 PM
Signed it.

The overblown, negative, emotional response by many humans towards suicide victims, is something that I have never understood. Suicide is a tragedy for the victim and the loved ones that mourn for them. Thanks for passing along the link.

Henri Blocher has done some outstanding work on the history of philosophy toward suicide.

Ocean
12-02-2010, 06:19 PM
Petitions are a waste of time even in cases where the policy is as stupid as that one.

Petitions are very likely more effective than your opinion to the contrary.

chiwhisoxx
12-02-2010, 06:29 PM
Signed it, this policy is submoronic.

Ocean
12-02-2010, 06:30 PM
Signed it, this policy is submoronic.

Thanks!

operative
12-02-2010, 06:45 PM
Petitions are very likely more effective than your opinion to the contrary.

Can you point to a single online petition that had any real results?

Ocean
12-02-2010, 06:51 PM
Can you point to a single online petition that had any real results?

If you want to demonstrate that they don't work, please feel free to produce the evidence. As far as I'm concerned, you can sign it if you want, or not sign it. You don't even have to tell us what you did. I'm not here to prove to you that a petition that you don't seem to care about has chances to influence decision making to one degree or the other.

operative
12-02-2010, 06:56 PM
If you want to demonstrate that they don't work, please feel free to produce the evidence.

I asked for one example of where they worked. If you don't have one, I'd say that's plenty enough evidence.


As far as I'm concerned, you can sign it if you want, or not sign it. You don't even have to tell us what you did. I'm not here to prove to you that a petition that you don't seem to care about has chances to influence decision making to one degree or the other.

It's a nice gesture but I think people shouldn't kid themselves into thinking it's remotely relevant--it's like voting in an online poll.

Ocean
12-02-2010, 07:14 PM
I asked for one example of where they worked. If you don't have one, I'd say that's plenty enough evidence.


Do you want to know whether online petitions work? Go do your research. I'm not going to do it for you.

If all you want to do is find an excuse not to sign the petition, find another way of manipulating. Just saying.

chiwhisoxx
12-02-2010, 07:19 PM
Petitions are a waste of time even in cases where the policy is as stupid as that one.

It takes 20 seconds to sign the damn thing. If you agree with the petition, then just sign it. If you don't agree with it, don't sign it. Either way, stop whining about it because it's pretty damn inconsequential.

operative
12-02-2010, 07:50 PM
Do you want to know whether online petitions work? Go do your research. I'm not going to do it for you.

I would think that if you're asking people to do something, you should have something to suggest that it will be in any way remotely significant.

Ocean
12-02-2010, 08:15 PM
I would think that if you're asking people to do something, you should have something to suggest that it will be in any way remotely significant.

Give up, op. I'm not falling for it.

What you're asking is equivalent to asking whether voting in an election gets you whatever it is you think you're voting for. We are talking about a play of opposing forces. You never know how much is going in the opposite direction. You can only know (hopefully) in what direction you're pushing.

If we were talking about getting a second mortgage to support the cause, I would understand your interest in researching outcomes, but as Chi said, it costs you 20 seconds of your time. I've spent already a few dozen petitions worth of time responding to you. Come on. We're not going to start WWIII here. It's just about a letter of condolence.

If you think you have something else that's interesting to contribute to this thread, please do. Otherwise... have a nice evening already.

operative
12-02-2010, 08:28 PM
Give up, op. I'm not falling for it.

What you're asking is equivalent to asking whether voting in an election gets you whatever it is you think you're voting for. We are talking about a play of opposing forces. You never know how much is going in the opposite direction. You can only know (hopefully) in what direction you're pushing.

Well you can say with close to 100% certainty that your vote won't matter, but that's a whole different matter...

Ocean
12-02-2010, 08:33 PM
Well you can say with close to 100% certainty that your vote won't matter, but that's a whole different matter...

Brother! What did you eat today?

operative
12-02-2010, 09:32 PM
Brother! What did you eat today?

A Happy Meal.

(not really--then I'd be genuinely pessimistic)

Ocean
12-02-2010, 09:35 PM
A Happy Meal.

(not really--then I'd be genuinely pessimistic)

All that cholesterol has clogged your brain. ;)

Wonderment
12-03-2010, 12:06 AM
Petitions are a waste of time even in cases where the policy is as stupid as that one.

Petitions are often quite useful to raise consciousness about an issue like this one. No one thinks signing a petition is sufficient to change a policy; it's just one tool among many. You jumped to an unwarranted conclusion and argued a case against nobody.

SkepticDoc
12-03-2010, 01:28 PM
I signed it.

Ocean
12-03-2010, 02:35 PM
I signed it.

Thanks!

popcorn_karate
12-03-2010, 05:17 PM
There White House has a policy to withhold sending a condolence letter to military personnel who commit suicide.

The current White House has been reviewing this policy but hasn't made a final decision yet about reverting it.

I signed a petition to revert it. It's discriminatory against people with mental illness.

Here's the site (http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewPage&page_ID=C3DDE783-B3CF-B005-D1D4534FB22550F8) where you can sign the petition.

does the white house send condolence letters to any other federal employees or only service members? anybody know?