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Fluffy Foo Foo
11-11-2010, 12:16 PM
To all those who have served... I thank you.

Lmaki
11-11-2010, 12:30 PM
Thank you Vets!!!

look
11-11-2010, 01:06 PM
O beautiful for heroes proved
In liberating strife,
Who more than self their country loved,
And mercy more than life

bjkeefe
11-11-2010, 02:04 PM
Words from Mr. Riley, posted 11/11/2008 (http://doghouseriley.blogspot.com/2008/11/return-armistice.html) and 11/11/2009 (http://doghouseriley.blogspot.com/2009/11/old-lie.html). Poetry (from another author) at the latter.

Bonus, from 5/27/2008 (http://doghouseriley.blogspot.com/2008/05/misty-primary-colored-memories.html).

bjkeefe
11-11-2010, 03:22 PM
Google agrees!

So, naturally, wingnuts (http://wonkette.com/429952/the-google-desecrates-beloved-american-flag-with-muslin-crescent-moon) are furious (http://gawker.com/5687649/does-this-google-veterans-days-logo-look-muslim-to-you).

bjkeefe
11-11-2010, 06:01 PM
Veterans Today agrees!

To all those who have served... I thank you.

But probably they would like you to thank a little harder, and more often than once a year (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/11/11/this-veterans-day-18-will-die-by-their-own-hands/).

(via (http://wonkette.com/429883/ingenius-fiscal-commission-smithsonian-pandas-to-blame-for-national-deficit))

graz
11-11-2010, 06:16 PM
Words from Mr. Riley, posted 11/11/2008 (http://doghouseriley.blogspot.com/2008/11/return-armistice.html) and 11/11/2009 (http://doghouseriley.blogspot.com/2009/11/old-lie.html). Poetry (from another author) at the latter.

Bonus, from 5/27/2008 (http://doghouseriley.blogspot.com/2008/05/misty-primary-colored-memories.html).

Veterans Today agrees!



But probably they would like you to thank a little harder, and more often than once a year (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/11/11/this-veterans-day-18-will-die-by-their-own-hands/).

(via (http://wonkette.com/429883/ingenius-fiscal-commission-smithsonian-pandas-to-blame-for-national-deficit))
Thanks for the perspective.

Fluffy Foo Foo
11-11-2010, 07:45 PM
Oh yeah... we're going to do away with our armed forces and overseas conflicts just because of some suicides. It's tragic... but lots of people commit suicide for all kinds of reasons (largely unknown probably, because the reasons went to the grave with the individual).

Lots of people use this argument for anti-military purposes as well. And on this day buddy, you better not being do that.

bjkeefe
11-11-2010, 07:50 PM
Oh yeah... we're going to do away with our armed forces and overseas conflicts just because of some suicides It's tragic... but lots of people commit suicide for all kinds of reasons (largely unknown probably, because the reasons went to the grave with the individual).

Lots of people use this argument for anti-military purposes as well. And on this day buddy, you better not being do that.

Why am I completely unsurprised you completely missed my point?

bjkeefe
11-11-2010, 07:52 PM
Thanks for the perspective.

y/w. Thanks for letting me know.

Fluffy Foo Foo
11-11-2010, 07:56 PM
You couldn't have had a point, cause you have no idea how often I thank servicemen and women throughout the year.

... and at least, unlike you, I actually support what they've accomplished and will accomplish overseas. :)

bjkeefe
11-11-2010, 07:58 PM
You couldn't have had a point, cause you have no idea how often I thank servicemen and women throughout the year.

... and at least, unlike you, I actually support what they've accomplished and will accomplish overseas. :)

Same passage applies (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=185497#post185497) to Teh Troops as it does to Teh Country.

Get someone to explain it to you.

Wonderment
11-11-2010, 08:33 PM
Ditto, Lyle. Here's a Veterans Day (http://rethinkafghanistan.com/)link you might like on how you can help vets today.

Also, check out this one. (http://www.veteransforpeace.org/) I have worked with hundreds of these brave men and women over the years. They are tireless peace activists, often because they've seen the horrors of war that you and I have been spared.

Fluffy Foo Foo
11-11-2010, 09:28 PM
Ditto, Lyle. Here's a Veterans Day (http://rethinkafghanistan.com/)link you might like on how you can help vets today.

Also, check out this one. (http://www.veteransforpeace.org/) I have worked with hundreds of these brave men and women over the years. They are tireless peace activists, often because they've seen the horrors of war that you and I have been spared.

I'm sure you do... but I hope you don't think any less of those who aren't peace activists and are actually proud of what they did.

Anti-war vets views are no less valuable than pro-war vets views.

Don Zeko
11-11-2010, 09:30 PM
I'd be very surprised if anyone here hasn't already read this one, but if there's any day to remember this poem, it's today:

Dulce et Decorum Est
by Wilfred Owen

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

Gas! Gas! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime...
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

EDIT: Apparently this poem has been linked to up-thread. Oops. Anyway, I'm going to keep it in because I like it and also because there's no harm being redundant with good, timely poetry.

bjkeefe
11-15-2010, 08:23 PM
On 11 November, Australia also observes. Here is John Quiggin's "Belated Remembrance Day post (http://crookedtimber.org/2010/11/12/belated-remembrance-day-post/)."

==========

Minor note: He refers in the beginning of the post to a piece he had published elsewhere, which he reproduces further down. Since I have linked to a permalinked version, it may be a little unclear where the original piece starts. So, if it's not clear from context, here's the "more" (internally anchored) link (http://crookedtimber.org/2010/11/12/belated-remembrance-day-post/#more-17734) to the spot in the blog post where the earlier published piece begins. Just in case you wanted to know.

Also, I could speculate about why people who live in the Southern Hemisphere say "over the fold" instead of "below the fold," but then Ocean would probably slap me, so I won't.

operative
11-16-2010, 06:01 PM
On the subject of veterans, some links on Sal Giunta, the most recent Medal of Honor winner:
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/11/16/video-staff-sgt-sal-giunta-receives-the-medal-of-honor/

bjkeefe
11-16-2010, 09:00 PM
On the subject of veterans, some links on Sal Giunta, the most recent Medal of Honor winner:
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/11/16/video-staff-sgt-sal-giunta-receives-the-medal-of-honor/

Kind of amazing that it took until the fourth comment before the Obama-bashing started.

chiwhisoxx
11-16-2010, 09:10 PM
Kind of amazing that it took until the fourth comment before the Obama-bashing started.

Well since this thread about Veterans Day only made it 3 posts before someone posted a link whining about U.S. militarism, instead of just saying "thanks" to the veterans...

bjkeefe
11-16-2010, 10:30 PM
Well since this thread about Veterans Day only made it 3 posts before someone posted a link whining about U.S. militarism, instead of just saying "thanks" to the veterans...

I'm going to have to start including my predictions for your responses before posting my comments instead of just thinking them. No. Fuck that. That would be even more boring than your perpetually unsurprising parrot squawks.

If you can't see the difference between (1) pushing back on the hive mind of Lial and look and 'fur fawning over some cheesy, gauzy image of Teh Troops™ by pointing out what war actually entails for those whom you never think about otherwise, and (2) laughing at HotAir sad clowns who can't let go of their Obama Derangement Syndrome for one post, even as it means effectively dissing an actual soldier, then ... well, that's why we have the term wingnut, I guess.

chiwhisoxx
11-16-2010, 10:57 PM
I'm going to have to start including my predictions for your responses before posting my comments instead of just thinking them. No. Fuck that. That would be even more boring than your perpetually unsurprising parrot squawks.

If you can't see the difference between (1) pushing back on the hive mind of Lial and look and 'fur fawning over some cheesy, gauzy image of Teh Troops™ by pointing out what war actually entails for those whom you never think about otherwise, and (2) laughing at HotAir sad clowns who can't let go of their Obama Derangement Syndrome for one post, even as it means effectively dissing an actual soldier, then ... well, that's why we have the term wingnut, I guess.

You're banging your spoon on your highchair about politicizing Veterans Day and making it melodramatic and "gauzy" , all while doing the exact same thing in the opposite direction. Honestly, if there's a "gauzy" image of the troops on Veterans Day, is that really such a horrible thing? Maybe just shut up for a day and tip your cap instead of peddling your agenda. We can all probably survive you not sharing your wit and wisdom on one topic. By the way, keep going with "teh" cause it doesn't get funny until the 4,731 time, and you're getting close to 4k. Keep chugging!

bjkeefe
11-16-2010, 11:02 PM
You're banging your spoon on your highchair ...

Emailing with 'fur, are you?

chiwhisoxx
11-16-2010, 11:04 PM
Emailing with 'fur, are you?

Yes, you know me and 'fur. I could describe our relationship, but Depeche Mode said it best, so I won't bother.

bjkeefe
11-17-2010, 05:14 PM
Kind of amazing that it took until the fourth comment before the Obama-bashing started.

And then there's this (http://wonkette.com/430470/afas-bryan-fischer-medal-of-honor-only-awarded-for-being-gay-in-line-of-duty):

Yesterday, President Obama awarded the Medal of Honor to Army Staff Sgt. Sal Giunta for putting himself in the line of fire to save two comrades during an ambush in Afghanistan in October 2007. But however much courage it took to do that, the American Family Association’s Bryan Fischer just cannot get over how gay that was. (http://www.afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147500421) “I have noticed a disturbing trend in the awarding of these medals, which few others seem to have recognized. We have feminized the Medal of Honor.”

Ocean
11-17-2010, 05:50 PM
And then there's this (http://wonkette.com/430470/afas-bryan-fischer-medal-of-honor-only-awarded-for-being-gay-in-line-of-duty):

Unbelievable. I mean, you read and it's got to be a joke. Please tell me that indeed, it is a joke.

bjkeefe
11-17-2010, 06:33 PM
Unbelievable. I mean, you read and it's got to be a joke. Please tell me that indeed, it is a joke.

I have never seen any evidence (e.g. (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2010/05/wingnut-hate-machine-firing-on-all.html), e.g. (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2010/08/more-wingnut-hate-noted-for-record.html)) that the American Family Association or its (http://action.afa.net/detail.aspx?id=2147486648) "director of Issue Analysis for Government and Public Policy" Bryan Fischer ever kid around about anything. Especially Teh Ghey. It appears to be straight-up fear and hate, all day, every day.

operative
11-17-2010, 06:37 PM
Unbelievable. I mean, you read and it's got to be a joke. Please tell me that indeed, it is a joke.

Not a joke, just a very stupid argument. Saving lives isn't masculine, it's feminine. Killing people is masculine.


We rightly honor those who give up their lives to save their comrades. It’s about time we started also honoring those who kill bad guys.

Of course, Giunta also knocked off a few bad guys, but I guess Fischer missed that.

graz
11-17-2010, 06:45 PM
Of course, Giunta also knocked off a few bad guys, but I guess Fischer missed that.

辨护者

operative
11-17-2010, 06:53 PM
辨护者

什么? 也许我的中文真不好,但是这样对我没有含义

Ocean
11-17-2010, 06:58 PM
I have never seen any evidence (e.g. (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2010/05/wingnut-hate-machine-firing-on-all.html), e.g. (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2010/08/more-wingnut-hate-noted-for-record.html)) that the American Family Association or its (http://action.afa.net/detail.aspx?id=2147486648) "director of Issue Analysis for Government and Public Policy" Bryan Fischer ever kid around about anything. Especially Teh Ghey. It appears to be straight-up fear and hate, all day, every day.

Huh. Interesting, isn't it?

He received the "Friend of Life" award from Idaho Chooses Life in 2003, and the "Christian Statesman" award from the Biblical Worldview Learning Center in 2005.

Friend of Life? Idaho Chooses Life? How gay!

Thank you for the feedback.

operative
11-17-2010, 07:04 PM
Huh. Interesting, isn't it?



Friend of Life? Idaho Chooses Life? How gay!

Thank you for the feedback.

He's probably not normally in 'profoundly-stupid' mode. Everyone has an editorial lowpoint (well, Tom Friedman has one every time he dares to write a piece that includes talking about China), his just happened to be pretty low.

Ocean
11-17-2010, 07:19 PM
He's probably not normally in 'profoundly-stupid' mode. Everyone has an editorial lowpoint (well, Tom Friedman has one every time he dares to write a piece that includes talking about China), his just happened to be pretty low.

Why do you feel so compelled to defend him? I don't know who he is or what he usually writes about. I'm only expressing my opinion about this one piece which seems so absurd, that I seriously thought it had to be a joke. Looking at his bio, considering his theological and bible studies, I would have expected someone who would defend peace, compassion and saving lives, instead of trying to create an impression that it is a lesser merit when someone in the military risks his life to save others.

If you have any affiliation, via political or religious views, with him, I would hope that this is the kind of stuff you should be denouncing.

operative
11-17-2010, 07:29 PM
Why do you feel so compelled to defend him? I don't know who he is or what he usually writes about. I'm only expressing my opinion about this one piece which seems so absurd, that I seriously thought it had to be a joke. Looking at his bio, considering his theological and bible studies, I would have expected someone who would defend peace, compassion and saving lives, instead of trying to create an impression that it is a lesser merit when someone in the military risks his life to save others.

If you have any affiliation, via political or religious views, with him, I would hope that this is the kind of stuff you should be denouncing.

I'm really not trying to defend him (at least what I would consider to be a 'defense'), I'm just saying that he probably hasn't spent his entire career writing columns as stupid as that one. That doesn't mean he's writing posts that'd get a lot of agreement on here. I just think this one is a bit too loony to represent the body of work of anyone who still has a job that doesn't relate to WND. And no, I don't have any affiliation with him--I'd never even heard of the guy.

AemJeff
11-17-2010, 07:31 PM
And then there's this (http://wonkette.com/430470/afas-bryan-fischer-medal-of-honor-only-awarded-for-being-gay-in-line-of-duty):

It's worth checking out the comments over there. This guy's getting almost no love.

Sample:

Hey, bub, I'd like to see you square up to practically any serving member of the armed forces and find out how many seconds it takes them to soundly "feminize" you. Can your body cash the check your mouth is more than willing to write? I think we all know the answer.

Heh.

popcorn_karate
11-18-2010, 02:43 PM
I'm really not trying to defend him

ok

I'm just saying that he probably hasn't spent his entire career writing columns as stupid as that one. That doesn't mean he's writing posts that'd get a lot of agreement on here. I just think this one is a bit too loony to represent the body of work of anyone who still has a job that doesn't relate to WND. And no, I don't have any affiliation with him--I'd never even heard of the guy.

but then you go on and defend his record - which you know nothing about (having never heard of the guy).

think you can get a little more tribal?

operative
11-18-2010, 06:36 PM
ok



but then you go on and defend his record - which you know nothing about (having never heard of the guy).

think you can get a little more tribal?

I just think it's reasonable to assume that he hasn't made a career of being that stupid, because he probably wouldn't have a job if he did.

Ocean
11-18-2010, 06:52 PM
I just think it's reasonable to assume that he hasn't made a career of being that stupid, because he probably wouldn't have a job if he did.

I think you have to reason this backwards. The right question to ask is: what kind of unreasonable circumstances permit someone that stupid to have a job expressing his opinion?

chiwhisoxx
11-18-2010, 06:57 PM
I just think it's reasonable to assume that he hasn't made a career of being that stupid, because he probably wouldn't have a job if he did.

Don't most cable news people disprove this

bjkeefe
11-20-2010, 04:05 AM
Tom Levenson: here (http://inversesquare.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/on-veterans-day/) and here (http://www.balloon-juice.com/2010/11/10/on-the-eve-of-veteransarmistice-day/).

bjkeefe
11-23-2010, 02:57 PM
O beautiful for heroes proved
In liberating strife,
Who more than self their country loved,
And mercy more than life

A rebuttal of sorts: "So, what I think about the military (http://highclearing.com/index.php/archives/2010/11/18/12119)."