PDA

View Full Version : Feisal Rauf & I - Shameless Promotion


PreppyMcPrepperson
09-13-2010, 03:20 AM
So I wrote something on Rauf (http://www.maha-rafi-atal.com/2010/09/feisal-rauf-and-me-a-very-long-new-york-story/) because his sermon on Friday was so good that I couldn't not share it. I was otherwise planning to avoid the whole Cordoba House kerfuffle lacking truly intelligent things to say. But since it's played such a big role as a topic here at BHTV, thought I'd share.

graz
09-13-2010, 06:04 AM
So I wrote something on Rauf (http://www.maha-rafi-atal.com/2010/09/feisal-rauf-and-me-a-very-long-new-york-story/) because his sermon on Friday was so good that I couldn't not share it. I was otherwise planning to avoid the whole Cordoba House kerfuffle lacking truly intelligent things to say. But since it's played such a big role as a topic here at BHTV, thought I'd share.

The toothpaste will not go back in the tube. Good luck trying to reclaim the issue as a local-only event. Your hope that Bloomberg will expend even further political capital and proceed as you suggested is possible, but do you think likely?

If Rauf is lamenting the lack of visible and vocal participation in just such a campaign by members of the faith itself, isn't it just wishful thinking to expect outsiders to rally and champion such a diffuse cause?

Are you ready to picket or risk the heat of an ignorant, let alone righteous opponent, right up in your grille? That might be an essential step to inspire your elected officials and neighbors to commit to the level of support you wish to see realized.

TwinSwords
09-13-2010, 07:22 AM
Excellent piece. Thanks for writing it, and sharing it here.

PreppyMcPrepperson
09-13-2010, 09:17 AM
Your hope that Bloomberg will expend even further political capital and proceed as you suggested is possible, but do you think likely?

I don't think it's likely. Which is a shame. Because I do think it's doable.

If Rauf is lamenting the lack of visible and vocal participation in just such a campaign by members of the faith itself, isn't it just wishful thinking to expect outsiders to rally and champion such a diffuse cause?

But that is the thing--outsiders ARE rallying for it. That was his point. That there's a huge outpouring of support, coming from people whose first concern is for New York.

Are you ready to picket or risk the heat of an ignorant, let alone righteous opponent, right up in your grille? That might be an essential step to inspire your elected officials and neighbors to commit to the level of support you wish to see realized.

It was pretty chilly the day of the rallies on Saturday. I was on deadline for something else, or I'd probably have been there. If there's another one, I might go. Reporter friends of mine who were downtown covering it said the pro-mosque crowd was definitely larger than the anti-mosque crowd. Which is heartening.

PreppyMcPrepperson
09-13-2010, 09:18 AM
Excellent piece. Thanks for writing it, and sharing it here.

Thanks, Twin. Glad you enjoyed it.

stephanie
09-13-2010, 12:19 PM
Excellent piece. Thanks for writing it, and sharing it here.

I agree. Very interesting, thanks.

PreppyMcPrepperson
09-13-2010, 03:42 PM
I agree. Very interesting, thanks.

You're welcome Stephanie, and thanks for the kind words.

Lyle
09-14-2010, 10:38 PM
Jesus Christ Preppy... the Pentagon isn't in New York City (nor is Pennsylvania). This is a really selfish piece of writing... and ignorant. It's not even arguably fair to say a majority of NYC supports the interfaith center (some polls have concluded otherwise). And even if barely a half of NYC supports it, why doesn't the other half support it and have the exact same view of the situation as you? Talk about collectivist thinking. Your experience was like every other New Yorker's experience? Everyone in New York thinks just like you do? Are they all as self-centered as you?

... and what about Imam's Rauf support of extremists? Does he not defend Hamas? Does he not believe that some so-called terrorists are in fact "freedom fighters"? Is that maybe why the crowd at the mosque that day was smaller than usual? The dude does have some character flaws Preppy.

Separately, as a nonpracticing Muslim do you believe Mohammad actually communed with God or do you think he was more akin to the American Mohammadian Joseph Smith?

PreppyMcPrepperson
09-15-2010, 12:30 AM
Jesus Christ Preppy... the Pentagon isn't in New York City (nor is Pennsylvania).

I said 9/11 happened here. It also happened physically in those two other places. It did not happen--physically--anywhere else. Psychologically, it was national too. But not physically. So questions about what can or cannot physically be constructed here should be a local question first. What can or cannot be constructed in the area near the Pentagon should be up to people who live in the District. Etc.

It's not even arguably fair to say a majority of NYC supports the interfaith center (some polls have concluded otherwise).

The polling I've seen quoted on local news has been hovering in the range of 50-60% in favor. That's what I was referencing. I'm aware that there are different data sets from other pollsters. But as you may have gathered, I'm biased towards the local.

And even if barely a half of NYC supports it, why doesn't the other half support it and have the exact same view of the situation as you? Talk about collectivist thinking. Your experience was like every other New Yorker's experience? Everyone in New York thinks just like you do? Are they all as self-centered as you?

1. I said 'many of us' not 'all of us,' and this was influenced by conversations with many other New Yorkers, some of whom sent me emails yesterday to say 'me too!'
2. It's New York. Of course we're all self-centered. ;)

... and what about Imam's Rauf support of extremists? Does he not defend Hamas? Does he not believe that some so-called terrorists are in fact "freedom fighters"? Is that maybe why the crowd at the mosque that day was smaller than usual? The dude does have some character flaws Preppy.

I have already told you, I have never myself heard him say those things. And I will surely challenge them if and when I do. The piece is about my experience of his views.

Separately, as a nonpracticing Muslim do you believe Mohammad actually communed with God or do you think he was more akin to the American Mohammadian Joseph Smith?

I'm a nonpracticing Muslim but I'm not an atheist. I am an agnostic on the end of the agnostic spectrum that is decently close to belief and to be entirely honest, I wrestle with myself about how to interpret miracles. So the answer, I don't know.

Wonderment
09-15-2010, 03:01 AM
Very nicely done, Preppy.

You provided an interesting perspective on the 9/11 disaster, Feisal Rauf and the Cordoba Center. Thanks for sharing your insights.

PreppyMcPrepperson
09-15-2010, 03:04 AM
Very nicely done, Preppy.

Thanks, Wonderment!

Thanks for sharing your insights.

And you're welcome.

handle
09-15-2010, 03:55 PM
... and what about Imam's Rauf support of extremists? Does he not defend Hamas? Does he not believe that some so-called terrorists are in fact "freedom fighters"? Is that maybe why the crowd at the mosque that day was smaller than usual? The dude does have some character flaws Preppy.
...

Transcript from the Larry King Live show interview: (http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1009/08/lkl.01.html)

O'BRIEN: There have been a lot of questions, and I think a fair amount of controversy and criticism about questions that people have had about your take on Hamas. You were asked in an interview in the radio; the interviewer said, is the State Department correct in designating Hamas as a terror group? And you dodged the question. You went on a long time. But there was really sort of no answer to it.

So -- and I guess people sense that whatever that answer is, if you -- if you don't condemn Hamas, then in a way maybe you're supporting Hamas as a terror organization. So I guess I'd ask that question again. Do you -- you know, is the State Department right in saying that Hamas is a terrorist organization?

RAUF: I condemn everyone and anyone who commits acts of terrorism. And Hamas has committed acts of terrorism.

Ha Ha ..Catch up Lyle... ha ha ha.

Lyle
09-15-2010, 09:28 PM
I said 9/11 happened here. It also happened physically in those two other places. It did not happen--physically--anywhere else. Psychologically, it was national too. But not physically. So questions about what can or cannot physically be constructed here should be a local question first. What can or cannot be constructed in the area near the Pentagon should be up to people who live in the District. Etc.

Yet the point of Park51 is to place it near the 9/11 site because it was a national and world event, and not just a local one. Furthermore, there are New Yorkers who have stepped out their buildings, gotten on the subway, and rode down to Park51 to protest what is going on. They live in New York too. They were in New York on 9/11. Some of them had family die in the buildings. And they do not see Park51 the way you do, and you definitely do not speak for them... nor does Mayor Bloomberg.

edit: you say that further down... got it.

The polling I've seen quoted on local news has been hovering in the range of 50-60% in favor. That's what I was referencing. I'm aware that there are different data sets from other pollsters. But as you may have gathered, I'm biased towards the local.

Yep, such is the case apparently.

1. I said 'many of us' not 'all of us,' and this was influenced by conversations with many other New Yorkers, some of whom sent me emails yesterday to say 'me too!'

I read an absolute statement in there, but I'll take it you meant this. And oh yes, Preppy's blog commentariat spans the spectrum of New York opinion. :)

2. It's New York. Of course we're all self-centered. ;)

Assholes!

I have already told you, I have never myself heard him say those things. And I will surely challenge them if and when I do. The piece is about my experience of his views.

Do some muckraking girl.

I'm a nonpracticing Muslim but I'm not an atheist. I am an agnostic on the end of the agnostic spectrum that is decently close to belief and to be entirely honest, I wrestle with myself about how to interpret miracles. So the answer, I don't know.

I'm more or less of the same faithlessness as you. That said, Imam Feisal Rauf strikes me as a peddler of Sufi smut.

By the way, what do you have against the hajib? You seem to be particularly proud of the fact that that mosque didn't have any women in hajib.

Lyle
09-15-2010, 09:31 PM
Yep, he's singing a different tune now. Good for him.

handle
09-15-2010, 09:48 PM
Yep, he's singing a different tune now. Good for him.

So you think he is like you, wearing a cloak of tolerance while harboring a deep animosity toward a loosely defined group of people?

Ocean
09-15-2010, 10:20 PM
By the way, what do you have against the hajib? You seem to be particularly proud of the fact that that mosque didn't have any women in hajib.

I'm waiting to see whether you'll start calling it the jihab. ;)

Ocean
09-15-2010, 10:28 PM
Rauf seems to have an interesting take on spirituality with his concept of counterfeit spirituality and hijacking the language of religion. However, that's not a new phenomenon. It's has always coexisted with the more noble aspects of spirituality. Perhaps his inclusion of atheists and agnostics is the most novel (to me) part.

Thank you for sharing your article.

PreppyMcPrepperson
09-15-2010, 10:40 PM
a peddler of Sufi smut.

Please explain. What is Sufi smut?

Whatfur
09-15-2010, 11:04 PM
Hey, he's a busy guy. (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/09/15/2010-09-15_judge_to_ground_zero_mosque_imam_clean_up_healt h_violations_at_tenement_or_face_.html).

Wonderment
09-16-2010, 12:38 AM
Rauf seems to have an interesting take on spirituality with his concept of counterfeit spirituality and hijacking the language of religion.

Sounds a lot like Reform Judaism, especially the affluent part, the non-segregation of men and women, and the part about reading the transliterated Arabic.

PreppyMcPrepperson
09-16-2010, 01:28 AM
Sounds a lot like Reform Judaism, especially the affluent part, the non-segregation of men and women, and the part about reading the transliterated Arabic.

The Reform Judaism comparison is apt; I know a number of Muslims who actually talk about that as a model for what they are trying to achieve.

Lyle
09-18-2010, 05:58 AM
Oh... it's my stab at making a Christopher Hitchens like insult of Sufism. I mean, Imam Feisal Rauf makes money off of his preaching, no?

Smut and Sufism are just alliterative. And smut would apply to whatever religion/sub-religion the world over. There's nothing specific about Sufism that is especially smutty.

... and yes, I can appreciate myself some Whirling Dervishes too. Amen.

Lyle
09-18-2010, 06:01 AM
No, not at all. I'm simply agreeing with you that he has begun to moderate his voice. That's a good thing.

PreppyMcPrepperson
09-18-2010, 04:29 PM
Oh... it's my stab at making a Christopher Hitchens like insult of Sufism. I mean, Imam Feisal Rauf makes money off of his preaching, no?

Smut and Sufism are just alliterative. And smut would apply to whatever religion/sub-religion the world over. There's nothing specific about Sufism that is especially smutty.

... and yes, I can appreciate myself some Whirling Dervishes too. Amen.

Hmm, I think that kind of dig (whether at Sufism or anything else) is something to avoid. I can't and won't try to enforce that on others, but I will at least respond that I find it kind of deplorable as a rhetorical device. I feel the same when Hitchens does it.

Not there isn't a sustained argument to be made about the relationship of money to faith. Indeed, it's one that people have making for centuries (see: indulgences, history of) Just that a word like 'smut' is not a useful way to make it, or one I appreciate.

Lyle
09-18-2010, 09:01 PM
That's cool. It's a cruel dig, I agree.

handle
09-19-2010, 09:52 PM
No, not at all. I'm simply agreeing with you that he has begun to moderate his voice. That's a good thing.

My point was that he had already said it and you were posting that he hadn't as if if were a fact. Let me guess, it was some kind of obsolete (unbeknownst to you) talking point.

Lyle
09-20-2010, 03:18 AM
No, that's not actually what I said.

By the way, when he did he make this new, vague comment? Last year or last week?

handle
09-20-2010, 03:59 PM
No, that's not actually what I said.

By the way, when he did he make this new, vague comment? Last year or last week?

Did you not phrase it in the form of a question?
So as to enable plausible deniability?
Can you not click the link and compare the date to that of your post?
Did you not side step my actual question about suspecting him of employing the Lyle style of denial?