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bjkeefe
07-16-2010, 09:21 AM
It's somewhere between a fantasy of mine and a rational belief that, yes, this is something we ought to be working toward, so (in violation of what follows!), let's have a thread devoted to it, so we can fix all of this country's woes.

And to start us off, let's hear from one of my favorite liberaltarian 'heads. No, not Brink Lindsey, the other one. (Also, this guy is a favorite 'head without qualifier.)

Yeah, there doesn’t seem to be much interest on the left in any kind of broad self-conscious “Liberaltarian Alliance”—but practical political coalitions don’t actually spring from New Republic essays, any more than real-world friendships arise from a formal declaration of an intent to be friends.. They’re a function of actually getting out there and doing the work, issue by issue, bill by bill, election by election. Given my own pattern of interests, I end up mostly working on issues where I agree with civil libertarians on the left. And pretty much without exception, they’re happy to work with me on those issues, and for that limited purpose indifferent to whatever disagreements we might have over optimal levels of federal taxation and spending. None of the folks I’ve written for at the Prospect or the Nation have ever expressed the least reservation about running something with a Cato byline. If anything, I think left-leaning civil libertarians are happy to be able to point to us as evidence that opposition to torture or sweeping surveillance authority isn’t some strictly partisan punch up between Democrats and Republicans. There are, to be sure, advantages to broader alliances, but one benefit to keeping both parties (and their associated movements) at arms-length is that I think (or would like to think) that it’s hard to credibly argue I’m going to take a position or write an op-ed on one of my core issues with the primary motive of rooting for or against one team or another. Membership has its privileges, but so does a measure of distance.

That Julian Sanchez (http://www.juliansanchez.com/2010/07/14/libertarian-coalitions/), huh? How often does he say things where my reaction is, "Exactly. That's what I think. Now how come I never thought to say it?"

(h/t: One of nikkibong's minor demons (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/07/limited-alliances.html))

cragger
07-16-2010, 01:59 PM
BH Brink Lindsey is less than overjoyed to ally with liberals to the point of considering a libertaltarian fusion, but appalled by contemporary conservatives who are in so many ways the direct antithesis of libertarians:

http://reason.com/archives/2010/07/12/where-do-libertarians-belong/

bjkeefe
07-16-2010, 02:12 PM
BH Brink Lindsey is less than overjoyed to ally with liberals to the point of considering a libertaltarian fusion, but appalled by contemporary conservatives who are in so many ways the direct antithesis of libertarians:

http://reason.com/archives/2010/07/12/where-do-libertarians-belong/

Thanks for the link. I'm a little too distracted to read it closely at the moment, but while I think of it, for the record, he did, at an earlier time (http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6800), sound more enthusiastic about teh fusion; e.g.,

Can a new, progressive fusionism break out of the current rut? Liberals and libertarians already share considerable common ground, if they could just see past their differences to recognize it. Both generally support a more open immigration policy. Both reject the religious right's homophobia and blastocystophilia. Both are open to rethinking the country's draconian drug policies. Both seek to protect the United States from terrorism without gratuitous encroachments on civil liberties or extensions of executive power. And underlying all these policy positions is a shared philosophical commitment to individual autonomy as a core political value.

The central challenge in cementing a new fusionist alliance--and, make no mistake, it is a daunting one--is to elaborate a vision of economic policy, and policy reform, that both liberals and libertarians can support. Here, again, both sides seek to promote individual autonomy; but their conceptions differ as to the chief threats to that autonomy. Libertarians worry primarily about constraints imposed by government, while liberals worry most about constraints imposed by birth and the play of economic forces.

The basic outlines of a viable compromise are clear enough. [...]

bjkeefe
07-16-2010, 02:17 PM
Or, maybe, what we'll need for equipment to carry out this fusion successfully?

See attached for ad being displayed as of this moment.

JoeK
07-16-2010, 03:15 PM
Elusive Libertarians (http://article.nationalreview.com/425322/elusive-libertarians/john-zogby-zeljka-buturovic)

bjkeefe
07-16-2010, 03:28 PM
Elusive Libertarians (http://article.nationalreview.com/425322/elusive-libertarians/john-zogby-zeljka-buturovic)

Recent observations on the authors of that piece: John Zogby (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2010/07/polling-analyst-catfight.html) and Zeljka Buturovic (http://doghouseriley.blogspot.com/2010/06/six-have-you-stopped-economically.html).

That is, I am sorry that I cannot be persuaded to read a five-page article by these two without more work on your part.

JoeK
07-16-2010, 03:28 PM
BH Brink Lindsey is less than overjoyed to ally with liberals to the point of considering a libertaltarian fusion, but appalled by contemporary conservatives who are in so many ways the direct antithesis of libertarians:

http://reason.com/archives/2010/07/12/where-do-libertarians-belong/

Brink Lindsey's are minority views among self-identified libertarians, see Bryan Caplan (http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2010/07/the_productiven.html):


The Productiveness of Conversation: My Ranking
Bryan Caplan
Reading the Reason debate between Brink Lindsey, Jonah Goldberg, and Matt Kibbe inspired me to rank how productive I find conservations with the following groups. #1 = "most productive"; #6 = "least productive":

1. Libertarian economists
2. Conservative economists
3. Libertarian non-economists
4. Liberal economists
5. Conservative non-economists
6. Liberal non-economists

Somehow I think Matt Yglesias won't like my ranking, but there it is. Yours?


Liberaltarianism always seemed to me more a case of BoBo class solidarity than an actual political movement, says Glenn Reynolds (http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/102838/).

AemJeff
07-16-2010, 03:31 PM
...
That Julian Sanchez (http://www.juliansanchez.com/2010/07/14/libertarian-coalitions/), huh? How often does he say things where my reaction is, "Exactly. That's what I think. Now how come I never thought to say it?"

...

Great minds (and sometimes even mine...) think alike. I often have the same experience regarding Sanchez. I'd like it if he showed here more often.

JoeK
07-16-2010, 03:32 PM
Recent observations on the authors of that piece: John Zogby (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2010/07/polling-analyst-catfight.html) and Zeljka Buturovic (http://doghouseriley.blogspot.com/2010/06/six-have-you-stopped-economically.html).

That is, I am sorry that I cannot be persuaded to read a five-page article by these two without more work on your part.

Fair enough. It's an interesting read, though. Should not be considered a chore.

AemJeff
07-16-2010, 03:34 PM
Brink Lindsey's are minority views among self-identified libertarians, see Bryan Caplan (http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2010/07/the_productiven.html):



Liberaltarianism always seemed to me more a case of BoBo class solidarity than an actual political movement, says Glenn Reynolds (http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/102838/).

It's fair to say that Brink's views aren't widely shared among other libertarians - though that seems only peripheral to the point here. What Reynolds says, though, is by definition irrelevant to the point of view of anyone who might find this to be an interesting, attractive idea.

bjkeefe
07-16-2010, 03:42 PM
Fair enough. It's an interesting read, though. Should not be considered a chore.

Okay. Maybe when it gets a little cooler. Also, I saw just before closing the tab that it's only three pages.

bjkeefe
07-16-2010, 03:43 PM
What Reynolds says, though, is by definition irrelevant to the point of view of anyone who might find this to be an interesting, attractive idea.

Oh let me say it let me let me let me ...

Heh, indeed.

JoeK
07-16-2010, 03:44 PM
It's fair to say that Brink's views aren't widely shared among other libertarians - though that seems only peripheral to the point here. What Reynolds says, though, is by definition irrelevant to the point of view of anyone who might find this to be an interesting, attractive idea.
Whatever, the Reynold's quip was endorsed by Arnold Kling here: Libertarians and the Tea Party Movement (http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2010/07/libertarians_an_4.html).

AemJeff
07-16-2010, 03:50 PM
Whatever, the Reynold's quip was endorsed by Arnold Kling here: Libertarians and the Tea Party Movement (http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2010/07/libertarians_an_4.html).

Yeah, not to be too snarky, but it never hurts your page-hits to link to Instapundit; though he does try to link that reference to his preferences for lively working-class folks over stuffy religion profs.

cragger
07-17-2010, 09:41 AM
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the views Mr. Lindsey expressed are not widely espoused by self-identified libertarians. Many of these folks don't evidence any particular interest in libertarian ideals beyond the extension of the principle of individual freedom into an excuse for espousing the idea that economic rules should be structured so that those of wealth, power, and privilege should be have unrestricted ability to leverage their wealth to obtain ever more of the same status. As such, it isn't very surprising that Mr. Caplan's list of people he likes to talk to centers around those who agree with him on this economic structure, and he is happier surrounding himself with those who perfer an authoritarian state.

bjkeefe
07-21-2010, 03:01 PM
Stossel, Postrel, and one of the Koch Foundation's rentboys (not Welch, the other one) explain why REAL libertarians simply cannot get along with these Democrats and liberals, on FoxNews.

Roy Edroso reports. (http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2010/07/annals-of-libertarianism-part-636888.html)