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coberst
05-27-2010, 07:54 AM
Crude Poetic Justice?

Wikipedia informs me that “poetic justice” is a notion that fictional literature takes on as a cultural demand whereby literary outcomes must support moral standards by justifying in the end the virtuous behavior of the good guy and punishing the bad behavior of the bad guy. Furthermore logic is also maintained.

How can our (American) present troubles be considered as poetic justice?

Let us just examine the great human manufactured catastrophes visited upon us in the last few years; the Great Crude Oil Smear, the deadliest mine disaster in three decades, the greatest financial catastrophe since the Great Depression, and the looming global climate change induced by human activity.

The common element in all of these catastrophes is our three decade guiding premise that Government is the problem while Free Market forces are the solution.

Poetic Justice results because the American people are punished, with a great crude oil smear, by the logic of their commitment to the free market and their dark suspicion of government regulation.

Perhaps God is a practical joker!

Ocean
05-27-2010, 08:42 AM
Children learn by practice. A toddler may bang a toy against the floor repeatedly with increasing force. If the toy breaks, he/she may have learned a lesson. Hopefully, next time he/she will be gentler. No practical joker or teacher needed. All we have is a brain ready to learn from experience. Or not.

Free markets as a panacea is the Utopian dream of unbreakable toys.

cragger
05-27-2010, 01:03 PM
Free markets as a panacea is the Utopian dream of unbreakable toys.

I tend to think of it more as a fantasy of infinite toys. It doesn't matter how many somebody grabs as there will always be an infinite supply for those with slower hands or less willingness to shoulder others aside. It doesn't matter what you break, since there are infinitely more available. It doesn't matter that we trash this biosphere since we can all go live on Mars with Jim Pinkerton. No oceans there to get polluted from (or upset by) oil spills!

Ocean
05-27-2010, 03:16 PM
No oceans there ...

Say no more. ;)

Whatfur
05-27-2010, 10:33 PM
Children learn by practice. A toddler may bang a toy against the floor repeatedly with increasing force. If the toy breaks, he/she may have learned a lesson. Hopefully, next time he/she will be gentler. No practical joker or teacher needed. All we have is a brain ready to learn from experience. Or not.

Free markets as a panacea is the Utopian dream of unbreakable toys.

When I first started to read this I thought you were about to make a statement about how the oil companies knew that there always was a possibility of something like the gulf oil disaster happening. Along with the hope was that its scale was going to be much smaller than this one has proven to be ...something they could learn from.

Had to admit disappointment when it turned to pseudo-validation of coberst idiotic invention. Someone could have painted similar analogies with others being punished from on high...like environmentalists making it difficult to drill for oil on land, and their stance against building nuclear plants, or liberals Senators wanting wind power but not in their back yard, or VPs talking absolute ignorant BS about coal burning plants having people wake up every day to deal with soot....or or or

Bottom line is, I have seen coberst be almost sagacious at times...here he seems to play to the crowd...easy pickings, but hardly clever.

bjkeefe
05-28-2010, 12:35 AM
Free markets as a panacea is the Utopian dream of unbreakable toys.

No oceans there ...Say no more. ;)

Ocean wins this thread. Twice.

Although cragger's Infinite Toy/Live on Mars with Pinkerton Hypothesis wins strong honorable mention.

coberst
05-28-2010, 05:27 AM
In a democracy such as we have in the United States the people are sovereign and thus responsible for the situation that exists. The lack of intellectual sophistication of the citizens is the fault of those citizens.

The basic problem began when the people allowed them self to be convinced that government was the problem and that the free market was the solution. These problems developed because the American citizen left Corporate America free and unregulated.

The American people are too naive to comprehend the problem and too frightened of reality to accept their responsibility.

An oligarchy controls public policy in America. The oligarchy consists of those who manage the great wealth of American institutions. This oligarchy designs our educational system to graduate good producers and consumers and does not desire independent thinkers.

CA (Corporate America) has developed a well-honed expertise in motivating the population to behave in a desired manner. Citizens as consumers are ample manifestation of that expertise. CA has accomplished this ability by careful study and implementation of the knowledge of the ways of human behavior. I suspect this same structure applies to most Western democracies.

A democratic form of government is one wherein the citizens have some voice in some policy decisions. The greater the voice of the citizens the better the democracy. The greater the intellectual sophistication of those citizens the better the democracy.

In America we have policy makers, decision makers, and citizens. The decision makers are our elected representatives and are, thus, under some control by the voting citizen. The policy makers are the leaders of CA; less than ten thousand individuals, according to those who study such matters. Policy makers exercise significant control of decision makers by controlling the financing of elections.

Policy makers customize and maintain the dominant ideology in order to control the political behavior of the citizens. This dominant ideology exercises the political control of the citizens in the same fashion as the consuming citizen is controlled by the same dominant ideology.

An enlightened citizen is the only means to gain more voice in more policy decisions. An enlightened citizen is much more than an informed citizen. Critical thinking is the only practical means to develop a more enlightened citizen. If, however, we wait until our CT trained grade-schoolers become adults I suspect all will be lost. This is why I think a massive effort must be made to convince today’s adults that they must train themselves in CT.


“Thomas R. Dye, Professor of Political Science at Florida State University, has published a series of books examining who and what institutions actually control and run America. to understand who is making the decisions that affect our lives, we also have to understand how societies structure themselves in general. Why the few always tend to share more power than the many and what this means in terms of both a society's evolution and our daily lives. they examined the other 11 institutions that exert just as powerful a shaping influence, although somewhat more subtle: The Industrial, Corporations, Utilities and Communications, Banking, Insurance Investment, Mass Media, Law, Education Foundation, Civic and Cultural Organizations, Government, and the Military.”

Whatfur
05-28-2010, 07:20 AM
Now you're talking, coberst. Glad I could bring you (or Mr. Dye) out of that state of melancholy.

"Critical thinking is the only practical means to develop a more enlightened citizen."

Ocean
05-28-2010, 06:44 PM
Ocean wins this thread. Twice.

Although cragger's Infinite Toy/Live on Mars with Pinkerton Hypothesis wins strong honorable mention.

Thank you, Brendan. Twice. :)

coberst
05-29-2010, 05:50 AM
The United States with 5% of the global population, which consumes 25% of the global production of petroleum, becomes tarred with petroleum; that is poetic justice!

Whatfur
05-29-2010, 08:52 AM
The United States with 5% of the global population, which consumes 25% of the global production of petroleum, becomes tarred with petroleum; that is poetic justice!

Irony maybe...but sorry coberst, only an idiot with a fanatic streak would find global "justice" in an oil spill. You are leaving out a whole slew of other U.S., leading, %s while ignoring the innocents affected, in an effort to invent a point also.

bjkeefe
05-30-2010, 01:41 AM
You are leaving out a whole slew of other U.S., leading, %s while ignoring the innocents affected, in an effort to invent a point also.

Is our old furry creature actually Sarah Palin? I mean, the fractured syntax in the above ...

... only an idiot ...

Okay, well. Yeah. That.

Also.

coberst
05-30-2010, 06:54 AM
Irony maybe...but sorry coberst, only an idiot with a fanatic streak would find global "justice" in an oil spill. You are leaving out a whole slew of other U.S., leading, %s while ignoring the innocents affected, in an effort to invent a point also.

The situation is irony, poetic justice, and tragedy all rolled into one giant tare ball.