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cragger
05-22-2010, 02:58 PM
Oil industry insider's take on the response to the Gulf oil spill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx8kMXufu3w

WARNING: There is a deliberate, tongue-in-cheek use of oil field vernacular that is NSFW.

listener
05-23-2010, 01:01 AM
Oil industry insider's take on the response to the Gulf oil spill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx8kMXufu3w

WARNING: There is a deliberate, tongue-in-cheek use of oil field vernacular that is NSFW.

Very interesting video. Do you know who produced it? Also, though what was being described seemed plausible enough, because it wasn't clear to me whose words were being spoken, and on what authority the facts were being asserted, I didn't really know how to evaluate the veracity of what was being claimed.

cragger
05-23-2010, 11:29 AM
No idea who the narrator is. She described herself as a highly paid long-term industry person who presumably would like to remain so, hence the lack of a name, and who was speaking as an individual rather than as a corporate spokesperson. Taken together with a desire to remain in the industry this would again point to the lack of such curriculum vitae as "I work for XYC corp."

The basic point she made - that the booming work performed is being done iwrong by folks who don't know what they are doing directed by others concerned primarily about the PR value - doesn't seem like rocket science or particularly hard to evaluate. More a case of pointing out the obvious than making some esoteric claim requiring special knowlege and expertise which must be taken on the authority of the speaker because such understanding is beyond the simple common-sense capacity of the listener.

ledocs
05-23-2010, 12:47 PM
Thanks for posting that, cragger. In which we learn that private industry does not have the public interest at heart and government does not have the public interest at heart because it is in the pocket of private industry. So the solution is obviously to minimize government...not. No, the fucking "solution" is for people to make government better, to make government govern and educate the people who elect people to govern them. Instead of a vicious circle in which piece-of-shit electors choose piece-of-shit governors, we get a beneficent circle of positive feedback loops in which informed electors choose fallible but highly intelligent and well-intentioned governors who look not to their own interests, or to the interests of monied clients who fill their campaign coffers, but to the interests of the electors and of the world at large. We get a world in which the elected are not piece-of-shit glorified lobbyists but actual public servants. It's not a left or right thing, it's a piece-of-shit versus public interest thing.

graz
05-23-2010, 01:19 PM
But... At least the survivors were given the "royal" treatment. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/may/20/survivor-deepwater-horizon-gulf-oil-explosion)

Whatfur
05-23-2010, 01:35 PM
So the solution is obviously to minimize government...not. No, the fucking "solution" is for people to make government better, to make government govern and educate the people who elect people to govern them.

But I thought Obama was "better" government and that it was not important that we knew anything about him before he was elected.

I'm sorry did I sound like Swartz?

Starwatcher162536
05-24-2010, 04:19 PM
Yes, this incident has also disillusioned me with Obama.

Nitpicks; The 5000 bbl/day estimate comes from surface measurements and satellite images, it is therefore not a spill estimate but a slick estimate. None of the added info that has since become available invalidates the slick numbers. This misunderstanding is the MSM's fault for not taking into account not all the oil is reaching the surface and that a substantial fraction of the oil is highly volatile and evaporates quickly and have thereby conflated two unrelated concepts. BP has always said there is no way to accurately measure how much oil is spilling (Not that I believe them on this).

The 5,000 bbl/day estimate is not BP's estimate, it is the USCG and NOAA's estimate. This is an important distinction since people are claiming that perceived faults in this estimate is proof that BP is incompetent and/or untrustworthy (Not that I think they are trustworthy)

Whatfur
05-25-2010, 12:16 AM
"Mr. President, I am a huge fan, but this is now YOUR oil spill"

Oh..oh. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x-bieyxClg)


and then a little something from HuffPo. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-daou/the-great-shame-americas_b_586377.html)

handle
05-25-2010, 02:56 PM
Wow... The post-Bush-born-again-libertarian, Whatfur of Halliburton, insists on spinning his mess off on the the government. If this wasn't such a tragedy, It would be the most hilarious thing I've ever seen on this board.
You sir, are giving pointless partisan parasites everywhere a bad name.

Whatfur
05-25-2010, 05:23 PM
"If Bush had uttered something as mindlessly self-evident as “plug the damn hole” during crisis management, there’d already be t-shirts on sale on lefty blogs with that phrase emblazoned over a picture of him looking like a baboon. " (http://hotair.com/archives/2010/05/25/obama-schedules-awesome-oil-spill-photo-op-in-the-gulf-for-friday/)

Whatfur
05-26-2010, 06:59 AM
"Heckuva Job" (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/05/25/obama_in_2009_on_katrina_we_are_not_going_to_forge t_about_the_gulf_coast.html)

handle
05-26-2010, 03:23 PM
"Heckuva Job" (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/05/25/obama_in_2009_on_katrina_we_are_not_going_to_forge t_about_the_gulf_coast.html)

Shame on you Whatsyername-from-spillburton. Get your arrogant ass down to the gulf and clean off some wildlife, or shut the fuck up.
This was not a natural disaster. Your industry, and more specifically, your corporation, are responsible.

The only thing a reasonable person can glean from your spin, and your lack of accountability, is that you are all little more than self serving sociopaths.
You rail against "big government" until you need help out of a jam and then you cry like a baby for "big brother " to come and bail you out.

You really don't serve a useful purpose here, and since it is apparent you spend most of your time posting your bullshit links and opinions, I have to conclude you contribute next to nothing to a society that has given you every opportunity to be an asset instead of an asshole.

Don't get me wrong, I don't claim to be much better than you, I just happen to loath your completely undeserved self admiration, and entitlement. And, oh yea, there is one more slight difference.... I happen to have a moral compass that is calibrated by what I think and feel is right, and not by what I think I can get away with.

Whatfur
05-26-2010, 05:40 PM
One little deviation from my vow of silence in dealing with the idiot that is handle...

I do not hold Obama responsible for the problem and the inability to get it fixed. That is, as they keep telling us over and over and over, is BP. I do think however he missed and is missing opportunities to reduce the damage to our coast. Hell, the first thing he did was put together a group of lawyers. The fact that he has been slow to react and far less proactive than he should be is something he will be held responsible for and should be.

I will match my moral compass with yours anytime. Your's, of course, is probably thrown off by the metal plate in your head.

handle
05-26-2010, 06:12 PM
One little deviation from my vow of silence in dealing with the idiot that is handle...

I do not hold Obama responsible for the problem and the inability to get it fixed. That is, as they keep telling us over and over and over, is BP. I do think however he missed and is missing opportunities to reduce the damage to our coast. Hell, the first thing he did was put together a group of lawyers. The fact that he has been slow to react and far less proactive than he should be is something he will be held responsible for and should be.

I will match my moral compass with yours anytime. Your's, of course, is probably thrown off by the metal plate in your head.


That was a HUGE deviation dishonestfur!

How totally typical of the modern corporate sociopath, the subcontractor assumes no liability! Moral compass my ass. You don't get to criticize the President when you haven't done shit.

It only takes a few lines of code to emulate your entire thought process:
#INPUT X
#IF <it's good for me>
#THEN <it's good for me>
#NEXT X

The plate in my head? Sort of funny I guess. Nice to see you now feel the need to buffer your bullshit with humor, maybe in a few more thousand useless posts you might get a laugh.... not holding my breath.

Whatfur
05-26-2010, 06:19 PM
Hugs buddy. Talk to you next year.

graz
05-26-2010, 06:52 PM
... The fact that he has been slow to react and far less proactive than he should be is something he will be held responsible for and should be...

So spell out the plan that you would have implemented. With the focus on specifics as they contrast with the actual steps taken thus far. This will require actual research, intelligent input and a fair assessment of the task at hand.

Can you handle it, sir?

Whatfur
05-26-2010, 08:31 PM
So spell out the plan that you would have implemented. With the focus on specifics as they contrast with the actual steps taken thus far. This will require actual research, intelligent input and a fair assessment of the task at hand.

Can you handle it, sir?

I probably would not start by leaking silly little threats nor would I ignore requests from the Governor's of the affected states but maybe...

James Carville can add some more of the obvious that could have been done by the most powerful man in the world. Watch the whole video...

"We're dying down here!" (http://www.mediaite.com/online/james-carvilles-epic-rant-on-bp-oil-spill-is-he-auditioning-for-cnn-8pm/)

It's been 30 days. Are you satisfied with what has been done to protect the coast? That's just for you to ponder not to answer as otherwise it would be too much like a dialogue and you have not left virtual ignore...but figured I gave your mentally deficient little brother one so...

Keep reading my blog, but otherwise you can "plug the damn hole". Ha!

Bubbye.

graz
05-26-2010, 08:44 PM
You got nuthin and everybody knows it.

Whatfur
05-27-2010, 01:04 PM
Thank God and BP. Looks like they have it stopped!!!

Starwatcher162536
05-27-2010, 02:40 PM
The initial plugging may not be the difficult part. A leak of 10,000 bbl/day out of a 9" riser will correspond to a flow rate of about 70 cm/s, not exactly an unstoppable volcano. Also, I'm told crude oil is rather viscous stuff, therefore there is potential for a large pressure drop as the oil flows from the reservoir to the leak. I think this whole procedure is a race between laying down gobs of concrete and the backpressure building up once capped and blowing the mud out. Everyone says we will know in 24 hours, so I guess the pressure equalizes rather quickly.

Some are claiming that even though the BOP partially failed it is still restricting the flow rate, this could change if the pressure spikes and large quantities of material blows out all at once from a failed attempt at capping it. I would bet this is one reason this procedure was not tried first.

Whatfur
05-27-2010, 04:59 PM
Yes "stopped", but not capped. Fingers-crossed.

JonIrenicus
05-27-2010, 08:13 PM
"Mr. President, I am a huge fan, but this is now YOUR oil spill"

Oh..oh. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x-bieyxClg)


and then a little something from HuffPo. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-daou/the-great-shame-americas_b_586377.html)

I am tempted to pile on as well, but then I'd be like them, those who seemed to expect Bush to personally copter into New Orleans and rescue hundreds of people one by one. Or those who placed the entire onus of the disaster and failure of planning on him.


People asking for the government to take over should have heard the innumerable reports that the government does not have the technical know how to stop the spill, so they will have to sit tight and let those who have the capability do so. If people want to get on his administration for being too sluggish on approving dredging so be it, or not 51/50 ing the epa as they try to punish BP for the type of dispersant they are using (the priorities of some people is so backwards).

But at the end of the day, it was an accident, learn from it, and move on.

Whatfur
05-27-2010, 09:32 PM
I appreciate your high road.

There have been 17 countries that have offered to help, like Bobby J, most have not heard back from this administration. I understand there have been numerous other experts and general volunteers that also have been left waiting with hat in hand. Bush's critics started on day one. We are at day 31. One of the links I provided was Obama himself suggesting Bush was about as interested in Katrina as a fly-by merited. I am with you that when it concerns the accident and the plugging of the "damn hole"... is beyond his control...beyond governments expertise. However, I do think his protection of the coasts and responding to the the clean-up in general has been weak verging on incompetent... if not negligence. Did you see his press conference today? Go watch it. Just a bumbler. Bottom line he is proving that those who pointed to his lack of executive experience knew about which they spoke. The same can be said about those who questioned his pattern of choices. Not to sound like someone else here ...Boxer? San Francisco? "Really"? Vacation? Really?

It does pain me a bit to link to that sleezeball Carville and now ;o) dickhead Mathews (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/chris-matthews-the-gulf-of-mexico-is-more-important-than-a-presidency/)but I am not a turn the other cheek kind of guy. Sorry. I also have a long memory so I admit some of this is for the assholes (you know who your are) who jumped all over Bush about Katrina and continue to.

handle
05-28-2010, 03:39 PM
Hugs buddy. Talk to you next year.

Why? Are you Halliburton creeps planning another epic blunder with zero contingencies in place? I always operate with backups for my backups and there are no lives hanging in the balance in my line of work. What's your excuse?

I know, it's just the cost of doing business on the cheap, while logging world record profits, right?

Thank god Oilyfur is here to divert accountability by smearing the President with his spillage.
Nice try,but no sale.... ya might want to give it a rest.

handle
05-28-2010, 03:54 PM
I appreciate your high road.

There have been 17 countries that have offered to help, like Bobby J, most have not heard back from this administration. I understand there have been numerous other experts and general volunteers that also have been left waiting with hat in hand. Bush's critics started on day one. We are at day 31. One of the links I provided was Obama himself suggesting Bush was about as interested in Katrina as a fly-by merited. I am with you that when it concerns the accident and the plugging of the "damn hole"... is beyond his control...beyond governments expertise. However, I do think his protection of the coasts and responding to the the clean-up in general has been weak verging on incompetent... if not negligence. Did you see his press conference today? Go watch it. Just a bumbler. Bottom line he is proving that those who pointed to his lack of executive experience knew about which they spoke. The same can be said about those who questioned his pattern of choices. Not to sound like someone else here ...Boxer? San Francisco? "Really"? Vacation? Really?

It does pain me a bit to link to that sleezeball Carville and now ;o) dickhead Mathews (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/chris-matthews-the-gulf-of-mexico-is-more-important-than-a-presidency/)but I am not a turn the other cheek kind of guy. Sorry. I also have a long memory so I admit some of this is for the assholes (you know who your are) who jumped all over Bush about Katrina and continue to.

The guy appointed a horse breeder to head FEMA.
This has nothing to do with Katrina, the Gov. was responsible for the levy system.
So you must be promoting massive government oversight of, and involvement in, your industry, right? How 'bout we the taxpayers just go out and get your oil for you? Now who's the socialist?
Your credibility is Furshit.

JonIrenicus
05-28-2010, 05:54 PM
The guy appointed a horse breeder to head FEMA.
This has nothing to do with Katrina, the Gov. was responsible for the levy system.
So you must be promoting massive government oversight of, and involvement in, your industry, right? How 'bout we the taxpayers just go out and get your oil for you? Now who's the socialist?
Your credibility is Furshit.



Just admit that deep down, what you seem to want to expect from presidents is summed up in this photo.

http://www.doobybrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/anderson-cooper-saves-haitian-boy.jpg


(dramatization)

Anderson: where are the suffering people !!!! Oh look a kid who's in danger GET THE CAMERA !!!!!!!!


(Anderson to the rescue - because he cares so much)

Lyle
05-29-2010, 05:52 PM
I completely with agree with you John, but at least on a political level the bar can't be set 9 ft high for Bush and 3 ft high for Obama (AceofSpades argument). What's fair play is fair play in politics.

You're right about the disaster though, not much the Obama government can do now. BP doesn't even know what to do.

bjkeefe
05-29-2010, 08:15 PM
Oil industry insider's take on the response to the Gulf oil spill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx8kMXufu3w

WARNING: There is a deliberate, tongue-in-cheek use of oil field vernacular that is NSFW.

Thanks for the link, cragger. Very interesting.

(Reposted (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2010/05/something-to-think-about.html), if you care.)

bjkeefe
05-29-2010, 08:18 PM
I'm sorry did I sound like Swartz?

Good that you apologized, but no. You never sound nearly as smart as he does.

Meantime, contemplate (if that's not also beyond your skill set) the words of Charles Blow (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2010/05/line-of-day-2010-05-29.html).

Think you can click that link without having your mind filled with the painfully obvious juvenile jokes you could make about his name?

Not to worry. I'm sure you can't, either.

Whatfur
05-29-2010, 10:47 PM
Good that you apologized, but no. You never sound nearly as smart as he does.

Meantime, contemplate (if that's not also beyond your skill set) [-05-29.html"]the words of Charles BlowThink you can click that link without having your mind filled with the painfully obvious juvenile jokes you could make about his name?

Not to worry. I'm sure you can't, either.

I also should apologize to the whole forum as it seems my return to offering more than links has prompted your sliding back out from the septic sludge.

I know Mr. Blow. Quite the bigot. He is almost as big a dickhead as you are... and also just like you... I have already read my fill of him and won't read any more unless I am looking for comic relief. Here, you trying to push him on anyone, has satisfied that. Nice to see you have expanded out of Wonkette, and Balloon Spit though. Toodleloo.

bjkeefe
05-30-2010, 12:06 AM
I also should apologize to the whole forum ...

"Better late than never," and so forth.

... as it seems my return to offering more than links ...

You've been doing more than that? Sorry, I hadn't noticed. As far as I can tell, you've shown one brief glimmer of "intelligence," and by that I mean as far as wingnuts go, you've shown a preemptive bit of survival instinct, by which I mean: you've stopped adding commentary to the wingnut links you do provide.

Big. Fucking. Whoop.

But, "congratulations," if you need them.

I assess this as your realization that whatever you say on top of these sad examples (of what the deranged are "thinking") only provides additional opportunities for sane people to mine for lulz.

BUT!

If you think your newly terse offerings have somehow ("how" is left as an exercise for the student) made you look "better" ... uh ... (*collapses with uncontrollable laughter*) .. oooo-kay. If you say so.

... has prompted your sliding back out from the septic sludge.

Word power!

(Old) man: these attempts to use "vivid" images are so, so sad.

I know Mr. Blow. Quite the bigot.

Yep. You're a wingnut, and a teabagger, so therefore an angry aging white boy, so therefore, a black man who has an opinion that does not match with yours must be called a "bigot." I mean, it's not as though we haven't all long since figured out where you're coming from, shit-on-your-shoes-according-to-your-"dad"-trailer-park-wanker, but thanks for making it comically obvious.

[ellipses orig] He is almost as big a dickhead as you are... and also just like you...

Let the racist babbling begin! But wait, isn't he also GHEY????

I have already read my fill of him ...

Welp. One link clicked puts you infinitely far ahead of your brethren. So, I suppose I'll have to give you that.

... and won't read any more ...

You should have warned me to sit down before making that pronouncement.

Whatfur
05-30-2010, 06:33 PM
On to plan "C". :(

Lyle
05-30-2010, 10:29 PM
Louisiana's coast is fucked. Jesus. Oh well, it ain't New York, Los Angeles, or Chicago so who gives a fuck.

Next time Obama steps foot in Louisiana he's going to face the music, I think. The whole Potemkin village clean up effort on Grand Isle won't ever be forgotten down there.

Whatfur
06-02-2010, 07:19 PM
John Stewart takes a few swipes. (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-1-2010/the-spilling-fields)

All ok, but go to 4:00.

handle
06-03-2010, 03:28 PM
Holy Crap! You are a poster boy for right wing hypocrisy.
Does anyone here honestly believe if this hadn't happened that Slimeyfur would be ranting about getting the liberal government / media conspiracy to stop hampering Haliburton's efforts to expand oil exploration and harvesting? Especially off-shore? Anyone?
Why do you insist on discrediting yourself with such blatant, spineless shape-shifting?
You have proven that you have zero capacity for shame.

handle
06-04-2010, 03:20 PM
Holy Crap! You are a poster boy for right wing hypocrisy.
Does anyone here honestly believe if this hadn't happened that Slimeyfur would be ranting about getting the liberal government / media conspiracy to stop hampering Haliburton's efforts to expand oil exploration and harvesting? Especially off-shore? Anyone?
Why do you insist on discrediting yourself with such blatant, spineless shape-shifting?
You have proven that you have zero capacity for shame.

Come on, someone must be willing to defend oilyfur... no?
Not even jonironic with his presumptuous but erroneous "This is what you liberals really think but are afraid to say it" bullshit?

Whatfur
06-04-2010, 06:03 PM
From day one. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzllR24e-FY)

bjkeefe
06-04-2010, 06:55 PM
http://content.cartoonbox.slate.com/?feature=4990bb561904351a87f6c1ce0a28014b

Cartoon by Jim Morin, Miami Herald (http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/03/1662348/6410.html).

(h/t: The Comics Curmudgeon (http://wonkette.com/415807/the-real-obama-revealed))

handle
06-04-2010, 08:09 PM
Thanks for the confirmation of my hypothesis:
No one doubts that you have done a 180 on this, and any other topic, if it suits your immediate agenda, i.e. trash the President, or any non-super-right-partisan.
You are just angry because your guy really was stupid and incompetent. He was an alcoholic party boy who found god in his forties, and Daddied himself into the role of POTUS, but never caught up with his peers.
Trashing him made sense, the more you trash this guy, the more you look senseless.

Added: way to come to your own rescue, by the way... don't think it counts however.. no one is willing to stick their neck out for you, sorry.

Whatfur
06-07-2010, 10:55 PM
I really hate when they make these comparisons. (http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Media/poll-bp-oil-spill-rated-worse-katrina-criminal-charges/story?id=10846473)

handle
06-08-2010, 03:54 PM
I really hate when they make these comparisons. (http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Media/poll-bp-oil-spill-rated-worse-katrina-criminal-charges/story?id=10846473)

I wonder what the poll numbers would be if this question were posed:

What would you think of an oil industry insider (i.e. spinfur from haliburton) who is trying to divert responsibility for the disaster by pointing fingers at the government?
Rate 1 - 5 with 1 being indifference and a 5 indicating lowest form of slimy bottom feeder.

listener
06-09-2010, 01:06 AM
Yes, there is a certain irony there.

Whatfur
06-09-2010, 08:23 AM
We'll get back to you... (http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/miles-of-oil-containment-boom-sit-in-warehouse-waiting-for-bp-or-u-s-to-use/?singlepage=true)

listener
06-10-2010, 04:38 AM
We'll get back to you... (http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/miles-of-oil-containment-boom-sit-in-warehouse-waiting-for-bp-or-u-s-to-use/?singlepage=true)

Interesting article. It raises some interesting questions about the self-protectiveness of organizations, whether they be corporate or governmental. From the reporting I have seen (http://www.google.com/search?q=effectiveness+of+oil+booms&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.yahoo:en-US:official&client=firefox), however, Sullivan's assessment of the efficacy of oil booms seems overly optimistic.

listener
06-10-2010, 04:59 AM
Here's some reporting (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/37604654#37604654) about the extent to which BP has been allowed to be self-regulating with regard to safety, and the consequent apathy toward safety which that lack of oversight engendered. (It's about 13 min. long, but the most relevant material is near the beginning.)

listener
06-11-2010, 03:23 AM
It's really hard to be funny about a situation as monumentally destructive and disastrous as this, but the Upright Citizens Brigade do a pretty good job of it with this video about another BP spill. (http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978293345)

Whatfur
06-11-2010, 08:13 AM
It's really hard to be funny about a situation as monumentally destructive and disastrous as this, but the Upright Citizens Brigade do a pretty good job of it with this video about another BP spill. (http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978293345)

Too funny.

Whatfur
06-11-2010, 08:26 AM
A little from the best political cartoonist of our day. (http://www.investors.com/EditorialCartoons/Cartoon.aspx?id=536818)

cragger
06-11-2010, 07:56 PM
From other reporting on the efficacy of the booms in operation in the Gulf:

... US lawmakers and local officials are becoming increasingly concerned that the booms aren’t working as intended along the US Gulf Coast.

There is much more shoreline to protect than lengths of boom to protect it, they say. Rough weather has washed oil over the barriers, and inexperienced operators haven’t laid them correctly.

"The boom is not working ... it is a joke,” says Billy Nungesser, president of Plaquemines Parish, Louisiana, at a Thursday Senate hearing. “It washes up on the shore with the oil, and then we have oil in the marsh, and we have an oily boom. So we have two problems.”

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100611/ts_csm/307514

listener
06-15-2010, 12:28 AM
More on BP's Emergency Response Plan for the Gulf of Mexico that includes protecting walruses (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/37697749#37697749), I kid you not, walruses in the Gulf of Mexico. Clip includes video interview with BP C.O.O. Doug Suttles explaining how the walruses made it into the Gulf plan, and why deep water drilling technology has advanced significantly over the last 40 years while cleanup technology remains the same as it was 40 years ago.

listener
06-16-2010, 02:48 AM
Yes, I know by this point I am risking appearing to be a flak for Rachel Maddow, but I invite anyone to tell me who is doing better TV reporting on events in the Gulf of Mexico. From last night's program:

Rachel Maddow reviews the answers given by oil industry executives on Capitol Hill today and points out that the reason government regulation is necessary is that as Americans we care about our beaches, oceans and ways of life whereas corporations care about their bottom line.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/37720645#37720645

Bonus: President of the US Chamber of Commerce and major party leader of the House of Representatives in US Congress say that US taxpayers should help pay for costs of oil disaster (oh wait, no, they never said that!). This one's only 2 minutes long:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/37720940#37720940

Extra credit: a spoonful of gallows humor helps the medicine go down. (only 1 1/2 minutes!)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/37720965#37720965

Whatfur
06-16-2010, 06:44 AM
Yes, I know by this point I am risking appearing to be a flak for Rachel Maddow, but I invite anyone to tell me who is doing better TV reporting on events in the Gulf of Mexico. From last night's program:

Rachel Maddow reviews the answers given by oil industry executives on Capitol Hill today and points out that the reason government regulation is necessary is that as Americans we care about our beaches, oceans and ways of life whereas corporations care about their bottom line.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/37720645#37720645

Bonus: President of the US Chamber of Commerce and major party leader of the House of Representatives in US Congress say that US taxpayers should help pay for costs of oil disaster (oh wait, no, they never said that!). This one's only 2 minutes long:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/37720940#37720940

Extra credit: a spoonful of gallows humor helps the medicine go down. (only 1 1/2 minutes!)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/37720965#37720965

And if someone else here listed four links of FOX video...

...drop your remote and step away from the echo chamber.

Whatfur
06-16-2010, 07:20 AM
Yeah thats the ticket...just like 9/11. (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/obama_envy_wnEUzeEjokge0aLypdq1iL)

bjkeefe
06-16-2010, 01:00 PM
And if someone else here listed four links of FOX video...

...drop your remote and step away from the echo chamber.

First, it occurs to me that instantly labeling something "the echo chamber" is pretty well an echo coming from your own chamber.

Second, if you'd like listener to stop watching MSNBC, advising him to drop the remote seems counterproductive.

Third, if someone could make as compelling a case as listener could to watch a set of related clips from Fox, I doubt it would provoke the kneejerk tribalism from any lefty that you displayed here.

I welcome someone pointing me to links on Fox News that are as solid as what Maddow offers. Sure, it's reporting with a slant, but it is solid reporting. So far as I can tell, such things do not exist on Fox News. If that station does anything besides bash Obama, Pelosi, Reid, "the far left," and show tons of jiggle shots while tsk-tsking, it's never been brought to my attention. About the only thing I can think of is an occasional moment when Shep Smith chokes on the koolaid, and this is not good reporting, it's just noteworthy because it's so unusual for that outfit.

Whatfur
06-16-2010, 02:04 PM
to quote osmium:

"/makes jack-off motion at the computer"

handle
06-16-2010, 04:15 PM
Yeah thats the ticket...just like 9/11. (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/obama_envy_wnEUzeEjokge0aLypdq1iL)

For once I must agree with the partisanboy, the 9/11- haliburton/BP fuckup comparison is laughable... just like spillfur's ridiculous comparison of the fruit of his industry's negligence to Katrina.

Maybe you shouldn't have embraced this line of complete horseshit in the first place?
Oh yeah, I forgot, it's all you got.

handle
06-16-2010, 04:55 PM
to quote osmium:

"/makes jack-off motion at the computer"

I think we are already painfully aware of how you spend most of your time,
especially when replaying clips of "FOX and Friends", and perusing SP's facebook page.

bjkeefe
06-16-2010, 05:05 PM
to quote osmium:

"/makes jack-off motion at the computer"

Thanks for acknowledging you had no worthwhile rebuttal, juvenile though your method was.

cragger
06-17-2010, 07:00 PM
Rep. Joe Barton apologizes to BP CEO Hayward for that big bad Obama picking on them, for fishermen using the same waters they want to drill in, for wildlife wasting oil by covering themselves with it, for the Gulf of Mexico having all that stupid water in their way in the first place.

I'm pretty jaded about shameless political corruption by now, and it has struck me that the Dems and Reps often resemble two rather old and nasty hookers trying to elbow each other out of the way to be the first to peddle themselves to the next corporate limo that pulls up to the curb with a hand waving some cash in the window. But still. Ol' Joe sure wins the battle this time. Goes to show that no matter how fat, ugly, greasy, and smelly the customer, or what they want in return for their cash, Joe is happy to cozy up and coo "Oh baby, you're such a stud".

Its a great life if you don't weaken.

TwinSwords
06-17-2010, 07:18 PM
Rep. Joe Barton apologizes to BP CEO Hayward

First of all, I appreciate your post and your highlighting of Barton's apology. But I think you may be mistaken to suggest that Barton is merely a whore, and isn't expressing his sincere libertarian viewpoint that corporations should be free to do whatever the hell they want without having to answer to a tyrannical authority like the government. I think Joe's expressing the heartfelt conviction of republicans, conservatives, and libertarians, that corporations are victims and government is tyrannical. I'm sure Joe would be happy to take the same position for free. Sure, there are some whores in the Republican Party, but many of them are expressing their sincere beliefs.

Meanwhile, Joe Biden responds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABToOl-xbHE&playnext_from=TL&videos=ik0xM7gPzqQ).

Whatfur
06-17-2010, 07:44 PM
First of all, I appreciate your post and your highlighting of Barton's apology. But I think you may be mistaken to suggest that Barton is merely a whore, and isn't expressing his sincere libertarian viewpoint that corporations should be free to do whatever the hell they want without having to answer to a tyrannical authority like the government. I think Joe's expressing the heartfelt conviction of republicans, conservatives, and libertarians, that corporations are victims and government is tyrannical. I'm sure Joe would be happy to take the same position for free. Sure, there are some whores in the Republican Party, but many of them are expressing their sincere beliefs.

Meanwhile, Joe Biden responds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABToOl-xbHE&playnext_from=TL&videos=ik0xM7gPzqQ).


You left out the tea partiers. Creep.

cragger
06-17-2010, 10:48 PM
I suppose it is remotely possible that Barton is sincere. Many things are possible after all. You might get dealt three royal flushes in a row by chance.

I haven't really had enough interest in Joe before his sucking up to oil dollars to look into his positions overall. Does he support gay marriage out of opposition to a tyrannical government infringement of individual rights? Oppose the death penalty since the government shouldn't have such powers? Does he share Ron Paul's oppositon to bloated military budgets, US troops spread across the globe and US government involvement in world affairs? Oppose drug laws, censorship, the government saying on just which day of one's life one is allowed to consume alcohol or engage in sex, and so on?

The thing is, I don't think there is anything remotely sincere in politicians expressing those "conservative Republican beliefs". I think libertarianism is a convenient rationalization when they like the idea that the wealty and powerful should be able to do whatever they like in order to become more so. For some other issue it's to hell with libertarianism, and a new rationalization is given. States rights. Original Intent. Moral imperatives. Whatever excuse fits for that issue, that day.

I am reminded of events during the Clinton days, when a couple referenda passed in California. The voters there passed a repeal of California's affirmitive action laws as I recall. Someone from the administration immediately came out with a statement that any institution or program getting federal dollars would have to comply with federal affirmative action guidelines, or words to that effect. A batch of "conservative Republican" senators immediately ran in front of the nearest TV cameras to scream their outrage. This was a clear violation of the Sacred Principle of states rights! It was counter to the most fundamental principle of democracy - the Will of the People expressed in a free election. An excreble example of the arrogance of the Washington elite.

Did they mean any of that, or just that they didn't like affirmative action? Thing is, the Californians passed another referendum in that same election, legalizing the medical use of marijuana. These "conservative Republican" senators were back in that position in front of the cameras so beloved by the political animal just a couple days later. By all the gods, they were going to see that the federal government jumped on anybody using marijuana in California, medical or not, jumped on them with both feet in heavy boots. Further, they were going to work to get medical licenses revoked for any doctors who prescribed it. Not a word about the Sacred Principle of states rights. Nor a peep about the Will of the People or the fundamental principle of democracy. Just an expression of the arrogance of the Washington power elite.

But then, like I said, I've gotten a bit jaded about the corruption and dishonesty of politicans. Intellectual dishonesty as well as the more mundane, services for cash kind. Depending on his other positions, Barton could conceivably be sincere. The numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 could be tomorrows winning lottery numbers. Your money, bet it as you will.

Whatfur
06-17-2010, 10:53 PM
Joe Biden is a big fucking deal.

bjkeefe
06-18-2010, 02:49 AM
You left out the tea partiers. Creep.

Noted for the record.

listener
06-18-2010, 02:52 AM
You left out the tea partiers. Creep.

Creep? Oh right, the Committee to Re-Elect the President. Yeah, them too.

bjkeefe
06-18-2010, 02:55 AM
First of all, I appreciate your post and your highlighting of Barton's apology. But I think you may be mistaken to suggest that Barton is merely a whore, and isn't expressing his sincere libertarian viewpoint that corporations should be free to do whatever the hell they want without having to answer to a tyrannical authority like the government. I think Joe's expressing the heartfelt conviction of republicans, conservatives, and libertarians, that corporations are victims and government is tyrannical. I'm sure Joe would be happy to take the same position for free. Sure, there are some whores in the Republican Party, but many of them are expressing their sincere beliefs.

Meanwhile, Joe Biden responds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABToOl-xbHE&playnext_from=TL&videos=ik0xM7gPzqQ).

Nah. Joe Barton is five pounds of stupid (http://wonkette.com/408067/joe-stumper-barton-has-a-new-thought-about-the-future-see) in a four pound bag. He's just bright enough to remember who owns him (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2009/04/from-annals-of-republican-dumbassery.html). To the extent that he babbles glibertarianese, it's just him chirping what his paymasters taught him by rote.

Whatfur
06-18-2010, 08:17 AM
Obama is in over his head. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703627704575298851812383216.html?m od=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories)

Whatfur
06-22-2010, 06:18 AM
Florida Senator questions Obama's grasp of the situation. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyyL50dFkMc)

Whatfur
06-22-2010, 06:23 AM
Florida Senator questions Obama's grasp of the situation. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyyL50dFkMc)

Looks like he should of been getting a grip on things far sooner... (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/06/21/kevin-mccullough-obama-bp-spill-february-salazar-resign-change/)

listener
06-23-2010, 02:02 AM
Verbatim reading of the BP press release, "Flying Higher," by BP reporter Tom Seslar:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/37863263#37863263

free association bonus from the twisted mind of listener:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKITpVovTAE

(dig the amazing piano solo at 1:15)

bjkeefe
06-23-2010, 06:47 PM
... Whatfur's favorite good corporate citizen (http://reason.com/blog/2010/06/23/bps-brave-fight-against-camera)!

(via (http://wonkette.com/416246/mike-huckabees-gay-vocabulary-is-enormous))

Whatfur
06-23-2010, 06:49 PM
I understand the Koran specifies different punishments for catchers vs. pitchers. Here I thought baseball was invented in the U.S. (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=165783&highlight=perez#post165783)

TwinSwords
06-23-2010, 07:01 PM
Libertarians: The only people who can make Republicans seem relatively moderate and sane.

Rep. Paul Casts Sole ‘No’ Vote on Oil Spill Subpoena Power

By Tennille Tracy and Siobhan Hughes

When the House agreed to give subpoena powers to President Barack Obama’s newly formed oil-spill commission, 420 members voted for the plan and only one voted against it: Texas Republican Ron Paul.

A spokeswoman for Paul declined to elaborate on the congressman’s vote.

Paul’s son, Rand Paul, a Republican running for the open U.S. Senate seat in Kentucky, came under fire last month for supporting BP. In an interview on ABC’s “Good Morning America,” he said Obama was “un-American” for criticizing the oil company, and said attacks on BP were part of the “blame game,” where tragedy is “always someone else’s fault.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/06/23/rep-paul-casts-sole-no-vote-on-oil-spill-subpoena-power/

Snark aside, I guess at the end of the day these market fundamentalists are still less scary than the Christian right, or the police state authoritarians, the other two major factions in the Republican party. Of course, Republicans don't have to just pick one faction or the other; the exciting thing is that a great many of the tea bagging base belong to two or three of these factions, despite whatever philosophical contradictions might make such a thing seem impossible. Call them cafeteria conservatives, picking and choosing the bits and pieces that suit them.

bjkeefe
06-23-2010, 07:04 PM
I understand the Koran specifies different punishments for catchers vs. pitchers. Here I thought baseball was invented in the U.S. (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=165783&highlight=perez#post165783)

Shocking! 'furry calls me gay again. (But not directly, because he's a coward, in addition to being a homophobe.)

One in an ongoing series, noted for the record.

listener
06-23-2010, 09:00 PM
Call them cafeteria conservatives, picking and choosing the bits and pieces that suit them.

As a wannabe Limousine Liberal, I endorse your new epithet.

bjkeefe
06-23-2010, 11:01 PM
As a wannabe Limousine Liberal, I endorse your new epithet.

I don't know whether it was your comment or that Google thinks we of the Bh.tv forum have massive influence, but check out the ad that appeared right afterward.

bjkeefe
06-23-2010, 11:15 PM
... Whatfur's favorite good corporate citizen (http://reason.com/blog/2010/06/23/bps-brave-fight-against-camera)!

(via (http://wonkette.com/416246/mike-huckabees-gay-vocabulary-is-enormous))

More transparamency (http://www.straight.com/article-330904/vancouver/vancouver-photographer-describes-horror-gulf-mexico-oil-spill) (via (http://twitter.com/pourmecoffee/status/16896804262)), from 'fur's favorite company (besides Halliburton, of course!):

[Vancouver photographer Kris] Krug talked at length about BP’s efforts to minimize media coverage of the spill and the troubles his team had accessing affected areas. He described several “control mechanisms” that BP is allegedly using to stifle the flow of information.

For example, Krug said that he found that virtually every sea plane company in the Gulf has had every bookable hour bought up by BP.

Wouldn't want the Democrat-Media Complex taking overhead pictures of the spill, now would we? Let 'em shoot oil-covered ducks, one at a time, the way Mathew Brady would have done!

popcorn_karate
06-25-2010, 05:35 PM
more good news
http://www.examiner.com/x-5738-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2010m6d25-Video--Some-concerned-over-raining-oil-from-use-of-chemical-dispersants-on-Gulf-oil-spill

TwinSwords
06-25-2010, 05:38 PM
more good news
http://www.examiner.com/x-5738-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2010m6d25-Video--Some-concerned-over-raining-oil-from-use-of-chemical-dispersants-on-Gulf-oil-spill

You really don't want to be linking to that site. It's one of the most deranged conspiracy sites of the far right anywhere on the internet. It makes Alex Jones seem responsible. I've noted, the many times I've followed links to it from the libertarian/teabagger sites, that they make some effort to present themselves as a normal news site. But week after week after week, I find the craziest stuff there.

Whatfur
06-25-2010, 06:40 PM
You really don't want to be linking to that site. It's one of the most deranged conspiracy sites of the far right anywhere on the internet. It makes Alex Jones seem responsible. I've noted, the many times I've followed links to it from the libertarian/teabagger sites, that they make some effort to present themselves as a normal news site. But week after week after week, I find the craziest stuff there.

Of course like Mickey Rourke in "Barfly" when he is told by the bartender that Fae Dunaway is crazy and immediately slides down the bar with a drink for her...I had to go check out this link. They certainly seem to have a whole bunch of bases covered and all in all it seems pretty tame.

Bottom line, I would not let Twinswords be the judge of a demolition derby and I have actually witnessed Popcorn think for himself.

handle
06-25-2010, 08:16 PM
Bottom line, I would not let Twinswords be the judge of a demolition derby and I have actually witnessed Popcorn think for himself.

Translation from furrish:
Twin doesn't agree with me, and I agreed with something Karate said once.

Does anyone wonder Whutt Furr does with his time? Is he collecting an Oil industry paycheck while scouring the web for wingnut propaganda links to to post on bloggingheads all day, while the gulf turns into a tar pit? Why isn't he spending his time productively? Is this the path the"moral compass" he claims to possess keeps him on?

He challenged me to a moral compass-off... let's start with the above (tally one for me), and work our way toward revealing his complete lack of compassion for anything and anyone but himself.

I won't have a lot of time to dedicate to this, however, as I have a thing call a "work ethic", a symptom of moral consciousness, so I guess that makes the score: me 2, furryass 0, and I'm just getting started.

Oh what the hell, let's throw in the fact that I have never seen him even hint that he might be wrong about anything, or that he may have been bested by another poster, and that makes it 3-zip.

Come to think of it, I bet he gets payed at least 4 or 5 times the amount of the people who actually do the work in his field, which means he is squandering the the man-hours of 5 or six full time workers! 4-0!

And not only does he not care, he is actively pushing to deny them the right to organize and lobby for their right to get paid even half of what a screw-off like him gets*! 5-0!

This is toooo easy...

*See the "Unions Bankrupting America?" thread started by greedyfur himself.

handle
06-25-2010, 08:20 PM
Correction: I think I get two points for that last one.

In your face, rabid promoter of socio-economic polarization!
(you guessed it, that's another one.)

seven - goose egg

Whatfur
06-25-2010, 09:42 PM
Bungling the Gulf Spill Response (http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/06/bungling_the_gulf_spill_respon.html).

handle
06-26-2010, 05:12 PM
Bungling the Gulf Spill Response (http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/06/bungling_the_gulf_spill_respon.html).

Brilliant! All they had to do was "Burn off or collect the oil before it has a chance to disperse over a wide area." should be no problem when it's only 70,000 barrels a day!
If it's so obvious, then WHY DIDN'T HALLIBURTON JUST DO IT? You don't really work for them do you? You just made that one up 'cause you are a big bullshitter (8-0).
Does anyone here want to make the argument that wankfur would be even broaching this subject if Bush / Cheney were in charge of this, aside from defending them? Anyone? Anyone at all?
You are so completely transparent, you should be ashamed, but you aren't, are you? 9-0!
You still want to "match my moral compass with yours anytime."? You ain't doin' so hot.

bjkeefe
06-26-2010, 05:18 PM
[...]

You are so completely transparent, you should be ashamed, but you aren't, are you? 9-0!
You still want to "match my moral compass with yours anytime."? You ain't doin' so hot.

10-0 (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=167082#post167082)? (See also (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Abloggingheads.tv&q=perez+OR+queef).)

Whatfur
06-26-2010, 09:00 PM
10-0 (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=167082#post167082)? (See also (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Abloggingheads.tv&q=perez+OR+queef).)

OMG, the furtroll and the stalker...together at last (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGHRF-J0hXc).

bjkeefe
06-26-2010, 10:39 PM
OMG, the furtroll and the stalker...together at last (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGHRF-J0hXc).

Bzzzzt! Excessive whining.

The score is now 11-0 in favor of handle.

TwinSwords
06-27-2010, 01:18 PM
You really don't want to be linking to that site. It's one of the most deranged conspiracy sites of the far right anywhere on the internet. It makes Alex Jones seem responsible. I've noted, the many times I've followed links to it from the libertarian/teabagger sites, that they make some effort to present themselves as a normal news site. But week after week after week, I find the craziest stuff there.

Rachel Maddow, debunking the "it's raining oil" viral video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2Rqem3xlV0). (And she's just one of many to do so.)

This isn't the first time, and won't be the last, that the Examiner web site is used to promote hysterical nonsense circulating among the teabaggers.

Whatfur
06-27-2010, 01:35 PM
Rachel Maddow, debunking the "it's raining oil" viral video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2Rqem3xlV0). (And she's just one of many to do so.)

This isn't the first time, and won't be the last, that the Examiner web site is used to promote hysterical nonsense circulating among the teabaggers.

The majority of the article in the Examiner was casting doubt over the validity of the "raining oil" videos. I guess it is YOU circulating hysterical nonsense. You are a propagandist of the first order.

TwinSwords
06-27-2010, 02:07 PM
The majority of the article in the Examiner was casting doubt over the validity of the "raining oil" videos. You are a propagandist of the first order.
Hey, I'm just telling you what I've experienced. For laughs, I like to check in on the lunatic fringe of the conservative movement from time to time. And a lot of their nutty theories end up with links pointing to the Examiner web site.

The "it's raining oil" video was popping up on Tea Party web sites days before P_K posted the link, so it's not surprising that the Examiner eventually picked it up. My only question is what took them so long? Unfortunately, most of the conservative movement lives in a hermetically sealed news bubble, and will never see the debunking. That it is raining oil in the Gulf is now a new conservative "fact," and no mainstream media source will ever be able to dissuade the wingnuts from believing it.

Hey, since it's factual-enough-for conservatives, maybe you could go start the article about it at Conservapedia (http://conservapedia.com/Main_Page)!

Whatfur
06-27-2010, 02:17 PM
Hey, I'm just telling you what I'v experienced. ....!

No, here you were portraying the article as "promoting" the validity of the video when it did the opposite.

AemJeff
06-27-2010, 02:33 PM
No, here you were portraying the article as "promoting" the validity of the video when it did the opposite.

You're wrong, as anybody who actually read the article would know. The lede was "oil rain" and it only presented a pro-forma "some are skeptical of..." graf that nods to the existence of other points of view, before going on to cite an marginally related study to raise doubt about the skeptics.

Whatfur
06-27-2010, 03:02 PM
You're wrong, as anybody who actually read the article would know. The lede was "oil rain" and it only presented a pro-forma "some are skeptical of..." graf that nods to the existence of other points of view, before going on to cite an marginally related study to raise doubt about the skeptics.

You're wrong. As someone who did read the article the lede was "some concerned over" and then it went on to list multiple reasons to be skeptical including the link to the study which also points to the fact that this spill is mainly crude and would unlikely be part of any evaporation. You or I may have seen the original video and thought "BS", but the Examiner was not the only one that had a story before conclusive opinion was offered. If it were, Rachel Maddow would not have felt the need to provide it 24 hours later.

handle
06-27-2010, 03:07 PM
Bzzzzt! Excessive whining.

The score is now 11-0 in favor of handle.

Wasn't that long ago he called me your dicksucker! (no score, due to my inability to avoid the use of profanity while addressing his behavior). *BUT* this was after his declaration of "the last response" I would ever get from him. I think that's another one for me. Starting to think the concept of right and wrong is completely foreign to him. Is this a shock to anyone? anyone at all?

C'mon Furballs! Google "morality", and make something up! I think we are all aware of your prowess in the field of total fabrication.

handle
06-27-2010, 03:38 PM
BTW the "furtroll" thing is very accurate, and kind of a breakthrough for you.
I wondered when you were going to realize that I am the trolls troll. I am your punishment for trying to stir things up just for attention. I am here to make you painfully aware that sometimes when you go trolling, you snag a tire. In other words, you run the risk of attracting the wrong kind of attention. The kind that will make you see yourself as others see you, by turning your own sleezy, deceitful tactics against you.

My acute self awareness.... priceless.
Not unilaterally declaring victory like you always do... one more for me.

WHUTS SAT? THIRTEEN -ZIP? Pooor suckfur.

Added: I wonder why he don't wanna play with me no more.

bjkeefe
06-27-2010, 04:12 PM
Added: I wonder why he don't wanna play with me no more.

It is typical for him to run away when the truth starts overwhelming even his capacity for denial and subject-changing.

Another possible explanation: my repeated quoting of the only insult he knows is starting to embarrass even him, and now he's got nothing left to throw at you.

handle
06-27-2010, 04:20 PM
It is typical for him to run away when the truth starts overwhelming even his capacity for denial and subject-changing.

Another possible explanation: my repeated quoting of the only insult he knows is starting to embarrass even him, and now he's got nothing left to throw at you.

Maybe we should give him at least a little time out, while he tries to wrap his head around the whole moral compass thing.

How 'bout if we don't score the Keefe's points surrounding truth, denial and subject changing? That's a hat trick giveaway!

Whoops!... charity! I think I will take that one....

handle
06-29-2010, 04:27 PM
Maybe we should give him at least a little time out, while he tries to wrap his head around the whole moral compass thing.

How 'bout if we don't score the Keefe's points surrounding truth, denial and subject changing? That's a hat trick giveaway!

Whoops!... charity! I think I will take that one....


Looks like the "match" offer came out of stinkfur's ass, like most of his posts. I gave him two days, and the only thing he's done is post on any thread but this one, in a futile attempt to bury his humiliation.
I guess even the whole scrappy libertarian bravado he tries to project is completely without substance.
I'd rub it in, but I'm afraid he will challenge me to a UFC cage match, or imply that I'm homosexual, or a female, exposing his deep insecurities regarding his lack of a secure gender identity. Because when he resorts to that crap, it's just flat out repulsive.

Whatfur
06-29-2010, 04:42 PM
No Gaity in Miss. (http://www.taylor.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1711&Itemid=89)

handle
06-29-2010, 05:28 PM
No Gaity in Miss. (http://www.taylor.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1711&Itemid=89)

Takes a real brainiac to post links. (http://www.hollywoodbackstage.com/world/bp-oil-spill-air-land-sea-123.php4)
Does anyone think the furball really cares about this beyond the damage it could do to those he disagrees with? Anyone? HELLOOOOOO?

Whatfur
06-29-2010, 05:43 PM
Thar she blows!!! (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20009084-503544.html)

Whatfur
06-29-2010, 10:41 PM
Maybe we should accept some help. (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-accepts-international-apf-4104246595.html?x=0&.v=2)

handle
06-30-2010, 12:44 PM
Thar she blows!!! (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20009084-503544.html)

That's how ol' Red Adair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Adair) woulda done it. But only after the oil companies bungled their way through all other stupid ideas, trying to save their investments.
I figure smartypantsfur is a security guard at a warehouse somewhere, 'cause he ain't no oil man, and he obviously has a helluva lot of time on his hands.

handle
06-30-2010, 12:45 PM
Maybe we should accept some help. (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-accepts-international-apf-4104246595.html?x=0&.v=2)

And you thought it was a clusterfuck before? Remember you wer fur this!

popcorn_karate
06-30-2010, 07:27 PM
You're wrong. As someone who did read the article the lede was "some concerned over" and then it went on to list multiple reasons to be skeptical including the link to the study which also points to the fact that this spill is mainly crude and would unlikely be part of any evaporation. You or I may have seen the original video and thought "BS", but the Examiner was not the only one that had a story before conclusive opinion was offered. If it were, Rachel Maddow would not have felt the need to provide it 24 hours later.

this is in response to the whole comment thread, not you in particular whatfur.

I came across this in a couple places and couldn't find out much of any real reporting on it. I posted a link here in the expectation that someone would know more about it than myself.

and lo and behold, that is what happened. I don't troll the entire web looking for salacious material, but i don't completely discount any news stories based on the ideological stand of the outlet either. sure, maybe i was a bit of a rube on this one - all i can say is that it was spread far and wide in many places with no partisan leaning, and i could find no clear debunking of it when i did a cursory search for one, which was odd (and they were everywhere within 24 hours of my post - DOH!!). Also, contra Twin, the article was skeptical while keeping an open mind about the issue and made this extremely non-wingnutty point that i totally agree with

"The entire disaster has been described as one giant science project. The EPA may be correct in saying no evidence exists that chemical dispersants allow oil to evaporate. However, that evidence may be lacking simply because we have never used chemical dispersants at this rate on this large of a spill before. Scientific experiments often lead to surprising conclusions."

peace 2 y'all

handle
07-01-2010, 03:23 PM
The lefty equivalent of Wankfur's wingnut links (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19776)

A fair story that covers the facts about the comparison. (http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/01/katrina-and-the-oil-spill-useful-comparison.html)

Added: I tend to side with the facts, not the freaks.

Whatfur
07-01-2010, 03:59 PM
I thought I was the only one to use the shit on shoes analogy. (http://hotair.com/archives/2010/07/01/lemieux-to-obama-youre-getting-failure-all-over-our-shores/)

Starwatcher162536
07-02-2010, 02:25 AM
From Factcheck.org;


Q: Did Obama turn down foreign offers of assistance in cleaning up the Gulf oil spill? Did he refuse to waive Jones Act restrictions on foreign-flag vessels?

A: No to both questions. So far, offers from six foreign countries or entities have been accepted and only one offer has been rejected. Fifteen foreign-flag vessels are working on the cleanup, and none required a waiver.


Full story (http://www.factcheck.org/2010/06/oil-spill-foreign-help-and-the-jones-act/)

From Reuters;


* Nancy Kinner, director of the joint University of New Hampshire/NOAA Coastal Response Research Center: "Many of the technologies that we would typically use don't work well when you have got high wind and waves, and that is basically what is happening down there now. It is causing the oil to emulsify and make this kind of sticky chocolate-mousse type of material."


Full story. (http://mobile.reuters.com/mobile/m/FullArticle/CUSN/ndomesticNews_uUSTRE63T50E20100430)

Many stories mention that there is a steep monetary sacrifice needed to get much of the offered "assistance". I confess I don't see why this is particularly important as I assume the price will be eventually passed on to BP.

Whatfur
07-02-2010, 03:36 PM
From Factcheck.org;



Full story (http://www.factcheck.org/2010/06/oil-spill-foreign-help-and-the-jones-act/)

From Reuters;



Full story. (http://mobile.reuters.com/mobile/m/FullArticle/CUSN/ndomesticNews_uUSTRE63T50E20100430)

Many stories mention that there is a steep monetary sacrifice needed to get much of the offered "assistance". I confess I don't see why this is particularly important as I assume the price will be eventually passed on to BP.


As Factcheck is want to do, they asked the wrong question. Much has been said about the ignoring or non-acceptance of offers, rejection is quite another thing. Even the link to the data there still shows most offers not accepted but still "under consideration". It also spends most the time worrying about the Jones Act and most allusions to that have been "If that is their excuse, remove the excuse". So all in all a bit disingenuous.

handle
07-02-2010, 05:16 PM
I thought I was the only one to use the shit on shoes analogy. (http://hotair.com/archives/2010/07/01/lemieux-to-obama-youre-getting-failure-all-over-our-shores/)

I smell a wingnut talking point:
Jindal: "What is frustrating is they just don't get it in Washington, they just don't have a sense of urgency," (http://abcnews.go.com/WN/bp-oil-spill-super-skimmer-whale-promises-cleanup/story?id=11067664)

From stinkfur's link:
"Q: It’s like there’s no sense of urgency, in this, it’s like there’s no sense of emergency in this. "


From the former link:
"Upon hearing about the oil spill, now the largest ever in the Gulf of Mexico, the owner of the ship, mysterious Taiwanese billionaire Nobu Su, ordered his engineers to cut vents in the bow and redesign the tanks inside, creating the largest skimming vessel in the world."
I bet the modifications on the ship were recently completed... any takers?

Here's the straight no-blame-game story from CNN (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/02/a-whale-largest-oil-skimm_n_633621.html)
Turns out this is a brand new retrofit. But the partisans want you to think that not only was it previously available, but that Obama himself refused to approve it, or "cut through the red tape". But it's the Coast Guard who is evaluating the safety of it.

Isn't "cutting through red tape" how this disaster happened in the first place?
Nice try spinfur!

handle
07-06-2010, 07:05 PM
Let's drill for oil in the ocean! What could go wrong? (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/07/06/70s-board-game-contains-eerie-bp-oil-spill-scenarios/)

AemJeff
07-06-2010, 07:22 PM
Let's drill for oil in the ocean! What could go wrong? (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/07/06/70s-board-game-contains-eerie-bp-oil-spill-scenarios/)

For anybody who hasn't clicked through the link, this is a more than thirty year old board game:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/07/06/c1main.offshore.oil.strike.jpg

listener
07-06-2010, 10:08 PM
For anybody who hasn't clicked through the link, this is a more than thirty year old board game:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/07/06/c1main.offshore.oil.strike.jpg

I just saw something about that on TV... un-f*cking-believable! (Hazard card in the game: "Blowout - rig damaged. Oil slick cleanup cost: pay $1 million.")

bjkeefe
07-07-2010, 02:13 AM
Roy Edroso reports (http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2010_07_04_archive.html#1480872609543229252) that the Heritage Foundation is going to make everything all better.

Sadly, one of the shilling posts that Roy looks at is written by Conn Carroll.

Whatfur
07-07-2010, 08:53 AM
Letting the days go by. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCOz-ShZwTs)

handle
07-07-2010, 01:06 PM
Letting the days go by. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCOz-ShZwTs)

Wow that was a first class production.. must have cost a fortune.
I'm not sure "these guys are as bad as we were" is a platform that will win a lot of support. You guys might want to save a few million dollars and just float by on the fact that there is always the rebound vote.

Too bad the oily spill issue is turning around, and months before the election. Now the Dems will benefit from the Pub strategy of depending on limited collective memory.
Gotta give you righties credit for throwing lots of money and resources at making this political instead of working toward a solution.
Whining instead of working doesn't really make you look like leaders, however. Either does wasting money on PR in a time of crisis.
But you are about what ever works for you, and not what is right... right?

Whatfur
07-07-2010, 03:19 PM
Quagmire? (http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/01/the-mire-next-time.html)

handle
07-07-2010, 04:02 PM
Quagmire? (http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/01/the-mire-next-time.html)

Good story.. Limited partisan drum beating. These folks want to protect their stretch of beach, but couldn't spend the money without a guarantee that they would get it back from BP/Fed. Gov.. So they waited, and they waited, and now they still can't implement their plan, and they still don't have any money... frustrating.

Can anybody make the argument that the furball would have posted this if Mccain was POTUS? No one? Anyone?
No wonder he freaked when Kidneystones got booted. Now I get it.

handle
07-07-2010, 04:20 PM
Good story.. Limited partisan drum beating. These folks want to protect their stretch of beach, but couldn't spend the money without a guarantee that they would get it back from BP/Fed. Gov.. So they waited, and they waited, and now they still can't implement their plan, and they still don't have any money... frustrating.

Can anybody make the argument that the furball would have posted this if Mccain was POTUS? No one? Anyone?
No wonder he freaked when Kidneystones got booted. Now I get it.

Wait a minute... what if these guys (http://www.rightchange.com/), who made the video from your earlier post, gave the money instead to these guys (http://www.co.okaloosa.fl.us/bcc_wayne_harris.html) from your next post, so they could fight back the oil slick?

That wouldn't be capitalizing on tragedy to regain power though, would it?
I almost overlooked your motivation for starting this thread in the first place... sorry. Won't happen again.

handle
07-09-2010, 05:17 PM
How come the ever-so concerned, self-proclaimed "conservative" don't post here when the news is promising? (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gulf_oil_spill)
Just kidding! we all know why....

Whatfur
07-09-2010, 06:06 PM
How come the ever-so concerned, self-proclaimed "conservative" don't post here when the news is promising? (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gulf_oil_spill)
Just kidding! we all know why....

Oh really. (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=162857#post162857)

handle
07-09-2010, 06:14 PM
Oh really. (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=162857#post162857)

One for you!
I am not defending but clarifying, I was referring more to the above cluster of finger pointing links and the glaring lack of a recent post.

handle
07-09-2010, 06:32 PM
So howsabout a "thank god and BP for Kevin Costner"? (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/entertainment/post/2010/07/kevin-costners-oil-spill-clean-up-ship-sets-sail--/1)

Added: Wonder when "Oil World" will be released?

handle
07-14-2010, 07:54 PM
Election year finger pointing losing steam? (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/behind-the-numbers/2010/07/negative_reviews_for_obama_on.html?wprss=behind-the-numbers)

handle
07-15-2010, 03:46 PM
Fingers crossed! (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-07-15/bp-begins-test-on-leaking-well-in-gulf-of-mexico.html)

So if they fix it, it will be in spite of the Presidents "bungling" right?

Whatfur
07-15-2010, 05:32 PM
Fingers crossed! (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-07-15/bp-begins-test-on-leaking-well-in-gulf-of-mexico.html)

So if they fix it, it will be in spite of the Presidents "bungling" right?

No buddy...go to very first post and start reading from there...and then repeat about 50 times and you might find your answer in there somewhere. Sometimes playing the idiot and being one is a fine line.

handle
07-15-2010, 05:44 PM
Sometimes playing the idiot and being one is a fine line.
Always nice to hear from the experienced. Nice condescension... hit a nerve, eh Captain?

Whatfur
07-15-2010, 05:58 PM
Always nice to hear from the experienced. Nice condescension... hit a nerve, eh Captain?

If I was the Captain you would only speak when spoken to, but sorry didn't realize you were so sensitive....

From above:

"I am with you that when it concerns the accident and the plugging of the "damn hole"... is beyond his control...beyond governments expertise. However, I do think his protection of the coasts and responding to the the clean-up in general has been weak verging on incompetent... if not negligence."

handle
07-15-2010, 06:08 PM
If I was the Captain you would only speak when spoken to, but sorry didn't realize you were so sensitive....

From above:

"I am with you that when it concerns the accident and the plugging of the "damn hole"... is beyond his control...beyond governments expertise. However, I do think his protection of the coasts and responding to the the clean-up in general has been weak verging on incompetent... if not negligence."

Oohhh My baaad, The capping is beyond the government expertise, but containing and separating millions of gallons of crude from the surrounding waters isn't? Sorry to conflate the oil and the leak.

I'm not your swabbie captain, I'm the barnacle on your ass, and consider myself your intellectual superior (not saying much).

handle
07-15-2010, 08:06 PM
Also "from above":
I also have a long memory so I admit some of this is for the assholes (you know who your are) who jumped all over Bush about Katrina and continue to.

I guess it's a good thing Bush or Obama didn't send the Coast Guard to Iraq, just the National Guard.... who helps with disaster relief... like hurricanes...and floods.
But hey, oil spill in the ocean, water spill on the ground.... why split hairs when it's really partisan revenge you are after, right?

Whatfur
07-15-2010, 09:24 PM
Also "from above":



At least you know who you are.

bjkeefe
07-16-2010, 09:56 AM
Sometimes playing the idiot and being one is a fine line.

That is itself a fine line, albeit unintentionally.

handle
07-16-2010, 02:04 PM
Actually I didn't "jump all over him", by then he wouldn't even take my calls.

listener
07-20-2010, 12:24 AM
From the Press-Register (http://blog.al.com/live/2010/07/bp_buys_up_gulf_scientists_for.html) in Mobile, Alabama.

After BP's efforts to cover up the deaths of marine animals (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/06/02/2010-06-02_the_hidden_death_in_the_gulf.html), this is not surprising.

bjkeefe
07-20-2010, 11:41 AM
From the Press-Register (http://blog.al.com/live/2010/07/bp_buys_up_gulf_scientists_for.html) in Mobile, Alabama.

After BP's efforts to cover up the deaths of marine animals (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/06/02/2010-06-02_the_hidden_death_in_the_gulf.html), this is not surprising.

Thanks for passing that link along. I am going to take the liberty of quoting from the beginning of it (the first one), to encourage more people to read it in full.

For the last few weeks, BP has been offering signing bonuses and lucrative pay to prominent scientists from public universities around the Gulf Coast to aid its defense against spill litigation.

BP PLC attempted to hire the entire marine sciences department at one Alabama university, according to scientists involved in discussions with the company's lawyers. The university declined because of confidentiality restrictions that the company sought on any research.

The Press-Register obtained a copy of a contract offered to scientists by BP. It prohibits the scientists from publishing their research, sharing it with other scientists or speaking about the data that they collect for at least the next three years.

"We told them there was no way we would agree to any kind of restrictions on the data we collect. It was pretty clear we wouldn't be hearing from them again after that," said Bob Shipp, head of marine sciences at the University of South Alabama. "We didn't like the perception of the university representing BP in any fashion."

BP officials declined to answer the newspaper's questions about the matter. Among the questions: how many scientists and universities have been approached, how many are under contract, how much will they be paid, and why the company imposed confidentiality restrictions on scientific data gathered on its behalf.

Shipp said he can't prohibit scientists in his department from signing on with BP because, like most universities, the staff is allowed to do outside consultation for up to eight hours a week.

More than one scientist interviewed by the Press-Register described being offered $250 an hour through BP lawyers. At eight hours a week, that amounts to $104,000 a year.

Scientists from Louisiana State University, University of Southern Mississippi and Texas A&M have reportedly accepted, according to academic officials. Scientists who study marine invertebrates, plankton, marsh environments, oceanography, sharks and other topics have been solicited.

The rest. (http://blog.al.com/live/2010/07/bp_buys_up_gulf_scientists_for.html)

handle
07-21-2010, 02:09 PM
I was channel surfing (sorry, didn't catch what program) the other night, and some blowhard pundit was positing that Halliburton was in no way responsible because they recommended 21 centering devices and BP used only 6.

Here's a link to what he was talking about (I assume). (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704026204575266560930780190.html)

Quote:
"Halliburton, the cementing contractor, advised BP to install numerous devices to make sure the pipe was centered in the well before pumping cement, according to Halliburton documents, provided to congressional investigators and seen by the Journal. Otherwise, the cement might develop small channels that gas could squeeze through.

In an April 18 report to BP, Halliburton warned that if BP didn't use more centering devices, the well would likely have "a SEVERE gas flow problem." Still, BP decided to install fewer of the devices than Halliburton recommended—six instead of 21."


So I immediately thought, what if a furnace repairman went to an apartment building, put in a new boiler, but the owner did want to pay him to completely secure it in place. The repairman warned the owner of the potential danger of cutting corners, but when pressed, did what was asked of him.
You know the rest.. the boiler blows up, causes an electrical fire, and the building is destroyed, or something like that.
Who do you think is responsible? The idiot owner, or the expert who knew what would happen and went ahead and did the job anyway, or both?

Since I am psychic, I am going to predict a "Nuremburg" style statement from Halliburton soon:
Vee veer chust followink oddass!

bjkeefe
07-21-2010, 04:37 PM
NYT reports (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/22/business/energy-environment/22response.html):

Oil Companies Plan Rapid Response to Gulf Spills

Four large oil companies are committing $1 billion to set up a rapid response system to deal with oil spills in the Gulf of Mexico’s deep waters. The effort is aimed partly at deflecting efforts by some state and federal officials to stop or severely restrict drilling in the gulf in the wake of the BP spill.

[...]

Oil companies hope the initiative will help persuade government regulators and the administration to allow them to resume offshore drilling in the Gulf of Mexico as soon as possible. The Obama administration imposed a six-month ban on deepwater drilling days after the Deepwater Horizon accident.

[...]

Frank Verrastro, an energy expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said such an initiative was badly needed.

“The spill exposed the fact that the industry’s capability on capture and clean-up was 1980s vintage ..."

In other words, the free market worked!!!1! No totalitarian Obama=HitlerSocialism was required!!!1!

Starwatcher162536
07-23-2010, 11:58 AM
I doubt it matters. Final responsibility is always held by the owner of the lease. This isn't just specific to just offshore rigs either, the general contractor always assumes responsibility for the work done by subcontractors.

handle
07-23-2010, 01:44 PM
I doubt it matters. Final responsibility is always held by the owner of the lease. This isn't just specific to just offshore rigs either, the general contractor always assumes responsibility for the work done by subcontractors.

But what about an industry (and a political movement) that is allergic to government oversight? If they do not implement their own systems of checks and balances (who knows more about keeping it safe than the "experts" at haliburton?), then how can they possibly have a problem with the terrible "socialism" of regulation by the "nanny state".
They squeal like pigs about this stuff but then refuse to be accountable. Why isn't there an industry wide coalition of the oil companies, dedicated to keep the more reckless of them from ruining the profit fest for all?

It is a question of common sense, and self preservation. If one of my customers wants me to remove the safety ground from his guitar amp, and I warn him of possible shock hazard and even death, do I still do what he wants? Heeeellll noooo! Not only are dead customers bad for return business, but the word gets out. Not to mention, due to my bleedin' heart libral tendencies, I would feel real bad forever.
Any of you lawyers out there want to chime in on this?

bjkeefe
07-23-2010, 02:04 PM
But what about an industry (and a political movement) that is allergic to government oversight? If they do not implement their own systems of checks and balances (who knows more about keeping it safe than the "experts" at haliburton?), then how can they possibly have a problem with the terrible "socialism" of regulation by the "nanny state".
They squeal like pigs about this stuff but then refuse to be accountable. Why isn't there an industry wide coalition of the oil companies, dedicated to keep the more reckless of them from ruining the profit fest for all?

It is a question of common sense, and self preservation. If one of my customers wants me to remove the safety ground from his guitar amp, and I warn him of possible shock hazard and even death, do I still do what he wants? Heeeellll noooo! Not only are dead customers bad for return business, but the word gets out. Not to mention, due to my bleedin' heart libral tendencies, I would feel real bad forever.
Any of you lawyers out there want to chime in on this?

Good post. I'd just add this supporting link (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=170979&highlight=1980s+vintage#post170979).

Starwatcher162536
07-23-2010, 03:04 PM
The relationship between you and your customers is nothing like the relationship between a general and sub contractor. The general must claim expertise in all related areas, as the general is the one that is liable.

handle
07-23-2010, 03:59 PM
The relationship between you and your customers is nothing like the relationship between a general and sub contractor. The general must claim expertise in all related areas, as the general is the one that is liable.

Good point. But it could be, if my customer was a guitar amp reseller or manufacturer.
I still say where is the morality, and the oversight? I will reiterate that it's not just the right thing to do, but the smart, and self preserving thing to do. I personally would cut ties with anyone who compromised the safety or integrity of my work, even as a legally non-liable sub.

If they really are not liable for willfully endangering the lives and livelihoods of those affected, then shouldn't the laws regarding culpability be changed to include them?

handle
07-23-2010, 04:07 PM
Good point. But it could be, if my customer was a guitar amp reseller or manufacturer.
I still say where is the morality, and the oversight? I will reiterate that it's not just the right thing to do, but the smart, and self preserving thing to do. I personally would cut ties with anyone who compromised the safety or integrity of my work, even as a legally non-liable sub.

If they really are not liable for willfully endangering the lives and livelihoods of those affected, then shouldn't the laws regarding culpability be changed to include them?

After all, if the subs refused to cut the corners that were cut, wouldn't the disaster have been averted?

Added: This is what I mean by the Nuremburg defense, we all have to feed our kids, but how can you justify endangering others just because you were told to, or because you can get a way with it?

Starwatcher162536
07-23-2010, 06:10 PM
If they really are not liable for willfully endangering the lives and livelihoods of those affected, then shouldn't the laws regarding culpability be changed to include them?

I assume the end result you are seeking is less accidents. If so, we are better off leaving final say so and responsibility in the hands of the general. It's easy enough (For most applications) to shop around for some small sub willing to cut corners to earn a buck. The larger generals incentives usually do not line up with cutting corners as their are various "safety numbers" larger companies have to submit to clients on their estimates which can really hurt the chances of them winning the job if said numbers are bad. Putting more responsibility into the hands of the subs just strikes me as a way to let the generals offload responsibility (Bad for public as many subs will not have deep pockets). Another reason I am hesitant about giving responsibility to subs is in many cases they do not have enough information about the job at large to make these calls. All they can really do is make sure they meet the specs given to them.

Disclaimer: Most of this is second hand knowledge at a 20k feet view. I've worked for EPC's in the past, but most of this contract stuff is done on the operations side well above the likes of me. A quick google didn't really turn up anything that can clarify.

Edit:
The only way I can see Halliburton as a company being held to hold much responsibility is if they had a proprietary design on the concrete work being done.

chiwhisoxx
07-25-2010, 06:59 PM
Letting the days go by:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psJGHGeLSeE

handle
07-26-2010, 07:00 PM
Letting the days go by:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psJGHGeLSeE

Already been posted above (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=168581#post168581) by the hillbillycolloquialism himself, and ridiculed as a waste of money by me.
But if you are thinking redundancy helps your agenda, then I yield the floor.

chiwhisoxx
07-26-2010, 08:31 PM
Already been posted above (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=168581#post168581) by the hillbillycolloquialism himself, and ridiculed as a waste of money by me.
But if you are thinking redundancy helps your agenda, then I yield the floor.

Yeah, cause something like this is really pretty serious, and is definitely about pushing an agenda. If you didn't have a sense of humor, you could have just said so.

Starwatcher162536
07-26-2010, 09:21 PM
This one is much better; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RojRPQq2-Q&NR=1

bjkeefe
07-26-2010, 11:29 PM
If you didn't have a sense of humor, you could have just said so.

Yeah. Because if there's any area where chiwhi is qualified to pass judgment, it's definitely on lacking a (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=171638#post171638) sense of humor (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=171591#post171591).

handle
07-27-2010, 12:54 PM
Yeah, cause something like this is really pretty serious, and is definitely about pushing an agenda.

It's OK, I've been guilty in the past of chiming in on a thread without reading the posts first, but I soon learned better... I have confidence that you will too.

I am curious if anyone thinks that the video is apolitical... or worth a large production budget. I promise not to respond.

If you didn't have a sense of humor, you could have just said so.

Ho golllly! za zenze of humer geshtapppo iss cominck!
Kvick! show zem your funny papass!

handle
07-27-2010, 02:56 PM
This one is much better; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RojRPQq2-Q&NR=1

I have to disagree, because they eff'd up the guitar hook.

handle
08-03-2010, 01:59 PM
Looks like the wingnut push to turn this into "Obama's Katrina" will go the way of "Obamacare", and "Nazi socialism". Nice try, douchebaggers, as the hillbillycolloquialism likes to say: "You know who you are".

Maybe it's time to get in touch with reality? I know, it's just not your style...
I guess you still have the old "elitist" lie to beat to death.

Ocean
08-07-2010, 11:37 AM
Another spill? (http://action.sierraclub.org/site/MessageViewer?em_id=183801.0&dlv_id=157322)

I had no idea. I was away for a couple of weeks and lost touch with current events. What's going on with this?

Starwatcher162536
08-07-2010, 11:47 AM
http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=5657

Info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Pipeline)

For it? Against it? No opinion? I'm kinda torn on the issue myself. I feel the environmental degradations resulting from the pipeline itself are trivial, the attempts to link it to the Macondo well disaster is facile, and that the increase in energy security it would bring as significant (Good to have more supply from a stable country like Canada when Mexico's output is falling and Venezuela is nationalizing American oil rigs). On the other hand, I hate to build infrastructure that would be encouraging the expansion of bitumen extraction.

Ocean
08-07-2010, 11:54 AM
http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=5657

Thank you, Starwatcher! I hadn't noticed that thread. It seems like there wasn't much discussion. What have you heard?

Starwatcher162536
08-07-2010, 12:06 PM
I've known that there were several spills, but I hadn't heard of that one specifically. Considering your source, a second source would be nice. I use an environmental group's stance on nuclear power as a litmus test for if they are serious.

Starwatcher162536
08-07-2010, 12:11 PM
http://www.sierraclub.org/policy/conservation/nuc-power.aspx

The Sierra Club opposes the licensing, construction and operation of new nuclear reactors utilizing the fission process, pending:

1. Development of adequate national and global policies to curb energy over-use and unnecessary economic growth.
2. Resolution of the significant safety problems inherent in reactor operation, disposal of spent fuels, and possible diversion of nuclear materials capable of use in weapons manufacture.
3. Establishment of adequate regulatory machinery to guarantee adherence to the foregoing conditions. The above resolution does not apply to research reactors.


Environmental and health concerns relating to the long term sequestration of high-level nuclear waste are in my mind not proportional to the level of threat. At least not when you account for the stringent safety protocols. I believe the impetus behind this hyperactive fear is that people often hear that we are unsure if current proposed containment facilities, such as Yukka mountain or the waste isolation pilot plant, will maintain their structural integrity and meet safety standards over the whole lifetime of the radioactive material. Why I believe people's current level of trepidation on this issue is silly is because people do not take a step back and consider just how much overkill the current safety standards are. What are the standards you ask? That nearby people will not receive 15 mrem per annum over a timeframe of the next 10,000 years (300 mram per annum is the average exposure from natural sources[Source (http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/natural.htm)]). Why is it nuclear waste has to meet standards thousands of times more strict then other procedures we practice with impunity? I myself would be much more worried about living in an area where solution mining for gold/silver that uses potassium cyanide as the main active chemical agent is practiced. Anyways, this video (http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/447) gives a good overview of the sequestration issue, starting at the 22 minute mark.

Ocean
08-07-2010, 12:15 PM
http://www.sierraclub.org/policy/conservation/nuc-power.aspx

I didn't use that source for their opinion necessarily. I just didn't know about the spill in Michigan and I received an email from Sierra Club describing it. I don't even remember why I'm getting their emails. I must have signed up or contributed in the past.

bjkeefe
08-07-2010, 02:22 PM
I've known that there were several spills, but I hadn't heard of that one specifically. Considering your source, a second source would be nice. I use an environmental group's stance on nuclear power as a litmus test for if they are serious.

As I have said elsewhere about other topics, kneejerk skepticism is still kneejerk.

How hard would it have been to do this (http://www.google.com/search?q=oil+spill+michigan)? Pretty hard, I guess!

Here, for example, is a 27 July post from the HuffPo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/27/michigan-oil-spill-among_n_661196.html), passing along a report from the Kalamazoo Gazette (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/07/state_of_emergency_declared_as.html). Here is a 28 July report from the Detroit Free Press (http://www.freep.com/article/20100728/NEWS06/7280352/Oil-spill-near-Kalamazoo-River-causes-stench--mess), and another from the NYT (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/29/us/29michigan.html).

Here is about the latest from a major news source, a 6 August report in the WaPo (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/05/AR2010080506562.html?hpid=topnews). More here (http://www.google.com/search?q=oil+spill+michigan&hl=en&prmd=nu&source=univ&tbs=nws:1&tbo=u&ei=vqNdTOOlMMH6lwenu9CZCA&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CC0QsQQwAA) and here (http://www.google.com/search?q=oil%20spill%20michigan&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=blg:1&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wb).

Ocean
08-07-2010, 02:31 PM
As I have said elsewhere about other topics, kneejerk skepticism is still kneejerk.

How hard would it have been to do this (http://www.google.com/search?q=oil+spill+michigan)? Pretty hard, I guess!

Here, for example, is a 27 July post from the HuffPo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/27/michigan-oil-spill-among_n_661196.html), passing along a report from the Kalamazoo Gazette (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/07/state_of_emergency_declared_as.html). Here is a 28 July report from the Detroit Free Press (http://www.freep.com/article/20100728/NEWS06/7280352/Oil-spill-near-Kalamazoo-River-causes-stench--mess), and another from the NYT (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/29/us/29michigan.html).

Here is about the latest from a major news source, a 6 August report in the WaPo (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/05/AR2010080506562.html?hpid=topnews). More here (http://www.google.com/search?q=oil+spill+michigan&hl=en&prmd=nu&source=univ&tbs=nws:1&tbo=u&ei=vqNdTOOlMMH6lwenu9CZCA&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CC0QsQQwAA) and here (http://www.google.com/search?q=oil%20spill%20michigan&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=blg:1&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wb).

Thank you, Brendan. Those links seem to cover the news well.

Starwatcher162536
08-12-2010, 01:55 AM
The Sierra Club is not so fringe that they would outright make things up, but the tenor of their articles along with some of their context free factoids can sometimes be highly misleading.


Like BP, Enbridge, the company responsible for the Michigan oil spill, has constantly assured our government and citizens that its operations are safe; yet this company alone has been responsible for over 600 spills in the last ten years.

For all I know 75% of those spills are just transformer spills, not significant pipeline spills.


The pipeline will cross the Ogallala Aquifer which supplies one third of all agricultural water used in this country as well as the drinking water to eight states. Furthermore, the pipeline will lead to expanded air pollution in Texas.


How likely is it for a surface spill to be able to contaminate an underground aquifer? That oil is going to need to seep through alot of clay.

cragger
08-12-2010, 11:10 AM
How likely is it for a surface spill to be able to contaminate an underground aquifer? That oil is going to need to seep through alot of clay.

Isn't that how the water gets into the aquifer, by seeping down?

Starwatcher162536
08-12-2010, 04:16 PM
Well, yes, but how likely is it that it will seep down? I admit I don't have any data, and a 2 minute google search didn't drudge up any satisfactory information, but going with gut feeling alone, I'd say the % of pipeline leaks that more then 100 gallons end up in a local aquifer is rather low. Isn't most pipeline petrol products rather viscous and sticky?

Okay fine, I don't know, my point is only that even if this huge aquifer isn't likely to be contaminated by this proposed pipeline, you wouldn't hear about it from the Sierra Club.