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View Full Version : Did Obama Fail As a Community Organizer in Chicago?


Lyle
09-29-2009, 01:19 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090929/ap_on_re_us/us_chicago_beating_death

Shit like this disgusts me to no end.

kezboard
09-29-2009, 01:59 AM
I don't know if you're trying to make a point about Obama, about community organizing, or about Chicago with this subject line, but FAIL. The South Side is a big place. The neighborhood where this occurred is nowhere near where Obama lives.

Lyle
09-29-2009, 02:13 AM
So you're telling us Barack Obama was only a community organizer in Hyde Park? Or are you telling us that the obscene amount of murders in Chicago have only happened in the parts of the Windy City where Barack Obama never set foot in? Or both?

Someone has failed and/or is failing in Chicago though... not sure if someone has undone all the good works Obama did or if Obama just didn't accomplish anything of substance as a community organizer. All I know is that black kids are killing other black kids out the wazoo there, and it is disgusting.

bjkeefe
09-29-2009, 04:22 AM
http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/56719342.html

Shit like this disgusts me to no end.

Lyle
09-29-2009, 06:30 AM
That is disgusting, but it has nothing to do with the obscene amount of murders in Chicago, or the disproportionate amount of black on black violent crime there... and in the neighborhoods Barack Obama community organized in.

bjkeefe
09-29-2009, 06:52 AM
That is disgusting, but it has nothing to do with the obscene amount of murders in Texas, or the disproportionate amount of white on white violent crime there... and in the neighborhoods George W. Bush governed.

TwinSwords
09-29-2009, 06:56 AM
I don't know if you're trying to make a point about Obama

Well, let me answer that for you: Yes, he's trying to make a point about Obama. Sure, Lyle knows it's bullshit, but he doesn't care; he's a wingnut. He's happy to throw anything he can at Obama, whether it makes sense or not. The point is to damage Obama.

bjkeefe
09-29-2009, 07:14 AM
Well, let me answer that for you: Yes, he's trying to make a point about Obama. Sure, Lyle knows it's bullshit, but he doesn't care; he's a wingnut. He's happy to throw anything he can at Obama, whether it makes sense or not. The point is to damage Obama.

Along with giving a little stroke to his fellow crypto-racists.

nikkibong
09-29-2009, 07:56 AM
Keefe, that was hilarious!

nikkibong
09-29-2009, 07:57 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090929/ap_on_re_us/us_chicago_beating_death

Shit like this disgusts me to no end.

And you know what disgusts me to to no end?

Attempting to politicize an atrocitty like this in order to score a cheap shot. Show a little respect.

Lyle
09-29-2009, 08:26 AM
This story is the morning lead on Tuesday, Sept. 29 2009

Lyle
09-29-2009, 08:30 AM
No, no I won't. Blacks killing blacks is a problem in America. Our President spent much of his pre-elected office career in the slums of Chicago and apparently there's not much to show for it.

You people can't even fucking talk about the issue. And since that's the case, I'm not going to shut up about it.

edited due to grammar commissar keefe

Lyle
09-29-2009, 08:33 AM
Really, whites disproportionately kill whites in Texas? No links from you. Odd.

bjkeefe
09-29-2009, 08:44 AM
No, no I want. Blacks killing blacks ...

Your slip (http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&q=define%3Afreudian+slip&btnG=Google+Search) is showing, darling.

Whatfur
09-29-2009, 08:45 AM
And you know what disgusts me to to no end?

Attempting to politicize an atrocitty like this in order to score a cheap shot. Show a little respect.

You mean like politicizing a swine flu death of a young woman without health insurance.

(In spite of the fact it was not swine flu and she died in Miami, University Hospital)

bjkeefe
09-29-2009, 08:46 AM
...

Lyle
09-29-2009, 08:46 AM
Won't, duh.

Lyle
09-29-2009, 09:10 AM
No, actually I want fewer black kids dying on our streets. If it means we have to throw President Obama under the bus, so be it.

Lyle
09-29-2009, 09:11 AM
Where's your link? You love links.

stephanie
09-29-2009, 09:17 AM
Well, let me answer that for you: Yes, he's trying to make a point about Obama. Sure, Lyle knows it's bullshit, but he doesn't care; he's a wingnut. He's happy to throw anything he can at Obama, whether it makes sense or not. The point is to damage Obama.

I agree with you except for the point being to damage Obama. It's too stupid even for that purpose. The point is simply to get a rise from Obama supporters. And this is the last I'm playing into it.

Lyle
09-29-2009, 09:20 AM
You don't care about black kids Stephanie?

Whatfur
09-29-2009, 09:28 AM
And you know what disgusts me to to no end?

Attempting to politicize an atrocitty like this in order to score a cheap shot. Show a little respect.


And speaking of politicizing... (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Without-Bush-media-lose-interest-in-war-caskets-8310113-62427012.html)

Lyle
09-29-2009, 09:47 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/1794569,teen-mob-killed-charges-092809.article

"The mayor is out fighting for the Olympics, and our youth are here fighting for their lives!" Queen Sister bellowed.

Not just the mayor Queen Sister.

nikkibong
09-29-2009, 09:53 AM
You mean like politicizing a swine flu death of a young woman without health insurance.

(In spite of the fact it was not swine flu and she died in Miami, University Hospital)

I have literally no idea what you are talking about.

Lyle
09-29-2009, 10:20 AM
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/metro/video_derrion_albert

Watch it.

graz
09-29-2009, 10:33 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/1794569,teen-mob-killed-charges-092809.article



Not just the mayor Queen Sister.

Lyle, the champion of racial inferiority theories is takin' it to the streets:

Armed with nothing more than a caring soul and copies of Murray's The Bell Curve, and his external speakers on his iPod will be blaring:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G54lfxiid_w

AemJeff
09-29-2009, 10:40 AM
So you're telling us Barack Obama was only a community organizer in Hyde Park? Or are you telling us that the obscene amount of murders in Chicago have only happened in the parts of the Windy City where Barack Obama never set foot in? Or both?

Someone has failed and/or is failing in Chicago though... not sure if someone has undone all the good works Obama did or if Obama just didn't accomplish anything of substance as a community organizer. All I know is that black kids are killing other black kids out the wazoo there, and it is disgusting.

She's saying you're making shit up. You have no clue what you're talking about but you're typing away furiously trying to make hay out the deaths of people you don't know apparently in an attempt to make yourself feel good about yourself.

As an analyst, fail.
As a polemicist, fail.
As a self-involved troll trying stir up dust bunnys in the corners of this forum - congratulations, you have achieved success.

Lyle
09-29-2009, 10:41 AM
Racial inferiority? I voted for Obama. And Obama is setting the Curve.

nikkibong
09-29-2009, 10:42 AM
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/metro/video_derrion_albert

Watch it.

Why?

Lyle
09-29-2009, 10:47 AM
What's amazing is none of you seem to be interested in actually lowering the number of black murder victims in America. Too racist a task for white progressives. Too much blame to go around.

Lyle
09-29-2009, 10:52 AM
So you can see black kids beat a black kid to death on a Chicago street in broad daylight.

Our America!

Lyle
09-29-2009, 11:37 AM
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200910/chicago-funeral

Almost four score years old, Leak & Sons Funeral Home, on Cottage Grove Avenue, is something of an institution on Chicago’s South Side. (In 1964, for example, it was the site of the funeral for crooner Sam Cooke.) It is also something of a barometer for murder, much to the dismay of Spencer Leak Sr., the proprietor: he buried at least 56 homicide victims between January 1 and August 1, too many of them much closer to 18 than to 80. Last year, he buried 85 homicide victims in all, the vast majority of them kids, 37 Chicago public-school students, almost all of them African American or Hispanic, killed in the 2008–09 school year, up from 27 the year before.

bjkeefe
09-29-2009, 03:06 PM
So you can see black kids beat a black kid to death on a Chicago street in broad daylight.

Our America!

I'm pretty sure you mean "Obama's America," don't you, Limbaugh-lapper (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/28/white-bus-limbaugh/)?

kezboard
09-29-2009, 07:47 PM
So you're telling us Barack Obama was only a community organizer in Hyde Park? Or are you telling us that the obscene amount of murders in Chicago have only happened in the parts of the Windy City where Barack Obama never set foot in? Or both?

I'm telling you that not everything that happens in Chicago or on the South Side has anything to do with Obama, particularly considering it's rather a big city, that if you took five seconds to find out where this high school was located, you'd realize that it really is nowhere near Hyde Park, and finally, that it isn't big news that neighborhoods like Roseland are seriously blighted and that Chicago has a shamefully high murder rate. These sort of incidents have been a part of "our America" for ages, and I don't know where you've been living that you didn't recognize that earlier.

Also, you said further down the thread that the issue of crime in urban black neighborhoods is something "liberal progressives" don't want to address because there's too much blame to go around. Actually, we have no problem placing blame -- from the CHA in the 50's to crappy school administrators now to the prison system to the mayor. It's folks going around waving The Bell Curve who are letting everyone who contributed to this awful situation off the hook and placing blame on the victims.

Lyle
09-29-2009, 08:12 PM
I know all this kezboard. That is why the title of thread is a question and not a statement. Pay attention girl.

TwinSwords
09-29-2009, 08:14 PM
This story is the morning lead on Tuesday, Sept. 29 2009

This story was on Drudge all day yesterday, which is where you originally found it, in all likelihood, unless you found it at one of the many other wingnut/loon sites you frequent.

Lyle
09-29-2009, 08:16 PM
http://www.theroot.com/views/beating-derrion-albert-must-see-tv

I winced when I saw the wooden railroad plank being smacked against Derrion Albert’s head. My stomach turned when I saw the five other young black men stomp on Albert. By the end, my eyes welled up with tears when I realized what I saw: A 16-year-old child beat to death. No doubt it was difficult for me to get through the entire 2:27 of footage, even with parts blurred out, and I’m sure it will be difficult for others to watch as well, but the fact remains: We need to watch. We need to watch and not turn away because as history has taught us, it’s the only way we’re going to learn.

Stop being cowards people.

Lyle
09-29-2009, 08:17 PM
Nope, because I posted it before he did. I read it on Yahoo! as well, and his link was to Fox in Chicago or some such.

TwinSwords
09-29-2009, 08:19 PM
Nope, because I posted it before he did. I read it on Yahoo! as well, and his link was to Fox in Chicago or some such.

I saw it on Drudge yesterday at lunchtime. You didn't post it until half a day later.

Lyle
09-29-2009, 08:22 PM
Well great, but I didn't read Drudge until this morning. I read it first on Yahoo! and started the thread immediately after.

Deal with it.

Irregardless, go watch the video of Derrion Albert getting beaten to death by several black guys in broad daylight on a Chicago street.

bjkeefe
09-29-2009, 08:51 PM
I know all this kezboard. That is why the title of thread is a question and not a statement. Pay attention girl.

Does Lyle have sex with corpses that come from children he's murdered?

Hey, I'm just asking a question.

By the way, nice touch of misogyny to go with your racism. You're a real credit to Wingnuttia.

kezboard
09-29-2009, 08:54 PM
Or are you using a deliberately deceptive style so you can make trollish points without having to back them up? So you can fall back and say "Hey, I'm just asking tough questions" a la Glenn Beck? What do you actually think the murder in Roseland says about Obama? Anything?

Pay attention girl.

Is it me who needs to be reminded of my gender, or the other commenters? Or are you just trying to come off as a douchebag because getting feminist hackles up is fun?

Lyle
09-29-2009, 09:38 PM
The subject line is tongue in cheek hyperbole or gauged hyperbole. It is there to make sensitive people get all toiled and troubled. It's meant to make people bubble and froth. Do you get that now? Controversy... to get a conversation started.

I didn't know you were a girl until AEMJeff brought your gender up. Pay attention girl is just a statement to pick at you.

claymisher
09-29-2009, 09:42 PM
Or are you using a deliberately deceptive style so you can make trollish points without having to back them up? So you can fall back and say "Hey, I'm just asking tough questions" a la Glenn Beck? What do you actually think the murder in Roseland says about Obama? Anything?



Is it me who needs to be reminded of my gender, or the other commenters? Or are you just trying to come off as a douchebag because getting feminist hackles up is fun?

I think adolescence has been hard on him. I wonder if his parents know he talks like that to strangers on the internet? At least he's not accusing everyone of being anti-Semites anymore.

kezboard
09-29-2009, 10:11 PM
Those two reasons, to make sensitive people get all toiled and troubled and to get a conversation started are almost mutually exclusive. Froth is the enemy of conversation. If you start conversations, you're being a useful commenter. If you stir up froth, you're being a troll. Mostly, I think it's shitty to use attacking people's motives as a debating tactic, which is essentially what you're doing when accusing someone of trolling, but I have a hard time believing you don't understand the difference between froth and conversation, so consider yourself accused.

Seriously, though, I'll ask you again: what do you think about what happened near Fenger High School? Do you think this has anything to do with Obama? Who are you blaming? Do you have anything to say about it besides "Oo, what a nice pointy stick to poke liberals with"?

Lyle
09-29-2009, 10:21 PM
People are having to check themselves and their beliefs. Health care ain't the only problem in America. Black Presidents ignore black slums just like White Presidents do. How successful is community organizing really? Etc, etc, etc....

Some of you can't even talk about black on black violence in an objective manner (not you per se). I mean look at nikkibong's response to my statement of "Watch it." This hyper educated dude, who loves everyone and has such a great big heart, can't understand the value in seeing what people in America really do to each other. That is cowardice. He's showing fear. Oh no, I don't want to see a black mob obliterate a 16 year old black kid to death in broad daylight on a Chicago street. People don't want that to be the America they know and love. How dare you, whitey, publicize this abomination. Their (nikkibong, I know you don't hate me :) ) hate is reserved for anybody but people actually murdering themselves and destroying their own communities from within.

Lyle
09-30-2009, 01:33 AM
Just for facts sake, not an actual, legitimate criticism of Obama. Apparently he did community organize where one of the gangs involved in the murder comes from... Altgeld Gardens.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070826/3obama.htm

As a community organizer in the Altgeld Gardens public housing project in the mid-1980s, Obama, then 23, quickly emerged as a tireless and pragmatic advocate for the community—traits that characterize the kind of president he says he wants to be. "His work as a community organizer was really a defining moment in his life, not just his career," his wife, Michelle, told U.S. News. It helped him decide "how he would impact the world"—assisting people in defining their mutual interests and working together to improve their lives.

Today, the experiences at Altgeld Gardens echo throughout his campaign.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/1794569,teen-mob-killed-charges-092809.article

The assault was not gang-related but arose from a disagreement between students who live in Altgeld Gardens and another group who live in a nearby area known as the "Ville," according to assistant Cook County state's attorney Jodi Peterson.

Lyle
09-30-2009, 03:04 AM
Not a criticism. He made an effort to do what little he could do.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/01/22/a_defining_time_of_advocacy/

Obama's best-selling memoir, "Dreams From My Father," devotes more than 100 pages to his experiences at Altgeld and nearby neighborhoods, but he filled the book with pseudonyms and vividly re-created scenes. Even his backers say Obama's achievements were modest, while stressing how the experience shaped his aspirations.

stephanie
10-01-2009, 04:28 PM
People are having to check themselves and their beliefs.

This is silly. Nothing in this thread has touched on anyone's beliefs, and tragic as it is, I doubt anyone here had beliefs that are challenged by the awful murder rate or the facts of a specific murder in Chicago. (I mean, what's the supposed belief? That liberals think that all crime committed by black people will cease if the president is black? That's practically Glenn Beck worthy.)

And I find it difficult to believe that you were honestly confused about this or really think there is some "belief" held by people here that is in conflict with the existence of such incidents.

I'll also note that you have admitted what I pointed out from the beginning -- that there's no reasonable connection between the incident and Obama and thus that the purpose of this thread was just to annoy people.

As kezboard points out, the effect is to make a conversation less likely to happen, not to start one. If you really cared about the horrible violence in various neighborhoods in Chicago and across the country, you wouldn't use it to make a joking comment about Obama.

Lyle
10-02-2009, 02:32 AM
I wasn't talking about just this thread Stephanie and the subject line is hyperbolic. It was meant to draw attention to the awful crime that happened in broad daylight, in a black neighborhood in Chicago.

Of course President Obama can't solve the problem, no more than President Bush could. However, we, America, have a problem with black on black crime and really just violent black crime on whomever. It's a truth, not some made up racist shit.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mBasfSNyWbg/R_p6_jWHRLI/AAAAAAAAA0Y/TJsGLDJkfYM/S1600-R/Homicide+Offenders+by+Race+1976-2005.bmp

DOJ Bureau of Statistics - Homicide

http://actingwhite.blogspot.com/


... and about Obama. Can't make a joke about Obama? What? I can only talk seriously about the issue and him? That's ridiculous. Furthermore there is something to be said about the legitimacy of community organizing. If you hadn't noticed ACORN has shit all over itself. Obama himself, although he lauds community organizers, seems to realize not much can be done at the basic community level by outside groups... which is why he went off the Law School and then got into the politics, and didn't remain in the hood.

Not to mention that hoods across America are still as violent as ever. Progress!

kezboard
10-02-2009, 03:51 AM
Not to mention that hoods across America are still as violent as ever. Progress!

Not true, actually.
Whether you want to call it "progress" or not (there are probably a zillion reasons for the decrease in urban violent crime, and the justice of plenty of things that have affected it, like gentrification or changes in housing policy, can be debated forever) American cities are not as violent as they were in, say, the eighties. I mean, I don't know exactly what you mean by "hoods across America" -- I have no idea if the murder rate in the most dangerous neighborhood in Chicago has gone up or down, although it would be awfully interesting to find out (and actually determining what neighborhood is the most dangerous in Chicago is a pretty fraught question). Like, there are still places in the city where crimes happen all the time over stupid things, and that's really bad? Yes, I agree, that's true.

However, we, America, have a problem with black on black crime and really just violent black crime on whomever. It's a truth, not some made up racist shit.

We, America, have a problem with crime. Period. I don't know if you've noticed, but black people are part of American society and the problems that affect them can't be separated from the problems that affect all of us. I would also really appreciate it if we paused for a second, in between ranting about how what we really all need are guns in our pockets to protect us and soothing ourselves with the idea that since our society is so heterogenous we're bound to have a high crime rate or that particular segments of society are culturally or genetically programmed into behaving in criminal ways, and thought for a second about how our giant amount of economic inequality may contribute to our crime problem. I'm not saying that's the only cause, I'm just saying that maybe in the next diavlog where Kleiman talks about reducing crime and punishment or Loury talks about prison reform, someone could maybe bring the idea up for a couple of minutes.

Lyle
10-02-2009, 05:45 AM
Of course black Americans are part of America... that's why I've been talking about lowering the number of black murder victims in this country. They're the worse off group of people in America when it comes to homicide. Why are you failing to understand this?

Get over the fact that liberals aren't the only people who care about black folk in this country. You don't love them any more or less than I do.

And yes violent crime has gone down across the country, but not everywhere and certainly not in certain neighborhoods. It is still happening at unacceptable levels, which is really all that matters. The 200+ murders that have happened in Chicago so far matter. Pooh poohing, are sugar coating the problem doesn't help in my opinion, because it makes people think everything is fine and that its not something they should be concerned about.

stephanie
10-02-2009, 05:09 PM
I wasn't talking about just this thread Stephanie and the subject line is hyperbolic.

It's not hyperbole, it's a dumb non-sequitur.

It was meant to draw attention to the awful crime that happened in broad daylight, in a black neighborhood in Chicago.

Yeah, okay. Except that's not actually what you said. And again, that the crime might bring to attention issues that are worth discussing (none of which you have raised here) is true. But that awful crimes happen, and happen in Chicago, is hardly going to surprise anyone. If you thought that, you are weirdly sheltered or something. But, of course, you didn't think that, did you?

So, then, what's the point? Well, now, you are claiming that you wanted to talk about crime. However, if so, why would you start a topic about Obama's job out of college as if liberals thought Obama had ended crime (yeah, right)? That's just weird. It doesn't suggest that you are interested in a serious conversation at all, even if it were apparently from the thread what it is you wanted to talk about (which it's not, and still isn't).

As you admitted, the purpose wasn't a conversation at all, but to irritate people. It's just too ridiculous a connection to even serve that purpose, so it leaves me wondering why you go to a forum dedicated to discussion if you have no interest in actually discussing stuff with people or an honest exchange of ideas, but just want to say off the wall stuff to see how they react.

However, we, America, have a problem with black on black crime and really just violent black crime on whomever. It's a truth, not some made up racist shit.

Yes, there is crime, yes, the crime rate is worse some places (neighborhoods, etc.) than others.

But again I'm trying to figure out what it is you want to talk about. No one disputes that there is crime or that violent crime is bad and we would be better off if there were less of it. Presumably, then, your point has something to do with this black on black crime, the existence of which is not made up (does anyone think that it is or, for that matter, that white on white crime is made up or any other subset of crime)? Care to elaborate on what you are trying to say?

Can't make a joke about Obama?

As you know perfectly well, no one said that. Fact is, you didn't make a joke about Obama.

Lyle
01-14-2010, 06:22 PM
http://www.city-journal.org/2010/20_1_chicago-crime.html