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Lyle
09-05-2009, 01:40 PM
Thoughts? Should he resign or be asked to resign?

bjkeefe
09-05-2009, 07:40 PM
Alex Pareene (http://gawker.com/5352832/who-is-van-jones):

The story of how the President's Special Advisor for Green Jobs became the biggest, scariest villain of the right wing (this week, anyway) is also the story of how the right wing information delivery process works now.

Here's the biography of Van Jones: he was a bookish black kid from Tennessee who went to Yale Law and moved to San Francisco and became a radical. Then he decided to use his law degree and smarts to clean up and make things better from inside the establishment.

He was, he openly acknowledges, a "full-on Marxist" in early '90s California. He joined a revolutionary Marxist group and protested police brutality. Then he founded the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ella_Baker_Center_for_Human_Rights), which combats over-incarceration, police brutality, and urban poverty and violence.

Running a civil rights group dedicated to producing real and immediate improvements in urban life will make a revolutionary Marxist a bit more pragmatic. Jones began focusing on job creation, and, with a bit of prognostic intuition that ought to put Thomas Friedman to shame, he decided, in the late-'90s, to focus on "Green Jobs." This is, you know, capitalism—he wants to create wealth, and use market forces to make the world and black communities better places!

And in 2008 he wrote a book called The Green Collar Economy, and it made the Times best-seller list, making him as much of a figure of the mainstream as Sean Hannity or Malcolm Gladwell.

So here we have a radical youth turned respectable liberal. Respectable enough to be on Time magazine listicles and win World Economic Forum prizes and everything. Respectable enough for Tom Friedman to profile him. And The New Yorker. Respectable enough for Meg Whitman, as in former eBay CEO and wealthy Republican California gubernatorial candidate and John McCain advisor Meg Whitman, to proclaim herself "a huge fan of Van Jones."

And for both his activism and his charm he was rewarded with a White House job with the Council on Environmental Quality. He was tasked with making sure stimulus money for green jobs actually went to green jobs (http://www.thebigmoney.com/articles/mothers-milk/2009/04/19/van-jones-face-green-jobs?page=full). And he's a great person to have in this administration—he is a genuine environmentalist and the only special interest he's beholden to is poor people. He is the sort of person we were all praying Obama would bring with him to DC, instead of Larry Summers.

And that is one of the reasons he is now being ritually and savagely demonized.

To understand why and how he's being demonized, we have to look at the way information and misinformation makes it way from crazy blogs to crazy pundits to crazy citizens to, suddenly, the non-crazy regular media.

The "why" is simple: he is a genuine left-wing liberal with a White House job. He is black. He used to be radical, and probably still has radical sympathies (you know, caring about poor black people and all that). He is, in other words, fucking terrifying, if you frame his story right.

World Net Daily is an old and hugely popular far-right conspiracy "news" website. We've discussed their promotion and popularization of the birther conspiracy but both their influence and insanity cannot be understated. They have a huge email list. The people on that list click on ads and spend money. WND is almost as profitable as Gawker Media. The RNC needs access to that list. So they humor them. And they sponsor them.

And these are the people who insist that there will be FEMA concentration camps and a NAFTA superhighway and a single North American currency and, yes, it is birther central.

WND discovered Jones in April. (http://washingtonindependent.com/57776/far-right-site-gains-influence-in-obama-era) They took publicly available information about Jones' civil rights past, his arrest at a Rodney King protest (he was not charged with anything because it was one of those illegal but common mass arrests) and his own statements about his youthful radicalism and made a scary, scary story called "Will a 'red' help blacks go green?" Wow, right? And, yes, these were not secrets—remember the Friedman and New Yorker profiles?

Dave Weigel explains how this all snowballed in The Washington Independent: (http://washingtonindependent.com/57776/far-right-site-gains-influence-in-obama-era) On July 23, Glenn Beck talked about this "self-avowed communist" he discovered in the Obama administration. He brought him up again and again and again over the next month, until his amazing late-August week-long series almost entirely about how Van Jones and Van Jones alone is proof that Obama has a goon squad of violent leftists looking to remake the country as some sort of collectivist Soviet Republic.

Here is the message machine in its platonic form: Glenn Beck introduces his audience to a group Jones once belonged to called "The Apollo Alliance" on August 24th. 72 hours later a constituent is asking his (Republican) representative if this Apollo Alliance wrote the health care bill. (http://washingtonindependent.com/56965/the-glenn-beck-effect) The Rep has no idea what the guy is talking about, but the rest of the audience certainly does ("Van Jones!" they shout).

And now, here we are. His name on an old 9/11 truther petition is dredged up. An amusing clip in which he calls Republicans assholes (but explains that he, too, is an asshole) is on CBS News. (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/03/blogs/coopscorner/entry5286699.shtml) Jake Tapper and Politico are on the case.

That is how a smear becomes a meme. Schoolhouse Rock, 2009 style.

And now Lyle is, as he will no doubt protest, "just asking a question."

Visit the link (http://gawker.com/5352832/who-is-van-jones) for videos.

Whatfur
09-05-2009, 09:31 PM
Thoughts? Should he resign or be asked to resign?


Some more videos (http://powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/09/024438.php). Just another in the cast of characters demonstrating the derisive undercurrent that permeates the Obama administration.

I'm guessing he will soon be under the bus...and should be.

Oh and also from powerline:

"The mainstream media have Obama's back. Yesterday Byron York ran a Nexis search on Van Jones and posted the resutls:

Total words about the Van Jones controversy in the New York Times: 0.
Total words about the Van Jones controversy in the Washington Post: 0.
Total words about the Van Jones controversy on NBC Nightly News: 0.
Total words about the Van Jones controversy on ABC World News: 0.
Total words about the Van Jones controversy on CBS Evening News: 0.
"

Read the rest. (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/09/024443.php)

Whatfur
09-05-2009, 09:42 PM
Victor Davis Hanson:

Well, the post-racial candidate had given us a 95% black monolithic voting pattern in the primaries against a fellow liberal candidate. Add up Rev. Wright, Father Pfleger, the clingers speech, an exasperated Bill Clinton’s assessment of “playing the race card on me”, “typical white person”, ‘wise Latina’, the Skip Gates mess, the Van Jones’ white polluters, the satraps like Gov. Patterson and Reps. Rangel and Watson reverting to blatantly racist scapegoating, and so on.

I fear that this is the most polarizing administration we have seen in matters of race since the 1920s. If those around Obama, and his supporters in Congress, had just substituted the word “black” each time they have angrily invoked the word “white”, they would have been branded abject racists.

How strange that we now learn of Van Jones’s long record of venom, but are told that he did not really mean it, and that the White House was unaware of these statements. Yet we know that Jones was selected because of, not despite, his provocations. Cf. Obama honcho Valerie Jarrett’s ecstasy: “Oooh. Van Jones, alright! So, Van Jones. We were so delighted to be able to recruit him into the White House. We were watching him, uh, really, he’s not that old, for as long as he’s been active out in Oakland. And all the creative ideas he has. And so now, we have captured that. And we have all that energy in the White House.[emphasis added]”

bjkeefe
09-05-2009, 10:23 PM
Yesterday Byron York ran a Nexis search ...

Byron York? Oh, that Byron York (http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/24666.html).

kidneystones
09-06-2009, 01:32 AM
Van Jones (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/09/06/van_jones_resigns.html?hpid=topnews) joins Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers and Tony Rezko under the bus.

The only question is how much longer George W. Obama can count on the support of his former fellow-travelers. When folks talked about the stealth Manchurian candidate, few suspected that the 'I've got a bracelet, too' might actually be an agent of big pharma (http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/08/10/pharma/), not the far-left.

Dems have control and can't govern. How long till Josh Marshall and Yglesias decide it's time to throw President Can't Lead under the same bus?

We're going to find out.

kidneystones
09-06-2009, 01:43 AM
Considering the fact that most MSM outlets refused to explain (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/The-Van-Jones-non-feeding-non-frenzy-57271402.html) to the American public that a 9/11 Truther and self-confessed communist had bypassed the selection process to take a place in the administration of 'government is your friend', the story has got to come as quite a shock.

Kudos to 'Media watchdog' ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/06/van-jones-resigns/) for managing to explain Jones' resignation without a single mention of Jones' history as a 9/11 truther.

The AP reports that after weeks of constant attacks by the right wing, Van Jones has resigned as Special Advisor for Green Jobs at the Council on Environmental Quality. Below is the letter he sent to chair Nancy Sutley:

I am resigning my post at the Council on Environmental Quality, effective today.

On the eve of historic fights for health care and clean energy, opponents of reform have mounted a vicious smear campaign against me. They are using lies and distortions to distract and divide.

I have been inundated with calls - from across the political spectrum - urging me to “stay and fight.”

But I came here to fight for others, not for myself. I cannot in good conscience ask my colleagues to expend precious time and energy defending or explaining my past. We need all hands on deck, fighting for the future.

It has been a great honor to serve my country and my President in this capacity. I thank everyone who has offered support and encouragement. I am proud to have been able to make a contribution to the clean energy future. I will continue to do so, in the months and years ahead.

On July 23rd, Glenn Beck began his crusade against Van Jones, calling him “a communist-anarchist radical.” He went on to rail against Jones approximately 20 times on Fox News in the past couple of months. Last Friday, Beck cited “former black nationalist, avowed communist Van Jones” as an example of “the true danger” of Obama’s “czars.” Prior to joining the administration, Jones had co-founded Color of Change, an organization that successfully convinced 57 advertisers to drop Beck’s program in just a matter of weeks after Beck called Obama a “racist.”

In recent days, Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN) called on Jones to resign, and Sen. Kit Bond (R-MO) called for a congressional hearing to investigate him.

Hilarious!

kezboard
09-06-2009, 03:04 AM
I don't get it. Is Obama radical and dangerous, or just the same as Bush?

kezboard
09-06-2009, 03:04 AM
This is probably the dumbest thing that's happened all year. Jesus Christ.

EDIT: OK, I retract that. I wasn't aware that Jones had signed a truther petition in 2004. In my opinion, that's absolutely something to resign over. Whether or not he really believed in 2004 (it was just a "symbolic belief" or he didn't know or whatever) or believes it now, it doesn't matter, because trutherism is unforgivably stupid. Now, please, Republicans, expel all the birthers in your ranks.

However. Glenn Beck having an influence on the White House or on anything important at all is the dumbest thing that happened all year. Furthermore, those videos posted on Powerline (in that link from Whatfur) are sort of not very shocking. In the first one he suggested that Bush's suggestion to drill for oil in Alaska, offshore, etc., to solve our energy problem, made him look like a crackhead looking for just a little more. The crackhead impersonation was pretty bad, but give me a break, by 2008 everyone in America had their own take on that little hunched-over heh-heh-heh thing, just like by 2000 everyone had perfected their finger-wagging "I did not have sexual relations with that woman". The second video was Van Jones saying something TOTALLY OBVIOUS: polluting businesses generally owned by white people, as well as environmental organizations dominated by white people, often don't take into account how what they do affects people of color. Getting all huffy and offended about this is just a way to play the "race card" card. The third one is also pretty innocuous except for the "lynching with the American flag" business, which was just a dumb metaphor, so chill out. Van Jones is a guy who has strong opinions and sometimes says things that are in fairly poor taste. So?

kidneystones
09-06-2009, 03:21 AM
the integrity.

Get used to it.

kezboard
09-06-2009, 03:28 AM
So he's pretending to be a radical, presumably because the crazy leftist demographic is so vast and it actually really helps him to have Glenn Beck spinning absurd conspiracies about figures in his administration, while really pursuing Bush's agenda? Would it not be easier to just push Bush's agenda, while adding that Obama speechifying magic? I mean, it almost worked for John McCain, and he's nowhere near as good at giving speeches.

And here I thought he was just a center-leftish politician with a penchant for unnecessary compromise who turned out not to be as good at governing as he is at campaigning.

kidneystones
09-06-2009, 03:34 AM
about handing out immense amounts of tax-dollars to campaign donors or buying expensive houses financed by dishonest slum-lords.

He's Anthony Robbins; and my guess is you voted for him.

And he's not done asking you for your money or your time.

Empty your pockets!

kezboard
09-06-2009, 03:56 AM
There's nothing radical about handing out immense amounts of tax-dollars to campaign donors...

No, it's in the best American tradition. I never had any illusions about Obama being anything more than a politician, so I'm not all shattered about the deal with big pharma because the messiah sold us out. We'll see if it's worth it, it almost certainly won't be, but I'm a Democrat, so I'm used to being disappointed by politicians.

But seriously, aside from that you don't like Obama, what's your point?

kidneystones
09-06-2009, 04:07 AM
here with me. Your candidate needs your money and your hand-made sign.

Your President can't govern, is dragging you deeper into debt, and deeper into the quagmire of Afghanistan. I could go on, but really why.

As for my point: my point on this thread is that the NYT, to which I subscribe, doesn't seem to have any record of Mr. Jones' career as a Truther. Do Truthers belong in government? Evidently, you believe they do.

You've all but conceded your man is an empty suit. I contend he's an empty suit who can't govern.

Go let him know you've got his back.

Send him a check while you're at it, quick!

kezboard
09-06-2009, 04:35 AM
As for my point: my point on this thread is that the NYT, to which I subscribe, doesn't seem to have any record of Mr. Jones' career as a Truther. Do Truthers belong in government? Evidently, you believe they do.

First off: Jones's career as a truther is limited to going to one march supporting an investigation into 9/11 in 2002 (reasonable) and signing one truther petition in 2004 (unforgivable). That said, maybe you didn't see my post, but I said that signing that petition is something I would have fired him over. I await your further derision.

kidneystones
09-06-2009, 04:59 AM
if that's what you're doing. 'Twas you who elected to reply.

That said, I'm compelled to compliment your candor, your judgment, and your wit. Your point about selling out to big pharma is very well made.

I've written reams, literally, about the incompetence of Bush and the bungling corrupt Republicans. IMHO, the affirmative action hire in the WH simply isn't up to the job.

Cheers.

bjkeefe
09-06-2009, 05:36 AM
I've written reams, literally, about the incompetence of Bush ...

Or so he says. But we'll never know, because every time kidley changes his meds, he deletes his old forum and blog posts.

This way, he can claim to have been opposed to something, or in support of it, as needs of the moment demand, without being forced to deal with the reality of his own past words.

Pretty funny to see him accuse others of fiddling with the record.

Whatfur
09-06-2009, 05:53 AM
Bubbye Mr. Jones.

Kez...had a nice little retort formulated for your excuse riddled post here but not worth the effort. Just another story in a long line of stories demonstrating that when this President is presented obvious choices he generally chooses badly.

So much for hope...now we just have to avoid the change his choices are are chucking us into.

kidneystones
09-06-2009, 05:57 AM
on your selfless work on behalf of bhtv deleting spam. As a person of 'principle' perhaps you'd let Brenda know that you'd like to rid yourself of your 'moderator' tag and continue your work anonymously.

As for your assertion:
Or so he says. But we'll never know, because every time kidley changes his meds, he deletes his old forum and blog posts.

This way, he can claim to have been opposed to something, or in support of it, as needs of the moment demand, without being forced to deal with the reality of his own past words.

Pretty funny to see him accuse others of fiddling with the record.

As usual, you're not just wrong, you're lying. You know full well that the reams I've written about Bush and the Republicans are, in fact, available here (http://forums.bloggingheads.tv/phorum/search.php?1,search=kidneystones,page=1,match_type =AUTHOR,match_dates=0,match_forum=ALL) on this very site. But thank you for taking the time to display your own dishonesty and contempt for accuracy so clearly.

bjkeefe
09-06-2009, 07:10 AM
on your selfless work on behalf of bhtv deleting spam. As a person of 'principle' perhaps you'd let Brenda know that you'd like to rid yourself of your 'moderator' tag and continue your work anonymously.

That'll be the day when I let an unbalanced troublemaker like you guide my decision making.

There are only a tiny handful of people who are even aware of the fact that three of the commenters on this site also delete spam, and that's thanks almost entirely to your non-stop harping on it starting nearly a year ago (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=94785#post94785), along with your allusions, hints, innuendo, and outright lies about the extent of what we "moderate." Your mewling that you're doing this for the betterment of the site is nothing short of guffaw-inducing.

The truth is, you don't like that I call you on your craziness. Further, you've got a loathing for Barack Obama that has devolved into derangement, to the point where you have asserted that I and others on this site who speak favorably of Obama are in his employ. You have accused Bob Wright of being part of this conspiracy, as well.

Can I point to examples of this behavior of yours? Not easily (although it is possible, if you really insist -- the concept of "deletion" online is not as final as you may think). That brings us to our next point.

As for your assertion:

Or so he says. But we'll never know, because every time kidley changes his meds, he deletes his old forum and blog posts.

This way, he can claim to have been opposed to something, or in support of it, as needs of the moment demand, without being forced to deal with the reality of his own past words.

Pretty funny to see him accuse others of fiddling with the record.

As usual, you're not just wrong, you're lying. You know full well that the reams I've written about Bush and the Republicans are, in fact, available here (http://forums.bloggingheads.tv/phorum/search.php?1,search=kidneystones,page=1,match_type =AUTHOR,match_dates=0,match_forum=ALL) on this site. But thank you for taking the time to display your own dishonesty and contempt for accuracy so clearly.

Sorry, no. You've at least twice deleted just about all of your posts on this site since it changed over to vBulletin from Phorum. You've also deleted practically every post on your own blog (http://rattlesnakepoint.com/blog/blog.html), along with all of the comments left by others. On this site alone, that's a total of something like 500 posts, covering most of the past two years.

I've said several times, when asked by others if you were always like you are now, that there was once a time when you weren't completely insane. I've replied that your single-minded hatred for Obama, paranoia about your perception of his "agents," and your habit of believing (or at least passing along with approval) everything you read on wingnut blogs and websites is a fairly recent phenomenon.

The one hope that you're not completely gone is that you evidently have these moments of clarity where you're apparently embarrassed by the smears, lies, and hysteria you've posted -- about Teh Moderators!!!1!, about Bob Wright, about Obama, etc. -- and so you attempt to scrub them from the record. But there is no denying the truth of what I said: You've deleted almost all of what you've posted over the past couple of years; i.e., since your descent into madness.

bjkeefe
09-06-2009, 07:34 AM
This is probably the dumbest thing that's happened all year. Jesus Christ.

EDIT: OK, I retract that. I wasn't aware that Jones had signed a truther petition in 2004. In my opinion, that's absolutely something to resign over. Whether or not he really believed in 2004 (it was just a "symbolic belief" or he didn't know or whatever) or believes it now, it doesn't matter, because trutherism is unforgivably stupid. Now, please, Republicans, expel all the birthers in your ranks.

Kind of a moot point now, but for the sake of the man's reputation, you might want to look a little more closely into these truther accusations. See this (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=128614#post128614), for example.

Also worth a look -- again, so that your last memory of the man shouldn't be the one Glenn Beck would like you to hold -- is Alex Pareene's post, "Who is Van Jones?" reproduced above (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=128844#post128844), if you haven't already read it.

On the truther thing, my feeling is that term isn't specific enough to have much meaning. If you mean Alex Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_%28radio_host%29)-level ravings about Bush directing the CIA to plant thermite in the Twin Towers, that's one thing. If, one the other hand, you believed in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks that further investigation was warranted, that's quite another, and in this case, you'd have to call a strong majority of the population "truthers."

graz
09-06-2009, 07:36 AM
The one hope that you're not completely gone is that you evidently have these moments of clarity where you're apparently embarrassed by the smears, lies, and hysteria you've posted -- about Teh Moderators!!!1!, about Bob Wright, about Obama, etc. -- and so you attempt to scrub them from the record. But there is no denying the truth of what I said: You've deleted almost all of what you've posted over the past couple of years; i.e., since your descent into madness.

I see a burgeoning career opportunity in online psych diagnosis and treatment.
Perhaps I should consult with Ocean before moving forward. In meatspace they say acceptance of the need for treatment is the first step. Here in the inter-tubes the healer can solicit the patient.
But I must say, I will choose a more compassionate method than you're exhibiting with kidneystones. I'll call my treatment method: hope and change.

bjkeefe
09-06-2009, 07:55 AM
... so that your last memory of the man shouldn't be the one Glenn Beck would like you to hold ...

Speaking of whom, check this: TBogg's "Glenn Beck Rules Our World (http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/09/05/glenn-beck-rules-our-world/)."

I think the picture is correct.

I wonder who will be next.

kidneystones
09-06-2009, 08:18 AM
Thank you for confirming just how deeply invested you are in your tiny title. That, too, is now a matter of record.

There are only a tiny handful of people who are even aware of the fact that three of the commenters on this site also delete spam,


You're breathtakingly dense, really. Do you understand that every single visitor to the site saw 'Moderator' beneath the posts of you, tweedle-dum and dumber? Every single visitor and potential investor saw bhtv through the prism of your vendettas, poorly-framed bombast and insult. Remarkable. Even at this very late stage of the game you're either too obtuse or too dishonest to recognize that appearances actually matter.

I could delete a thousand posts and it wouldn't make a shred of difference to this site. The record would still be clear: I don't like you. I don't like Obama and I don't like Bush. Twin, GC, Clay, Graz; they don't worry too much about my posts. Not you. You got yourself a real complex.

See if you can go a whole day without reading one of my posts. Maybe, an hour. I doubt you'll manage; but I wish you a speedy and successful recovery.

kidneystones
09-06-2009, 08:29 AM
even after I'd just included you among the normal ones.

Nice touch.

bjkeefe
09-06-2009, 08:30 AM
Thank you for confirming just how deeply invested you are in your tiny title.

No, sorry. Your delusions have led you astray once again. I have no "investment" in my "title." The only thing at play here is my unwillingness to knuckle under to the temper tantrums and obsessions of you -- a sad little man with a big lying mouth.

And try to keep your story straight, if only within the same post, will you? If this is such a "tiny title," why have you been howling about it for nearly a year now?

I could delete a thousand posts and it wouldn't make a shred of difference to this site.

Oh, I don't know. I think every single post of yours that you delete makes the site measurably better. In any case, thanks for acknowledging that you do, in fact, delete large amounts of what you have posted earlier.

The record would still be clear: I don't like you.

First honest thing you've typed in two years. A small step, but congratulations.

Also, I think this helps everyone else see what drives this MODERATOR!!!1! obsession of yours now, so again, thanks.

graz
09-06-2009, 08:32 AM
even after I'd just included you among the normal ones.

Nice touch.
Twin, GC, Clay, Graz; they don't worry too much about my posts. Not you. You got yourself a real complex.

Damn... I so wanted normalcy.

kidneystones
09-06-2009, 08:36 AM
You always do.

Looks like I hit a nerve. Or a few.

Enjoy echo-city.

kidneystones
09-06-2009, 08:39 AM
stand a better chance than some.

You better go now. Your pal needs a hug.

bjkeefe
09-06-2009, 08:44 AM
You always do.

No, kid, your ego has misled you again. I don't care about you much at all. I'll respond when you post smears and lies, and I enjoy pointing out the more hilarious bits in your ravings. And when you get into one of your frenzies, like right now, I enjoy poking you. That's about it.

Enjoy echo-city.

What's this? Yet another drama queen moment where you storm off in a huff? I can only hope it lasts longer than the previous one. (Your cycles are shortening -- have you noticed? You should probably ask a doctor about that.)

harkin
09-06-2009, 12:16 PM
Another one under the bus.

Hilarious watching the 'conservative, corporate' media scramble as they report on the resignation of a guy they never vetted. B York's stats show that the msm is still firmly in Obama's pocket.

Maybe Van Jones can write a letter to himself on how he can improve and help support the president.

It's been a good week, first the checker at Whole Foods saying "what boycott?" and now the guy gunning for Beck shooting himself with his own words. 'Outsmarted by Glenn Beck' ought to look good on his resume'.

DenvilleSteve
09-06-2009, 01:18 PM
Another one under the bus.

Hilarious watching the 'conservative, corporate' media scramble as they report on the resignation of a guy they never vetted. B York's stats show that the msm is still firmly in Obama's pocket.

Maybe Van Jones can write a letter to himself on how he can improve and help support the president.

It's been a good week, first the checker at Whole Foods saying "what boycott?" and now the guy gunning for Beck shooting himself with his own words. 'Outsmarted by Glenn Beck' ought to look good on his resume'.

Great fun, isn't it? Come see the affect of the boycott spurred on by the mighty HuffPo.

Jones did seem like an honest advocate however. I would have supported Obama keeping the guy in his administration. African Americans should have their people in government as much as other groups.

How is this for a grand alliance? Rural people support what urban blacks want. In return, urban blacks support the government allowing people to opt out of participating and paying for the majority of government programs.

Lyle
09-06-2009, 01:39 PM
You haven't seen all the youtube clips of him yet have you (maybe by now you have)? The Left tried to shrug this off and now has gotten steamrolled. This was tin ear hire by Obama. Obviously this guy was a sop to the far Left, but he should have never been hired.

Lyle
09-06-2009, 01:41 PM
What about his only white kids shoot up schools comment? What do you think about that?

DenvilleSteve
09-06-2009, 02:00 PM
What about his only white kids shoot up schools comment? What do you think about that?

I think it is true to a degree. A lot of kids dont get to play sports in school the way they used to. Which reduces their access to social settings. It must be terribly difficult to attend the government run schools these days. I would expect more kids to snap or go wildly off course.

Lyle
09-06-2009, 02:48 PM
Nonsense man.

kezboard
09-06-2009, 04:44 PM
I hadn't seen the clip, I just watched it, and it seems to me that he kind of has a point. Everyone obsesses about the decline of the black family and such, the criminality of young black men, the "inner city", etc., but nobody thinks of it as a race related problem when all those white kids shoot up their schools. I'm sure people have made this point before. I know the charge on Van Jones is that he's "obsessed with race", but I don't really get what that means. This seems like kind of another excuse to get the vapors.

Lyle
09-06-2009, 07:07 PM
I think saying white only or black only is problematic. Inner cities do have problems because murder rates are disproportionate and disproportionately committed by black men (not to mention the victims are disproportionately black men).

He's also wrong to claim shooting any give place a white male problem when the black men have gone and shot up church congregations and whatever else. The Virginia Tech mass murderer was also Asian. It simply has nothing to do with race, but certain men losing it and deciding to shoot up some venue that is a part of their lives, like the school they attend.

Starwatcher162536
09-06-2009, 08:03 PM
I think the right is running into the boy who cried wolf problem.

Even when the right finds something with some actual meat on Obama, it's hard for many to get the motivation to pay attention, because of all the craziness that has been put out there on asinine topics, by people like Glenn,Rush,Hannity, Malkin,etc.

This reminds me alot about the Anthropic Global Warming debates, its just hard to motivate yourself to read through the articles that think of it largely as myth or flawed science (Which you really should do!), when in the past 99% of it has turned out to be bullshit.

Wonderment
09-06-2009, 11:39 PM
Winner! Chris Bond.

Senator Christopher S. Bond (R-Mo.) urged Congress to investigate Jones's "fitness"....writing in an open letter, "Can the American people trust a senior White House official that is so cavalier in his association with such radical and repugnant sentiments?"

Sen. Bond's party had senior White House officials, including the President, VP, Sec. Def. Sec/State, et al, who had radical and repugnant sentiments regarding torture, abduction, secret prisons and preemptive wars to spread democracy to an imaginary Axis of Evil.

Senior White House officials embraced completely cuckoo ideas about creationism, homosexuality, global warming and a host of other issues, and Bond has the audacity to go after Jones for "radical sentiments?"

Give me a friggin' break!

Whatfur
09-08-2009, 02:04 PM
New York. (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Why-did-the-press-ignore-the-Van-Jones-scandal_-8210602-57658222.html)

JoeK
09-08-2009, 02:28 PM
Jones did seem like an honest advocate however. I would have supported Obama keeping the guy in his administration. African Americans should have their people in government as much as other groups.

Races don't have representatives in US government. It's not in the Constitution.

JoeK
09-08-2009, 02:48 PM
New York. (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Why-did-the-press-ignore-the-Van-Jones-scandal_-8210602-57658222.html)

MSM couldn't make up their mind - whether to squeal like pigs or shout "Yo mama" at American people, so they stayed silent. Next time they should try doing both.

In all seriousness, the state of contemporary American liberalism renders the whole political system dysfunctional. Liberals persuaded themselves the opposition is evil and stupid and are now incapable of being analytical. Their own moral outrage turns liberals into some dumb mfers.

bjkeefe
09-08-2009, 04:04 PM
Think again. (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2009/09/welp-this-is-moving-forward-just-about.html)

Whatfur
09-08-2009, 05:15 PM
Think again. (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2009/09/welp-this-is-moving-forward-just-about.html)

Kind of seems like a good idea seeing as so far it looks like there has been very little vetting being done....kind of like the MSM not vetting of Obama prior to the election.

Oops another one???? (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/08/obama-nominee-omitted-ties-to-biotech//print/)

Starwatcher162536
09-08-2009, 08:04 PM
I don't see the problem....

I thought the medias job was to look for dirt, how else would you keep the people in gov't honest?

bjkeefe
09-08-2009, 08:11 PM
I don't see the problem....

I thought the medias job was to look for dirt, how else would you keep the people in gov't honest?

Depends what you mean by dirt. My impression of the Van Jones brouhaha was that it was hysteria over trivia. I heard nothing to make me think he shouldn't have kept his job. From a couple of quick reads, I am of the impression that whatever the wingnuts are howling about when it comes to Cass Sunstein, it's equally stupid.

I think there is a witch hunt mentality among the right-wing media, and they don't really care about the quality of people in government, but only about finding stuff they can feed to the mouth-breathers, no matter how much they have to twist it.

kidneystones
09-08-2009, 08:34 PM
The self-created kind.

JoeK writes...

Astute observation, but not, IMHO, restricted to one political party. My own reflexive dislike for Bush blinded me to the possibility that the surge just might work. You'll find individuals here who view reality through the prism of reflexive anti-Republicanism. They're blind, but far from silent.

The current administration can't be all bad. But when the NYT refuses to make any mention of the story until it's over, the failure is as much one of complacency/apathy.

Ayers/Wright/Rezko are not 'right-wing' fabrications. They're real people who helped and promoted the current leader. The fact that he used them to promote his own ambitions doesn't change their long history together.

Jones is of this class; a real Obama insider. Hence, the absence of any background check. Hell, Jones wasn't even asked to fill out the documentation.

Truth might have come out. Couldn't have that.

bjkeefe
09-08-2009, 11:07 PM
I think there is a witch hunt mentality among the right-wing media, and they don't really care about the quality of people in government, but only about finding stuff they can feed to the mouth-breathers, no matter how much they have to twist it.

David Weigel thinks so, too: "... a witch hunt egged on by sloppy reporting."

Well, we're talking about the rePubOLITICO, so I think we have to interpret "sloppy" here as "transparently carrying water for Glenn Beck, so transparently that their piece is easily ripped to shreds (http://washingtonindependent.com/57977/when-is-a-czar-not-a-czar)."

(h/t: Jim Newell (http://wonkette.com/410955/the-politico-discovers-some-major-news-thing-called-the-czar-revolt))

bjkeefe
09-08-2009, 11:09 PM
Ayers/Wright/Rezko ...

Why'd you bother deleting all your old posts if you're just going to keep typing out these same names again? Need the exercise?

kezboard
09-08-2009, 11:24 PM
The Virginia Tech mass murderer was also Asian. It simply has nothing to do with race, but certain men losing it and deciding to shoot up some venue that is a part of their lives, like the school they attend.

That's actually sort of the point I was trying to make with my comment. We have two different phenomena: violence among "inner-city" young black men related to drugs or gangs or whatever, and violence among suburban young white men at schools. The first phenomenon is always talked about in racial terms -- the decline of the black family, a "culture of poverty", the pernicious influence of hip-hop on African Americans, etc. -- even though this kind of crime certainly involves other people as well. Even the phrase "inner city" is basically a euphemism for "black ghetto", and everyone knows it. The second phenomenon *isn't* really talked about in racial terms. Although most of the people involved in school shootings have been white males, it's never spoken about as a problem of the white community. This is indicative of a sort of essentializing when it comes to African Americans -- you know, when black people have problems or there are problems in black communities, they're Black Problems, but when white people have problems, they're just problems. Of course I don't know, because I didn't see the whole speech, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is what Van Jones was trying to get at -- I mean, it's a fairly standard way to illustrate how unconscious racism colors media coverage and public debate about the problems we have.

themightypuck
09-09-2009, 04:20 AM
I think you meant Victor Davis Hanson.