PDA

View Full Version : Daily Show vs. Death Panels


graz
08-21-2009, 10:25 AM
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/246932/thu-august-20-2009-betsy-mccaughey

Cut to the first break for the start of the interview with Betsey McCaughey.
The balance is continued on the website.
She sure is good at what she does. But what she does is not good.

bjkeefe
08-21-2009, 02:46 PM
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/246932/thu-august-20-2009-betsy-mccaughey

Cut to the first break for the start of the interview with Betsey McCaughey.
The balance is continued on the website.
She sure is good at what she does. But what she does is not good.

I only watched the part that was on TV, and not the whole interview on the Web, but at least based on that, I disagree that McCaughey came off as "good at what she does." She seemed like a complete crank -- unable to find the pages she was looking for in her binder, insisting things meant something different right after Jon Stewart made her read them out loud, constantly mugging to the crowd, and displaying a stare-y, overly tightly wound affect suggesting she was just barely medicated enough to keep from falling on the ground and howling.

Granted, I was thoroughly predisposed to dislike her, but it's hard to see how very many people who watch The Daily Show aren't going to have about the same reaction. She wasn't even unlikable in the paid shill way, the way, say, Bill Kristol comes off when he goes on. She presented as nothing so much as a conspiracy theorist who had finally, for the first time in her life, gotten hold of the microphone, the kind of nut who isn't even worth laughing at, but just makes everyone look around for the ushers to bring her stream of babble to an end.

graz
08-21-2009, 03:05 PM
I'm with you on all those points, yet... History has proven that the impression that she leaves with the typical daily show viewer is less a concern than her effectiveness at framing the debate in the greater MSM. I am under the impression that she was one of the originators of the meme, subsequently translated into Alaskan, "death panel."
On last night's show she failed the veracity challenge on every point. But when has that prevented the truth from being highjacked and exploited for obstruction and deflection.
Stewart stopped short of calling her a liar. I guess with the thought in mind that he would allow her to hang herself. But I was left with the impression that she would play well with those predisposed to latch on to what their team member is telling them to think, as opposed to examining the facts and deciding accordingly. Jon also used ambiguous language regarding the "interpretation" of the bill. He didn't pin her, instead she wriggled away.

bjkeefe
08-21-2009, 03:26 PM
I'm with you on all those points, yet... History has proven that the impression that she leaves with the typical daily show viewer is less a concern than her effectiveness at framing the debate in the greater MSM.

Oh, sure. But that latter damage is already long since done. I only cared about how she might play to The Daily Show audience.

I am under the impression that she was one of the originators of the meme, subsequently translated into Alaskan, "death panel."

Yep. And she was one of the originators of talking points (read: lies) against health care reform in the early '90s (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2009/02/48-hours-follow-up.html), too.

On last night's show she failed the veracity challenge on every point. But when has that prevented the truth from being highjacked and exploited for obstruction and deflection.

Never, as long as it's right-wing lies being pushed.

Stewart stopped short of calling her a liar. I guess with the thought in mind that he would allow her to hang herself. But I was left with the impression that she would play well with those predisposed to latch on to what their team member is telling them to think, as opposed to examining the facts and deciding accordingly. Jon also used ambiguous language regarding the "interpretation" of the bill. He didn't pin her, instead she wriggled away.

Yes, I got the sense that he was using the "keep feeding them rope" approach, too. I am guessing he thought being more confrontational wouldn't have worked in this case -- who needs another shouting match about health care reform?

I grant it's possible in principle that Stewart could have made her look worse. Since he didn't force her to break down and admit that she was nothing but a lying wingnut mouthpiece, there was at least theoretically room for improvement. But as far as his audience goes, I'd be willing to bet that at the very least, she won no new converts, and almost certainly caused at least a few people who haven't been paying much attention to realize just how deranged the opponents of health care reform can be.

graz
08-21-2009, 03:55 PM
If I were simply grading her performance, I would say fail, with a few points given for unintentional laughter. I ought to have mentioned the context of "good" in my original post. Unfortunately she is better than good at what she does and last night was a mere sideshow. Perhaps no converts were won, though the smokescreen is still in effect.

bjkeefe
08-21-2009, 04:09 PM
If I were simply grading her performance, I would say fail, with a few points given for unintentional laughter. I ought to have mentioned the context of "good" in my original post. Unfortunately she is better than good at what she does and last night was a mere sideshow. Perhaps no converts were won, though the smokescreen is still in effect.

Agreed. In the larger arena, she unfortunately and mysteriously still has credibility and her tactics are undeniably effective.

claymisher
08-21-2009, 04:14 PM
Agreed. In the larger arena, she unfortunately and mysteriously still has credibility and her tactics are undeniably effective.

I couldn't stand to watch the whole thing, but on the whole I think she made a big mistake going on tv. Before she was this faceless authority out in the ether. Now she's just another troll on tv.

bjkeefe
08-21-2009, 04:27 PM
I couldn't stand to watch the whole thing, but on the whole I think she made a big mistake going on tv. Before she was this faceless authority out in the ether. Now she's just another troll on tv.

I take your point, but on the other hand, how many trolls on TV still make bank and get listened to all the time?

nikkibong
08-21-2009, 04:52 PM
Coverage from the indispensible James Fallows:

http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/08/mccaughey_on_the_daily_show.php

bjkeefe
08-23-2009, 12:50 AM
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/246932/thu-august-20-2009-betsy-mccaughey

Cut to the first break for the start of the interview with Betsey McCaughey. [...]

Some useful background on Betsy McCaughey here (http://jmhm.livejournal.com/1781035.html) (via (http://www.eschatonblog.com/2009/08/late-night_6673.html)).

graz
08-23-2009, 11:37 AM
I was like, oh my god...fuhgedaboudit... dude
Thanks, she is the real McCoy.

bjkeefe
08-24-2009, 10:19 PM
K-Drum was not at all happy (http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2009/08/quote-day-4) (via gil mann (http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/site/comments/reports_of_my_death_panels_have_been_greatly_exagg erated/)).

At that same post, gil expresses some dissatisfaction with our Bob.

Whatfur
11-17-2009, 08:33 AM
graz! This was like the biggest contribution you have made here since my arrival over a year and a half ago. Thanks! For you to provide backup for my disputing your "medicare fraud" fix from the other day is also very large of you.

Other than that...only a couple things...

My God John, shut the hell up and let the woman speak!

and

All you need is fur. Fur is all you need.


[added] Now that I have read Bong's contribution. Seriously I wrote the above before reading the Fallow's piece, but please take note that where I wanted to hear the guest who is the expert... who lives and breaths the topic daily, expound...1/3 of Fallow's points had to do with John Stewart letting us know what he thinks. That should tell you something.

graz
11-17-2009, 10:25 AM
...only a couple things...


graz! This was like the biggest contribution you have made here since my arrival over a year and a half ago.
Thanks for the incisive critique.

All you need is fur. Fur is all you need.
Continuing to refer to yourself in the third person is becoming.

[added] Now that I have read Bong's contribution. Seriously I wrote the above before reading the Fallow's piece, but please take note that where I wanted to hear the guest who is the expert... who lives and breaths the topic daily, expound...1/3 of Fallow's points had to do with John Stewart letting us know what he thinks. That should tell you something.
That is some tasty word salad!

Thanks! For you to provide backup for my disputing your "medicare fraud" fix from the other day is also very large of you.
You haven't disputed a thing. Your obstructionism was relayed from Hewitt. Your typing skills are not in question.

My God John, shut the hell up and let the woman speak!

There have been no shortage of venues for her propaganda... paid shill(ing), etc... Stewart simply gave her the chance to be flustered by her own words. You ought to feel a kinship with her in that regard. And as you hold no opinions that aren't sent from talking points central, who are you shilling for exactly?

Whatfur
11-17-2009, 01:22 PM
Thanks for the incisive critique.

Nothing gets by you.

Continuing to refer to yourself in the third person is becoming.

Oh come on graz, admit it, you have been singing that in your head since you read it. "All you need is fur, fur...fur is all you need". ;o)

That is some tasty word salad!

I hope you chewed the arugula long enough to extract all the vitamins it contained.

You haven't disputed a thing. Your obstructionism was relayed from Hewitt. Your typing skills are not in question.

Maybe you missed my response to Bong in the other thread calling your attempt at deception concerning where the Medicare savings was coming from a "fraud". Pretty sure I cannot dispute it more than that. I think 1% is what was just quoted in this video. Nice try though.

There have been no shortage of venues for her propaganda... paid shill(ing), etc... Stewart simply gave her the chance to be flustered by her own words.

Go watch your video again, I realize some of it was attempts at wit by Stewart, he was seldom successful...he was more successful in looking more like someone who didn't really want to hear what his guest had to say and was more interested in hearing himself talk and call her opinion hyperbole.

You ought to feel a kinship with her in that regard. And as you hold no opinions that aren't sent from talking points central, who are you shilling for exactly?
Well, handle....err graz, I used to pull down a million+ a year from Haliburton just for posting on blogs like this but I have moved on and now work for United Healthcare systems, Baxter Scientific, and I receive donations from the vast majority of doctors in this country (oh and a little retainer from the RNC).