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View Full Version : Gotta give it to the french


JonIrenicus
07-13-2009, 04:59 AM
No one tells them to be discreet.

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=ccb316e0-009d-498d-9d84-7b2e729657d7

Obama was slick with his, maintaining plausible deniability to all but every guy on this earth.

But Sarkozy? The perks of French expectations.

Francoamerican
07-13-2009, 01:19 PM
No one tells them to be discreet.

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=ccb316e0-009d-498d-9d84-7b2e729657d7

Obama was slick with his, maintaining plausible deniability to all but every guy on this earth.

But Sarkozy? The perks of French expectations.

Expectations? What do you expect? Sarkozy married an Italian ex-model (la bella Carla) who posed nude in her wilder, younger days. She also speaks four languages and quotes poets and philosophers.

I wonder what the American response would be to a first lady known in all her intimate details?

bjkeefe
07-13-2009, 01:48 PM
Expectations? What do you expect? Sarkozy married an Italian ex-model (la bella Carla) who posed nude in her wilder, younger days. She also speaks four languages and quotes poets and philosophers.

I wonder what the American response would be to a first lady known in all her intimate details?

Heh. Given that her utterance of seven one-syllable words ("for the first time in my life") caused the explosion of the heads of at least 20% of the population and 95% of the MSM, I can't even imagine.

Unless, of course (http://www.google.com/search?q=iokiyar), the First Lady was a Republican.

JoeK
07-13-2009, 02:38 PM
She also speaks four languages and quotes poets and philosophers.
Yikes! Makes me shudder just reading about it.

uncle ebeneezer
07-13-2009, 05:04 PM
And don't forget the way that Theresa Heinz-Kerry was treated for being attractive and having outspoken opinions. It's interesting to look at the difference between first-ladies between parties (at least in recent years): Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton, Theresa Heinz-Kerry, Elizabeth Edwards vs. Laura Bush, Barbara Bush, Nancy Reagan, Cindy McCain etc. To use a bastardization of the old "beer" analogy, I certainly know which group I'd rather have a glass of wine with (and interesting/intelligent conversation.)

Francoamerican
07-14-2009, 06:40 AM
Yikes! Makes me shudder just reading about it.

Some people have shudders; others have frissons. I suppose the difference in perception comes down to the difference between civilizations. Americans are pragmatists and prudes. The French are idealists and sensualists.

nikkibong
07-14-2009, 09:58 AM
These kinds of national characterological generalizations are silly, and bear little relation to the truth. Individual differences are much more important. (i've known plenty of prudish French people and sensual Americans.)

graz
07-14-2009, 11:11 AM
Counter your general characterization:
I will revel in a Nicoise salad at Cafe Claude in honor of Bastille Day (idealistic, no?). And since I haven't shaved or bathed for days, maybe I can attract and deceive a Francophile woman into succumbing to my mock Gallic charms in furtherance of some horizontal mambo (sensualistic, yes?).

Francoamerican
07-14-2009, 11:59 AM
These kinds of national characterological generalizations are silly, and bear little relation to the truth. Individual differences are much more important. (i've known plenty of prudish French people and sensual Americans.)

And this kind of generalization about a generalization meant humoristically is silly too. But then pragmatic prudes generally lack irony. Did you even read the post I was responding to?

Please remind me that the US isn't a nation of prudes the next time one of your pathetic politicians sparks a media circus when caught with his pants down.

Francoamerican
07-14-2009, 12:04 PM
Counter your general characterization:
I will revel in a Nicoise salad at Cafe Claude in honor of Bastille Day (idealistic, no?). And since I haven't shaved or bathed for days, maybe I can attract and deceive a Francophile woman into succumbing to my mock Gallic charms in furtherance of some horizontal mambo (sensualistic, yes?).

I doubt if the average unkempt, overweight American male with the mind of a somewhat retarded sixteen-year-old could seduce anyone, but maybe your mock Gallic charms will succeed where your national traits fail.

graz
07-14-2009, 12:19 PM
Touche... or touchy?
Viva La France:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_8dafLxLcI&feature=related

claymisher
07-14-2009, 12:22 PM
This is moronic. Let's give The Onion the last word:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34198

Francoamerican
07-14-2009, 12:34 PM
Touche... or touchy?
Viva La France:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_8dafLxLcI&feature=related

La Marseillaise is politically incorrect ...embarrassing lyrics, you know: "Water the soil with the blood of our ennemies...."etc. Most people refuse to sing the words. But thanks anyway Graz. I am sure you only meant to convey your profound love of the French by repeating stereotypes that were already out of date in 1950. That includes the Gallic lover.

By the way, idealism and sensualism mean more than love of ideas and love of sex; just as pragmatism and prudery mean more than love of practical results and aversion to sex. But then I happen to know something about both the French and Americans....

graz
07-14-2009, 01:13 PM
Perhaps you think you know my intentions? I'm not certain myself... But likely hoped for something typical from you. You only disappointed to the extent that there was no elaboration on the depth of meaning underlying your insult... Please do go on about prudery vs. sensuality or idealism. Get into the weeds, we can take it and even understand it.
Perhaps you prickliness won't allow for an in depth exposition. But isn't posting an attempt to persuade as much as satisfy your obsession with trumpeting the French way over all others?
Not to suggest that I know what is best for you, but how about playing a new tune, at least for the audience?

Francoamerican
07-14-2009, 01:26 PM
Perhaps you think you know my intentions? I'm not certain myself... But fully hoped for something typical from you. You only disappointed to the extent that there was no elaboration on the depth of meaning underlying your insult... Please do go on about prudery vs. sensuality or idealism. Get into the weeds, we can take it and even understand it.
Perhaps you prickliness won't allow for an in depth exposition. But isn't posting an attempt to persuade as much as satisfy your obsession with trumpeting the French way over all others?
Not to suggest that I know what is best for you, but how about playing a new tune, at least for the audience?


What insult Graz? I was simply responding in kind to your platitudes. Maybe you should go back and read the original post to which I was responding. As for playing a new tune, why should I waste my time with you?

graz
07-14-2009, 01:47 PM
I surrender regarding the specific point about the first response.
Which then defaulted to the usual broad nationalistic assessments you favor.

I'm worth a response because:

I'm good enough
I'm smart enough
and, doggonit
people like me

Happy Bastille Day anyway AmeriFrench

nikkibong
07-14-2009, 10:39 PM
Yes, and Connecticut-born American francophiles are well-known to be insecure pricks who mask their feelings of inferiority with hyperbolic praise of all things Gallic - and therefore, allegedly themselves.

Give it a rest. I've never met a real French person as embarassingly nationalistic as yourself.

Francoamerican
07-15-2009, 01:18 PM
Yes, and Connecticut-born American francophiles are well-known to be insecure pricks who mask their feelings of inferiority with hyperbolic praise of all things Gallic - and therefore, allegedly themselves.

Give it a rest. I've never met a real French person as embarassingly nationalistic as yourself.

Poor naive little Niki, did I hurt your patriotic feelings? Or is Niki just too stupid to understand the meaning of prude?

If you could cite one of my postings that reveals my French nationalism I would be grateful.

Francoamerican
07-15-2009, 01:31 PM
I surrender regarding the specific point about the first response.
Which then defaulted to the usual broad nationalistic assessments you favor.

I'm worth a response because:

I'm good enough
I'm smart enough
and, doggonit
people like me

Happy Bastille Day anyway AmeriFrench

Thank you, but I couldn't care less.

"Broad nationalistic response that I favor".... I would like an example please.

graz
07-15-2009, 04:15 PM
You are inscrutable. Of course that is in keeping with the French tradition (common knowledge)... Until you correct me and simply dismiss my take as an American failure of perception. Or if you take the last word... I imagine you'll smugly proclaim my ignorance, etc.
As an American I'm easily amused (a national trait-indisputable fact), but for a half-baguette Frechman you are a humorless stick in the mud. Not at all in keeping with the French tradition (I know these things-because I say so). RSVP or ignore, I could care more... or less.

Francoamerican
07-16-2009, 05:04 AM
You are inscrutable. Of course that is in keeping with the French tradition (common knowledge)... Until you correct me and simply dismiss my take as an American failure of perception. Or if you take the last word... I imagine you'll smugly proclaim my ignorance, etc.
As an American I'm easily amused (a national trait-indisputable fact), but for a half-baguette Frechman you are a humorless stick in the mud. Not at all in keeping with the French tradition (I know these things-because I say so). RSVP or ignore, I could care more... or less.

There is nothing inscutable in my remark. Describing the citizens of nations with terms such as "idealists," "pragmatists," "sensualists," prudes" implies no chauvinistic preference....although I have my preferences. I happen to think that the distinctions I made correspond to what I know of the history and the intellectual traditions of the two countries. Americans like to think they have no distinct characteristics, but that is completely false. There are many aspects of American political life--obsession with the private and sexual lives of politicians for example and public sentimentality, that are very alien to Europe.

You jumped to a silly conclusion.

rfrobison
07-16-2009, 06:32 AM
If you could cite one of my postings that reveals my French nationalism I would be grateful.

I should know better than to stick my schnoz into other people's tiffs, but I couldn't help but notice you and nikki appear to have at least one thing in common: You both seem to regard nationalism/patriotism as the epitome of bad taste.

Not me. I'm from the good ol' U.S. of A. And as much as I love my adoptive home of Japan and find much to admire here, I love the country of my birth, for all its warts, much more. Perhaps it's an "absence makes the heart grow fonder" sort of thing. If anything, I'm becoming more nationalistic with the passage of time.

On the other hand, if I were Japanese or French I'm pretty sure I'd think those countries are the best the world has ever seen.

Personally, I see nothing wrong in those sorts patriotic feelings, so long as they don't drift into xenophobia and jingoism, or, more mildly but perhaps even sadder--an inability to appreciate what other nations/societies have to offer.

Talk to you later. Off to listen to some John Philip Souza--followed by some Youssou N'Dour or Salif Keita, maybe. (the West African intern influence!)

Patriotically yours,

R.

Francoamerican
07-16-2009, 06:52 AM
I should know better than to stick my schnoz into other people's tiffs, but I couldn't help but notice you and nikki appear to have at least one thing in common: You both seem to regard nationalism/patriotism as the epitome of bad taste.

Not me. I'm from the good ol' U.S. of A. And as much as I love my adoptive home of Japan and find much to admire here, I love the country of my birth, for all its warts, much more. Perhaps it's "an absence makes the heart grow fonder" sort of thing. If anything, I'm becoming more nationalistic with the passage of time.

On the other hand, if I were Japanese or French I'm pretty sure I'd think those countries are the best the world has ever seen.

Personally, I see nothing wrong in those sorts patriotic feelings, so long as they don't drift into xenophobia and jingoism, or, more mildly but perhaps even sadder--an inability to appreciate what other nations/societies have to offer.

Talk to you later. Off to listen to some John Philip Souza--followed by some Youssou N'Dour or Salif Keita, maybe. (the West African intern influence!)

Patriotically yours,

R.

HI R.

I suppose I should love the US since I was born there, but I don't. I have two passports by accident of birth and find that neither country really suits me, but on the whole I prefer to live in France. Does that make me patriotic or unpatriotic? Neither, I should think. Both the US and France have some admirable and some not so admirable traits. For me it comes down to history and sensibility rather than love of country.

I understand your feelings, maybe even envy them a little, but they are alien to my sensibility.

rfrobison
07-16-2009, 07:51 AM
HI R.

I suppose I should love the US since I was born there, but I don't. I have two passports by accident of birth and find that neither country really suits me, but on the whole I prefer to live in France. Does that make me patriotic or unpatriotic? Neither, I should think. Both the US and France have some admirable and some not so admirable traits. For me it comes down to history and sensibility rather than love of country.

I understand your feelings, maybe even envy them a little, but they are alien to my sensibility.

Hmm, yes, I suppose things are always a bit more ambiguous for bicultural or binational people. My wife (who's Japanese) and I have no kids, and we probably won't unless we decide to adopt, but I wonder whether they'd feel more Japanese, more American, both, or neither.

Defining patriotism is always problematic. Is it primarily an emotional feeling of attachment, stirred by such things as flags and martial music? Or is it a more intellectual phenomenon, primarily a concern for making one's country better? Of course there are interminable and tedious debates in U.S. politics over patriotism and whose got more of it, etc.

I must confess the most emotional experience of patriotism I ever had was right after 9-11. Queen Elizabeth had her guard play "The Star Spangled Banner" in the courtyard of Buckingham Palace. I cried when I heard that.

Anyway, we all have a number of loyalties, and who's to say which claims to our affections should have pride of place?

Hmm, as a Christian I have one answer to that, anyway...