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bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 05:07 PM
Here's CNN's story (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/03/palin/index.html) at the moment:

Gov. Sarah Palin announced Friday that she will step down as Alaska's chief executive by the end of the month. She will not seek election to a second gubernatorial term in 2010.

Palin, a Republican, was elected governor in 2006. She was tapped as Arizona Sen. John McCain's vice presidential running mate last year.

Palin said she was transferring authority to Lt. Gov. Sean Parnell, who will be sworn in at the Governor's Picnic on July 25.

"She thinks she has accomplished goals she has set forward," a source, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said. "She sees what a positive influence she has had on people's lives from traveling the country in the last year."

As the 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee, Palin has been considered one of the front-runners for the GOP nomination in 2012. Her decision not to seek another term as governor is sure to stoke speculation that Palin is seriously eyeing a run for the White House.

In an interview last month with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, Palin said she was unsure about her re-election bid because she needed to focus on her state and her family.

"So, no decision yet on either 2010 or let alone 2012?" Blitzer asked.

"No decision that I'd want to announce today," Palin responded.

Palin catapulted on the national stage last August when McCain, the Republican presidential nominee, chose her as his running mate.

My question is: what scandal was about to break? Why resign mid-term?

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 05:10 PM
My question is: what scandal was about to break? Why resign mid-term?

Known Palin-hater Shannyn Moore (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shannyn-moore/sarah-palin-resigns-as-al_b_225515.html) says:

Rumors of an "iceberg scandal" have been circulating.

SM's Twitter feed (http://twitter.com/shannynmoore).

stephanie
07-03-2009, 05:19 PM
There must be a scandal.

Here is Palin from her news conference (reported in the Anchoarge Daily News):

"I am determined to take the right path for Alaska even though it is not the easiest path," Palin said.

"Once I decided not to run for re-election, I also felt that to embrace the conventional 'Lame Duck' status in this particular climate would just be another dose of 'politics as usual,' something I campaigned against and will always oppose. It is my duty to always protect our great state. With that in mind, my family and I determined that it is best to make a difference this summer, and I am willing to change things, so that this administration, with its positive agenda, its accomplishments, and its successful road to an incredible future, can continue without interruption and with great administrative and legislative success."

As for her future, Palin said: "I look forward to helping others -- to fight for our state and our country, and campaign for those who believe in smaller government, free enterprise, strong national security, support for our troops and energy independence."

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 05:40 PM
There must be a scandal.

Bolstering that thought, here's this from the WaPo (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/03/AR2009070301738.html):

"We've seen a lot of nutty behavior from governors and Republican leaders in the last three months, but this one is at the top of that," said John Weaver, a longtime friend and confidant of Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), the party's presidential nominee in 2008 whose of selection of Palin catapulted the first-term Alaska governor to national prominence.

Unsurprisingly, "Sarah Palin" is already top of the list of Twitter's "Trending Topics." Edroso's tweet (http://twitter.com/edroso/status/2459248615):

Palin to Resign Governorship of Alaska, Expected to Focus on Complaining -- http://bit.ly/MiwWv

Follow that bit.ly link to a collection of funny stuff he's already seen on the Twitter. And on the wingnutosphere; e.g., K-Lo is already spinning this positively, even though she has no idea why Palin resigned!

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 05:47 PM
Wonkette's graphic (http://wonkette.com/409641/sarah-palin-resigns) is hilarious. (If you know them, and Drudge, especially.)

ohcomeon
07-03-2009, 05:47 PM
I love it when Republicans say how much they hate "the politics of personal destruction." I laughed and laughed and laughed. And don't forget our President pals around with terrorists.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 05:49 PM
CNN's Rick Sanchez (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/03/sarah-palin-resignation-r_n_225534.html) thinks she's pregnant. I would not bet on that.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 05:53 PM
Andrew Sullivan says "The Miniseries Ends (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/07/the-miniseries-ends.html)."

He also has started gathering up what he calls "Reax," here (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/07/out-with-a-whimper.html) and here (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/07/more-palin-reax.html).

ohcomeon
07-03-2009, 05:54 PM
So many questions come to mind. What will Andrew Sullivan do with himself now? Will she lose her seat at the Washington Post $25,000 bribe fests? Perhaps she'll have another child, lead wolf killing excursions, run for the title Mrs. America. She is so amazing she could do all three. It is all so exciting.

ohcomeon
07-03-2009, 05:59 PM
I am sure there are many great ideas about this development at the Aspen Idea Conference. If only they would show it on the internet then we could all feel included - even Mickey.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 06:04 PM
So many questions come to mind. What will Andrew Sullivan do with himself now?

Oh, you just watch. If he wants to, he will be able to keep himself in a frenzy for months over this one. Why did she resign? What about this possible scandal? That rumor? The other thing?

Particularly if ...

Will she lose her seat at the Washington Post $25,000 bribe fests? Perhaps she'll have another child, lead wolf killing excursions, run for the title Mrs. America. She is so amazing she could do all three. It is all so exciting.

... Palin starts obviously "exploring" a run for president, which is my prediction.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 06:05 PM
I am sure there are many great ideas about this development at the Aspen Idea Conference. If only they would show it on the internet then we could all feel included - even Mickey.

Bob should call Mickey back, and they should live-diavlog this while they're each watching their own TVs and computers.

uncle ebeneezer
07-03-2009, 06:07 PM
Dear God, if you make it so that the story breaks that Palin was the head of a huge kiddie-porn empire and funneling the $ to Al-Qaeda, I will renounce my atheism and devote the rest of my years to spreading the word of Christ as your humble servant. Amen.-- Uncle Ebeneezer

PS my offer requires some sort of felony conviction and actual prison time.

claymisher
07-03-2009, 06:08 PM
Bwahahahhaha! The headlines cracked me up. Then I started watching the video. Bwahahahhahabwahahahhahabwahahahhaha!!!!!111!!!! It's the funniest damned thing. She is completely high. Or scared out of her mind. I'm guessing she got tipped off that she's about to get nailed on something bad.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 06:09 PM
Bwahahahhaha! The headlines cracked me up. Then I started watching the video. Bwahahahhahabwahahahhahabwahahahhaha!!!!!111!!!! It's the funniest damned thing. She is completely high. Or scared out of her mind. I'm guessing she got tipped off that she's about to get nailed on something bad.

Link to vid plz.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 06:09 PM
Dear God, if you make it so that the story breaks that Palin was the head of a huge kiddie-porn empire and funneling the $ to Al-Qaeda, I will renounce my atheism and devote the rest of my years to spreading the word of Christ as your humble service. Amen.-- Uncle Ebeneezer

PS my offer requires some sort of felony conviction and actual prison time.

LMAO!

claymisher
07-03-2009, 06:12 PM
Link to vid plz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f9YQMbQMn0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftpmtv%2Etalkingpointsmemo%2Ecom% 2F&feature=player_embedded

I always go for TPM for video.

I hope she doesn't cancer. That would really ruin the fun.

claymisher
07-03-2009, 06:13 PM
(btw, I saw the news on keefe's site first, so there.)

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 06:14 PM
(btw, I saw the news on keefe's site first, so there.)

LOL. Thanks!

And thanks for the vid link. Duh. Forgot to look at TPM. And you're right -- she does sound a little shaky.

[Added] OMG. The victimization is unbearable. Trying to blame this on people making jokes about Trig is just a disgrace.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 06:18 PM
Transcript of Palin's announcement on TPM (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/2009/07/full-text-of-palins-resignation-speech.php?ref=fpblg).

claymisher
07-03-2009, 06:25 PM
You'd think she'd have just written a nice short statement, but no, we get the rambling word salad. She really is completely incompetent. It's entertaining for me but terrible for her.

The funny thing is I had completely forgotten about her. I know there was the Letterman flareup but nobody really gave a shit about that. She was behind in the polls in AK but she had another year to get her numbers back up. She didn't have to quit now. She could have gotten her shit together.

My bet: another pregnant daughter.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 06:33 PM
You'd think she'd have just written a nice short statement, but no, we get the rambling word salad.

Indeed. And if you read the transcript (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/2009/07/full-text-of-palins-resignation-speech.php?ref=fpblg) that her own office posted, the crazy continues -- more exclamation points and ALL CAPS than most posts on this forum.

She really is completely incompetent. It's entertaining for me but terrible for her.

Agree with all but the last bit. First, I think she's convinced -- as she always is -- that she's doing exactly the right thing at the moment. (Assuming she's not hiding some really bad news, health or otherwise.) Also, as far as her fans go, this can only make them more ecstatic. She has nothing left to accomplish in Alaska, from their POV. Better that she should concentrate on the national stage, again, from their POV.

The funny thing is I had completely forgotten about her. I know there was the Letterman flareup but nobody really gave a shit about that. She was behind in the polls in AK but she had another year to get her numbers back up. She didn't have to quit now. She could have gotten her shit together.

My bet: another pregnant daughter.

Hmmm. Assuming you don't mean Bristol, isn't the next one only about six or something?

I think it's a looming ethics charge, or series of them, that are about to break. I base this partly on what she said in her announcement (search for "ethics" in the transcript), and partly because I can't see how even a dimwit would think quitting a job as governor would help a run for president. And I don't think she's a dimwit in terms of political calculations at that basic level.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 06:36 PM
I love it when Republicans say how much they hate "the politics of personal destruction." I laughed and laughed and laughed. And don't forget our President pals around with terrorists.

IOKIYAR!

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 06:41 PM
Mudflats (among the best of the liberal Alaska blogs) had just moved to a new site. Palin announced, and shortly thereafter, the new site crashed under the ensuing load.

Old blog here (http://mudflats.wordpress.com/).

claymisher
07-03-2009, 06:42 PM
Indeed. And if you read the transcript (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/2009/07/full-text-of-palins-resignation-speech.php?ref=fpblg) that her own office posted, the crazy continues -- more exclamation points and ALL CAPS than most posts on this forum.



Agree with all but the last bit. First, I think she's convinced -- as she always is -- that she's doing exactly the right thing at the moment. (Assuming she's not hiding some really bad news, health or otherwise.) Also, as far as her fans go, this can only make them more ecstatic. She has nothing left to accomplish in Alaska, from their POV. Better that she should concentrate on the national stage, again, from their POV.



Hmmm. Assuming you don't mean Bristol, isn't the next one only about six or something?

I think it's a looming ethics charge, or series of them, that are about to break. I base this partly on what she said in her announcement (search for "ethics" in the transcript), and partly because I can't see how even a dimwit would think quitting a job as governor would help a run for president. And I don't think she's a dimwit in terms of political calculations at that basic level.

Willow's 14. I feel bad about saying that now. Sorry, world.

She have four kids at home, a grandchild, an infant with special needs, she's completely over her head in her job and it's probably no fun anymore now that everybody's on to her and the economy stinks. That's plenty of good reasons to quit.

No, it's probably the ethics thing.

ohcomeon
07-03-2009, 06:46 PM
Bet you're right on that one Brendan. Whenever a pol mentions the politics of personal destruction something bad is about to come out. I don't think it will be something strictly personal because what has already come out would sink most pols. (She's a Christian so she's not perfect...just forgiven.) No, this will be a political scandal of the highest order. Well, except it's Alaska and no one really cares. Breaks up the terrible heat here in Texas though.

JonIrenicus
07-03-2009, 06:52 PM
So many questions come to mind. What will Andrew Sullivan do with himself now? Will she lose her seat at the Washington Post $25,000 bribe fests? Perhaps she'll have another child, lead wolf killing excursions, run for the title Mrs. America. She is so amazing she could do all three. It is all so exciting.

She will likely return to her old pastime as imagined by liberals, drinking the blood of infants.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 06:52 PM
Willow's 14. I feel bad about saying that now. Sorry, world.

Sheesh. After the Letterman thing, how did I forget about Willow? I could only envision the one who was holding Trig at the convention, wetting her palm to smooth his hair.

She have four kids at home, a grandchild, an infant with special needs, she's completely over her head in her job and it's probably no fun anymore now that everybody's on to her and the economy stinks. That's plenty of good reasons to quit.

No, it's probably the ethics thing.

Yeah, that could be right, too. Could have just gotten to a point where juggling all those things, plus being in the spotlight, stopped being fun. After all, she could make a million a year from Fox, say, doing a once-a-week think out of her home, if she wanted to.

But, as with your last thought, I think there's at least one more shoe that will drop.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 06:55 PM
Bet you're right on that one Brendan. Whenever a pol mentions the politics of personal destruction something bad is about to come out.

Did sound both reflective and preemptive, didn't it?

I don't think it will be something strictly personal because what has already come out would sink most pols. (She's a Christian so she's not perfect...just forgiven.)

You're right about that, starting from Day 1 of her VP nomination. Pretty amazing.

No, this will be a political scandal of the highest order. Well, except it's Alaska and no one really cares. Breaks up the terrible heat here in Texas though.

Cool.

claymisher
07-03-2009, 07:04 PM
She will likely return to her old pastime as imagined by liberals, drinking the blood of infants.

Oh boo, nobody says that.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 07:07 PM
Pretty good first-look analysis piece (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_07/018921.php) from Benen, again, based on the assumption that nothing major is being covered up at this moment.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 07:08 PM
She will likely return to her old pastime as imagined by liberals, drinking the blood of infants.

What clay said. Pretty stupid thing to say, Jon.

The thing fans of Palin fail to realize about anti-Palin types is that none of us "fear" her or think she's evil. We think she's, at worst, a classic "mean-girl" type. Overwhelmingly, though, she is a gold mine of comedy and a perfect representative of the pouting, thin-skinned, I-can-say-anything-about-you-but-you-better-STFU-about-me place that the GOP and the movement conservatives have sunk to over the past few years.

claymisher
07-03-2009, 07:09 PM
mattyglesias: Bad news for Matt Continetti's book

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 07:12 PM
mattyglesias: Bad news for Matt Continetti's book

ROFL!

Couldn't happen to a better wingnut.

Although, actually, depending on how it plays out, he could end up selling even more copies.

Ocean
07-03-2009, 07:14 PM
Is it possible that she is moving to South America with her soul mate?

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 07:26 PM
Is it possible that she is moving to South America with her soul mate?

LOL!

Want to bet that Sanford chooses this moment to do another interview, further digging himself into the hole? (cf. (http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/site/comments/god_killed_michael_jackson_to_save_your_ass/))

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 07:32 PM
Bill "Always Wrong" Kristol (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Weblogs/TWSFP/TWSFPView.asp#12268):

If Palin wants to run in 2012, why not do exactly what she announced today? It's an enormous gamble - but it could be a shrewd one.

(cf. (http://www.google.com/search?q=Bill+%22Always+Wrong%22+Kristol))

============

Also: Starbursts no more (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDA4NjdlZTM3YzY2NTU4ZjU0ZjcyODUxYjE2ZjNmMGY=).

(cf. (http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/site/comments/rich_lowrys_little_starbursts/))

Ocean
07-03-2009, 07:36 PM
LOL!

Want to bet that Sanford chooses this moment to do another interview, further digging himself into the hole? (cf. (http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/site/comments/god_killed_michael_jackson_to_save_your_ass/))

“God killed Michael Jackson to save your ass!”

Love is a powerful thing.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 07:45 PM
Unsurprisingly, from Gateway Pundit (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/07/breaking-sarah-palin-to-resign.html):

Another win for the state-run media and the democratic politics of personal destruction...
SARAH PALIN RESIGNS!

[...]

God bless this courageous woman.

[...]

It's a shame that Republicans were so hard on her.

But, the Left was worse.
And, the brutal pounding from the Left on her and her children has been constant.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 08:01 PM
Vindication. (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/07/september-20-2008.html)

thprop
07-03-2009, 08:55 PM
Katherine Lopez (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NGZlMWI5YmQxODVmODZhYTU1MzQxNWFiNzVlZmMyNTQ=) at NRO has him beat - it's David Letterman's fault -
Mother Palin [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

Who knows all the reasons — Todd and Sarah Palin, presumably fully understand.

Listening to her, it seems like this is a combination of stepping back and moving forward. Stepping back, because it's way too overwhelming to be Sarah Palin, political phenom, Sarah Palin, governor of Alaska, and Sarah Palin, wife and mother. I don't know that anyone can fulfill all those roles well, simultaneously. And we're unrealistic, I think, when we assume people can or should.

One reservation I've always had about Sarah Palin has to do with her family. If she is stepping down because of what politics has done to her family, because of something in her family life she doesn't want to see as David Letterman fodder, because it's impossible to be governor, a star, and a mom to an infant ... this is good. It demonstrates good judgment and priorities.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 09:06 PM
Katherine Lopez (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NGZlMWI5YmQxODVmODZhYTU1MzQxNWFiNzVlZmMyNTQ=) at NRO has him beat - it's David Letterman's fault -

The funny thing is, K-Lo used to have a mad crush (http://www.google.com/search?q=k-lo+mittens) on Mittens. I wonder how long it'll take her to admit how happy this makes her.

Ah, well. Plenty of time for that down the road. It's good to get in some liberal media bashing now, and who wouldn't want another excuse to share the victim's cloak?

Good email from one of Sullivan's readers (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/07/palin-as-figurehead.html#more), on this:

I disagree with one of your readers who asserted that the ability to lie was fundamental to the fundamentalist’s mind. Her appeal has less to do with her personally than with those who follow her. She is simply an attractive empty vessel into which her followers pile grievances. Her followers feel aggrieved, by the government, by the media, by Pelosi and Reid, by the gays, by the greens, and by the ever lurking extreme liberal left. Real or imagined, Palin’s followers view her as a symbol of their world that these lefties have unfairly attacked.

This is why when presented with evidence of her lies, her supporters deflect by citing liberal media bias. They never address the facts because the facts are largely incidental. They immediately point to one of these nefarious forces.

A fairly persuasive theory of leadership called the ‘Social Contagion’ theory, postulates that leadership functions not through the leader but through the followers. Ideas spread like the flu (a contagion) that the followers catch. In order for a movement to break through to a larger audience, the followers require a figurehead. Palin is that figurehead for the aggrieved fundamentalist right.

If it wasn’t her, they’d find someone else. But her carefully constructed physical appearance, which includes her family, makes her figurehead status all the more appealing. She represents the ultimate looking glass self for the fundamentalist right at least in the sense that she looks the part. They ascribe everything else to her whether it fits her or not. That’s why she can say or do anything that she wants because in the end it does not matter to her base.

thprop
07-03-2009, 09:30 PM
When I heard about Palin's resignation, I immediately thought of this scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg) from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

JonIrenicus
07-03-2009, 10:03 PM
What clay said. Pretty stupid thing to say, Jon.

The thing fans of Palin fail to realize about anti-Palin types is that none of us "fear" her or think she's evil. We think she's, at worst, a classic "mean-girl" type. Overwhelmingly, though, she is a gold mine of comedy and a perfect representative of the pouting, thin-skinned, I-can-say-anything-about-you-but-you-better-STFU-about-me place that the GOP and the movement conservatives have sunk to over the past few years.

If stupid is ratcheting up the arms race of what a terrible person Palin is in terms X, Y, and Z with such an absurd example that it highlights the excesses of those who pile onto her without end, then yes it was stupid.

And yet the point still stands.


I happen to think Palin was often cringe inducing to listen to in terms of policy and understanding issues, but for all that, I do not see her as a bad woman. Would I want her to be president, no, but after a certain point the ridicule just becomes the very "mean girls" type fodder you suggest she engages in.

She kind of reminds me of Harriet Myers, in many ways ill equipped to a post she was running/nominated for. And at the same time, probably a wonderful woman in many other areas of life.

But I, unlike a guy like Paul Krugman, do not carry within me the mean girls gene. When I see a person on the ground, bloodied and battered, even if that person was my enemy, my inclination is not to kick the person in the face even more, to stick the knife into open wounds and twist to produce just a little more suffering.

Even for a woman like Cindy Sheehan whom I see as a consummate fool, even after all the verbal assaults I have made personally against her ideas, I take no pleasure piling onto her after she is broken and on the ground (in her case she is not).

Unlike a true mean girl, after the point is made, I am done.... unless they have not yielded in some way... it depends

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 10:08 PM
When I heard about Palin's resignation, I immediately thought of this scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg) from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

"Where? Behind the rabbit?" remains to this day one of my all-time favorite movie lines.

Thanks for that link.

pampl
07-03-2009, 10:17 PM
I take no pleasure piling onto her after she is broken and on the ground (in her case she is not).

And you think this describes Sarah Palin? You do realize people are (and have been) seriously talking about her running for President, right? Would she have to be nominated for Empress of the Universe to stop being broken and on the ground?

JonIrenicus
07-03-2009, 10:29 PM
And you think this describes Sarah Palin? You do realize people are (and have been) seriously talking about her running for President, right? Would she have to be nominated for Empress of the Universe to stop being broken and on the ground?

No, but you would think it would essentially die away until she announced she was going to run again.

Admit it, alot of people simply enjoy her being a convenient punching bag, and would continue enjoying her in that role whether she ran again or not.

bjkeefe
07-03-2009, 10:53 PM
[...] When I see a person on the ground, bloodied and battered, even if that person was my enemy, my inclination is not to kick the person in the face even more [...]

A noble sentiment, and one which I generally share. However, it does not apply here.

There was no hint of apology in Palin's statement, nor any acknowledgment of wrongdoing or personal failure or anything else that suggested she sees herself as down. She made a surprise announcement that caught everyone in the country by complete surprise. In that announcement, she whined about being criticized, she complained about ethics charges filed against her, and she carried on with the same old bullshit fauxtrage about imaginary insults directed at her favorite campaign prop. As I read it, she spent the first part of the statement bragging about her accomplishments and the rest of it playing the victim card -- an act which her fans just never get tired of applauding (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=118861#post118861). And let's not forget how you started this off:

She will likely return to her old pastime as imagined by liberals, drinking the blood of infants.

(Here, have another glass of Kool-Aid while I finish.)

From Day 1 of her time on the national stage, she has lapped up the attention and been hypersensitive to the point of hysteria about the slightest word against her, all while saying some of the most vile shit I've ever heard said by anyone campaigning to be in the White House. She took no responsibility for anything she did to harm her side's campaign, and even wanted to hog the stage at McCain's concession speech. Since the day after Election Day, she has been engaged in one self-serving publicity stunt after another, from the will-she-or-won't-she drama of personal appearances to milking nontroversies to playing games with the stimulus money. It is always "Pay attention to ME!" and then when the attention is anything other than flattery, off she runs to some wingnut radio station to complain about it.

She has a documented history of being a pathological liar, not doing the job she was elected to do, and using her political power to carry out personal vendettas and promote her unqualified lackeys. Worse, to my mind, she is an arrogant twit, unable to admit that she hasn't got a clue about anything to do with policy, unwilling to put any effort into changing this, uninterested in learning or experiencing new things, and to top it all off, thinks these shortcomings are virtues which make her a Real American™. To Sarah Palin, education, worldliness, and intellectual curiosity are things to be mocked, if not outright condemned, and ignorance is a flag she waves proudly.

And now, today (unless there's some personal problem which she chose not to talk about), one of two things happened: either she decided she was bored with the pesky ole job of being Governor when her approval ratings had sunk from 90% to 50%, or she got wind of something coming down the pike that would have forced her from office. No matter which of these two turns out to be the case, good riddance. She appeals to the worst aspects of the American psyche, and she's just smart enough to know how to do that, and she's been riding it since she first ran for mayor of Wasilla. And you know what I say to that?

Thanks but no thanks.

pampl
07-03-2009, 10:57 PM
No, but you would think it would essentially die away until she announced she was going to run again.

Admit it, alot of people simply enjoy her being a convenient punching bag, and would continue enjoying her in that role whether she ran again or not.
I can't speak for a lot of people but I certainly enjoy her being a very convenient punching big. Part of what makes her a convenient punching bag is that she wasn't ever remotely like being "broken on the ground" and you would have to be a nutcase to feel pity for someone for only managing to win ~50m votes for VP and being stuck with her day job of governing a state. She's barely been able to command national media coverage at whim, how traumatic! My heart goes out to that poor soul.

Lyle
07-03-2009, 11:57 PM
Vindication of what?

Sullivan's coverage of Palin has been a farce. He still can't shut up about her downs syndrome son Trig.

bjkeefe
07-04-2009, 12:06 AM
Vindication of what?

Another blue ribbon for obtuseness, for Lyle!

Lyle
07-04-2009, 12:24 AM
I ask again, vindication of what?

bjkeefe
07-04-2009, 12:29 AM
I ask again, vindication of what?

Heard you the first time.

Lyle
07-04-2009, 12:37 AM
I want an answer from you. Sullivan is vindicated why? Strum your progressive guitar for me Bj.

bjkeefe
07-04-2009, 12:41 AM
I want an answer from you.

I think it would be useful for you to figure this one out for yourself, Lyle.

Lyle
07-04-2009, 12:52 AM
Nope, I want you to articulate what you mean by vindication. Humor us. Play your progressive trombone for us Bj.

bjkeefe
07-04-2009, 12:59 AM
No, Lyle. This is for your own good. Time you started learning how to read and listen for context. Learn how to think once in a while, instead of always shooting from the hip. Someday you'll be glad you made the effort.

I will ignore any further foot-stamping from you on this matter.

kezboard
07-04-2009, 01:03 AM
On the internets, we call this a flounce.

bjkeefe
07-04-2009, 01:14 AM
Emph. added:

I betcha I'd have more endurance. My one claim to fame in my own little internal running circle is a sub-four marathon. It wasn't necessarily a good running time, but it proves I have the endurance within me to at least gut it out and that is something. If you ever talk to my old coaches, they'd tell you, too. What I lacked in physical strength or skill I made up for in determination and endurance. So if it were a long race that required a lot of endurance, I'd win.

Guess who. (http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/2009/07/palin-on-endurance.html)

uncle ebeneezer
07-04-2009, 01:22 AM
Wow, half a term, that's some endurance.

She would have been better in gymnastics or figure skating. You know something where you could blame the evil judges, with their "gotcha" scoring systems.

bjkeefe
07-04-2009, 01:32 AM
Pamela Geller (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/07/palin-putsch-a-palace-revolution.html), headline and excerpt:

PALIN STEPPING DOWN! PALIN PUTSCH: PRAY FOR A PALACE REVOLUTION!

My take? If Palin is anything like I think she is (know she is), Obama's treasonous presidency is responsible for this. She, like all patriotic Americans, is shocked by what is happening. Obama is destroying this country. She knows it. We all know it. We need a leader. She is answering our call.

She did not quit. She is going to get into the fight to save America. Watch what happens.

James Wolcott (http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wolcott/2009/07/im-watching-sarah-palins-fan.html), headline and excerpt:

Sarah Palin Quits While She's Behind

I'm watching Sarah Palin's fan club on Fox News--including the shameless Greta Van Susteren--trying to spin Palin's decision to step down as governor of Alaska midterm and it's remarkable how they can take straight Palin's phony-baloney explanation that she can do more for Alaska by working from outside the government instead of hanging on and fulfilling the duties for which she was elected. If she had said, I can do more for my national prospects by kissing this job buh-bye and readin' up real good like Jonah Goldberg recommends (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZGE1OTE3OTFhMmZkOWE5MDQ5MmZhZTFjMzE2MjcxNTM=) and getting my presidential campaign team assembled, that would have carried a certain crass, calculating plausibility. But to pretend that it's Alaska's welfare that's uppermost in her mind and she can do more in a civilian capacity than serving as the actual fucking governor of the state, is a bit stretchy.

Wolcott links at the end of his post to someone who might just possibly have out-crazied Geller.

uncle ebeneezer
07-04-2009, 01:40 AM
Apparently Geller didn't hear the warning:

http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/port_lofi.cfm/sound_iid.37146

bjkeefe
07-04-2009, 01:53 AM
Apparently Geller didn't hear the warning:

http://www.audiosparx.com/sa/play/port_lofi.cfm/sound_iid.37146

LOL!

And of course, when worrying about people who may have ingested unrecommended hallucinogens, who could ever forget the Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler of the RedState Trike Force (http://www.redstate.com/erick/2009/07/03/on-sarah-palin/#comment-26514)?

Can't wait to see...
kmgm Friday, July 3rd at 6:18PM EDT

…Erick’s retraction when it turns out her resignation has nothing to do with the big, bad liberal press and instead is a result of the scandal that is inevitably going to reach the light of day. I thought Erick would have learned from the Sanford snafu…

There could be
Erick Erickson Friday, July 3rd at 6:25PM EDT

There is certainly speculation that this is the real reason for her departure. But it makes it no less true that she’s tired of the attacks.

Oh, and you’re banned.

H/t to Instaputz (http://instaputz.blogspot.com/2009/07/erick-erickson-is-little-testy-tonight.html) on finding that gem in the comments. Further down, more from the GHEMR:

Emboldened
Erick Erickson Friday, July 3rd at 6:33PM EDT

I think the left and press will now be emboldened to ritualize the gang raping of conservative politicians, particularly female conservative politicians.

Which can only mean new names for OPERATION LEPER. Yeah! "Coffee mugs, bitches (http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/by-joe-the-plumbers-hammer-by-the-sons-of-wasilla-you-shall-be-avenged/)."

==========

[Added] Sanford snafu described here (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2009/06/breaking-erick-erickson-says-something.html), for those a little lost on the inside baseball.

uncle ebeneezer
07-04-2009, 02:47 AM
I made the mistake of scrolling down on a couple of those RS links. Wow!! I've seen 80,000 Phish-heads on pot/acid/shrooms, who were more firmly connected to reality than these people. And this is one of the BETTER conservative blogs?? Frightening.

bjkeefe
07-04-2009, 02:56 AM
I made the mistake of scrolling down on a couple of those RS links. Wow!! I've seen 80,000 Phish-heads on pot/acid/shrooms, who were more firmly connected to reality than these people. And this is one of the BETTER conservative blogs?? Frightening.

Erick Erickson is the "the sixty-ninth most influential conservative in the United States (http://bjkeefe.blogspot.com/2009/04/troublemaking-fat-kid-making-trouble.html)," and don't you bitchez forget it.

Also, he liked his gang rape line so much, he repeated it in a newer post (http://www.redstate.com/erick/2009/07/03/a-few-additional-and-hopefully-final-thoughts-on-sarah-palin/). And then moved on to show what else a real RedState man thinks about:

I’ve had this running thought all day, perhaps because I was watching it on TV in HD for the first time, that this is kind of like Ben Kenobi letting Darth Vader strike him down.

(h/t: Thers (http://www.eschatonblog.com/2009/07/thread_03.html))

Lyle
07-04-2009, 01:02 PM
You're so afraid.

Lyle
07-04-2009, 01:27 PM
Put this in your mouths people.

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4160#

Let me tell you something about Sarah Palin, but first with the understanding that I don't know any more about her than you do; I've never met her either; and I didn't vote for her. Stupid people don't tend to attract contributors, managers, supporters, and electorates. If she'd exhibited stupidity on the Wasilla city council, they probably wouldn't have elected her mayor. If she'd exhibited stupidity as mayor, they probably wouldn't have elected her for a second term. Her appointment to the Oil and Gas Committee by the governor was probably not because she'd behaved stupidly. Finally, stupidity probably does not characterize most successful bids to run for governor of one of the United States. Does she exhibit an almost robotic and uncritical point-by-point support of the Republican platform? Yes. Is she undereducated for her position? Possibly, her bachelor's degree is in journalism. It's arguable that she's demonstrated a clear disdain for, and illiteracy in, science. She gives every indication that her religious beliefs and her party guidance determine her priorities. But welcome to reality: That's the way a lot of people work, including a lot of people on the other side of the political aisle.

If you call yourself a critical thinker, ad hominem attacks should not be the extent of your criticisms of those in whom you find fault. Show me one thing Sarah Palin has said or done that's "stupid", and I'll show you something that's perfectly rational for someone with her religious and political convictions. It may be that you simply disagree with her convictions, and you probably have very good reasons for doing so. But if that's the case, don't just say "Sarah Palin is stupid". That's kindergarten talk, and it makes you look bad, not her. Understand why she takes the position she does, then reveal the faults in that position.

bjkeefe
07-04-2009, 01:30 PM
You're so afraid.

If it makes you feel better to think so, by all means. I am not inclined to take away a crying child's security blanket.

graz
07-04-2009, 01:46 PM
Put this in your mouths people.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4160#

I put it in my mouth, swished it around and spit it out without any effect. Her relative intelligence is not the source of my disregard. My disdain is rooted in the knowledge that she is the "One," a consummate empty vessel for projecting the worst aspects of neo-con lust (see Kristol... forget Lowry):http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/07/kristol_a_contrarian_take_1.asp.
We live in a crazy enough country that her next stop could be Pennsylvania ave. That prospect is frightening... and not in a good way!

Happy B-Day America.

Lyle
07-04-2009, 02:25 PM
Haha... you think I'm a "crying child". Typical progressive ignorance and ad hominem.

Lyle
07-04-2009, 02:28 PM
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/07/it-always-has-been-about-trig.html

I don't know why Sarah Palin resigned, what her plans are, or whether she has or wants a political future.

I do know why the left hates her so much. And it keeps coming back to Trig.

Yes, some people hate Sarah Palin because she doesn't have the traditional pedigree, she isn't one of them, she is too good looking to be taken seriously, etc. And yes, some hate her because they hate her religion, politics, blah blah blah. But that doesn't explain the Sarah Palin hatred. It is so deep as to be pathological.

But it keeps coming back to Trig.

pampl
07-04-2009, 02:56 PM
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/07/it-always-has-been-about-trig.html

I don't know why Sarah Palin resigned, what her plans are, or whether she has or wants a political future.

I do know why the left hates her so much. And it keeps coming back to Trig.

Yes, some people hate Sarah Palin because she doesn't have the traditional pedigree, she isn't one of them, she is too good looking to be taken seriously, etc. And yes, some hate her because they hate her religion, politics, blah blah blah. But that doesn't explain the Sarah Palin hatred. It is so deep as to be pathological.

But it keeps coming back to Trig.
People hate you for your personality, not because they're bigoted against all people with mental handicaps

graz
07-04-2009, 02:59 PM
But it keeps coming back to Trig.

No, it is more likely calculus... political calculus.

JonIrenicus
07-04-2009, 03:15 PM
Vindication. (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/07/september-20-2008.html)

One of the things that annoy me about sullivan are his over the top head exploding conniption fits.


It is the type of sight that would sway a scientologist to prescribe ritalin.

And frankly it is dishonest. He would never turn that same tide against Obama, because he wanted Obama to win and agreed more with him. He is a snake, turning up the fire not because it is objectively worthy of such an act, but to pile on to a topic to get his way. Though with him, his preferences and inclinations seem so schizoid he could turn on anyone, to be honest.

He is a child, and an exposed nerve. And even being right on things will not take away the former.

bjkeefe
07-04-2009, 03:17 PM
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/07/it-always-has-been-about-trig.html

[...]

But it keeps coming back to Trig.

Only a true moron, or someone blinded with hate for "The Left," believes that "it keeps coming back to Trig" is a true statement. Except, of course, as it applies to Sarah Palin and her cult of congenital droolers, who think this is a good place to exercise their fauxtrage. Photoshopping a picture of Sarah Palin holding her favorite campaign prop -- which, by the way, generally means removing Trig from the picture -- is 95% satire directed at Sarah Palin and 5% motivated by the delight at hearing morons squeal about it. This attempt to make it "all about Trig" strikes me as yet another attempt by Greater Wingnuttia to flip around their obsession with "The Left's Political Correctness" and turn it into a club. Let us not forget the howling and poo-flinging frenzy that took place after Obama's self-deprecating moment on the Tonight Show where he happened to mention the Special Olympics.

And seriously, Lyle, only a card-carrying disturbo thinks Col. Mustard over at Legal Insurrection is worth spending even a second taking seriously. If that's your side's new champion, you all are hurting even worse than I thought.

bjkeefe
07-04-2009, 03:37 PM
Haha... you think I'm a "crying child". Typical progressive ignorance and ad hominem.

Like your hero Sarah Palin, you are confusing the slapping together of random clichés with something resembling coherent speech.

pampl
07-04-2009, 04:10 PM
One of the things that annoy me about sullivan are his over the top head exploding conniption fits. [...] his preferences and inclinations seem so schizoid he could turn on anyone, to be honest.


I agree with these parts. He's silly enough that it doesn't bother me when he turns on something I like though so I don't feel too bad watching him go off on Palin or whomever. If I had been bothered by his pro-war phase maybe I'd be less entertained by his manic capering though.

bjkeefe
07-04-2009, 04:31 PM
One of the things that annoy me about sullivan are his over the top head exploding conniption fits.


It is the type of sight that would sway a scientologist to prescribe ritalin.

And frankly it is dishonest. He would never turn that same tide against Obama, because he wanted Obama to win and agreed more with him. He is a snake, turning up the fire not because it is objectively worthy of such an act, but to pile on to a topic to get his way. Though with him, his preferences and inclinations seem so schizoid he could turn on anyone, to be honest.

He is a child, and an exposed nerve. And even being right on things will not take away the former.

I wonder how you feel about those on the right who act as least as far over the top regarding Obama, or Nancy Pelosi, or Bill or Hillary Clinton, or Al Gore, or Al Franken, or liberals in general ...

Think about it. There is a long list of people who seem to spend their every waking moment positively screaming about the most minor aspects of any of these and other targets, and many of them make a living doing so. Their hysteria does not even stop at exaggeration; often they feed their frenzies with flat-out lies. Do you have the same reaction to, say, Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Coulter, Glenn Beck, Michael Savage, Mark Levin, Jonah Goldberg, Michelle Malkin, Erick Erickson, ... ?

[Added] I do have to say that even though I don't agree that it applies in this case, this ...

It is the type of sight that would sway a scientologist to prescribe ritalin.

... was a good line.

bjkeefe
07-04-2009, 04:59 PM
Put this in your mouths people.

... mayor ... appointment to the Oil and Gas Committee ... governor ...

Commenter Alaska Girl (http://wonkette.com/409643/so-why-did-this-crazy-palin-lady-quit-the-alaska-governor-job-she-just-started-two-years-ago#comment-354466):

She didn’t finish her term as mayor, stepping down to run for Lt. Governor. She didn’t finish her term on the petroleum board ethics panel, she resigned in protest and then ran for Governor [which, obvs., was another job she failed to fulfill --bjk]. She doesn’t want the office, she just likes running for office. She doesn’t want (can’t actually) accomplish anything, she just wants to talk about it.

Lyle
07-04-2009, 05:02 PM
And seriously, Lyle, only a card-carrying disturbo thinks Col. Mustard over at Legal Insurrection is worth spending even a second taking seriously. If that's your side's new champion, you all are hurting even worse than I thought.

... haha, and this from a guy who quotes from Firedoglake all day long. Haha. The immaturity of some people is self-evident when they talk about Sarah Palin and family.

Mean is mean. Immature is immature. Childish is childish.

bjkeefe
07-04-2009, 05:05 PM
... haha, and this from a guy who quotes from Firedoglake all day long. Haha. The immaturity of some people is self-evident when they talk about Sarah Palin and family.

Mean is mean. Immature is immature. Childish is childish.

Unsupported claims. Empty assertions. Foot-stamping. Classic Lyle.

stephanie
07-04-2009, 05:42 PM
Put this in your mouths people.

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4160#

Let me tell you something about Sarah Palin, but first with the understanding that I don't know any more about her than you do.... stupidity probably does not characterize most successful bids to run for governor of one of the United States.

Sometimes it does. Probably few people who care at all about politics would have much of a difficult time coming up with several governors and other people elected to state-wide political office who they believe are stupid. I don't particularly think Palin is (inadequately informed about and interested in a variety of things important to national (possibly even statewide) political office, yes), but the idea that being elected=not stupid is just a not especially convincing assertion.

Does she exhibit an almost robotic and uncritical point-by-point support of the Republican platform? Yes.

Well, not exactly. That's part of the weirdness of the whole thing. If you look at her record before she was prematurely elevated (not saying she would have ever been ready, but clearly wasn't when it happened), she didn't particularly line up perfectly with the platform, because AK politics are weird and on a number of issues she was as deviant as, say, Huckabee, or simply lacked a position altogether. If she has a robotic point by point acceptance now, that's because she was saying what she thought she needed to say, which -- were I a member of the Republican base -- would have concerned me, not caused me to join in the bizarre level of enthusiasm about her, which was not issue-based.

stephanie
07-04-2009, 05:51 PM
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/07/it-always-has-been-about-trig.html

I don't know why Sarah Palin resigned, what her plans are, or whether she has or wants a political future.

I do know why the left hates her so much. And it keeps coming back to Trig.

I thought it came back to her being attractive? Or is that just women.

There's no one reason why "the Left" hates her. There's no "the Left," especially since the people grouped in such a term, usually, include Dems generally.

But the notion that it's Trig is just a bizarre claim. Now, it seems clear, on the other hand, that part of why certain members of the RW elite was enthusiastic about her was Trig and the story surrounding his birth (there was a good article on this prior to the election which I can track down if people don't recall). So it does make sense that there's some projection going on.

Speaking for myself, I don't hate her, but I don't care for her much. I decided I didn't care for her much not because of any of her qualities, but when she started saying that people like me (i.e., who live where I do, vote the way I vote, so on) aren't real Americans. Bring back the culture war and attack a growing segment of people, and, yes, you will be a polarizing figure. That was the tactic -- the more she can play the victim of the so-called not real Americans, the so-called elites, the more she is loved among certain elements of the base. It plays into it for people to respond with hatred, then, but it's hardly difficult to understand and claiming it is about Trig is offensive and wrong.

themightypuck
07-04-2009, 08:11 PM
Finally I'm stumped by an acronym.

bjkeefe
07-04-2009, 08:18 PM
Finally I'm stumped by an acronym.

If only there were some online resource (http://www.google.com/search?q=IOKIYAR) ...

;^)

Lyle
07-05-2009, 08:58 AM
Sometimes it does. Probably few people who care at all about politics would have much of a difficult time coming up with several governors and other people elected to state-wide political office who they believe are stupid. I don't particularly think Palin is (inadequately informed about and interested in a variety of things important to national (possibly even statewide) political office, yes), but the idea that being elected=not stupid is just a not especially convincing assertion.

You must have a low threshold for "stupid" Stephanie. High end elected officials may do something "stupid", but that doesn't make them "stupid". I think that was the guy's point.



Well, not exactly. That's part of the weirdness of the whole thing. If you look at her record before she was prematurely elevated (not saying she would have ever been ready, but clearly wasn't when it happened), she didn't particularly line up perfectly with the platform, because AK politics are weird and on a number of issues she was as deviant as, say, Huckabee, or simply lacked a position altogether. If she has a robotic point by point acceptance now, that's because she was saying what she thought she needed to say, which -- were I a member of the Republican base -- would have concerned me, not caused me to join in the bizarre level of enthusiasm about her, which was not issue-based.

I agree with you. Alaska and mountain west politics tend to be more libertarian and socially liberal than elsewhere. I linked the article because of his comments on personal attacks. The guy isn't a conservative.

Lyle
07-05-2009, 09:02 AM
I disagree with you. A lot of people don't like the fact that she has son who has downs. They don't like that that makes for good politics or brings her some sympathy. They don't want women or anyone else supporting her over her son Trig. It's pretty simple really. Why else would people focus so long and so hard on Trig not being her son? People are actually that base.

bjkeefe
07-05-2009, 12:02 PM
I disagree with you. A lot of people don't like the fact that she has son who has downs. They don't like that that makes for good politics or brings her some sympathy. They don't want women or anyone else supporting her over her son Trig. It's pretty simple really. Why else would people focus so long and so hard on Trig not being her son? People are actually that base.

Some concrete examples to back up your claims would be nice.

As far as I can tell, the only negative comments "a lot of people" have made in connection with Trig have been in reaction to Palin using him as a campaign prop and her supporters trying to twist legitimate criticisms of Palin (or mockery of her) into "attacks" on Trig and special needs kids in general.

To the specific issue of Trig possibly not being her son, it's really not "people," is it? I will grant that Andrew Sullivan spent a lot of electrons on this and I will acknowledge that it became a running joke meme in comments sections around the Web. I would say, however, that first, a lot of this can be understood as a way to highlight what were even more ludicrous myths propagated about Obama, and second, that however over the top Sullivan went with this, it could have been diffused in a heartbeat by Palin. See the Alaska Daily News for more on this; e.g., here (http://community.adn.com/node/136415) and here (http://community.adn.com/node/136523).

bjkeefe
07-05-2009, 12:47 PM
I will never run out of gas for my waaaaaaaahmbulance.

Apparently the Quitter-in-Chief plans to sue the entire planet, for speculating and asking questions. Start here (http://wonkette.com/409650/insane-sarah-palin-late-at-night-on-july-4-threatens-to-sue-entire-internet-via-twitter).

bjkeefe
07-05-2009, 12:58 PM
Apparently the Quitter-in-Chief plans to sue the entire planet, for speculating and asking questions. Start here (http://wonkette.com/409650/insane-sarah-palin-late-at-night-on-july-4-threatens-to-sue-entire-internet-via-twitter).

One funny tidbit was a link from above that leads to this (http://spiegelman.tumblr.com/post/135527853/how-does-a-post-resignation-sarah-palin-spend-her) (in reference to this Palin tweet (http://twitter.com/AKGovSarahPalin/status/2474752785)):

How does a post-resignation Sarah Palin spend her Fourth of July? By attacking a fake Sarah Palin twitter account (http://twitter.com/govsarahpalin). Which, by the way, hasn’t posted since March 24th, has only three updates (the other two are from before the election), and only 55 followers.

The Governor of Alaska is SUCH a victim.

[Added] I should say, however, that it's not clear how they know Palin is attacking this specific account, since there appears (http://twitter.com/search/users?q=palin&category=people&source=find_on_twitter) to be more than one fake Palin Twitter account out there. Maybe they found the link elsewhere?

The larger point still stands, though. Who in their right mind wastes time being fauxtraged over random Internet things like this? Answer: Sarah Palin and her cult.

Lyle
07-05-2009, 01:38 PM
Trig has was used a campaign prop? How so? He is her son. What is she supposed to do... pretend he doesn't exist? Are President Obama's children "props"? Does he pretend that they don't exist? Are they not photographed with him and on stage with him as well? Do you talk about them like they are props? If not, should they be called props?

The article I linked linked to people pooh poohing Palin over Trin and/or arguing that Trig is not her son. Click on the links next time.

Lyle
07-05-2009, 01:42 PM
Haha, "sue the entire planet" or just the people who said she was about to be indicted by the FBI?

Slander... it's a tort.

bjkeefe
07-05-2009, 01:59 PM
Trig has was used a campaign prop?

Another in the many blue ribbons you win for obtuseness.

The article I linked linked to ...

A blog post by Col. Mustard is not "an article" by any reasonable definition.

Lyle
07-05-2009, 02:03 PM
You link to Firedoglake and your own blog even, come again?

bjkeefe
07-05-2009, 02:24 PM
You link to Firedoglake and your own blog even, come again?

I'm not sure what, if anything, this has to do with my rejecting Legal Insurrection as a credible source. He is a wingnut whose obsessions over trivialities and inclination to distort things beyond belief for purposes of fauxtrage make Michelle Malkin seem broad-minded and objective. However, I will say two things.

First, regarding FDL, this seems a new bug up your ass lately. Please give some examples where I have linked to FDL and explain why you have a problem with those examples. Generally, my links to FDL point to TBogg because I think he's funny and all I'm doing there is sharing the wit. I think I might have linked to Marcy Wheeler (emptywheel) as a source once or twice, because she is, in fact, as much of a journalist as any blogger is. You might, I suppose, if you looked hard, find a few other links to FDL, where I linked to the post mostly because it contained a bunch of other links.

As to linking to my own blog, there are two general motivations. Sometimes it's to point to further comedy; more often it's to point to a post that itself contains a number of supporting links for something I'm trying to substantiate; occasionally it's to note that "I've said more about this elsewhere."

kezboard
07-05-2009, 02:35 PM
I listened to this episode of Skeptoid a couple of days ago, and I think it's fair in general. Although I don't think that anyone who has ever worked in politics would agree with Skeptoid's conclusion that people who are stupid don't get elected to public office (you can't tell me that Rod Blagojevich isn't stupid), I agree that it's not very useful to say that you don't support Sarah Palin because she's stupid, and it's a cop-out, since it means you don't have to engage with her. Ad hominems of that kind (Palin is stupid, Bush is stupid, Obama is an elitist, McCain is old and crazy) are not good arguments.

On the other hand, her answers to Charlie Gibson and Katie Couric were pretty stupid, and I don't think it's unfair to point that out.

kezboard
07-05-2009, 02:59 PM
Yeah, you're wrong.
I've explained why liberals dislike Sarah Palin before. It's very simple. A, we don't agree with her, B, we think there's not much there there and it confuses us, and C, she's annoying and offensive with her talk about real America and real American families, as if I and all my neighbors were somehow fake Americans because of who we vote for and where we live.

Yes, Sarah Palin uses her children as a prop. And worse than that, she uses her children as a stand-in for actual political positions. We're supposed to believe that because she's a regular "hockey mom", she'll make decisions that are in our interest and the interest of ordinary Americans. Give me a break. She wants to have it both ways -- she wants to make her children this symbol of her just-folksiness and maternal wisdom, but she doesn't want anyone to be able to suggest that maybe her family isn't the perfect one she portrays it to be. The Photoshop kerfuffle was something that neither she nor her spokeswoman needed to draw attention to (and it was so OBVIOUSLY not making fun of Trig, but rather of the talk show host whose face was pasted on his) but she did, because it fits the narrative she's constructing of herself as this victim of the big bad liberal media, being persecuted just because she's a good mom. And then she drew attention to it again in the press conference, saying "The world needs more Trigs, not fewer", as if the bloggers who posted this picture were saying that Trig shouldn't exist or something.

Neither Obama, nor Biden, nor McCain used their children for political effect the way Palin did. Certainly all of them were photographed with their parents -- McCain's daughter wrote a blog, Obama's kids had that interview last summer, etc. --- but none of them became the center of the narrative surrounding the candidate like Palin's kids.

There is something about a Down syndrome child in plain view which has exposed the moral and emotional bankruptcy of the left-wing of the Democratic party. And they hate Sarah Palin because deep down, they hate themselves for being who they are.

Right. We hate seeing children with Down's syndrome. And we all hate Sarah Palin because we're jealous of her. Just like we hated George Bush because we're jealous of him. And the right hates Obama because they're jealous of him. Come on.

stephanie
07-05-2009, 03:37 PM
You must have a low threshold for "stupid" Stephanie.

Shrug, I dunno. I just don't see why getting elected to something makes someone not stupid.

I agree with you. Alaska and mountain west politics tend to be more libertarian and socially liberal than elsewhere.

It's partly this, it's partly AK-specific stuff, like the approach to oil revenues and the Mat-Su Valley issues, among other things. I grew up partially in AK and my parents still live there, so had a weird fascination for some of the ways things were being translated.

stephanie
07-05-2009, 03:49 PM
A lot of people don't like the fact that she has son who has downs.

See, to me this is just baseless insult. Why would anyone care that she has a son with Down Syndrome, except to perhaps feel some empathy for her? (And lots of people have sympathetic elements to their biographies without anyone hating them for it. McCain does, for one obvious example.) I read a lot of political commentary and was reading way more prior to the election, when I was somewhat obsessed, and I live in a pretty Blue area right now, surrounded by lots of people with strong negative feelings for Palin (which, as I said, I totally get), and none of it has anything to do with the fact that her son has DS.

On the other hand, I see unsupported claims that the DS is why liberals supposedly don't like her from RWers all the time. (When, like I said, they aren't claiming feminists hate her because she's beautiful.) Perhaps you are falling for those claims.

And again, I do think that her looks and her baby's DS play a role in why a number of RWers were enthusiastic for her, so projection seems a good explanation. Unless it's just an attempt to insult, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say it's projection.

They don't want women or anyone else supporting her over her son Trig.

Interesting. Why would women be particularly likely to support her because of her son's special needs? That sounds rather than GHWB's belief that women would vote for Quayle because he was (allegedly) pretty.

Why else would people focus so long and so hard on Trig not being her son?

People? As bjk said, you mean Andrew Sullivan. God knows, but I assume it's because she seems to have got under his skin with her lying generally, so he is convinced there's a story. (Personally, I think this is nutty of him, and am hardly the only liberal to have said so.)

The source of the "really Bristol's baby" thing was a local rumor in AK and it's salacious and there was little enough known about her that all rumors were being lept on, that's why anyone found it of interest. Or at least that's how I read it. But of course that had nothing to do with the DS (in fact the DS probably dampened it down).

bjkeefe
07-05-2009, 04:00 PM
"What A Difference A Year Makes (http://jezebel.com/5307794/what-a-difference-a-year-makes)"

What pot? What kettle?

(h/t: OW (http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/07/05/sarah-palin-latest-to-forget-she-was-on-tape/))

Lyle
07-05-2009, 07:18 PM
I don't have a problem with Firedoglake. However, you can't degenerate the authority of random conservative posters on the web and then link up to Firedoglake and your own blog when it's absolutely no different (just some people with some views... oooh, special). At least the guy I linked to is a professional and an academic. Firedoglake has got some of them too, but their opinion and yours is no less respectable than some random right-o-center blogger.

If you want respect, you need to have the integrity to show some respect to people that completely disagree with you. Call people wingnuts all day long if you want, but that just makes you one too.

bjkeefe
07-05-2009, 08:00 PM
I don't have a problem with Firedoglake.

Yeah, right, Lial. That must be why you keep whining about how I "always" link to them.

However, you can't degenerate the authority of random conservative posters on the web ...

I have not. I have spoken specifically to Legal Insurrection, a blog you tried to use to support a point, and I have explained why I think that guy is a lunatic. Remember? (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=118659#post118659)

I (and others) have also explained why the claim that "the left is attacking Trig" is hogwash in general, so your linking to this idiot's multi-page drone about this just doubles the point.

You, on the other hand, ...

... and then link up to Firedoglake and your own blog ...

... have failed to give any specific criticism to any of these supposed links, you have not given any examples to show what your problem is, and apparently, you have ignored (or failed to comprehend) my general statements in my previous reply (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=119011#post119011) about why I link to FDL and/or my blog. So, really, all you're doing is non-specific carping, and worse, it's a broken record. Put up or shut up about this complaint.

If you want respect, you need to have the integrity to show some respect to people that completely disagree with you.

I could not possibly care less whether you respect me, Lyle. Why would I? You almost never disagree in any substantive way. All you do is mindlessly contradict. When you're not making asinine accusations about "progressives," I mean.

Call people wingnuts all day long if you want, but that just makes you one too.

Wow. The "I know you are but what am I" retort? What are you, six years old?

Then again, judging by your inability to comprehend what you read, and your endless sobbing about imaginary mean things, I suppose this should not surprise us.

nikkibong
07-05-2009, 10:40 PM
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/07/it-always-has-been-about-trig.html

I don't know why Sarah Palin resigned, what her plans are, or whether she has or wants a political future.

I do know why the left hates her so much. And it keeps coming back to Trig.

Yes, some people hate Sarah Palin because she doesn't have the traditional pedigree, she isn't one of them, she is too good looking to be taken seriously, etc. And yes, some hate her because they hate her religion, politics, blah blah blah. But that doesn't explain the Sarah Palin hatred. It is so deep as to be pathological.

But it keeps coming back to Trig.

Your post is throughly silly from top to bottom, so let me respond narrowly - specifically to your implied contention that Andrew Sullivan is somehow a "progressive." Now, I haven't read Sullivan regularly in years, (not that there's all that much to read of his - from what I can tell, he simply links to other stories and pictures these days), but he is in no way a "progressive." With the exception of his own self-serving support for gay marriage (which he makes a "conservative" argument for, by the way), he's a right winger. (Oh, by the way, and does anyone think he would support gay marriage if he wasn't gay himself?) An anti-tax zealot, a "to hell with 'em hawk," a Ron Paul conspiracy monger and . . .a professional racist. (http://www.slate.com/id/2128199/)

Judging by his own Bell Curvian logic, I could simply argue that Andrew Sullivan is proof of the intellectual inferiority of homosexuals.

So . . . you're right, about the Palin thing, he was kinda nuts. (He seems to have a deep-seated strain of misogony; look at the way he treats Hillary Clinton) But he's no progressive: he's both a certifiable idiot and . . .a certifiable conservative.

claymisher
07-05-2009, 11:13 PM
"What A Difference A Year Makes (http://jezebel.com/5307794/what-a-difference-a-year-makes)"

What pot? What kettle?

(h/t: OW (http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/07/05/sarah-palin-latest-to-forget-she-was-on-tape/))

Unbelievable.

Lyle
07-06-2009, 12:05 PM
You refer to me as "Lial". I'm the six-year old?

bjkeefe
07-06-2009, 12:17 PM
You refer to me as "Lial". I'm the six-year old?

It's to call attention to your lying. But yes, if you insist, I will concede that it's a bit immature to riff on your name.

That does not at all change the reality that overwhelmingly, your contributions to this site are childish -- either kneejerk contradictions, petulance about "progressives," repetition of talk radio tropes, or shoot from the hip responses that show willful obtuseness; i.e., an inability either to read others' arguments or to respond to them honestly.

Starwatcher162536
07-06-2009, 12:32 PM
On the other hand, her answers to Charlie Gibson and Katie Couric were pretty stupid, and I don't think it's unfair to point that out.

Her not knowing what she was talking about, but having to sound like she did, created alot of vapid statements that made her sound alot less intelligent then she probably really is.

It also didn't help that she never really seemed to get into the weeds of policy for anything she seemed to know a great deal about. Take a look at Biden, he said all sorts of stupid crap, yet the idea that Biden is stupid never really took hold, because he also said alot of intelligent things also.

If she comes back in 2012 with a larger reservoir of knowledge, and drops her anti-science shtick, I think she could possible be a serious contender.

Lyle
07-06-2009, 01:09 PM
I don't think she has an anti-science shtick. I think that is the perception, but she's not actually anti-evolution or anti-science. She believes in God, but so does President Obama. Not too mention that so much of Alaska's industry is tied up in mining and oil & gas, which is all about the science and geology. And she backs all those industries.

People seem to be confused by a politician's reaching out to religious people and being anti-science. As far as I know she's not even tried to push a "creationist" bill through the legislature in Alaska or in Wasilla, which has happened in other States like Kansas, Pennsylvania, Louisiana, Texas and elsewhere.

I generally agree with the rest of what you wrote.

bjkeefe
07-06-2009, 02:21 PM
I don't think she has an anti-science shtick.

Depends what you mean by "anti-science." Certainly, Sarah Palin is on record as opposing stem cell research (http://www.google.com/search?q=palin+opposes+stem+cell+research), supporting the teaching of creationism (http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/08/29/palin-creationist/) in schools, saying that anthropogenic global warming is a hoax (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/08/palin-global-wa.html), favoring abstinence-only sex education (http://getenergysmartnow.com/2008/09/02/sarah-palins-ballad-for-john-mccain-what-a-wonderful-world-it-would-be/), and she has a long history of displaying disdain for higher education and intellectualism in general.

Hitchens made a good case about this in October, in a column titled "Sarah Palin's War on Science (http://www.slate.com/id/2203120/)." Here are some excerpts:

... it didn't seem possible that things could go any lower or get any dumber. But they did last Friday, when, at a speech in Pittsburgh, Gov. Sarah Palin denounced (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/24/palin_details_special_needs_po.html?hpid=topnews) wasteful expenditure on fruit-fly research, adding for good xenophobic and anti-elitist measure that some of this research took place "in Paris, France" and winding up with a folksy "I kid you not."

[...]

With Palin, however, the contempt for science may be something a little more sinister than the bluff, empty-headed plain-man's philistinism of McCain. We never get a chance to ask her (http://www.slate.com/id/2202642/) in detail about these things, but she is known to favor the teaching of creationism in schools (smuggling this crazy idea through customs in the innocent disguise of "teaching the argument," as if there was an argument), and so it is at least probable that she believes all creatures from humans to fruit flies were created just as they are now. This would make DNA or any other kind of research pointless, whether conducted in Paris or not. Projects such as sequencing the DNA of the flu virus, the better to inoculate against it, would not need to be funded. We could all expire happily in the name of God. Gov. Palin also says that she doesn't think humans are responsible for global warming; again, one would like to ask her whether, like some of her co-religionists, she is a "premillenial dispensationalist"—in other words, someone who believes that there is no point in protecting and preserving the natural world, since the end of days will soon be upon us.

Videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPmjQ_daNSQ&feature=related) taken in the Assembly of God church in Wasilla, Alaska, which she used to attend, show her nodding as a preacher says that Alaska will be "one of the refuge states in the Last Days." For the uninitiated, this is a reference to a crackpot belief, widely held among those who brood on the "End Times," that some parts of the world will end at different times from others, and Alaska will be a big draw as the heavens darken on account of its wide open spaces. An article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/25/us/politics/25faith.html?partner=permalink&exprod=permalink) by Laurie Goodstein in the New York Times gives further gruesome details of the extreme Pentecostalism with which Palin has been associated in the past (perhaps moderating herself, at least in public, as a political career became more attractive). High points, also available on YouTube, show her being "anointed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwkb9_zB2Pg)" by an African bishop who claims to cast out witches. The term used in the trade for this hysterical superstitious nonsense is "spiritual warfare," in which true Christian soldiers are trained to fight demons. Palin has spoken at "spiritual warfare" events as recently as June. And only last week the chiller from Wasilla spoke of "prayer warriors" in a radio interview (http://www.citizenlink.org/clspecialalert/A000008476.cfm) with James Dobson of Focus on the Family, who said that he and his lovely wife, Shirley, had convened a prayer meeting to beseech that "God's perfect will be done on Nov. 4."

See also, for example, Yarden Katz at MIT (http://tech.mit.edu/V128/N51/katz.html), Lawrence Krauss (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-m-krauss/mccain-risks-becoming-the_b_123366.html), and PZ Myers (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/10/sarah_palin_ignorant_and_antis.php).

Lyle
07-06-2009, 03:14 PM
She never tried to alter the teaching of evolution in Alaskan schools and is on record not wanting to.

She also didn't support abstinence only education nor tried to implement it in Alaskan schools. She supported teaching abstinence as part of sexual education overall (sound science it seems to me).

Her climate change statement to Newsmax is damning though. I won't defend her on this, although I'm with her on drilling in ANWAR and the general idea that we can handle the problems of climate change.

bjkeefe
07-06-2009, 03:49 PM
She never tried to alter the teaching of evolution in Alaskan schools and is on record not wanting to.

This is not clear. She has made statements that she thought the approach should be "teach the controversy," as at least a couple of the links in my previous response (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=119164#post119164) document.

That she didn't try to push it says more about her calculations about political realities, but it is clear where her beliefs lie.

She also didn't support abstinence only education nor tried to implement it in Alaskan schools. She supported teaching abstinence as part of sexual education overall (sound science it seems to me).

The part about her support is just flat-out wrong. Here's an example (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/01/1320417.aspx) documenting it.

[Q:] Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?

Palin: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.

As with the teaching of creationism, that she didn't go all out trying to push abstinence-only programs into law says more about her calculation of what was politically feasible. Neither of these instances rebut the claim that Sarah Palin has an anti-science attitude.

Her climate change statement to Newsmax is damning though. I won't defend her on this ...

Fair enough.

Lyle
07-06-2009, 04:23 PM
She's not ever been for abstinence only education. The quote you linked to was taken out of context. She explained her views on the issue further, perhaps at the same venue this quote was taken from, and talked about not changing the sex ed curriculum in Alaska, but wanting to encourage abstinence being part of the curriculum as well.

The quote linked to doesn't actually support the notion that she favors abstinence only sex ed either.

TalkLeft had a great conversation on this fact in their comments section way back when she was first nominated. One of the law professors at Volokh Conspiracy has also debunked this very quote.

http://www.volokh.com/posts/1220810663.shtml

bjkeefe
07-06-2009, 04:53 PM
She's not ever been for abstinence only education. The quote you linked to was taken out of context.

No, it was taken from a written questionnaire, sent out to all candidates. Since First Read's link to Eagle Forum is now broken, I have found the Wayback Machine's copy of it (http://web.archive.org/web/20070501192322/http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-gubernatorial-candidate.html).

She explained her views on the issue further, perhaps at the same venue this quote was taken from, and talked about not changing the sex ed curriculum in Alaska, but wanting to encourage abstinence being part of the curriculum as well.

See above. This answer was not given at a "venue."

The quote linked to doesn't actually support the notion that she favors abstinence only sex ed either.

Her entire statement is "Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support." That is semantically equivalent to saying she supports (supported at the time of answering at least) abstinence-only sex ed programs in schools.

TalkLeft had a great conversation on this fact in their comments section way back when she was first nominated. One of the law professors at Volokh Conspiracy has also debunked this very quote.

http://www.volokh.com/posts/1220810663.shtml

It is not "debunking" to report that a politician has issued a follow-up statement at a later date; i.e., the fact that she originally gave the answer quoted above is not in dispute.

As I said before, I grant that she did not push very hard for abstinence-only programs to become law, and appears to have tried to walk her original statement back, but I interpret this as her making a political calculation, same as the way she soft-pedaled a few of her other wingnut positions when national attention started getting paid to her.

Anyway, you're getting bogged down on this one point and ignoring where this started: your claim that Sarah Palin does not have an anti-science attitude. Trying to put as favorable a spin as possible on this single issue does not do very much to support your case. I'm done talking about how you view Sarah Palin's views on abstinence-only.

Lyle
07-06-2009, 05:10 PM
We're just going to have to disagree. Our perceptions of what constitutes "anti-science" are just different.

bjkeefe
07-06-2009, 05:49 PM
We're just going to have to disagree. Our perceptions of what constitutes "anti-science" are just different.

Okay.

claymisher
07-06-2009, 08:07 PM
Reihan is still funny out of context:

http://tpmtv.talkingpointsmemo.com/?id=2893755

bjkeefe
07-06-2009, 08:40 PM
Reihan is still funny out of context:

http://tpmtv.talkingpointsmemo.com/?id=2893755

LOL!

Thanks for that.

TwinSwords
07-07-2009, 11:54 AM
Palin (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=8016906&page=1): "I don't need a title to be the one to usher in what it is that needs to be done in our state or our country."

claymisher
07-07-2009, 12:00 PM
Palin (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=8016906&page=1): "I don't need a title to be the one to usher in what it is that needs to be done in our state or our country."

What ever happened to Dan Quayle? He don't look so bad any more.

bjkeefe
07-07-2009, 01:15 PM
"You know why they're confused? I guess they cannot take something nowadays at face value," Palin said.

Gee, I wonder why that is (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fandrewsullivan.theatl antic.com%2Fthe_daily_dish%2F+odd+lies+of+sarah+pa lin), Sarah.

"I know that I know that I know that this is the right thing for Alaska."

On that, we can all agree.

popcorn_karate
07-07-2009, 01:58 PM
Lyle,

I've generally tried to respond to your comments with good intentions, or let them go without a reply - but this "it all comes back to trig" thing your on is just over-the-top stupidity.

get over it! you are really starting to sound pathological.

Lyle
07-07-2009, 03:24 PM
popcorn,

The first post aren't my words. They're copied text from a blog post. I posted part of the post and linked to add to the discussion.

Irregardless do you read Andrew Sullivan's blog? Talk about pathological. Haha.

Lyle
07-07-2009, 04:04 PM
See, to me this is just baseless insult. Why would anyone care that she has a son with Down Syndrome, except to perhaps feel some empathy for her? (And lots of people have sympathetic elements to their biographies without anyone hating them for it. McCain does, for one obvious example.) I read a lot of political commentary and was reading way more prior to the election, when I was somewhat obsessed, and I live in a pretty Blue area right now, surrounded by lots of people with strong negative feelings for Palin (which, as I said, I totally get), and none of it has anything to do with the fact that her son has DS.

On the other hand, I see unsupported claims that the DS is why liberals supposedly don't like her from RWers all the time. (When, like I said, they aren't claiming feminists hate her because she's beautiful.) Perhaps you are falling for those claims.

And again, I do think that her looks and her baby's DS play a role in why a number of RWers were enthusiastic for her, so projection seems a good explanation. Unless it's just an attempt to insult, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say it's projection.

Interesting. Why would women be particularly likely to support her because of her son's special needs? That sounds rather than GHWB's belief that women would vote for Quayle because he was (allegedly) pretty.


Because women tend to be more empathetic than men and can choose their candidates for simple reasons just like anyone else. Some people vote for very simple reasons, like she's a women or he's a man, or he's black or he's white. Not everyone is sophisticated in their choices. People argue that more women should be on the Supreme Court for example, because the Court can have the wisdom of women sitting on the court (doesn't sound awfully bad to me). Some of had even said it is important to have a woman on the court who has had children because they'll understand the needs of the mother.

I probably should have said it differently though. Pro-life women like the fact that she has a downs child. Democrats into hard political numbers don't like that she can draw these women to her in potentially large numbers (not necessarily away from the Democrats, but just out to the polls). Obama is popular with white women and they didn't want more women votes going to McCain thanks to Palin. So you have people out there who see having a downs child scores political points for her and they hate that cause they hate her politics.

There are also feminists who are just anti-motherhood. There are those who think professional women should avoid motherhood for the sake of their careers. They don't believe women can have the best of both worlds and Palin is an example of a woman who does have it to a certain degree. There can be a resentment there I think.

Your point about some conservatives projecting their views on to liberals is well taken. Both sides do do this to each other. My linking this guy's blog post wasn't an attempt to paint all liberals or progressives with the hate of Trig brush. The professor's article mostly focuses on Andrew Sullivan and the myriad other random bloggers who want to believe Sullivan's reporting. The point was to show that there are some really mean spirited people out there and it is all about the politics to them.

bjkeefe
07-07-2009, 04:43 PM
There are also feminists who are just anti-motherhood. There are those who think professional women should avoid motherhood for the sake of their careers. They don't believe women can have the best of both worlds and Palin is an example of a woman who does have it to a certain degree. There can be a resentment there I think.

I would be interested in you giving some links to pieces written by anyone, "anti-motherhood feminist" or not, who expresses "resentment" at Palin having a family and a career. Not links to conservatives claiming this phenomenon exists; links to actual primary sources. Not links to people idly wondering if she can do a good job as a VP because of demands on her time; links to articles expressing this resentment that you believe exists.

I bet you will not be able to find any. This really sounds like as much of a made-up wingnut talking point as claims about supposed hatred for Trig.

bjkeefe
07-07-2009, 09:55 PM
friend.

Irregardless ... Haha.

nikkibong
07-08-2009, 04:17 AM
. . . as this poll (http://www.newser.com/story/63813/quitting-boosts-palin-among-gop-voters.html) indicates, they really are idiots.

bjkeefe
07-08-2009, 04:35 AM
. . . as this poll (http://www.newser.com/story/63813/quitting-boosts-palin-among-gop-voters.html) indicates, they really are idiots.

Heh. I have to think a good chunk of those approving votes are just general expressions of resentment because The Media and The Left (same thing!) forced her out of office with their meanness.

Plus, the total number reported for the Republican voters surveyed (72%) appears to have added the "very likelies" to the "somewhat likelies." (Related Gallup post (http://www.gallup.com/poll/121514/Americans-Political-Future-Palin.aspx) confirms this.) Saying you're "somewhat likely" to vote for someone three and a half years from now is basically saying "I like to keep my options open." Or, less politely, "Given that my only other choices at the moment appear to be Romney and Huckabee, what the hell else am I supposed to say?"

stephanie
07-08-2009, 10:41 AM
. . . as this poll (http://www.newser.com/story/63813/quitting-boosts-palin-among-gop-voters.html) indicates, they really are idiots.

I'm not normally much of a Heather Mac Donald fan, but I admit to having some sympathy for her opinion on the Palin thing. The initial response is here (http://secularright.org/wordpress/?p=2245), but the comments are more interesting. I especially liked her in comment #8.

Hoo, boy. Just watched the video. What an embarrassment–rambling, illogical–pure Sarah, in other words. And what gall. She dares to present her quitting as an act of courage? And by what law would she be inevitably “wasting” taxpayer dollars having decided not to seek a second term? “Some Alaskans don’t mind wasting public dollars and state time. I do. I cannot stand here as your Governor and allow millions upon millions of our dollars go to waste just so I can hold the title of Governor. And my children won’t allow it either.” So she has no capacity to govern responsibly absent reelection pressures?

Nice that she now decides that Trig needs her, since such maternal considerations didn’t seem to inhibit her run at the highest office in the land (as POTUS in waiting). And I am highly skeptical that anyone would have made “mean-spirited” comments about him.*

If she really is so down-to-earth, why doesn’t she just come out and say: “I’m running for president.” Oh, but she is now on record as turned off by “superficial wasteful political bloodsport,” as opposed to fighting abroad, so that must not be her agenda.

It is beyond me how anyone would not be repulsed by such a pathetic effort at self-justification, even if it were more coherently presented. But at least she prayed before reaching her decision, so we know that she is a person of faith and thus a True American.

*My note: I don't see this as suggesting that Mac Donald criticized Palin for running when she had small children, to ford off that predictable retort. She's saying that if the children are going to be used as an excuse now, that calls into question the actions before. In other words, Mac Donald is not saying what mothers should or shouldn't do, she's calling Palin a hypocrite.

stephanie
07-08-2009, 11:05 AM
Because women tend to be more empathetic than men and can choose their candidates for simple reasons just like anyone else.

Well, nice as it might be to agree with that and congratulate myself for my empathy, I don't really think it's true. Women can be particularly critical of other women and, IME and from what I've seen of the (always flawed) studies about this, no more likely to be empathetic generally. In fact, if anything I think part of the Palin-effect could be women being not so likely to like a candidate just because she is a woman (something I think McCain miscalculated some).

Some of had even said it is important to have a woman on the court who has had children because they'll understand the needs of the mother.

I'm not so inclined to agree with this (I do think it is more of a plus factor to elect women to Congress and such, including mothers), because I tend to take a more conservative view on the Court (not the conservatives today really seem to). That is, I'm not as comfortable with the idea of "empathy" as a basis for decision if it is used to mean having sympathy for the parties (or one of them) and wanting to help them as the basis for a judicial decision. That is because in our system the rule of law that results will be used in other cases, perhaps with a different effect. The old hard cases make bad law truism. I prefer justice is blind. Not to say I'm not happy about some diversity on the court and given the number of qualified women available if certainly seems appropriate to choose a woman from among the various possibilities, but in reality the Court is never going to reflect America. It's going to be full of people with a particular approach to the law and educational background and life experience (work life, I mean now) that is largely unlike the typical. And IMO, that's not at all a bad thing.

In fact, to bring this disgression back to topic, apparently there are numerous people in this country who think Sarah Palin would be fabulous on the SC. (Granted, they haven't been polled on that, but I bet most of her supporters would be just fine and dandy with that idea.) Horrifying.

I probably should have said it differently though. Pro-life women like the fact that she has a downs child.

This doesn't seem like a woman thing. Lots of pro choice activist types seem to have become enthusiastic about her in part due to her decision to walk the walk and have Trig, sure, and that she can supposedly present a more sympathetic face to their issues. (It hasn't turned out like that, IMO, because she's not good at appealing beyond her base, at least not as she was rolled out on the national stage.) But is this really something that makes her a huge threat among pro life women likely to vote Dem. I don't think so and, more importantly, I don't think some generic fear of that is likely to cause hatred of Palin, let alone her baby, who has nothing to do with it himself.

Like I said before, I don't think people hate politicians in the way they hated Palin (and others, from Clinton to Bush) simply because of some fear of their appeal. It's generally something personal about the politician or what the politician represents. And it certainly wouldn't lead you to hate the supposed asset. That's like saying that Republicans hated Hillary because they thought she was an asset for Clinton among some swing-voting women (which was likely true in '92). But is that why they hated Hillary? Or is it things that Hillary herself represents and her own persona. The latter feels much more true to me. (Similarly, I have despised Edwards since well before the news of the affair. There are a variety of reasons, but the basic one is that he seems like some combination of used car salesman and TV preacher to me. His wife is one of his strengths, clearly, yet I was able to like her and hate him, no problem.)

I'll answer the remainder of your post in my next post. Sorry to be so long-winded here.

stephanie
07-08-2009, 11:28 AM
There are also feminists who are just anti-motherhood. There are those who think professional women should avoid motherhood for the sake of their careers. They don't believe women can have the best of both worlds and Palin is an example of a woman who does have it to a certain degree. There can be a resentment there I think.

I wrote a response on this, but it ended up feeling redundant. Basically, I agree with bjk's post on this topic. The subsection of people who fall into this category is extremely small to non-existent, despite the desire of the RW media to portray it as significant (this is basically just a slur, which possibly works in those areas of the country where it's more unusual for women to call themselves feminists, even if they share the basic feminist goals and values).

I did hear the notion that Palin shouldn't have run with a small child or a child with DS, but almost exclusively from rightwing women or moderates who were not politically involved.

bjkeefe
07-08-2009, 01:36 PM
Well, nice as it might be to agree with that and congratulate myself for my empathy, I don't really think it's true. Women can be particularly critical of other women and, IME and from what I've seen of the (always flawed) studies about this, no more likely to be empathetic generally. In fact, if anything I think part of the Palin-effect could be women being not so likely to like a candidate just because she is a woman (something I think McCain miscalculated some).

I agree with this. If there was a place where resentment was expressed by feminists, not to mention women in general, not to mention people in general, it was at the perception that McCain thought he would be able to gain a large amount of support by virtue of his pick, just because she had lady parts. I've never seen data on this, but I would bet that for every disgruntled-at-the-treatment-she-received Hillary supporter McCain attracted by picking Palin (i.e., those driven solely by the appeal to solidarity of the sisterhood), he tipped at least two others away from him by the apparent cynicism of his choice.

(Similarly, I have despised Edwards since well before the news of the affair. There are a variety of reasons, but the basic one is that he seems like some combination of used car salesman and TV preacher to me. ...)

Another place where we agree. In fact, my revulsion was so pronounced I used to feel bad about it, and it was almost a relief to have something sordid about him come out.

bjkeefe
07-08-2009, 01:44 PM
Sorry for going O/T, but this caught my eye:

... to ford off that predictable retort.

Is this a construction you used on purpose, and use regularly? I am aware of to fend off and to ward off, and I wonder if somehow you have averaged the two in your mind, so to speak. I don't think I've seen the phrase to ford off before.

Just curious.

Trying to get back on the path ...

I'm not normally much of a Heather Mac Donald fan ..

Me, either, but I do like where she comes from some of the time, and her prickly anti-theoidiocy is one of those places. From the end of the comment you quoted:

It is beyond me how anyone would not be repulsed by such a pathetic effort at self-justification, even if it were more coherently presented. But at least she prayed before reaching her decision, so we know that she is a person of faith and thus a True American.

Assuming she did, and I have no reason to doubt her claim on this at least, what Palin is saying really amount to nothing more than "I have thought hard about this." Which should be sufficient. It's the elevation of her decision as somehow unarguably correct because she called her contemplation prayer that drives me (and Heather) bananas, and good for Heather for saying so, and for reminding her readers that Palin holds this attitude of un-Americanism regarding anyone not equally addled by her superstitions.

Lyle
07-08-2009, 02:24 PM
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/07/08/reader_letters/

stephanie
07-08-2009, 02:40 PM
I am aware of to fend off and to ward off, and I wonder if somehow you have averaged the two in your mind, so to speak.

Yeah, that's clearly what I did. Weird and somewhat embarassing, although impressive that you figured out the source of the word (which I kind of like, but can't defend as a coinage, rather than just a goof). Noticed a number of typos in the longer post too. Oh, well.

uncle ebeneezer
07-08-2009, 03:09 PM
I thought of "fording" a river when I read that expression, but I knew exactly what it meant. That's one thing I love about the living nature of language, our brains are remarkably adept at reaching conclusions based on insufficient or new information, (Pinker goes into this territory rather well in How the Mind Works, and Stuff of Thought) despite the protests of the language police ;-)

bjkeefe
07-08-2009, 03:15 PM
I thought of "fording" a river when I read that expression, but I knew exactly what it meant. That's one thing I love about the living nature of language, our brains are remarkably adept at reaching conclusions based on insufficient or new information, ...

Yes, and even more impressive, information that is flat-out wrong in some sense. It never fails to amaze me how often "you know what I mean(t)" is a true statement, no matter how opposite a literal reading would indicate.

bjkeefe
07-08-2009, 03:22 PM
Yeah, that's clearly what I did. Weird and somewhat embarassing, although impressive that you figured out the source of the word (which I kind of like, but can't defend as a coinage, rather than just a goof). Noticed a number of typos in the longer post too. Oh, well.

Thanks for the response. Not to worry, if it needs saying. Happens to all of us all the time, and it's fascinating how proofreading one's own words so often fails, no matter how much effort is put into it. I often put the where I meant that and vice versa, for example, and nearly every time I type Dawkins I actually first type Dawking or Dawkings and have to hit the backspace key. (That time, too.)

SkepticDoc
07-08-2009, 03:31 PM
Yes, and even more impressive, information that is flat-out wrong in some sense. It never fails to amaze me how often "you know what I mean(t)" is a true statement, no matter how opposite a literal reading would indicate.

Maybe that is what Sarah thinks, that most people think they know what she is trying to communicate, even when the spoken dribble is transcribed to nonsensical and utterly false statements.

I fear for the future of our country when a lot of people like her, just like they liked Bush 43.

Is there a liberal Machiavellian strategist anywhere? SOS, SOS...

bjkeefe
07-08-2009, 03:43 PM
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2009/07/08/reader_letters/

Why provide more fodder for the vultures and harpies of the Northeastern media?

Said the graduate of Yale and long-time columnist and resident of the northeastern city of Philadelphia, who is probably best known for her confrontational criticism of other people's thoughts.

Unfortunately, it's pretty obvious that Palin still lacks that cadre of trusted pros who are the invisible elves behind every successful national politician -- the assistants who gather and vet material and who filter proposals and plan logistics. In a way, this is part of her virtues ...

Quite right. It cannot possibly be the case that after being a mayor and a governor, Sarah Palin should be expected to display the first requirements of any executive -- to hire a capable staff and identify competent advisors. In SarahWorld, the standards by which others are judged matter not a whit. NOR SHOULD THEY, OR ELSE YOU'RE A SEXIST ELITIST.

Of course you'd never know that from reading hit jobs like Todd Purdum's sepulchral piece on Palin in the current Vanity Fair. Scurrying around Alaska with his notepad, Purdum still managed to find comically little to indict her with.

Which certainly explains why Palin and her fans were so easily able to laugh off Purdum's piece as not worth their attention.

Hey, wake up -- Palin cleaned Biden's clock!

Okay, this assertion is so detached from reality, or so indicative of the subzero bar which Paglia sets for Palin alone, that simple sarcasm cannot compete.

The vicious double standard is pretty obvious. Only the tabloids, for example, ran the photos of a piss-drunk Chelsea Clinton, panties exposed, falling into her car outside London clubs a few years ago. If Chelsea had been the scion of Republican bigwigs, those tacky scenes would have been trumpeted from pillar to post in the U.S. as signals of parental failures or turmoil in clan Clinton.

Yes, I remember how impressed I was by the restraint displayed by Republican and conservative talking heads regarding the fitness of the Clintons as parents. Also, I agree that the frequency with which everyone from the New York Times to the San Francisco Chronicle publish pictures of Sarah Palin's daughters drunk and disrobed is nothing short of a disgrace.

.....................

Oh, let's not waste any more time. The only difference between Paglia and Palin's word salads is that Camille's features a snootier brand of dressing.

bjkeefe
07-08-2009, 03:49 PM
Maybe that is what Sarah thinks, that most people think they know what she is trying to communicate, even when the spoken dribble is transcribed to nonsensical and utterly false statements.

Perhaps, although she spends so much time saying "that's not what I meant" and "you didn't understand" that I'm dubious.

I fear for the future of our country when a lot of people like her, just like they liked Bush 43.

Not to worry. She'll never attract more than a small slice of the population. When it comes time to cast ballots, most of those who find saying they like her a comforting way to get back at the coastaleliteleftistbeltwaymediainsiders will think Iquitarod, and that'll be the end of that.

Is there liberal Machiavellian strategist anywhere? SOS, SOS...

Haven't you heard? ALL liberals are amoral manipulators.

uncle ebeneezer
07-08-2009, 03:53 PM
It also gets rather interesting when you throw in hallucinogens. I've had times when me and friends were all on mushrooms and suffering from the inability to speak in anything more than quick little soundbite blurbs because your brain wants to move on to another subject before you have even completed the initial thought you were trying to formulate. So you get sentences that go from Jimi Hendrix guitar solo on Red House to how good would a slice of pizza be to the wonders of the Universe to your ex-girlfriend etc. all in a span of (seemingly) moments and yet everyone seems to be totally on the same page and following the (il)logical flow of it all. I'm sure that alot of stuff gets lost in translation but I'm also usually amazed at how much communication must evidently be processed effectively in such a state considering that certain "projects" like finding a girls sandals on a beach at night, actually managed to get accomplished with no small amount of coordination between several people all in such a confused mental state.

Another interesting thing is that when somebody who is NOT in the same state, wanders in, their language seems almost undecipherably foreign.

bjkeefe
07-08-2009, 04:02 PM
It also gets rather interesting when you throw in hallucinogens. [...]

I know exactly what you mean, although once I heard someone say, "I can't decide whether what happened was amazing, or just that the drugs made us feel amazed," I've never been quite as sure. I guess I now think the tendency is to remember the moments of inexplicable connection and forget all the hours of "Wha'? Wha'?"

But there is no doubt that experiencing those connections was a lot of fun, however unremarkable or infrequent they might actually have been.

uncle ebeneezer
07-08-2009, 04:28 PM
I would lean towards the making-us-feel-amazed thesis more than any talk of a brief portal into some magical, usually inaccessible world (as much fun as it is to pontificate on that.) The bigger question that arises (one that Horgan explored in Rational Mysticism) is: what is the difference between my psilocybin experience, Bob's weed experience, and Barbara Hagerty's Jesus experience? Or feeling that something is a moral truth? (the feeling aspect of the experience not the rational justification.)

bjkeefe
07-08-2009, 04:48 PM
[...] The bigger question that arises (one that Horgan explored in Rational Mysticism) is: what is the difference between my psilocybin experience, Bob's weed experience, and Barbara Hagerty's Jesus experience? Or feeling that something is a moral truth? (the feeling aspect of the experience not the rational justification.)

My own view? None. They are all manifestations of the same underlying mechanisms.

SkepticDoc
07-08-2009, 05:55 PM
K. Rove is reportedly an agnostic that manipulated the conservative religious fervor to bring the Republicans to power.

I feel disappointed in the lack of real change after "O" took office...

I have several female patients that are of average or above average intelligence that feel a "connection" to Sarah, I would not be surprised if she really became a contender for 2012, after all "W" was reelected and the conservative machinery likes her...

bjkeefe
07-08-2009, 06:06 PM
I have several female patients that are of average or above average intelligence that feel a "connection" to Sarah, I would not be surprised if she really became a contender for 2012, after all "W" was reelected and the conservative machinery likes her...

Depending on how you define "contender," I'll take that bet.

I think there's a good choice she will "explore" a run, and when it goes nowhere, she'll deny that she had any plans to run. And then she'll blame "those in the media and elsewhere." Again. Also.

Lyle
07-08-2009, 06:25 PM
http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/2009/07/04/feminists-and-the-mystery-of-sarah-palin/

http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/2009/07/08/youre-not-listening-to-me/

http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/2009/07/06/comments-from-the-giant-thread-inside-the-mind-of-a-former-palin-hater/

bjkeefe
07-08-2009, 11:58 PM
From Greg Sargent (http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/republican-party/key-reason-palin-gave-for-quitting-appears-to-be-false/), via John Cole (http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=23794) (emph. added):

Key Reason Palin Gave For Quitting May Be False

One of the chief reasons Sarah Palin has given for resigning as Governor of Alaska is that her state’s taxpayers are being forced to spend money defending her government against ethics complaints that would otherwise fund teachers, cops, and road repair.

But in response to our questions, a spokesperson for the Alaska governor’s office just gave us new information that casts serious doubt on this assertion. The revelation makes the resignation episode even stranger, and raises fresh questions about the real reasons for her abrupt departure.

During her resignation speech last week, Palin presented herself as a heroic defender of the taxpayer. She said that money being spent on government lawyers to defend against these “frivolous ethics violations” could be “going to things that are very important, like troopers and roads and teachers and fish research.” Palin repeated (http://www.adn.com/palin/story/855907.html) exactly the same point this week.

But David Murrow, a spokesperson for the Governor, said in an interview that much of this money was budgeted to the lawyers in advance and would have gone to them anyway, even if state lawyers hadn’t been defending against these ethics complaints.

In response to our questions, the Governor’s office provided us with a detailed breakdown (http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/records-costs-attachment-2.pdf) of the millions Palin has claimed has gone to defending against ethics complaints. It does list roughly $1.9 million in expenditures.

But Murrow, the spokesperson, acknowledged to our reporter, Amanda Erickson, that this total was arrived at by adding up attorney hours spent on fending off complaints — based on the fixed salaries of lawyers in the governor’s office and the Department of Law. The money would have gone to the lawyers no matter what they were doing. The complaints are “just distracting them from other duties,” Murrow said.

In other words, while these lawyers might have been free to do other legal work for the state, the ethics complaints have apparently not had the real world impact Palin has claimed, and didn’t drain money away from cops, teachers, roads and other things.

Similarly, TPM reports (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/only_three_palin_ethics_complaint_were_still_pendi .php) that there are only three ethics complaints outstanding against the Palin administration in any case — which, combined with the above, casts serious doubts on one of her chief stated reasons for quitting.

Murrow has not responded to folllow-up questions asking him to explain how this squares with Palin’s claims. We’ll update you if he does.

And don't fail to follow that TPM link in the penultimate paragraph.

bjkeefe
07-09-2009, 03:33 AM
Steve M. (http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2009/07/what-palins-doing-on-her-fishing.html) has the answer.

kezboard
07-09-2009, 01:46 PM
Every time I read Paglia's column, I'm reminded of how much of a weirdo she is.

The sad truth is that the hottest lesbo scenes ever committed to film were enacted by straight women...After a lifetime of observation, I must regretfully conclude that men make everything hotter -- whether in gay or straight porn. I don't mean men have to be concretely present, only implied as the ultimate audience for primo sexual display. Let's turn from Nordic Samantha Ryan to two Brazilian peacocks on parade -- Daniela Mercury and another singer, Aline Rosa, in their now notorious kiss on a TV show last year, clearly a homage to the Madonna-Britney Spears caper of 2005...The entire erotic charge of this flamenco-like pas de deux comes from the confident heterosexuality of both women, who project a natural bisexual responsiveness that I think is terrific.

As a woman who likes sleeping with women (http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2000/08/24paglia.html), I think she has issues. Her fetish for traditional femininity, specifically the kind of traditional femininity she can imagine ravishing with the giant, masculine, Greco-Roman rod she would have if her body matched her brain, probably explains her opinions on Palin. Yeah, I went there.

bjkeefe
07-09-2009, 01:59 PM
Every time I read Paglia's column, I'm reminded of how much of a weirdo she is.

[...]

As a woman who likes sleeping with women (http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2000/08/24paglia.html), I think she has issues. Her fetish for traditional femininity, specifically the kind of traditional femininity she can imagine ravishing with the giant, masculine, Greco-Roman rod she would have if her body matched her brain, probably explains her opinions on Palin. Yeah, I went there.

Wow. That McSweeney's piece is impressive. I applaud not least the effort of wading through the torrents of Paglia sewage to collect those nuggets.

Do you think Paglia really has the issues you describe? I can never decide whether I think so, too, or whether she has decided that the easiest way she can keep cranking out columns and garnering attention is to say with a straight face (pun not intended) the most bizarre things she can think up. In these moments, her shtick strikes me as nothing other than a more flowery version of the Slate-style fetish for double-reverse-with-a-half-twist knee-jerk contrarianism.

claymisher
07-09-2009, 02:12 PM
Wow. That McSweeney's piece is impressive. I applaud not least the effort of wading through the torrents of Paglia sewage to collect those nuggets.

Do you think Paglia really has the issues you describe? I can never decide whether I think so, too, or whether she has decided that the easiest way she can keep cranking out columns and garnering attention is to say with a straight face (pun not intended) the most bizarre things she can think up. In these moments, her shtick strikes me as nothing other than a more flowery version of the Slate-style fetish for double-reverse-with-a-half-twist knee-jerk contrarianism.

Yep. Reminds me of Althouse.

Lyle
07-09-2009, 02:46 PM
Every time I read Paglia's column, I'm reminded of how much of a weirdo she is.

As a woman who likes sleeping with women (http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2000/08/24paglia.html), I think she has issues. Her fetish for traditional femininity, specifically the kind of traditional femininity she can imagine ravishing with the giant, masculine, Greco-Roman rod she would have if her body matched her brain, probably explains her opinions on Palin. Yeah, I went there.

I thought liberals liked weird and complicated people... not squares? Progressivism is all about people being the same and thinking the same, I guess. :)

bjkeefe
07-09-2009, 02:57 PM
I thought liberals liked weird and complicated people... not squares? Progressivism is all about people being the same and thinking the same, I guess. :)

Classic wingnut simplistic "thinking." Because liberals are generally more tolerant of a wider range of views, it must mean that we are never allowed to call a boneheaded idea a boneheaded idea, amirite?

The vapidity of your arguments never fails to astonish.

Lyle
07-09-2009, 03:26 PM
Classic wingnut simplistic "thinking." Because liberals are generally more tolerant of a wider range of views, it must mean that we are never allowed to call a boneheaded idea a boneheaded idea, amirite?

The vapidity of your arguments never fails to astonish.

Kezboard said she is a weirdo and has sexuality issues. That has what to do with ideas?

bjkeefe
07-09-2009, 03:50 PM
Kezboard said she is a weirdo and has sexuality issues. That has what to do with ideas?

What kez gave were proposed explanations for what are boneheaded ideas.

Probably would have been better not to use the word ideas to characterize Paglia's gibberish, though, so you're right about that.

claymisher
07-09-2009, 04:13 PM
Kezboard said she is a weirdo and has sexuality issues. That has what to do with ideas?

Good lord, all you do is whine about how everbody argues the wrong way. If we're all too dumb for you just go away.

kezboard
07-09-2009, 06:56 PM
I'm not saying she's wrong because she's a weirdo with sexuality issues. I'm not even saying I dislike her because of it. I don't dislike Camille Paglia; I think she's entertaining always, at best thought-provoking, and at worst ignorable. I would not ever date someone with the issues Paglia seems to have, but that's OK, because she's only attracted to straight women anyway, and she's older than my mom.

Most of what Paglia writes in her column falls into the category of "not even wrong". None of her comments about Palin (from "a new muscular American feminism" on down) have ever been real substantive arguments about why she's a good politician. What does Paglia think about offshore drilling? I dunno. But I'm sure she thinks "Drill, baby, drill" is a great chant because muscular, sassy, and cute, all at once. I'm just making a sort of speculation about why Paglia's so susceptible to this kind of thing.

The other possibility, aside from her sexual issues*, is that Palin is the perfect counterpart to the feminist straw man (woman, I guess) that she's been setting up for her whole career. In her piece last September on Palin (http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/09/10/palin/), she spent paragraphs and paragraphs calling feminists anti-sex, anti-beauty, anti-motherhood, and dogmatically and single-mindedly obsessed with abortion rights and unable to think about the political and moral implications of abortion. I mean, the picture of feminism she paints might have been realistic for two seconds in the eighties. But she's deliberately choosing to ignore decades worth of feminist thought on the morality, ethics, and politics of sex, motherhood, abortion, etc., and it's silly. Did Catharine MacKinnon kick her dog or something?

*No, but I'm totally serious about this. I think what Paglia means in her response to the last letter is that it's not that she's more attracted to feminine women or anything like that, but that she's attracted to women who try to be attractive to men. That's legitimate -- I mean, what turns you on is what turns you on -- but I'm just saying, it's kind of weird. And then saying that real lesbians don't make sexy enough movie lesbians? Weird.

kezboard
07-09-2009, 07:10 PM
You know, I'm not sure she believes it. I was actually thinking, while I was writing the above post, that Paglia might totally just be saying that she's more attracted to straight women so that she can separate herself from the lesbian madding crowd and be even more of a dissident. I have no idea of knowing whether that's true or not. I totally agree with you and claymisher that she's cut from the same Slatey contrarian mold that Althouse is, which is probably why I like her. There are things I can't stand about her, but it's mostly her occasionally silly writing style, her going on and on about what a feisty Italian she is and other autobiographical blather (in this column we got "As the product of Mediterranean wine culture, I follow the well-worn path of Dionysian liquor"), and her really dumb dismissals of political positions she doesn't agree with.

But I'm going to take her at her word, just because it doesn't seem very useful to accuse her of posturing. And because, even if she is just posturing, don't you think she's been doing this long enough and she's old enough that it's probably indistinguishable from her actual thoughts?

bjkeefe
07-09-2009, 07:26 PM
You know, I'm not sure she believes it. I was actually thinking, while I was writing the above post, ...

Which was impressive.

... that Paglia might totally just be saying that she's more attracted to straight women so that she can separate herself from the lesbian madding crowd and be even more of a dissident. I have no idea of knowing whether that's true or not. I totally agree with you and claymisher that she's cut from the same Slatey contrarian mold that Althouse is, which is probably why I like her.

An unshared taste. I like when someone can buck the conventional wisdom, but contrarianism as a pronounced tic eventually indicates to me a lack of original thought. It's as though such a person is just smart enough (and practiced enough) to be able to come up with an argument that kinda sorta hangs together if you don't tug on it too hard, but is never able to come up with anything of his or her own to say. It's all REaction, it seems either shallow or lazy or both, and as you noted in your other post, it too often gets to a place of "not even wrong." This makes listening to or engaging with such a person feel fatiguing and pointless. I am reminded of dealing with a child who has just learned how to say NO.

There are things I can't stand about her, but it's mostly her occasionally silly writing style, her going on and on about what a feisty Italian she is and other autobiographical blather (in this column we got "As the product of Mediterranean wine culture, I follow the well-worn path of Dionysian liquor"), and her really dumb dismissals of political positions she doesn't agree with.

But I'm going to take her at her word, just because it doesn't seem very useful to accuse her of posturing. And because, even if she is just posturing, don't you think she's been doing this long enough and she's old enough that it's probably indistinguishable from her actual thoughts?

Hard to argue with that last part, I suppose.

I remember once reading a article about an actress who had been on a soap opera for decades, literally, and had in real life become so much like her on-screen character that it had become comical. Among other anecdotes, a friend reported that this actress had recently started throwing dinner parties, which was unfortunate, because the onscreen character's supposed abilities as a gourmet chef did not at all carry over.

I guess I could think of Paglia that way, the next time I get the urge to be charitable towards her. Meanwhile, she's taking up a slot at an important magazine and collecting a paycheck that could be going to someone more worthy.

claymisher
07-09-2009, 08:15 PM
I'm not saying she's wrong because she's a weirdo with sexuality issues. I'm not even saying I dislike her because of it. I don't dislike Camille Paglia; I think she's entertaining always, at best thought-provoking, and at worst ignorable. I would not ever date someone with the issues Paglia seems to have, but that's OK, because she's only attracted to straight women anyway, and she's older than my mom.

Most of what Paglia writes in her column falls into the category of "not even wrong". None of her comments about Palin (from "a new muscular American feminism" on down) have ever been real substantive arguments about why she's a good politician. What does Paglia think about offshore drilling? I dunno. But I'm sure she thinks "Drill, baby, drill" is a great chant because muscular, sassy, and cute, all at once. I'm just making a sort of speculation about why Paglia's so susceptible to this kind of thing.


Astute!

You got me thinking ... I think what Paglia and her kind do is turn everything into a question of aesthetics. As if reality were just literature, and whatever creative interpretations you come up with are judged not by their validity or their consequences (however dire: President Palin), but by their degree of cleverness or whimsicality. I think that sort of thing is just laziness (it saves you the trouble of reading the Statistical Abstract (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/)) but I guess if it's entertaining it's alright.

I suppose you could use the aesthetic approach instrumentally, but I can't think of anyone who does.

Lyle
07-10-2009, 12:05 AM
Yeah, yeah... I know that post of yours wasn't that serious. I couldn't resist taking a pot shot at it though. :)

I agree with you that Paglia's interest in Palin has a lot to do with the fact that Palin is the antithesis of the status quo, generic, women's center feminist. She infuriates liberal women and Paglia's response is "like cool". I'm with Paglia though, I love seeing the status quo squirm.

I'm SO awesome!
07-10-2009, 12:23 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090710/ap_on_re_us/us_palin_resignation

hey, i think my guess was right. it's about tha $$$.

popcorn_karate
07-10-2009, 03:20 PM
Paglia and her kind do is turn everything into a question of aesthetics. As if reality were just literature,

i think you nailed it, Clay. and what is really disturbing about it is that you get the sense that they have zero empathy or compassion for the people that are, or would be, affected. who cares if a president Palin completely ruined the country - it would such a great plot twist! etc etc.

claymisher
07-10-2009, 09:14 PM
i think you nailed it, Clay. and what is really disturbing about it is that you get the sense that they have zero empathy or compassion for the people that are, or would be, affected. who cares if a president Palin completely ruined the country - it would such a great plot twist! etc etc.

Aw, thanks. I was proud of that one. :) Props to kezb for the inspiration.

Lyle
07-11-2009, 12:04 AM
I don't actually think Sarah Palin is Presidential material. I stated a while back that I think she probably, is at best, capable of being a cabinet level figurehead. Could she be the President though? Yeah, she could... just like Al Franken or Sonny Bono could be a Senator and a Representative.

I disagree we with you though when you say she would ruin the country. How would she ruin the country? What what would ruining the country entail? Sarah Palin is probably more intelligent than George W. Bush and more self-motivated than George W. Bush, so I don't think she'd do any worse than him... and President Obama is carrying on plenty of W's domestic and foreign policies.

If anyone is or will ruin our country is not likely going to be a President, but our Congress who actually controls our taxes and makes law. They inability or unwillingness to tackle all kinds of issues is a problem (has been forever really).

bjkeefe
07-11-2009, 11:23 PM
Donald Craig Mitchell, an attorney living in Anchorage, Alaska, has a long piece up on Alaska Dispatch titled "Palin: How she gained control and then lost it (http://www.alaskadispatch.com/palin-watch/1283-palin-how-she-gained-control-and-then-lost-it)." Part of it is interesting speculation about why she quit; much of it is a detailed review of Palin's rise through Alaska politics, which Mitchell uses to draw parallels to the present. There was a fair amount that was new to me, and I found it intriguing.

(h/t: Andrew Sullivan (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/07/the-rise-and-fall-of-a-delusional-celebrity.html))

SkepticDoc
07-13-2009, 07:35 PM
http://www.sarahpac.com/landing/?cdtrack_creative=798e6466-9438-4da5-8fb1-5720b26fab9c&cdtrack_source=6766ecf9-5d7e-4988-ba24-e120e6fe0873

This was a Google click ad on the BHTV home page!

If somebody was devious, they could click numerous times to rack up the Google Ad bill....

nikkibong
07-14-2009, 05:01 AM
Palin simply walks away from her job . . .


. . . and is rewarded with space (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/13/AR2009071302852.html?hpid%3Dopinionsbox1&sub=AR) in that center of the liberal media, the Washington Post.

Pathetic.

bjkeefe
07-14-2009, 05:48 AM
Palin simply walks away from her job . . .


. . . and is rewarded with space (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/13/AR2009071302852.html?hpid%3Dopinionsbox1&sub=AR) in that center of the liberal media, the Washington Post.

Pathetic.

Heh. Yeah. The WaPo op-ed page is sinking to the level of the WSJ.

It's nice to see that Palin probably actually wrote this herself, I guess. Did you know, by the way, that coal had built-in, self-improving intelligence? True story, according to our Sarah, and as Honest John McCain (http://thepage.time.com/2008/09/11/mccain-palin-the-country%E2%80%99s-top-energy-expert/) assured us, she is the nation's top energy expert:

Many states have abundant coal, whose technology is continuously making it into a cleaner energy source.

Of course, gotta fluff out that victim cloak right away:

Unfortunately, many in the national media would rather focus on the personality-driven political gossip of the day than on the gravity of these challenges. So, at risk of disappointing the chattering class ...

Gotta love it when someone with an unquenchable thirst for the spotlight complains about the spotlight.

And where would we be without exclamation points ("more expensive!") and an invocation of Patriot Jesus ("tap the resources that God created right underfoot on American soil")?

Also nice to see that she's still lying -- once again quoting Obama out of context from an interview he did over 18 months ago, and pretending he just the other day said "necessarily skyrocket." Here is some context and fact-checking from your humble servant from last November (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showthread.php?p=96440&highlight=necessarily+skyrocket#post96440) (some scrolling required). Here is some from Politifact (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jun/11/mike-pence/pence-claims-obama-said-energy-costs-will-skyrocke/), from last month, busting Rep. Mike Pence* (R-Obvs.) for misusing the same phrase.


==========
* (Yeah, that (http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2008/09/mike_pence_2.php) Mike (http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/01/mike_pences_ode_to_rush_limbaugh.php) Pence (http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/06/mike-pences-dangerous-game.php). Bird of a feather with Sarah Palin.)

claymisher
07-14-2009, 01:45 PM
Palin simply walks away from her job . . .


. . . and is rewarded with space (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/13/AR2009071302852.html?hpid%3Dopinionsbox1&sub=AR) in that center of the liberal media, the Washington Post.

Pathetic.

I suspect she'll be just like Gingrich and Bill Bennett -- losers who are tv all the time. Well, maybe not. I don't think she likes to talk outside of her area of expertise. Maybe she'll just fade away.

uncle ebeneezer
07-14-2009, 03:03 PM
Another good post:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-07-12/palins-final-insult/?cid=bsa:mostpopular1

bjkeefe
07-14-2009, 03:24 PM
It's nice to see that Palin probably actually wrote this herself, I guess.

Your Wonkette (http://wonkette.com/409832/409832) does not agree (http://wonkette.com/409843/sarah-palin-found-some-list-of-famous-quotes).

bjkeefe
07-14-2009, 03:29 PM
Another good post:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-07-12/palins-final-insult/?cid=bsa:mostpopular1

Heh. Even I would call that one gratuitous.

uncle ebeneezer
07-14-2009, 03:50 PM
I thought the best point was about her refusing the stimulus $ that the state probably needs, and then quickly bailing on the state. It's hard to square that with "what's best for Alaska."

bjkeefe
07-14-2009, 03:56 PM
I thought the best point was about her refusing the stimulus $ that the state probably needs, and then quickly bailing on the state. It's hard to square that with "what's best for Alaska."

Yes, that part is a legitimate criticism. I was reacting to MB's hysteria over the cost of convening the state legislature for a special session and the obvious way he went quote-hunting to beef that up. This seemed especially whacked in light of the above idea that he also wrote about, since for a "cost" of $200K (even if you don't think this is a canard), the state would be able to get its hands on 29 million bucks half a year sooner.

This "cost" of convening the legislature part is right out of the McCain "$3 million to study grizzly bears!!!1!" Playbook of Populist Nonsense, that's all I was saying. With the myriad of legitimate things to criticize about Palin, it's unnecessary and even stupid to harp about things like this.

nikkibong
07-14-2009, 07:43 PM
I suspect she'll be just like Gingrich and Bill Bennett -- losers who are tv all the time. Well, maybe not. I don't think she likes to talk outside of her area of expertise.

So then we can only expect to see her hawking cosmetics and hair products on the home shopping network?

bjkeefe
07-14-2009, 08:35 PM
Your Wonkette (http://wonkette.com/409832/409832) does not agree (http://wonkette.com/409843/sarah-palin-found-some-list-of-famous-quotes).

However, Chait (http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2009/07/14/sarah-palin-has-an-op-ed-today.aspx) does:

The op-ed was clearly written by Palin herself. It has that 9th grade, five paragraph essay style along with random bits of right-wing jargon sprinkled throughout in appropriate contexts. It is best read if you imagine that some of the lines were written to be delivered with winks ...

Chait also touches on the forest which I didn't note last night when joking about the trees: the entire essay really says nothing about dealing with global warming, unless you think the best mitigating step is keeping fossil fuels as cheap as possible and burning more of them. In other words, drill baby drill, also. [Added: Crowley (http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/default.aspx?PageIndex=1) reads it the same way.]

Hat tip to DougJ (http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=24093), whose post is worth a look for another reason, too: it never hurts to be reminded just how much of a Villager Marc Ambinder really is.

AemJeff
07-14-2009, 10:00 PM
So then we can only expect to see her hawking cosmetics and hair products on the home shopping network?

Heh. How much do want to bet she she has an agent negotiating a deal with Fox for a daily hour called Sarah!? And don't think CNN isn't pondering whether to tender a counteroffer. Or, maybe she'll get an Op-Ed slot at the WP - ergh.

claymisher
07-14-2009, 11:05 PM
Chait also touches on the forest which I didn't note last night when joking about the trees: the entire essay really says nothing about dealing with global warming, unless you think the best mitigating step is keeping fossil fuels as cheap as possible and burning more of them. In other words, drill baby drill, also

Did you see this?
Ezra Klein writes, regarding Sarah Palin's cap-and-trade op-ed in today's Washington Post, that its failure to mention "global warming" or "climate change" makes it "a bit like an op-ed that attacks firefighters for pointing pressurized water cannon(s) at everything but never mentions fires." I'm not absolutely sure the analogy is fair, but this did sound like an op-ed I would really like to read. So I took some key passages from Palin's piece and converted them:

I am deeply concerned about the continued use by firefighters nationwide of pressurized water cannons, and I believe it is an enormous threat to our economy. It would undermine our recovery over the short term and would inflict permanent damage.

American prosperity has always been driven by the steady supply of dry, habitable dwellings. Particularly in Alaska, we understand the inherent link between dry shelter and prosperity, dry shelter and opportunity, and dry shelter and security. Consequently, many of us in this huge if dry-shelter-poor state recognize that the continued pointing of high-pressure water cannons at commercial and residential structures would adversely affect every aspect of the U.S. economy.

There is no denying that as the world becomes more industrialized, we need to reform our shelter policy and become less dependent on non-waterproof buildings. But the answer doesn't lie in making buildings wetter! Those who understand the issue know we can meet our dry-shelter needs and environmental challenges without destroying America's economy.

I find this strangely convincing. Somebody needs to rein in those crazy firefighters!


http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2009/07/14/sarah-palin-takes-on-the-water-cannon-threat/

bjkeefe
07-14-2009, 11:21 PM
Did you see this?

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2009/07/14/sarah-palin-takes-on-the-water-cannon-threat/

LOL!

That's the beauty of word salad -- the ingredients are so interchangeable.

bjkeefe
07-15-2009, 12:39 AM
... as Honest John McCain (http://thepage.time.com/2008/09/11/mccain-palin-the-country%E2%80%99s-top-energy-expert/) assured us, she is the nation's top energy expert ...

Which would of course explain why it's perfectly reasonable for her to have been for cap and trade before she was against it (http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2009/07/i-guess-she-had-her-fingers-crossed.html).

kezboard
07-15-2009, 03:15 AM
The most depressing thing about this is that we'll still have to talk about her and I'll still have to think about her. Please, Sarah, please. I have no ill will towards you and even less towards Trig. Just please, if you want what's best for the country, go away. Please God, make her go away. Nothing good can come of any more Sarah Palin in the national consciousness.

kezboard
07-15-2009, 03:17 AM
I'm with Paglia though, I love seeing the status quo squirm.

Me too. I'm a chronic shit-disturber. It's just that I would rather not have this squirming benefit the even more obnoxious and pernicious and ultimately useless status quo that Palin represents.

kezboard
07-15-2009, 03:23 AM
That's exactly where I was going on the Paglia and aesthetic preferences. Also, and I meant to point this out, there's a smallish but very much existent species of feminist who was really insulted by Bill Clinton's antics. I guess they saw him as selling out the Democratic party on women's concerns, and everyone who was irritated by the shitshow the Clinton impeachment became as disregarding the issues of sexual harassment and abuse of power by men, and they ultimately concluded that the Democrats didn't give a damn about women or feminism since they ended up on the side of male power as embodied by Clinton. I think Althouse and Paglia both represent this sort of tendency.

I don't really know how I feel about this. I can totally agree that Clinton was a super cad and abused his power, but I was in junior high when he was impeached, so I never really experienced those feelings, and I'm not even a little interested in refighting the battles of the 90s.

pampl
07-15-2009, 09:56 AM
The most depressing thing about this is that we'll still have to talk about her and I'll still have to think about her. Please, Sarah, please. I have no ill will towards you and even less towards Trig. Just please, if you want what's best for the country, go away. Please God, make her go away. Nothing good can come of any more Sarah Palin in the national consciousness.

I dunno, I think she's doing a good job driving home the point that even a '[wo]man of the people' needs to crack open a book once in a while. She's not making that point to her base, of course, but her base shrinks every crazy stunt she pulls

SkepticDoc
07-15-2009, 08:54 PM
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/climate-change/moveon-fundraising-email-invoking-sarah-palins-lies-brings-in-100000-in-one-day/

SkepticDoc
07-17-2009, 03:53 PM
http://mediumlarge.wordpress.com/sarah-palin-vlogs-new/

bjkeefe
07-27-2009, 02:30 PM
Sarah Palin's farewell speech (http://wonkette.com/410093/sarah-palins-last-words). At long last.

What a manipulative, mean-spirited, lying, self-serving shell of a human being. Good riddance to bad trash.

uncle ebeneezer
07-27-2009, 02:37 PM
Not only did you post to the story I was gonna post, but you even used the same title. Great minds, indeed...

I wish I could believe that this is the last we'll see of her, but I doubt it.

bjkeefe
07-27-2009, 02:38 PM
Sarah Palin's farewell speech (http://wonkette.com/410093/sarah-palins-last-words). At long last.

Transcript here (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/akmuckraker/sarah-palins-farewell-add_b_245215.html), if you'd rather.

[Added] Rather not feel like a student being talked at in a second-grade class, I mean.

bjkeefe
07-27-2009, 02:45 PM
Not only did you post to the story I was gonna post, but you even used the same title. Great minds, indeed...

Heh.

I wish I could believe that this is the last we'll see of her, but I doubt it.

Probably you're right, but at least she's out of office and she'll have to get voted back in. Plus, I expect that not feeling constrained by being in office will lead to even more comedy gold in her future public speaking engagements.

In the meantime, here is a picture that makes fun of Trig!!!1! (http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/26/sarah-palin-on-to-a-higher-calling/)

claymisher
07-27-2009, 02:48 PM
Heh.



Probably you're right, but at least she's out of office and she'll have to get voted back in. Plus, I expect that not feeling constrained by being in office will lead to even more comedy gold in her future public speaking engagements.

In the meantime, here is a picture that makes fun of Trig!!!1! (http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/26/sarah-palin-on-to-a-higher-calling/)

She's been saying that when she gets out of office she's really gonna lay the truth on us. I can't wait.

uncle ebeneezer
07-27-2009, 02:49 PM
I feel bad for the military who are losing their biggest groupie.

Lyle
07-27-2009, 03:24 PM
Progressive bigotry at its best. Shameful.

bjkeefe
07-27-2009, 03:44 PM
Progressive bigotry at its best. Shameful.

So, you think it's "bigoted" to be repulsed by an individual, do you?

Whatevs. I mean, it's not like I previously thought you had enough sense to spell cat even if spotted the C and the A ...

Happy to see that you feel no compunction about attaching a group label to your own statement, though.

bjkeefe
07-27-2009, 04:44 PM
Sarah Palin's farewell speech (http://wonkette.com/410093/sarah-palins-last-words). At long last.

Some reviews from the comments section at the above link:

Keram2 (http://wonkette.com/410093/sarah-palins-last-words#comment-371160):

If this woman wrapped herself with the flag any tighter, she’d cut off the circulation to her tiny, tiny brain.

queeraselvis v 2.0 (http://wonkette.com/410093/sarah-palins-last-words#comment-371195):

Ye gods, that speech is like a Mobius strip of stupid.

SayItWithWookies (http://wonkette.com/410093/sarah-palins-last-words#comment-371170):

Watching Sarah Palin use the English language is like watching a toddler play the piano — the kid enjoys making noise, and everyone else just hopes that someday he’ll either start doing it right or get bored and stop. I gave up after “In honor of the American soldier, could you stop making stuff up?” From the woman who’s protected us from Russia for the past two-and-a-half years, that’s just precious.

user-of-owls (http://wonkette.com/410093/sarah-palins-last-words#comment-371162), responding to a request for a synopsis:

“A large vat of narcissism, heavily laced with equal measures of vitriol and brain damage with a dollop of pandering to finish.”

S.Luggo (http://wonkette.com/410093/sarah-palins-last-words#comment-371209):

Hitler has the sadz, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IzNPEGWNos

Lyle
07-27-2009, 04:53 PM
Yes, you are bigoted against her. The fact that you're repulsed by your fellow citizen is itself repulsive. Hating people for their politics is vile.

AemJeff
07-27-2009, 05:08 PM
Yes, you are bigoted against her. The fact that you're repulsed by your fellow citizen is it self repulsive. Hating people for their politics is vile.

You know, using a dictionary once in while could really help improve your debating skills.

bjkeefe
07-28-2009, 02:39 AM
Yes, you are bigoted against her. The fact that you're repulsed by your fellow citizen is itself repulsive. Hating people for their politics is vile.

Let's remember, crush-boy, that this ostensible "fellow citizen" of mine has spent most of her time in the national spotlight inveighing against pretty much everything I stand for, up to and including calling people like just me "not Real Americans."

That's just one of the many righteous reasons for being repulsed by her. Sorry to mess up your starbursts (http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/site/comments/rich_lowrys_little_starbursts/).

TwinSwords
07-28-2009, 03:00 AM
Progressive bigotry at its best. Shameful.

Conservative victimology at its best. Whiney.

You know what's shameful, Compulsive Lial? It's shameful that Sarah Palin would use our troops as human shields, as a proxy for herself, as in "if you disagree with my fundamentalist and conservative extremism, you really oppose the American soldier."

Palin To Media: Honor Our Troops -- Stop Making Things Up About Me
In her farewell address yesterday, former Gov. Sarah Palin (R-AK) gave this memorable statement about the media -- essentially declaring that her critics don't respect our troops. "Democracy depends on you. That is why our troops are willing to die for you," said Palin. "So how about in honor of the American soldier, ya' quit makin' things up?"

(source (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/palin-to-media-honor-our-troops-stop-making-things-up-about-me.php))

TwinSwords
07-28-2009, 03:06 AM
Not only did you post to the story I was gonna post, but you even used the same title. Great minds, indeed...

I wish I could believe that this is the last we'll see of her, but I doubt it.

If I had to bet right now, I'd say we're looking at a better than 50% chance that either Palin or Rick Perry (Texas governor) will be the next president. With the media now in open defiance of Obama, and moderate swing voters absolutely terrified of Obama's plan to nationalize the entire economy and turn the United States into a socialist hellhole, chances for 2012 don't look good.

bjkeefe
07-28-2009, 03:12 AM
She's been saying that when she gets out of office she's really gonna lay the truth on us. I can't wait.

You want truth? Here it is (http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/27/open-thread-the-juneau-maverick-officially-dry-docked/):

http://www.themudflats.net/wp-content/uploads/maverick-3.jpg

And here it is (http://www.themudflats.net/2009/07/26/so-long-sarah-anchorage-bids-farewell-to-the-governor/) (second picture from bottom):

http://www.themudflats.net/wp-content/uploads/picnic24.jpg

TwinSwords
07-28-2009, 08:34 AM
Good times: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSu3BVO0Lg0

Lyle
07-28-2009, 05:28 PM
Great, but do you need to call the woman a witch? Can't you just say you disagree with her?

bjkeefe
07-28-2009, 08:18 PM
Great, but do you need to call the woman a witch? Can't you just say you disagree with her?

Oh, lighten up, Francis, and accept that some pop culture allusions are de facto standard parts of the discourse and are not meant to be taken literally.

And no, I don't really think your name is Francis. That was another pop culture allusion. See what I did there? I used the same technique to illustrate my point.

Reading is HARD, isn't it?

And no, I am not going to say I just disagree with Sarah Palin. I am first going to laugh at a smug insensitive conservative like you suddenly being so concerned about Politically Correct speech. Then I am going to say that I do not think "just disagree" is accurate. I loathe the mindset that Sarah Palin represents, the way she plays on the dumbest and most distasteful sub-currents in our population, and I think she deserves nothing but as much contempt as I can muster. She is not honest enough, intelligent enough, or honorable enough to merit mere disagreement.

bjkeefe
07-28-2009, 08:22 PM
If I had to bet right now, I'd say we're looking at a better than 50% chance that either Palin or Rick Perry (Texas governor) will be the next president. With the media now in open defiance of Obama, and moderate swing voters absolutely terrified of Obama's plan to nationalize the entire economy and turn the United States into a socialist hellhole, chances for 2012 don't look good.

I'll take that bet.

Lyle
07-28-2009, 08:37 PM
Who you fooling bj? You know you're mean. We see it everyday from you. Mean and bitter, that's just the dude your are.

You're the kind of liberal Obama loves to hate.

bjkeefe
07-28-2009, 08:43 PM
Who you fooling bj? You know you're mean. We see it everyday from you.

Please be aware that everyday (one word) is a synonym for commonplace. What you want here is every day (two words), meaning either what it literally says or suggesting, metaphorically/hyperbolically, regularly and frequently.

This is a pet peeve of mine, and no further discussion will be entertained until the proper apologies have been delivered.

bjkeefe
07-28-2009, 08:46 PM
Good times: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSu3BVO0Lg0

Alternately hilarious and impatience-inducing, I thought. Maybe I'm too familiar with the original clips?

But thanks for the link, anyway. That's a good compendium to have handy for future reference.

bjkeefe
07-28-2009, 08:51 PM
Conservative victimology at its best. Whiney.

You know what's shameful, Compulsive Lial? It's shameful that Sarah Palin would use our troops as human shields, as a proxy for herself, as in "if you disagree with my fundamentalist and conservative extremism, you really oppose the American soldier."



(source (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/palin-to-media-honor-our-troops-stop-making-things-up-about-me.php))

Indeed.

I liked what Hooray For Anything (http://wonkette.com/410093/sarah-palins-last-words#comment-371314) had to say in reaction to this shameless grotesquery from Palin:

I personally love the line about the troops and will use it personally from here on out. Like:

“So, how about, in honor of the American soldier, you go out with me?”

Or

“So, how about, in honor of the American soldier, you hire me?”

Or

“So, how about, in honor of the American soldier, you quit calling me to pay my credit card bill?”

Lyle
07-28-2009, 09:09 PM
I could care less about my grammar, your grammar, or anyone's grammar. I don't respond to peoples' pet peeves on it or whatever they have to say on it. I simply don't care and could care less if it annoys you.

TwinSwords
07-28-2009, 09:13 PM
Hey, Lyle, can I ask you a question? What do you like about Sarah Palin? Would you like to see her elected president, and if so, why?

bjkeefe
07-28-2009, 09:37 PM
I could care less about my grammar, your grammar, or anyone's grammar. I don't respond to peoples' pet peeves on it or whatever they have to say on it. I simply don't care and could care less if it annoys you.

Protest too much much?

TwinSwords
07-28-2009, 10:01 PM
Indeed.

I liked what Hooray For Anything (http://wonkette.com/410093/sarah-palins-last-words#comment-371314) had to say in reaction to this shameless grotesquery from Palin:

You would think that the troops would resent being used by Republicans in this way, wouldn't you? I've always been amazed that more people don't speak out against the constant Republican attempts to manipulate our military personnel. It's so transparent what Palin is doing by constantly invoking the military. People talk about fascism, but this is really one of the dangerous elements of fascism: a political movement that places the military at its center. That's what Republicans have been doing for decades. When you read conservative / Republican blogs and watch conservatives on YouTube, it's fairly common for them to make direct appeals to the military to overthrow the Obama administration, or somehow participate in an armed rebellion. They hate all vestiges of government, save for the military, which they worship.

Lyle
07-28-2009, 10:01 PM
I'm on record as having said she's not really Presidential material.

I do like her frontier brand of conservatism (more socially liberal and libertarian). The fact the she is a woman who has made it on her own in politics is admirable too.

bjkeefe
07-28-2009, 10:46 PM
You would think that the troops would resent being used by Republicans in this way, wouldn't you?

Sort of, but not really. I think lots of people who join the military have spent most of their lives being reminded that "the Democrats hate the military," "the liberals spit on the troops," etc.

And let's not forget that in combat zones, noise like Rush is piped in over Armed Forces Radio constantly, while nothing in the way of a competing voice is allowed. I don't know what the status is at the moment, but for a while there, AFR in Iraq wouldn't even carry NPR (Nice Polite Republicans).

While some do wake up to the fact that they're being used as a cheap symbol by chickenhawks, and empty suits like Palin, I think lots of them either never become aware, or think "at least they're sort of standing up for us, and more than that other party," or whatever.

bjkeefe
07-29-2009, 12:39 AM
The headline:

Sarah Palin Shopping Around Talk Radio Show (http://wonkette.com/410155/sarah-palin-shopping-around-talk-radio-show)

See follow-up post (http://wonkette.com/410156/410156). Also.

uncle ebeneezer
07-29-2009, 02:05 AM
I hear she's also considering poetry!! (http://www.hulu.com/watch/85839/the-tonight-show-with-conan-obrien-shatner-does-palin)

bjkeefe
07-29-2009, 02:05 AM
Sarah Palin's farewell speech (http://wonkette.com/410093/sarah-palins-last-words). At long last.

Alex Pareene (http://gawker.com/5324026/sarah-palins-gradual-descent-into-incoherency) (via (http://wonkette.com/410131/410131)) on the Final Lap of the Iquitarod:

It's like Peggy Noonan, Jack London, and William Faulkner wandered into the woods with three buttons of peyote and one typewriter, and only this speech emerged.

And she wrote this speech! In advance, on paper! What does any of it mean? It is amazing. Twenty years ago she could competently descibe a dog race, three years ago she could articulate a position on the abortion issue, and this weekend she composed a resignation speech by throwing culture war stock phrases into a hat and dumping it upside down on a copy of The Paranoid Style in American Politics.

bjkeefe
07-29-2009, 02:17 AM
I hear she's also considering poetry!! (http://www.hulu.com/watch/85839/the-tonight-show-with-conan-obrien-shatner-does-palin)

Hey, great find! I saw this mentioned on a few blogs today, but they all pointed to a YouTube version of it, which NBC's jackbooted thugs had ordered taken down. Gotta remember to check Hulu next time.

uncle ebeneezer
07-29-2009, 02:30 AM
Yeah it was kindof a wild goose chase tracking it down. Gotta love Hulu. I just realized they have a ton of Nova episodes so i'll be busy for awhile!!

Like this one on EOWilson (http://www.hulu.com/watch/63732/nova-lord-of-the-ants)

stephanie
07-29-2009, 03:48 PM
I do like her frontier brand of conservatism (more socially liberal and libertarian). The fact the she is a woman who has made it on her own in politics is admirable too.

I don't think that's an accurate description of her.

I also don't think she is going to matter much, going forward.

claymisher
08-01-2009, 05:15 PM
I hope this isn't true. It's too sad:

Splitsville for 'Cuda and the First Dude

Real America, patriotic America values.

AlaskaReport has learned this morning that Todd Palin and former Alaska governor Sarah Palin are to divorce. Multiple sources in Wasilla and Anchorage have confirmed the news.


http://instaputz.blogspot.com/2009/08/splitsville-for-cuda-and-first-dude.html

TwinSwords
08-01-2009, 05:18 PM
I hope this isn't true. It's too sad:

http://instaputz.blogspot.com/2009/08/splitsville-for-cuda-and-first-dude.html

Wow! Big news! If true! I would guess this explains her resignation, if it's true.

pampl
08-01-2009, 05:25 PM
I hope this isn't true. It's too sad:

http://instaputz.blogspot.com/2009/08/splitsville-for-cuda-and-first-dude.html

No way. I won't buy it until I see Palin herself attacking him as a member of the liberal media.

Palin did just cancel what would be her first public appearance since she went crazy/resigned. I'm not sure if that means she's planning something big or she's imploding
http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2009/jul/31/palin-not-coming-to-reagan-library/

TwinSwords
08-01-2009, 05:34 PM
No way. I won't buy it until I see Palin herself attacking him as a member of the liberal media.
ROFL.


Palin did just cancel what would be her first public appearance since she went crazy/resigned.
Crazier. She's been crazy all along. ;-)


I'm not sure if that means she's planning something big or she's imploding
When Bush Sr. was defeated in 1992, I remember mourning the departure of Dan Quayle from the national stage. That guy played a real public service, a kind of National Village Idiot, a constant source of entertainment. He kept America laughing. What a service! I often thought we should have offered him some kind of permanent position in government just so he could continue performing his valuable public service to the nation.

I feel the same about Palin. I have enjoyed more belly laughs at her expense in the last year than I can count. It would be a national tragedy if retreated to private life.

SkepticDoc
08-01-2009, 05:36 PM
For what it is worth:

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2009/08/exclusive-sarah-and-todd-palin-are.html

bjkeefe
08-01-2009, 06:11 PM
I hope this isn't true. It's too sad:

http://instaputz.blogspot.com/2009/08/splitsville-for-cuda-and-first-dude.html

Number one on Google Trends (http://www.google.com/trends/hottrends?q=sarah+palin+divorce&date=2009-8-1&sa=X), at this moment.

Pretty amazing, given it all traces to two blog posts.

SkepticDoc
08-02-2009, 05:29 PM
They are going to serve court papers in the Kindergarten...

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/

more specifically:

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2009/08/was-it-somethng-i-said.html

bjkeefe
08-02-2009, 06:42 PM
They are going to serve court papers in the Kindergarten...

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/

more specifically:

http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2009/08/was-it-somethng-i-said.html

Sarah Palin and/or her attorney apparently still have yet to grasp the concept of "public figure," I guess. Or maybe ... why does Sarah Palin hate free speech, and by extension, The Troops?

SkepticDoc
08-02-2009, 06:53 PM
We don't have to worry about getting a call from the GOP. Right..?

bjkeefe
08-02-2009, 07:12 PM
We don't have to worry about getting a call from the GOP. Right..?

Actually, we might get a call, but it'll turn out to be bluster -- empty threats -- if past performance by Palin's attorney (http://alaskareport.com/news39/x71284_flien.htm) is any indication:

This is now the fourth threat on behalf of Sarah Palin, including one to AlaskaReport.com, that Van Flein has made to bloggers in Alaska in the past few weeks. None of which he has carried out.

I am trying to decide whether antics like this indicate that Palin really is as bad at making staff selections as it seems on the surface, or if this is all part of a mindset that says any publicity is good publicity. Still gotta make that book deal (http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2009/07/03/harpercollins-to-go-forward-with-palin-memoir/) work, right? And besides, even though Clear Channel said (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedishrag/sarah-palin-talk-show/), "Thanks but no thanks," I have to believe she's still looking (http://wonkette.com/410155/sarah-palin-shopping-around-talk-radio-show) to land a sweet, sweet talk show gig.