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claymisher
05-21-2009, 01:56 PM
Anybody else catch it? I just read the transcript. Sound like he was in his "grow up, people" mode.

I know some have argued that brutal methods like water-boarding were necessary to keep us safe. I could not disagree more. As Commander-in-Chief, I see the intelligence, I bear responsibility for keeping this country safe, and I reject the assertion that these are the most effective means of interrogation.

Instead of strategically applying our power and our principles, we too often set those principles aside as luxuries that we could no longer afford. And in this season of fear, too many of us - Democrats and Republicans; politicians, journalists and citizens - fell silent.

Some have derided our federal courts as incapable of handling the trials of terrorists. They are wrong.

As our efforts to close Guantanamo move forward, I know that the politics in Congress will be difficult. These issues are fodder for 30-second commercials and direct mail pieces that are designed to frighten. I get it. But if we continue to make decisions from within a climate of fear, we will make more mistakes.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/05/obamas-national-security-speech.php?ref=fpblg

JonIrenicus
05-21-2009, 06:28 PM
I find the gitmo situation interesting because that whole responsibility issue is falling on democrats.

We will never hear from most of them that maybe guantanamo is the best among non ideal options. What should be done? create a clone in another location called another name?

Just release people for not having air tight proof?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/us/politics/21gitmo.html?bl&ex=1243051200&en=5e6557f1159edce7&ei=5087%0A


ah reality, it catches up to us all. Not so easy to bash its existence now is it?

graz
05-21-2009, 06:35 PM
ah reality, it catches up to us all.

Apparently it has yet to catch you. If you listened to or read both speeches today, your point that it now falls on democrats is mere fiction. Vintage Jon - if you say it, it must be so - if only in your mind.

By the way, Byron York just got schooled and confirmed as a tool on The Newshour regarding this subject.

Lyle
05-21-2009, 07:34 PM
Apparently it has yet to catch you. If you listened to or read both speeches today, your point that it now falls on democrats is mere fiction. Vintage Jon - if you say it, it must be so - if only in your mind.

By the way, Byron York just got schooled and confirmed as a tool on The Newshour regarding this subject.

What is this an argument for?

graz
05-21-2009, 08:22 PM
What is this an argument for?...

...The futility of making Guantanamo a democratic/republican issue only. It is a national problem. Jon is right that it is complex. But as there are now solutions offered and the rationale for resolution rather than continued festering has been presented. Disagree on the merits, just don't fudge the issue. So it it either disingenuous or indicative of a failure to read or understand the original subject at hand (namely- the speech).

Jon:What should be done? The President took the time to spell it out. The least he could do is read it. But, as you are no stranger to obtuse... excuse me... we are now calling it contrarianism, you should get this.

Byron York is a sometime blogginghead. A tool nonetheless.

Lyle
05-21-2009, 08:50 PM
...The futility of making Guantanamo a democratic/republican issue only. It is a national problem. Jon is right that it is complex. But as there are now solutions offered and the rationale for resolution rather than continued festering has been presented. Disagree on the merits, just don't fudge the issue. So it it either disingenuous or indicative of a failure to read or understand the original subject at hand (namely- the speech).


President Obama hasn't provided a resolution to Gitmo yet. He just says he's going to close it. He has yet to explain where he's going to move the detainees and how they will be handled in U.S. courts if they're brought into the United States. It's clear he still hasn't made a decision about what to do.

JonIrenicus
05-21-2009, 09:01 PM
...The futility of making Guantanamo a democratic/republican issue only. It is a national problem. Jon is right that it is complex. But as there are now solutions offered and the rationale for resolution rather than continued festering has been presented. Disagree on the merits, just don't fudge the issue. So it it either disingenuous or indicative of a failure to read or understand the original subject at hand (namely- the speech).

Jon: The President took the time to spell it out. The least he could do is read it. But, as you are no stranger to obtuse... excuse me... we are now calling it contrarianism, you should get this.

Byron York is a sometime blogginghead. A tool nonetheless.


Not responsibility in the sense that only democrats are responsible for what happens with Guantanamo, just pointing out that recently they are being more vocal about the concerns surrounding the closing of Guantanamo than they had been when Bush was in Office and many simply brought it up as another anchor around his neck.

btw, I prefer this. If being in power tempers the liberal annoyances then that is a good thing. Even Bill Maher is far more at ease now compared to when Bush was at the reigns.

Lyle
05-21-2009, 09:09 PM
btw, I prefer this. If being in power tempers the liberal annoyances then that is a good thing. Even Bill Maher is far more at ease now compared to when Bush was at the reigns.

I agree. Obama is being allowed some breathing space, which seems politically healthy to me. The criticism he's getting from the likes of Cheney is genteel and honest. Very healthy day in American politics today.