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View Full Version : Is it always a bad thing for some people to hate us?


JonIrenicus
04-03-2009, 02:48 AM
Old video, but I thought it summed up my thoughts pretty well


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6376855398629423702&q=hitchens&total=1548&start=0&num=100&so=1&type=search&plindex=2


relevant portion starts a bit after 59:30


The video is very long, and very interesting in its entirety, but the riff I am talking about begins about 59:30 with a question from a member of the audience. I found this utterly refreshing to be expressed. I feel the same way, it bothers me that so many will throw out the old apologists line that it is we that stir the mayhem the world over, it is our "meddling" that causes the anger and resentment and attacks...

The main point is this, Just because people hate us for certain actions, does NOT mean those actions are wrong by default.

bjkeefe
04-03-2009, 10:52 AM
Old video, but I thought it summed up my thoughts pretty well


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6376855398629423702&q=hitchens&total=1548&start=0&num=100&so=1&type=search&plindex=2


relevant portion starts a bit after 59:30


The video is very long, and very interesting in its entirety, but the riff I am talking about begins about 59:30 with a question from a member of the audience. I found this utterly refreshing to be expressed. I feel the same way, it bothers me that so many will throw out the old apologists line that it is we that stir the mayhem the world over, it is our "meddling" that causes the anger and resentment and attacks...

The main point is this, Just because people hate us for certain actions, does NOT mean those actions are wrong by default.

I haven't watched this yet, but I will. Thanks for the link. I'm always up for some Hitch.

To your own words I'll say that I think you're raising a bit of a straw man. Very few Americans believe the US is always to blame, and to the extent that you sometimes hear some people sound like they're saying this, it's because way too many Americans more or less have the attitude that the US does no wrong. We are not always on the side of the angels and we do any number of objectively wrong things, and it sometimes seems as though the only way to shock these people out of their comfort zones is to adopt a provocatively rigid stance.

Further, even in the cases where we do what we think is right, or exercise the least bad option, or act in a way that seems unfortunately necessary, it's also important to think long and hard about how others see what we do, no matter how much we might think their perspectives are wrong. Again, too many of us fail to make this effort.

Finally, there are all too many people who reject out of hand any discussion that the US might not be without flaw, or that others may see us differently -- rightly or wrongly, no matter -- and instantly leap to calling those of us who would like to be more honest about our warts by calling us "America-haters." You have only to skim the archives on this site to see some of the asinine things said about Bob Wright's worldview, or more usually, distortions of it, to see examples of what I'm talking about.

Lyle
04-05-2009, 10:05 PM
I agree completely.