PDA

View Full Version : The Never-Ending Primary


Bloggingheads
03-25-2008, 09:22 AM

beren
03-25-2008, 10:17 AM
This Divlog is like a bad date. Uncomfortable silences and just the feeling of two people with little to say to each other.

DenvilleSteve
03-25-2008, 10:38 AM
yeah, well, whatever.

maybe this is the logical end point of the focus on process instead of substance. Where the pundit cant summon up the energy to express a thought.

In the real world the red state military continues to fight and die to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons in the world. The people of Taiwan surrender to their overlords on the mainland. New York State politics descends further into dysfunction and cynicism. Is that the pattern the federal government will follow?

There is a lot more going on the the world, but in the spirit of this BH episode, I will pretend to not care and be bored by it all.

-Steve

bjkeefe
03-25-2008, 11:10 AM
And speaking of boring, we have, once again:

blah blah blah blah blah ... the red state military ... blah blah blah blah blah


Looks like another one for the list (http://bloggingheads.tv/forum/showpost.php?p=71974&postcount=10).

brucds
03-25-2008, 11:13 AM
Garance has a tendency to prove in these diavlogs the Woody Allen maxim that 80% of success is showing up.

bjkeefe
03-25-2008, 11:13 AM
beren:

This Divlog is like a bad date. Uncomfortable silences ...

I agree. Most notably, when Ramesh was asked about McCain's al Qaeda gaffe.

thouartgob
03-25-2008, 11:56 AM
With Cheney's Rasputin like effect on the P, the VP may take on a new level of importance. So who McCain chooses as his running mate may just be they key to his campaign. He is the CiC half of the presidency so he needs to find his conservative CFO type ( Romney tongue must worn through by now licking McCain's boots ) to complete the picture. He might not be Ronny but he may just find someone to "complete" him.

Obama has slowly put more and more weight on the Clinton campaign back in order to break it without hitting to hard at any one time ( recent memos from the Obama campaign question Hillary's sore spot, people don't seem to believe her ). More weight might need to be thrown on however. If Pennsylvania is close and perceived as a win for Obama then Hillary might just be toast in the Super D's minds.

DenvilleSteve
03-25-2008, 12:14 PM
Ann Althouse has some smart things to say on her blog today re: Hillary and Obama.

http://althouse.blogspot.com/

likely the Hillary end game is not to be VP, but to weaken the Obama presidency enough so she can knock him off in 2012.

I am thinking there might be a parallel between the Chinese warlord era and what is soon to be in America. Where the center, being the governor of NY or the president of the country is weak, and real power is held by those who control the factions. A key component of this analogy is the factions deliberately ignore the outside world to focus their energies on intramural fights and maneuvering.

TwinSwords
03-25-2008, 12:19 PM
Hahaha. Nice list. Hey, he wouldn't be a conservative if he had an original thought. He just wants to make sure we understand his limits.

bjkeefe
03-25-2008, 01:05 PM
Ann Althouse has some smart things to say on her blog today re: Hillary and Obama.

likely the Hillary end game is not to be VP, but to weaken the Obama presidency enough so she can knock him off in 2012.

Hardly an original thought (http://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+2012).

Joel_Cairo
03-25-2008, 03:36 PM
Agh. Why does GFR always seem so damn bored?? I like her a lot, and she often has good contributions, but something about her affect is extremely off-putting to me. Does she have some place more important to be?

ogieogie
03-25-2008, 04:23 PM
I have become--I don't know why, at all--a Garance fan. It's not that I agree with her, particularly--just that I always seem to want to know what she thinks.

I agree that she has a bored-seeming affect. I don't, however, dislike it. It's actually kind of cool. She has a kinda snooty, quasi-adolescent way of expressing herself, underneath which lurk real smarts. I dunno.

I wish she wounldn't mumble, though, since here I am, hanging on her every word.

Of her interlocutor it is best I say nothing at all.

Give her someone with a bit of spark to diavlog with next time, says I.

Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
03-25-2008, 04:42 PM
The bored affect and the awkward pauses are a well discussed aspect of Ms. Franke-Ruta's bhtv persona. Mr.Alterman (whom I really miss although he bothered me sometimes) was the king of the I have something more important to be doing than this attitude but he took passionate, clear and emphatic positions which were fun to engage with...I can't exactly say the same for Ms. Franke-Ruta most of the time.

This diavlog wasn't the best of all time, but it certainly was better than the early comments led me to believe.

http://abunooralirlandee.wordpress.com

bjkeefe
03-25-2008, 04:44 PM
ogie:

For the record, I don't agree with you and Joel. I don't understand why people think GFR is anything special. She has the occasional interesting thought, but mostly, she strikes me as fairly mundane in her observations. At least, when the topic is the horse race.

She certainly doesn't help herself with her habit of ending her sentences with that habit of trailing off into nothingness. It makes her sound unsure of herself and uninterested in the conversation. No, worse. It makes her sound as though she's dying of ennui. Do you really find that appealing?

bjkeefe
03-25-2008, 04:47 PM
Abu Noor:

Mr.Alterman (whom I really miss although he bothered me sometimes) was the king of the I have something more important to be doing than this attitude ...

I miss him, too, but I disagree that he presents as bored. Excessive amounts of world-weariness and cynicism, maybe, and not a small amount of superiority at times, but I never got "bored" as an attitude.

rubbernecking
03-25-2008, 05:03 PM
Yup, it was a bad date. Nobody's to blame. All you can do is end it as soon as possible (which they did), go home, fold clothes, maybe read new Slate stories, and watch some cable.

In the end it was a hell of a metacommentary on the primary, except for the ending as soon as possible part.

graz
03-25-2008, 05:35 PM
Quote Brendan:
"No, worse. It makes her sound as though she's dying of ennui. Do you really find that appealing?"

That's funny, Bob ought to send her an oxygen kit along with the bhtv hook-up. I share the sense that there isn't much there there. Which isn't to say that she isn't a valued human being, loved by her mother, blog readers etc...
The video aspect of this site creates Q ratings that don't mesh with the objective value offered.
Sure, desire and taste are personal, but some of these diavlogs offer empty calories at best.

Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
03-25-2008, 06:13 PM
Brendan,

You're right that bored is not the right word. Mr. Alterman had more of an arrogant "I've got something more important to do" vibe than a bored "I've got something more important to do" vibe.

But, like I said, I liked him and it was part of his appeal, as a diavlogger at least. As a human being, I don't know him, so maybe it was just a performance on his part. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
03-25-2008, 06:20 PM
I think one of the areas where Ms. Franke-Ruta has interesting things to say (at least to me, maybe because I don't spend that much time in discussion about these issues) is about feminism and gender issues. She did refer to that briefly here when she misunderstood the direction Mr. Ponnurru was going with the conversation, but it went away from that pretty quickly.

I (again as a person who hasn't spent a lot of time with feminism and gender issues) tend to agree with the commentary I've seen that feminists becoming the champions of HRC against Obama would be a disaster for feminism (and the country) but I'm interested to hear the case (to the extent there is one) of intelligent feminists who think HRC is getting a raw deal or who want to explain to me the ways in which there hasn't been as much progress in this country on gender as on race (GFR:there won't be a Betty Friedan Day).

http://abunooralirlandee.wordpress.com

Incompetence Dodger
03-25-2008, 08:36 PM
The video aspect of this site creates Q ratings that don't mesh with the objective value offered.

Circumlocution of the day!

Maybe it's just because they've appeared on successive days, but I think a diavlog between Garance and Kerry Howley on feminism would be fantastic (both in content and, ahem, Q ratings).

graz
03-25-2008, 08:55 PM
Circumlocution of the day!

Maybe it's just because they've appeared on successive days, but I think a diavlog between Garance and Kerry Howley on feminism would be fantastic (both in content and, ahem, Q ratings).

Guilty as charged, but maybe I don't understand the meaning of Q ratings.
I think of it along the lines of appealing to some for reasons not easily appreciated by others.

bjkeefe
03-26-2008, 03:48 AM
Abu Noor:

I'm interested to hear the case (to the extent there is one) of intelligent feminists who think HRC is getting a raw deal ...

Please, no. HRC is not a good focal point for such a conversation. You'd never be able to separate sexism from the myriad of other reasons to dislike her; e.g., political stances (or lack thereof), scorched earth campaign tactics, and the reality that she just doesn't come of as a likable human being on camera or the big stage. None of these have anything to do with her gender, but anyone who wanted to argue that sexism was at play would be unable to accept that.

Actually, now that I think about it, Rachel Sklar had quite a bit to say about this issue, in her first appearance, IIRC.

donroberto
03-26-2008, 04:01 PM
One example of the "bad date" feel to this diavlog was Ramesh's point that it would be hard to imagine Hillary being able to rise to an occasion where she would have to make a great, eloquent speech in response to an unexpected crisis. GFR then proceeds to deal with the question of Hillary making a speech on sexism. The fact that this scenario popped into her head as a possible equivalence to Obama's race speech was a bit silly to the point of parody.

Actually, the speech Hillary really needed to deliver sometime early in her campaign, was to explain in depth her vote for the Iraq war resolution - most preferably to admit what a huge blunder it was and how she has since learned not to put personal political calculation ahead of America's best interests and the lives of those serving in the military.

bjkeefe
03-26-2008, 06:10 PM
donroberto:

Actually, the speech Hillary really needed to deliver sometime early in her campaign, was to explain in depth her vote for the Iraq war resolution ...

Excellent thought. Had she not been "inevitable" at the beginning, maybe it could have happened. Probably would also have required a much more unified antiwar feeling among the Democratic Party base, too.

And, yeah, a complete personality transplant for the Senator. As far as I can recall, she doesn't ever apologize. She weasels. The closest I've ever heard her come was in her attempts to pitch her poor handling of health care reform in the early '90s along the lines of "I have experience because I've learned from that time."

uncle ebeneezer
03-26-2008, 07:15 PM
Put any straight male in a room with GFR and KH and I would bet they would have a pretty tough time denying the appeal of feminism!